fishmike wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:https://stathead.com/tiny/2lwzr

If you take a closer look at advance stats and factor in that Kobe only played like 16 minutes a game his rookie season, then I'd say this a pipedream. While RJ has made incremental improvements over the course of his career, Kobe SKYROCKETED during his four year spurt. No need for straw man arguments. Why not make a more reasonable RJ comparison, like Caris LeVert? I'm rooting for RJ, but he projects a ceiling of being a solid wing if you look at it objectively. Nothing wrong with that, but definitely not an untouchable.
Caris LeVert comparison: https://stathead.com/tiny/flXGu

its retarded.. and they are nothing alike. Kobe's ascension was stardom. RJ looks like a good NBA bucket better and rotation guy. LeVert is more realistic but hopefully as healthy version.

RJ is 23 soon... the hope is just he can be better BB player. Smarter plays, less TOs and better shots. Basically just be a better player

Phucking Kobe.. this is him reading this post
https://imgur.com/a/gD1VYmc

So a far comparison is a 19-22 year old RJ to a 22-25 year old Lavert?

they are similar players in terms of stats and impact... more impact. Comparing RJ/Kobe is.... well it's Friday so I'll be nice.

RJ has been the same player for the last 3 years. Literally what's he better at since his sophomore/rookie season? (and I like him)

First off I agree he is nothing like Kobe.

Second question...his 3 point shooting is better. Defense is worse. I think he is more comfortable in the clutch and isn't a horrible passer. This season alone within the past month or so he has been dunking to finish, but his finishing around the basket needs major work.

why do you say his 3 point shooting is better? He was 40% his 2nd year. Its been 34% the following two years. That's not good or a good sign. His FG% is better at the rim. That's the only real plus I am seeing these days. His EFG% and TS% are just not very good. Looks like the hot stretch to finish his 2nd year was outlier because we havent seen that kind of shooting since.

Wiggins is 100% the guy if you wan to compare. Seemingly good stats, but isnt much of an impact player. God I hope I am wrong with RJ. He's young and works hard and plays hard. He's a good guy but I'm just calling it like I see it which is he's not showing the growth that says he's taking it to the next level. I mean Randle/Brunson have shown more improvements in their games this year than RJ has.

Remember when he came into the league and the big question was can he shoot the 3?

He has become semi dependable as a spot up 3 pt shooter. He makes 3's in the clutch also. I am aware he is an inefficient scorer but I think that goes away if he finishes better. The guys has show the ability to put up 25 5 and 5 a night for extended periods of time. I am not saying he's Kobe but minimizing his potential and his accomplishments thus far is not looking at facts.

NYKMentality wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:The advanced stats are just brutal to RJ in this comparison, 24 to 8 winshares, 8.7 to .3 VORP. Everyone loves the hometown kid but let's not spoil him.

He also had SHAQ in his prime as the most DOMINANT BIG MAN of All-Time.

NYLM, I don't think anyone has a distaste for your enthusiasm but over selling brings out the debate in some.
You might think Shaq is the most dominant, which is fine. But if your agenda is to boast RJ, and nothing wrong with that btw, but.......
One might debate Shaq is not even the most dominant Laker of all time. That might be Kareem.
Wilts best days were in philly. Statistically he Wilt was so far off the charts one can prove his statisticaly means were beyond any norm. Avg'd 50 pts a game one season.
Lead the league in scoring AND rebounding 5 years. We can go on.
Shaq was the most dominant in his era is a good analogy.
Kobe, like many needed a Shaq, or a Pau in prime to win chips.
We all would love RJ to exceed Kobe in every way imaginable. Over selling it won't make it any more a reality. Your just going to invite debate.
But im rooting for yah!!!!

joec32033 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:https://stathead.com/tiny/2lwzr

If you take a closer look at advance stats and factor in that Kobe only played like 16 minutes a game his rookie season, then I'd say this a pipedream. While RJ has made incremental improvements over the course of his career, Kobe SKYROCKETED during his four year spurt. No need for straw man arguments. Why not make a more reasonable RJ comparison, like Caris LeVert? I'm rooting for RJ, but he projects a ceiling of being a solid wing if you look at it objectively. Nothing wrong with that, but definitely not an untouchable.
Caris LeVert comparison: https://stathead.com/tiny/flXGu

its retarded.. and they are nothing alike. Kobe's ascension was stardom. RJ looks like a good NBA bucket better and rotation guy. LeVert is more realistic but hopefully as healthy version.

RJ is 23 soon... the hope is just he can be better BB player. Smarter plays, less TOs and better shots. Basically just be a better player

Phucking Kobe.. this is him reading this post
https://imgur.com/a/gD1VYmc

So a far comparison is a 19-22 year old RJ to a 22-25 year old Lavert?

they are similar players in terms of stats and impact... more impact. Comparing RJ/Kobe is.... well it's Friday so I'll be nice.

RJ has been the same player for the last 3 years. Literally what's he better at since his sophomore/rookie season? (and I like him)

First off I agree he is nothing like Kobe.

Second question...his 3 point shooting is better. Defense is worse. I think he is more comfortable in the clutch and isn't a horrible passer. This season alone within the past month or so he has been dunking to finish, but his finishing around the basket needs major work.

why do you say his 3 point shooting is better? He was 40% his 2nd year. Its been 34% the following two years. That's not good or a good sign. His FG% is better at the rim. That's the only real plus I am seeing these days. His EFG% and TS% are just not very good. Looks like the hot stretch to finish his 2nd year was outlier because we havent seen that kind of shooting since.

Wiggins is 100% the guy if you wan to compare. Seemingly good stats, but isnt much of an impact player. God I hope I am wrong with RJ. He's young and works hard and plays hard. He's a good guy but I'm just calling it like I see it which is he's not showing the growth that says he's taking it to the next level. I mean Randle/Brunson have shown more improvements in their games this year than RJ has.

Remember when he came into the league and the big question was can he shoot the 3?

He has become semi dependable as a spot up 3 pt shooter. He makes 3's in the clutch also. I am aware he is an inefficient scorer but I think that goes away if he finishes better. The guys has show the ability to put up 25 5 and 5 a night for extended periods of time. I am not saying he's Kobe but minimizing his potential and his accomplishments thus far is not looking at facts.

He gets minutes and treatment because of his draft status and potential but that is going to be tested very soon.

The bottom line is how long do you stick with a player who's below league averages in all EFG% numbers and is not a plus defender? 23? 25?

Next RJ's 23, 24, 25, 26 years old and he's making 23/25/27/29mm in those next 4 years.

I dont want to lose my fan card... when is it OK to start saying this guy might not be very good?

fishmike wrote:Corey Maggette (another Dookie) is the guy RJ actually reminds me the most of.

Maggette, nicknamed Bad Porn because he could go hard to the hole, but had trouble finishing.

fishmike wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

fishmike wrote:Corey Maggette (another Dookie) is the guy RJ actually reminds me the most of.

Maggette, nicknamed Bad Porn because he could go hard to the hole, but had trouble finishing.

i dont remember that one but it's amazing and 100% our guy... RJ "Call sign Bad Porn" Barrett reporting to assignment. SIR!

My bad. The origin of the name: Legends say that “Bad Porn” moniker came from irate Golden State Warriors fans who justified it by saying, “Sure, there’s penetration and scoring, but are you really happy with what you’re seeing?”

NYKMentality wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:The advanced stats are just brutal to RJ in this comparison, 24 to 8 winshares, 8.7 to .3 VORP. Everyone loves the hometown kid but let's not spoil him.

He also had SHAQ in his prime as the most DOMINANT BIG MAN of All-Time.

Yeah it’s not like Kobe didn’t win a championship without Shaq. Zach Wilson lol

fishmike wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:https://stathead.com/tiny/2lwzr

If you take a closer look at advance stats and factor in that Kobe only played like 16 minutes a game his rookie season, then I'd say this a pipedream. While RJ has made incremental improvements over the course of his career, Kobe SKYROCKETED during his four year spurt. No need for straw man arguments. Why not make a more reasonable RJ comparison, like Caris LeVert? I'm rooting for RJ, but he projects a ceiling of being a solid wing if you look at it objectively. Nothing wrong with that, but definitely not an untouchable.
Caris LeVert comparison: https://stathead.com/tiny/flXGu

its retarded.. and they are nothing alike. Kobe's ascension was stardom. RJ looks like a good NBA bucket better and rotation guy. LeVert is more realistic but hopefully as healthy version.

RJ is 23 soon... the hope is just he can be better BB player. Smarter plays, less TOs and better shots. Basically just be a better player

Phucking Kobe.. this is him reading this post
https://imgur.com/a/gD1VYmc

So a far comparison is a 19-22 year old RJ to a 22-25 year old Lavert?

they are similar players in terms of stats and impact... more impact. Comparing RJ/Kobe is.... well it's Friday so I'll be nice.

RJ has been the same player for the last 3 years. Literally what's he better at since his sophomore/rookie season? (and I like him)

First off I agree he is nothing like Kobe.

Second question...his 3 point shooting is better. Defense is worse. I think he is more comfortable in the clutch and isn't a horrible passer. This season alone within the past month or so he has been dunking to finish, but his finishing around the basket needs major work.

why do you say his 3 point shooting is better? He was 40% his 2nd year. Its been 34% the following two years. That's not good or a good sign. His FG% is better at the rim. That's the only real plus I am seeing these days. His EFG% and TS% are just not very good. Looks like the hot stretch to finish his 2nd year was outlier because we havent seen that kind of shooting since.

Wiggins is 100% the guy if you wan to compare. Seemingly good stats, but isnt much of an impact player. God I hope I am wrong with RJ. He's young and works hard and plays hard. He's a good guy but I'm just calling it like I see it which is he's not showing the growth that says he's taking it to the next level. I mean Randle/Brunson have shown more improvements in their games this year than RJ has.

Remember when he came into the league and the big question was can he shoot the 3?

He has become semi dependable as a spot up 3 pt shooter. He makes 3's in the clutch also. I am aware he is an inefficient scorer but I think that goes away if he finishes better. The guys has show the ability to put up 25 5 and 5 a night for extended periods of time. I am not saying he's Kobe but minimizing his potential and his accomplishments thus far is not looking at facts.

the bold is just emotional stuff. The problem is RJ has been very much the same player in the league for 4 years now. Even the one year he shot the 3 very well he was overall well below league average in basic EFG%

He gets minutes and treatment because of his draft status and potential but that is going to be tested very soon.

The bottom line is how long do you stick with a player who's below league averages in all EFG% numbers and is not a plus defender? 23? 25?

Next RJ's 23, 24, 25, 26 years old and he's making 23/25/27/29mm in those next 4 years.

I dont want to lose my fan card... when is it OK to start saying this guy might not be very good?

I can literally say the same about your opinion being emotional. The kid is averaging 20 5 and 3 on 43% shooting 109th in the league (Quickly is literally 108th by .2 percentage points-but all I hear about IQ is how great he is)

His efg% is within .005% of Scottie Barnes. .006% of LaMelo. Better than Fred Van Vleet. Better than Trae Young. He is ranked a 116 efg% put of 450 total players in the NBA. Basketball reference is only listing the top 132 when sorting efg%.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2023_per_game.html

Yes he isn't a great shooter. But in some cases, alot of the Barrett conversation is about the grass always being greener. That's not emotional. It is what it is. If RJ was on any other team he would be compared to guys like Jordan Clarkson or Kyle Kuzma currently. But he is on the Knicks, so he sucks

joec32033 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:https://stathead.com/tiny/2lwzr

If you take a closer look at advance stats and factor in that Kobe only played like 16 minutes a game his rookie season, then I'd say this a pipedream. While RJ has made incremental improvements over the course of his career, Kobe SKYROCKETED during his four year spurt. No need for straw man arguments. Why not make a more reasonable RJ comparison, like Caris LeVert? I'm rooting for RJ, but he projects a ceiling of being a solid wing if you look at it objectively. Nothing wrong with that, but definitely not an untouchable.
Caris LeVert comparison: https://stathead.com/tiny/flXGu

its retarded.. and they are nothing alike. Kobe's ascension was stardom. RJ looks like a good NBA bucket better and rotation guy. LeVert is more realistic but hopefully as healthy version.

RJ is 23 soon... the hope is just he can be better BB player. Smarter plays, less TOs and better shots. Basically just be a better player

Phucking Kobe.. this is him reading this post
https://imgur.com/a/gD1VYmc

So a far comparison is a 19-22 year old RJ to a 22-25 year old Lavert?

they are similar players in terms of stats and impact... more impact. Comparing RJ/Kobe is.... well it's Friday so I'll be nice.

RJ has been the same player for the last 3 years. Literally what's he better at since his sophomore/rookie season? (and I like him)

First off I agree he is nothing like Kobe.

Second question...his 3 point shooting is better. Defense is worse. I think he is more comfortable in the clutch and isn't a horrible passer. This season alone within the past month or so he has been dunking to finish, but his finishing around the basket needs major work.

why do you say his 3 point shooting is better? He was 40% his 2nd year. Its been 34% the following two years. That's not good or a good sign. His FG% is better at the rim. That's the only real plus I am seeing these days. His EFG% and TS% are just not very good. Looks like the hot stretch to finish his 2nd year was outlier because we havent seen that kind of shooting since.

Wiggins is 100% the guy if you wan to compare. Seemingly good stats, but isnt much of an impact player. God I hope I am wrong with RJ. He's young and works hard and plays hard. He's a good guy but I'm just calling it like I see it which is he's not showing the growth that says he's taking it to the next level. I mean Randle/Brunson have shown more improvements in their games this year than RJ has.

Remember when he came into the league and the big question was can he shoot the 3?

He has become semi dependable as a spot up 3 pt shooter. He makes 3's in the clutch also. I am aware he is an inefficient scorer but I think that goes away if he finishes better. The guys has show the ability to put up 25 5 and 5 a night for extended periods of time. I am not saying he's Kobe but minimizing his potential and his accomplishments thus far is not looking at facts.

the bold is just emotional stuff. The problem is RJ has been very much the same player in the league for 4 years now. Even the one year he shot the 3 very well he was overall well below league average in basic EFG%

He gets minutes and treatment because of his draft status and potential but that is going to be tested very soon.

The bottom line is how long do you stick with a player who's below league averages in all EFG% numbers and is not a plus defender? 23? 25?

Next RJ's 23, 24, 25, 26 years old and he's making 23/25/27/29mm in those next 4 years.

I dont want to lose my fan card... when is it OK to start saying this guy might not be very good?

I can literally say the same about your opinion being emotional. The kid is averaging 20 5 and 3 on 43% shooting 109th in the league (Quickly is literally 108th by .2 percentage points-but all I hear about IQ is how great he is)

His efg% is within .005% of Scottie Barnes. .006% of LaMelo. Better than Fred Van Vleet. Better than Trae Young. He is ranked a 116 efg% put of 450 total players in the NBA. Basketball reference is only listing the top 132 when sorting efg%.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2023_per_game.html

Yes he isn't a great shooter. But in some cases, alot of the Barrett conversation is about the grass always being greener. That's not emotional. It is what it is. If RJ was on any other team he would be compared to guys like Jordan Clarkson or Kyle Kuzma currently. But he is on the Knicks, so he sucks

I said it was a matter of time before he got benched and he sat last night.

Its not emotion, its basketball. RJ has not been very good. That is clearly really upsetting for people.

Let me rephrase... I am SOOOO (honestly) sorry RJ kinda sucks. I wish we picked 2nd in that draft but we are always one pick behind. The question is do we do something about it or just hang and hope? I am honestly curious. How long are you comfortable watching him play like this? Its a fair question man... 1 more year? 3 more?

martin wrote:

fishmike wrote:what am I being emotional about? Trae and FVV... you picked two guys having career lows in that stat. So you are backing up my point. Are FVV and Trae guys you want to build around? They are having their worst seasons and now RJ is on a par with them. On a side note FVV is a plus defender, and Trae gets you 10 dimes a game. What does RJ do to balance his poor shooting numbers?

I said it was a matter of time before he got benched and he sat last night.

Its not emotion, its basketball. RJ has not been very good. That is clearly really upsetting for people.

Let me rephrase... I am SOOOO (honestly) sorry RJ kinda sucks. I wish we picked 2nd in that draft but we are always one pick behind. The question is do we do something about it or just hang and hope? I am honestly curious. How long are you comfortable watching him play like this? Its a fair question man... 1 more year? 3 more?

the one thing I'll add: How long will it take RJ to get to be a better than average shooter. And not just for like a month after taking 2-3 months to warm up for the season?

IMHO RJ's defense will never be better than average, he just doesn't have the foot speed or BBallIQ.

I think he still has value as a player to an organization but he has a long way to go before he becomes average where it counts. You can get away with a volume shooter in specific roles. RJ and Knicks will have to figure out what that role is.

He's a nice bucket getter. He's a bulldozer the rim. He plays really hard and he's a good guy/teammate.

I would love to be patient and let it "work out" except we havent seen enough from RJ that says he's gonna take another step. We just havent. If there's a sell now for anyone on this team IMO its RJ right now

martin wrote:

fishmike wrote:what am I being emotional about? Trae and FVV... you picked two guys having career lows in that stat. So you are backing up my point. Are FVV and Trae guys you want to build around? They are having their worst seasons and now RJ is on a par with them. On a side note FVV is a plus defender, and Trae gets you 10 dimes a game. What does RJ do to balance his poor shooting numbers?

I said it was a matter of time before he got benched and he sat last night.

Its not emotion, its basketball. RJ has not been very good. That is clearly really upsetting for people.

Let me rephrase... I am SOOOO (honestly) sorry RJ kinda sucks. I wish we picked 2nd in that draft but we are always one pick behind. The question is do we do something about it or just hang and hope? I am honestly curious. How long are you comfortable watching him play like this? Its a fair question man... 1 more year? 3 more?

the one thing I'll add: How long will it take RJ to get to be a better than average shooter. And not just for like a month after taking 2-3 months to warm up for the season?

IMHO RJ's defense will never be better than average, he just doesn't have the foot speed or BBallIQ.

I think he still has value as a player to an organization but he has a long way to go before he becomes average where it counts. You can get away with a volume shooter in specific roles. RJ and Knicks will have to figure out what that role is.

I don't want to type it again, everything I posted to fishmike applies here too.