fishmike wrote:

blkexec wrote:Fish and Hofstra, before I can entertain this discussion....

Please provide a definition of a starting PF on a playoff team?

Also, who said any of our starters are starters on a playoff team?

answer your own questions.. you dont need us for the above

Happy Thanksgiving Fish

HofstraBBall wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Panos wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Panos wrote:

Panos wrote:Man Up!
24/11/6/2
Still the best player on this team.

Last night:
34 (on 52%)/11/4/4

This is the best time to trade him, but knicks will not do that. Randle is married into the family, just like Brunson. Plus this FO is not savy enough with their trades. But they are great with adding value from the draft.

But I said this before. We are stuck with Randle. If he plays well, fans and the FO will say ok, this is the Randle we expected, lets keep him.

If he plays bad, fans will be calling for his head and asking to trade him. But the FO will not trade him at his lowest value.

So basically Randle is untradeable, unless theirs an offer the FO can't refuse, otherwise he's here to stay. Fournier on the other hand.....

So, let me get this straight. Here's the scenario in your mind:
Randle has a good game.
Leon: "Brock, quick get on the phones and inquire about dumping Randle at a high!
Rick, Make yourself useful! Go sprinkle fairy dust on the other GMs to make them forget last week!!!"

Its more like....

Randle has a good game.
Leon: "This is why I didn't trade him. We need him if we are going to make any noise during the playoffs"

Basically the window to trade Randle was during the Obi draft. Otherwise what was the point in drafting Obi? vs drafting a PG (instead of Obi) to help Randle like Brunson is doing now?

Either way, after his performance yesterday and with JBs positive impact on Randle, along with his "whisperer" Randle is here to stay. Also, the most important factor that Thibs is finally playing Obi and Randle together in meaningful minutes, is huge.

The main reason for me to trade Randle was to free up Obi. But if Thibs is willing to play them together, then I back down on trading Randle.

I'm also liking Thibs rotation lately (he's better when there's a tight 9 man rotation). Plus that allows the players to have consisent rotations and minutes now, without losing their momentum sitting too long on the bench.

This is starting to look like that playoff push we had. I think Thibs has found his rotation. Ther problem now is fitting Grimes and Mitchell into this rotation. Thats going to be the challenge that could break the camels back. Until then, enjoy this 2 game west coast win. back to back wins was HUGE.

The reason most want to trade Randle.

What is the problem with that thought? Hmmm Knick fans are so predictable and forgetful.

Reference: Frank, Knox, Baker, Iggy, Dotson, Shump, Fields, Thanasis, Chandler, Lee. (Guys Knick fans thought could be more than what they were)

It's why so many play the lottery. Think they can win one despite the odds and reality.

Real question;
What makes you think Obi can be a playoff team's starting PF?

Here's a handful of starting PF's in the playoffs last year:

Chicago: Patrick Williams
Minnesota: Jared Vanderbilt
Denver: Aaron Gordon
Dallas: Finney-Smith
Utah: O'Neal

Does this look like a list of allstar pf's to you? Obi can absolutely start for a playoff team and excel playing his game as long as there is an allstar level playmaker in the starting lineup with him.

blkexec wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Panos wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Panos wrote:

Panos wrote:Man Up!
24/11/6/2
Still the best player on this team.

Last night:
34 (on 52%)/11/4/4

This is the best time to trade him, but knicks will not do that. Randle is married into the family, just like Brunson. Plus this FO is not savy enough with their trades. But they are great with adding value from the draft.

But I said this before. We are stuck with Randle. If he plays well, fans and the FO will say ok, this is the Randle we expected, lets keep him.

If he plays bad, fans will be calling for his head and asking to trade him. But the FO will not trade him at his lowest value.

So basically Randle is untradeable, unless theirs an offer the FO can't refuse, otherwise he's here to stay. Fournier on the other hand.....

So, let me get this straight. Here's the scenario in your mind:
Randle has a good game.
Leon: "Brock, quick get on the phones and inquire about dumping Randle at a high!
Rick, Make yourself useful! Go sprinkle fairy dust on the other GMs to make them forget last week!!!"

Its more like....

Randle has a good game.
Leon: "This is why I didn't trade him. We need him if we are going to make any noise during the playoffs"

Basically the window to trade Randle was during the Obi draft. Otherwise what was the point in drafting Obi? vs drafting a PG (instead of Obi) to help Randle like Brunson is doing now?

Either way, after his performance yesterday and with JBs positive impact on Randle, along with his "whisperer" Randle is here to stay. Also, the most important factor that Thibs is finally playing Obi and Randle together in meaningful minutes, is huge.

The main reason for me to trade Randle was to free up Obi. But if Thibs is willing to play them together, then I back down on trading Randle.

I'm also liking Thibs rotation lately (he's better when there's a tight 9 man rotation). Plus that allows the players to have consisent rotations and minutes now, without losing their momentum sitting too long on the bench.

This is starting to look like that playoff push we had. I think Thibs has found his rotation. Ther problem now is fitting Grimes and Mitchell into this rotation. Thats going to be the challenge that could break the camels back. Until then, enjoy this 2 game west coast win. back to back wins was HUGE.

The reason most want to trade Randle.

What is the problem with that thought? Hmmm Knick fans are so predictable and forgetful.

Reference: Frank, Knox, Baker, Iggy, Dotson, Shump, Fields, Thanasis, Chandler, Lee. (Guys Knick fans thought could be more than what they were)

It's why so many play the lottery. Think they can win one despite the odds and reality.

Real question;
What makes you think Obi can be a playoff team's starting PF?

Then why draft him?

Also how are you suppose to know anything if he’s not given significant playing time. If he doesn’t pan out ship him. Not sure I understand the issue here.

Either your for this FO and u agree with giving a top 8 pick minimal minutes.

Or you agree the Obi pick was a wasted pick.

Not clear where you stand so it’s difficult to converse. But I know one thing. You can’t tell anything about a player from the bench. And Thibs is finding ways to play him. But Randle, Rose and Fournier are blockers. That’s why u see EF is out which opened up more mins for others. That’s all me and majority of people across multiple platforms are saying.

Good question. Especially when we needed a PG. Although BPA is a common tactic. He was that. I do not think he was a wasted pick. In retrospect Haliburton would have been a better pick. But that is like saying I should have only bought Apple Stock 20 years ago. Feel he will be an important part of a playoff teams second unit. Brings energy and can change the tempo of the game single handedly. Also like the confidence he has shown this year. Just do not think he will be an All Star starting PF some day. Randle, when right, is right now.

Significant playing time? Think he is getting closer to an ideal 20 minutes. Which is what most players trying to prove themselves get.
But you should be able to tell what he has in just 5 minutes. Which is what he was in college as well. Which is high energy and athletic but not much else. Problem is most of his offense comes from leaving the defensive end in order to get out in transition. Which is a problem for a PF. He has yet to show any signs of a post up game. None. Problem for a PF. He has yet to show any type of consistent ability to create off the dribble. His 3pt shot mechanics look like that of a middle school kid learning how to shoot with one hand. He has yet to show any mid range game. Catch and shoot? Has any of this changed in two years? Other than he is hitting more of those three point shots? Reason why I asked what makes YOU think things will change to make him a starting PF? Always asked this of Frank fans and other hopeful fans.

Blockers? Think the issue you may have is that you are misaligned with where the FO wants this team to be. You are thinking this is a OKC team in which we are building all our young assets and seeing who is worth keeping. Like it or not the FO has put together a team they feel can compete in the playoffs. May agree with you that we are no where near but the FO is not as quick to judge as us pessimistic fans. EF was not removed to give a youngin a chance. He was removed because his offense and defense was not helping win games. Rose is not playing because IQ brings more to the table. Randle is not a blocker when he is our best player and gives Thibs the best chance to win.

blkexec wrote:

Uptown wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Panos wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Panos wrote:

Panos wrote:Man Up!
24/11/6/2
Still the best player on this team.

Last night:
34 (on 52%)/11/4/4

This is the best time to trade him, but knicks will not do that. Randle is married into the family, just like Brunson. Plus this FO is not savy enough with their trades. But they are great with adding value from the draft.

But I said this before. We are stuck with Randle. If he plays well, fans and the FO will say ok, this is the Randle we expected, lets keep him.

If he plays bad, fans will be calling for his head and asking to trade him. But the FO will not trade him at his lowest value.

So basically Randle is untradeable, unless theirs an offer the FO can't refuse, otherwise he's here to stay. Fournier on the other hand.....

So, let me get this straight. Here's the scenario in your mind:
Randle has a good game.
Leon: "Brock, quick get on the phones and inquire about dumping Randle at a high!
Rick, Make yourself useful! Go sprinkle fairy dust on the other GMs to make them forget last week!!!"

Its more like....

Randle has a good game.
Leon: "This is why I didn't trade him. We need him if we are going to make any noise during the playoffs"

Basically the window to trade Randle was during the Obi draft. Otherwise what was the point in drafting Obi? vs drafting a PG (instead of Obi) to help Randle like Brunson is doing now?

Either way, after his performance yesterday and with JBs positive impact on Randle, along with his "whisperer" Randle is here to stay. Also, the most important factor that Thibs is finally playing Obi and Randle together in meaningful minutes, is huge.

The main reason for me to trade Randle was to free up Obi. But if Thibs is willing to play them together, then I back down on trading Randle.

I'm also liking Thibs rotation lately (he's better when there's a tight 9 man rotation). Plus that allows the players to have consisent rotations and minutes now, without losing their momentum sitting too long on the bench.

This is starting to look like that playoff push we had. I think Thibs has found his rotation. Ther problem now is fitting Grimes and Mitchell into this rotation. Thats going to be the challenge that could break the camels back. Until then, enjoy this 2 game west coast win. back to back wins was HUGE.

The reason most want to trade Randle.

What is the problem with that thought? Hmmm Knick fans are so predictable and forgetful.

Reference: Frank, Knox, Baker, Iggy, Dotson, Shump, Fields, Thanasis, Chandler, Lee. (Guys Knick fans thought could be more than what they were)

It's why so many play the lottery. Think they can win one despite the odds and reality.

Real question;
What makes you think Obi can be a playoff team's starting PF?

Here's a handful of starting PF's in the playoffs last year:

Chicago: Patrick Williams
Minnesota: Jared Vanderbilt
Denver: Aaron Gordon
Dallas: Finney-Smith
Utah: O'Neal

Does this look like a list of allstar pf's to you? Obi can absolutely start for a playoff team and excel playing his game as long as there is an allstar level playmaker ine starting lineup with him.

Thank you Uptown for providing this list. But what does Patrick Williams or Jared Vanderbilt have to do with Obi? This is not at you Uptown, this is directed at the individual who asked this question. There is not definition of a starting PF on a playoff team. Each team has different chemistry and player abilities. It's all about which 5 players play well together. All 5 starters do not have to be All Stars or HOFs. In fact, sometimes an All Star player might be better off coming off the bench, for the benefit of the team. Thats why this question lost me. And Fish came out from left field to join in, then fade out.

I think anybody can be a starter on a playoff team at any position. So I'm probably the wrong person for this question. lol

If Thibs can successfully play Obi and Randle together, then this entire discussion is OBE.

I get it...My list was to provide context to that question. But, when talking about playoff teams, as long as you have an allstar, regardless of position, and maybe another player on the cusp, you can get into the second season. Obi is the ultimate complimentary player; he can stretch the floor, can finish on PNR (not sure why we dont utilize this more), he leads the secondary break and he is in constant motion. Also, more teams in each conference make the playoffs-play-in than the one that are left out so its not as difficult as it was in years past.

blkexec wrote:

fishmike wrote:

blkexec wrote:Fish and Hofstra, before I can entertain this discussion....

Please provide a definition of a starting PF on a playoff team?

Also, who said any of our starters are starters on a playoff team?

answer your own questions.. you dont need us for the above

Now thats how you jump in.....add nothing.....then jump out. I'm learning

He asked you for you more than RandleThibs bad Obi good... I was curious to hear your reply and dismayed when you ducked it. Ill get over it. Happy Thanksgiving to you as well

Uptown wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Uptown wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Panos wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Panos wrote:

Panos wrote:Man Up!
24/11/6/2
Still the best player on this team.

Last night:
34 (on 52%)/11/4/4

This is the best time to trade him, but knicks will not do that. Randle is married into the family, just like Brunson. Plus this FO is not savy enough with their trades. But they are great with adding value from the draft.

But I said this before. We are stuck with Randle. If he plays well, fans and the FO will say ok, this is the Randle we expected, lets keep him.

If he plays bad, fans will be calling for his head and asking to trade him. But the FO will not trade him at his lowest value.

So basically Randle is untradeable, unless theirs an offer the FO can't refuse, otherwise he's here to stay. Fournier on the other hand.....

So, let me get this straight. Here's the scenario in your mind:
Randle has a good game.
Leon: "Brock, quick get on the phones and inquire about dumping Randle at a high!
Rick, Make yourself useful! Go sprinkle fairy dust on the other GMs to make them forget last week!!!"

Its more like....

Randle has a good game.
Leon: "This is why I didn't trade him. We need him if we are going to make any noise during the playoffs"

Basically the window to trade Randle was during the Obi draft. Otherwise what was the point in drafting Obi? vs drafting a PG (instead of Obi) to help Randle like Brunson is doing now?

Either way, after his performance yesterday and with JBs positive impact on Randle, along with his "whisperer" Randle is here to stay. Also, the most important factor that Thibs is finally playing Obi and Randle together in meaningful minutes, is huge.

The main reason for me to trade Randle was to free up Obi. But if Thibs is willing to play them together, then I back down on trading Randle.

I'm also liking Thibs rotation lately (he's better when there's a tight 9 man rotation). Plus that allows the players to have consisent rotations and minutes now, without losing their momentum sitting too long on the bench.

This is starting to look like that playoff push we had. I think Thibs has found his rotation. Ther problem now is fitting Grimes and Mitchell into this rotation. Thats going to be the challenge that could break the camels back. Until then, enjoy this 2 game west coast win. back to back wins was HUGE.

The reason most want to trade Randle.

What is the problem with that thought? Hmmm Knick fans are so predictable and forgetful.

Reference: Frank, Knox, Baker, Iggy, Dotson, Shump, Fields, Thanasis, Chandler, Lee. (Guys Knick fans thought could be more than what they were)

It's why so many play the lottery. Think they can win one despite the odds and reality.

Real question;
What makes you think Obi can be a playoff team's starting PF?

Here's a handful of starting PF's in the playoffs last year:

Chicago: Patrick Williams
Minnesota: Jared Vanderbilt
Denver: Aaron Gordon
Dallas: Finney-Smith
Utah: O'Neal

Does this look like a list of allstar pf's to you? Obi can absolutely start for a playoff team and excel playing his game as long as there is an allstar level playmaker in the starting lineup with him.

Did I say All Stars? So he will excel with an All Star PG? Who wouldn't? Point was that there are many that would help more than he would. Including ones you mentioned.

Patrick Williams is a hell of a defender. He has more impact than Obi because of it.
Vanderbilt was a fill in and shared minutes with Mcdaniels and Prince who averaged a higher 34.7 MPG at PF in that series.
Gordon- Better than Obi with more proven track record.
Finney-Smith- Much better than Obi with more proven track record.
O'neal- Bogdanovic was starting PF. O'neal, who was their defensive anchor started at SF.

Fyi, most of teams above lost in first round except for the one with a top 5 player.

The problem I have is that Obi supporters can't see that everything they claim is unproven. Am I hoping he proves them right? Absolutely. Just managing expectations and do not think we should be making roster moves on hopeful thinking.

Asking if Obi can be a starting PF on a playoff team in a vacuum makes little sense because it lacks context. Who are the other 4 starters? You said it yourself, who wouldn't excel playing alongside an allstar pg or playmaker? If a team has an allstar caliber playmaker and the right complimentary pieces that fit, of course that team can make the playoffs. Obi is a complimentary piece at this point in his career and his game can fit beside more elite players because he can shoot the 3, he moves the ball and moves off the ball.

Swap out Finney-Smith and for Obi and all of a sudden Luka and the Mavs aint making the playoffs? The Mavs were making the playoffs when Finney-Smith was a bench player, and continued to make the playoffs when he moved in the starting lineup. And his track record was created playing alongside an alltime great.

Not sure why you felt the need to add that some of those teams didn't advance deep into the playoffs when that wasn't your initial point...

FYI, coming out of college, Patrick Williams scouting report said that he was an elite defender....Not gonna pretend that I watch a lot of Bulls games but according to Stats Muse his defensive ratings are as follows:

Patrick Williams
This year: 111
Last year: 114 ( he only played 17 games)

Obi
This year: 113
Last year: 110

Maybe too many tangents.
Think our original topic was Obi's ability, right now, to be more productive, as a starter, on a Playoff team over many other options. .
Not if he would screw up a team with really good/All Star players.
You can say that of ANY rotational player.
My point is that he has YET proven that he would be a better option over current playoff caliber PFs. Including the ones you mentioned. And definitely not so when compared to some of the better ones. Including Randle. My question is what has he done to make some feel he has proven he can?
Not sure why saying he has not and hoping he does makes me less of a fan?

fishmike wrote:

blkexec wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Panos wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Panos wrote:

Panos wrote:Man Up!
24/11/6/2
Still the best player on this team.

Last night:
34 (on 52%)/11/4/4

This is the best time to trade him, but knicks will not do that. Randle is married into the family, just like Brunson. Plus this FO is not savy enough with their trades. But they are great with adding value from the draft.

But I said this before. We are stuck with Randle. If he plays well, fans and the FO will say ok, this is the Randle we expected, lets keep him.

If he plays bad, fans will be calling for his head and asking to trade him. But the FO will not trade him at his lowest value.

So basically Randle is untradeable, unless theirs an offer the FO can't refuse, otherwise he's here to stay. Fournier on the other hand.....

So, let me get this straight. Here's the scenario in your mind:
Randle has a good game.
Leon: "Brock, quick get on the phones and inquire about dumping Randle at a high!
Rick, Make yourself useful! Go sprinkle fairy dust on the other GMs to make them forget last week!!!"

Its more like....

Randle has a good game.
Leon: "This is why I didn't trade him. We need him if we are going to make any noise during the playoffs"

Basically the window to trade Randle was during the Obi draft. Otherwise what was the point in drafting Obi? vs drafting a PG (instead of Obi) to help Randle like Brunson is doing now?

Either way, after his performance yesterday and with JBs positive impact on Randle, along with his "whisperer" Randle is here to stay. Also, the most important factor that Thibs is finally playing Obi and Randle together in meaningful minutes, is huge.

The main reason for me to trade Randle was to free up Obi. But if Thibs is willing to play them together, then I back down on trading Randle.

I'm also liking Thibs rotation lately (he's better when there's a tight 9 man rotation). Plus that allows the players to have consisent rotations and minutes now, without losing their momentum sitting too long on the bench.

This is starting to look like that playoff push we had. I think Thibs has found his rotation. Ther problem now is fitting Grimes and Mitchell into this rotation. Thats going to be the challenge that could break the camels back. Until then, enjoy this 2 game west coast win. back to back wins was HUGE.

The reason most want to trade Randle.

What is the problem with that thought? Hmmm Knick fans are so predictable and forgetful.

Reference: Frank, Knox, Baker, Iggy, Dotson, Shump, Fields, Thanasis, Chandler, Lee. (Guys Knick fans thought could be more than what they were)

It's why so many play the lottery. Think they can win one despite the odds and reality.

Real question;
What makes you think Obi can be a playoff team's starting PF?

Then why draft him?

Also how are you suppose to know anything if he’s not given significant playing time. If he doesn’t pan out ship him. Not sure I understand the issue here.

Either your for this FO and u agree with giving a top 8 pick minimal minutes.

Or you agree the Obi pick was a wasted pick.

Not clear where you stand so it’s difficult to converse. But I know one thing. You can’t tell anything about a player from the bench. And Thibs is finding ways to play him. But Randle, Rose and Fournier are blockers. That’s why u see EF is out which opened up more mins for others. That’s all me and majority of people across multiple platforms are saying.

You didnt answer his question. In fact you literally said the coach should play an inferior player because of the asset attached to him. Then you get mad at the coach...

What makes you think Obi can be a playoff team's starting PF?

What makes you think he can’t?

gradyandrew wrote:This is ridiculous. Just rewatched the Denver game. Knicks are getting blown out in the first, then Randle starts making 3's and it's called close game. In the fourth, Knicks are again in danger of getting blown out and Randle gets 3 steals that lead directly to points and wins the game. Has Obi ever been able to put the team on his back and carry them to a win? I mean in a non summer league/ non end of season game? Absolute ridiculous we are even talking about this. Y'all need to get off the stats pages and watch the games.

Should have dumped his deal after the Denver game

BigDaddyG wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:This is ridiculous. Just rewatched the Denver game. Knicks are getting blown out in the first, then Randle starts making 3's and it's called close game. In the fourth, Knicks are again in danger of getting blown out and Randle gets 3 steals that lead directly to points and wins the game. Has Obi ever been able to put the team on his back and carry them to a win? I mean in a non summer league/ non end of season game? Absolute ridiculous we are even talking about this. Y'all need to get off the stats pages and watch the games.

Should have dumped his deal after the Denver game

Yeah, makes it seem like that's an every game occurrence from Julius. Obi? When was the last time you saw Julius have a two-way performance like that? At least Obi has the built in excuse of not having a lot of minutes.

That is one of the baddest back-handed bitch slaps I’ve read in a while LOL