Rookie wrote:

Rookie wrote:I think this is a transition year. We have depth and youth but the starting unit needs better talent. I think Randle will try and dominate the ball again and RJ will also do the same. Brunson needs to take control, but the coach again will fail to do what he needs to do with Randle and defining his role. The starting unit is too slow and will not win games against young teams that run....again. The second unit will again be the engine for this team and the most fun to watch.

I'm going 38 wins (38-44) and the fringes of the 10th spot in the play in.

I also think they need to make a trade at the deadline but have shown that they will not pull the trigger on a lopsided deal. If they an make a trade and fx the starting unit, I change my win total to 46 (46-36) and the 7th spot in the play in

“We want [Randle] to score a lot of different ways, so not just with the ball, but moving without the ball, running the floor, cutting, and that sort of thing,” Thibodeau said. “I think that’s one of his strengths, his speed and athleticism.

Ok so now the coach has said it, let’s see if Randle gets the message. Fixing Randle is the most important key to a successful season. Let’s all hope he is coachable. If this Randle shows up, I would go with 48 wins and a hard fought 6th spot in the playoffs. Yes, PLAYOFFS!

u left out one crucial piece:

thibs step up and sit his ass down when he pulls this s**t. that’s your job.

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Knicks have been run like a business for decades, that couldnt see past the next quarter. There was no such thing as long term thinking. Thats changed over the last 4 years or so. Not going for the quick fix, stockpiling draft picks. Keeping cap flexibility. Developing, and re signing draft picks.

Knicks now look like a well run business, thats close to paying dividends.

nyvector16 wrote:We are well underway of a rebuild in both culture and personnel.
Where Knicks fail and other franchises thrive is knowing when to pack it in midway through the season.
If you are a bottom dweller at game 41, do what GoldenState does, sit your top guys and straight tank.
Years where you are competitive you play out the whole season, but in years where you are not or there are significant injuries... just hang it up and play the lottery odds.

Reminds me of Pulp Fiction: F*@k pride... Pride only hurts, it never helps.
Knicks should approach the game more like a business.

I’d go with a time period of this FO but agree with your sentiments, especially the bolded.

It blows my mind that there would be some type of thought process that either Thibs or FO would be let go soon.

Panos wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

Nalod wrote:The "Fire Thibs" crowd offers no insight to what Johnny Bryant will do differently other than play the rookies.

Hahn said it best that the Kids have to beat the vets. WE make assumptions that if the vets suck then why not suck with the yoot and at least they get more time.

FO on the hot seat because? Fans are frustrated? So what does leon or next dude do? over pay for a star?
WE did not do it this summer and we applauded that.

I don't think we need to replace Thibs. I do hope Bryant is next in line though when Thibs retires. The attractiveness of Bryant is tied to two things. His track record with players like Lillard and Mitchell. But more presently, his energy and awareness during games. His passion for coaching is readily apparent and something I encourage. Add that to the idea that he was an important factor in the development of two current top twenty players and I think you have a coaching prospect.

I do think the Knicks offense needs a jolt. Specifically from the coaching side. I think the offense is using outdated concepts that result in a lower eFG than our opponents.

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/four-factors?dir=A&sort=EFG_PCT

The relationship between eFG and wins is pretty evident. Teams like Memphis and Toronto look likely to fall off of their win totals.

My point is that we shouldn't look at this in terms of youths and vets.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced?CF=MIN*GE*15&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612752&dir=A&sort=EFG_PCT

Shot selection needs to change. The two players with the lowest eFG on our team are the guys with the highest usage. Maybe Brunson takes some pressure off them. Worth waiting see the Brunson effect.

The biggest change we need is for Barrett and Randle to take less bad shots. I don't know if that's players (be better), coaching (run different plays) or FO (don't overpay for low eFG), but its the thing that needs to change on this team.

In terms of playing the youth, if we are going to suck, we should at least try sucking differently.

Check the team eFG post all star break:

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced?CF=MIN*GE*15&SeasonSegment=Post%20All-Star&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612752&dir=A&sort=EFG_PCT

This is the argument for playing the other guys.

Think many don't get it. We did not hire Rose/Thibs to suck and "just play the yoot"!

And....you do not fire Thibs because you think another coach could make this team play better. They won't. We may not have the talent yet to do so. Thibs was so good, he made the talent over achieve in 20/21.
You also do not fire Thibs because you want a different offense. NBA offenses are all pretty much the same. The NBA is an ISO, PnR, star oriented league. The idea fans have that someone can come in and put in a whole bunch of fancy new offensive plays, in which every player touches the ball twice each possession, is short sighted and lacks reality of what the NBA really is. Fact is, In the NBA, it's about how good your best players are. My favorite schemes are the Curry scheme. Greek Freak scheme. And the Luca scheme. Their coaches are geniuses the way they came up with them. And btw, what ever happened to "we need Defensive coach"??

The only reason that we should fire Thibs is because, as an organization, the Knicks are making a commitment to rebuilding. Then you would bring in Bryant, hire a young GM and immediately trade all your players. Ie. Jazz. As that is the best way to establish a new system and get the players to buy in. But I think everyone here knows the Knicks ownership is not willing to do that.
Nor can anyone here guarantee that after several years of rebuilding, we would be any better than what we are today. Many teams have shown that a lot of domino's have to fall in place in order to get to the ultimate goal. The NBA is littered with failed rebuilds.

The Knicks have sckd for 18.5 of the last 20 years --vets dont guarantee winning.also if im a new regime id better hope that some of my rookies become good rotation players.

hey remember when you said "All we need to do is find a way to draft Hasheem Thabeet and we will be good for a decade"

If only we had....

Frank Kaminsky and Mike Muscala say hi

BJ Mullens wants a seat at the table

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:

Panos wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

Nalod wrote:The "Fire Thibs" crowd offers no insight to what Johnny Bryant will do differently other than play the rookies.

Hahn said it best that the Kids have to beat the vets. WE make assumptions that if the vets suck then why not suck with the yoot and at least they get more time.

FO on the hot seat because? Fans are frustrated? So what does leon or next dude do? over pay for a star?
WE did not do it this summer and we applauded that.

I don't think we need to replace Thibs. I do hope Bryant is next in line though when Thibs retires. The attractiveness of Bryant is tied to two things. His track record with players like Lillard and Mitchell. But more presently, his energy and awareness during games. His passion for coaching is readily apparent and something I encourage. Add that to the idea that he was an important factor in the development of two current top twenty players and I think you have a coaching prospect.

I do think the Knicks offense needs a jolt. Specifically from the coaching side. I think the offense is using outdated concepts that result in a lower eFG than our opponents.

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/four-factors?dir=A&sort=EFG_PCT

The relationship between eFG and wins is pretty evident. Teams like Memphis and Toronto look likely to fall off of their win totals.

My point is that we shouldn't look at this in terms of youths and vets.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced?CF=MIN*GE*15&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612752&dir=A&sort=EFG_PCT

Shot selection needs to change. The two players with the lowest eFG on our team are the guys with the highest usage. Maybe Brunson takes some pressure off them. Worth waiting see the Brunson effect.

The biggest change we need is for Barrett and Randle to take less bad shots. I don't know if that's players (be better), coaching (run different plays) or FO (don't overpay for low eFG), but its the thing that needs to change on this team.

In terms of playing the youth, if we are going to suck, we should at least try sucking differently.

Check the team eFG post all star break:

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced?CF=MIN*GE*15&SeasonSegment=Post%20All-Star&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612752&dir=A&sort=EFG_PCT

This is the argument for playing the other guys.

Think many don't get it. We did not hire Rose/Thibs to suck and "just play the yoot"!

And....you do not fire Thibs because you think another coach could make this team play better. They won't. We may not have the talent yet to do so. Thibs was so good, he made the talent over achieve in 20/21.
You also do not fire Thibs because you want a different offense. NBA offenses are all pretty much the same. The NBA is an ISO, PnR, star oriented league. The idea fans have that someone can come in and put in a whole bunch of fancy new offensive plays, in which every player touches the ball twice each possession, is short sighted and lacks reality of what the NBA really is. Fact is, In the NBA, it's about how good your best players are. My favorite schemes are the Curry scheme. Greek Freak scheme. And the Luca scheme. Their coaches are geniuses the way they came up with them. And btw, what ever happened to "we need Defensive coach"??

The only reason that we should fire Thibs is because, as an organization, the Knicks are making a commitment to rebuilding. Then you would bring in Bryant, hire a young GM and immediately trade all your players. Ie. Jazz. As that is the best way to establish a new system and get the players to buy in. But I think everyone here knows the Knicks ownership is not willing to do that.
Nor can anyone here guarantee that after several years of rebuilding, we would be any better than what we are today. Many teams have shown that a lot of domino's have to fall in place in order to get to the ultimate goal. The NBA is littered with failed rebuilds.

The Knicks have sckd for 18.5 of the last 20 years --vets dont guarantee winning.also if im a new regime id better hope that some of my rookies become good rotation players.

hey remember when you said "All we need to do is find a way to draft Hasheem Thabeet and we will be good for a decade"

If only we had....

Frank Kaminsky and Mike Muscala say hi

BJ Mullens wants a seat at the table

Jimmmer Fredette says “ni hao”

Ky Bowman wants in -- number 1, baby!

Philc1 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:On a scale of Wembayama to play-in, I'd say we're closer to play-in. But I see them missing out on both.

We miss the playoffs I guarantee we are picking 8-11 again. No way Silver rigs the draft for us to get Wembanyana

That’s why I love the people who scream for us to tank every season. Have you seen us coincidentally never move up or fall back in position every year coke draft time?

To be fair the Knicks tanked for Zion and came away with RJ.

With that said this team isn’t tanking they could have done it a lot easier the two seasons prior so there is no chance they do it now that they are paying guys a lot of money to win.

but i am feeling pretty good about that after our first preseason game

if we have a quality win tonight, I'm going to hang my ass out more -- reveal the second butt cheek (this is for the ladies ) and up my prediction to 52

Chandler wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:

Panos wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

Nalod wrote:The "Fire Thibs" crowd offers no insight to what Johnny Bryant will do differently other than play the rookies.

Hahn said it best that the Kids have to beat the vets. WE make assumptions that if the vets suck then why not suck with the yoot and at least they get more time.

FO on the hot seat because? Fans are frustrated? So what does leon or next dude do? over pay for a star?
WE did not do it this summer and we applauded that.

I don't think we need to replace Thibs. I do hope Bryant is next in line though when Thibs retires. The attractiveness of Bryant is tied to two things. His track record with players like Lillard and Mitchell. But more presently, his energy and awareness during games. His passion for coaching is readily apparent and something I encourage. Add that to the idea that he was an important factor in the development of two current top twenty players and I think you have a coaching prospect.

I do think the Knicks offense needs a jolt. Specifically from the coaching side. I think the offense is using outdated concepts that result in a lower eFG than our opponents.

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/four-factors?dir=A&sort=EFG_PCT

The relationship between eFG and wins is pretty evident. Teams like Memphis and Toronto look likely to fall off of their win totals.

My point is that we shouldn't look at this in terms of youths and vets.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced?CF=MIN*GE*15&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612752&dir=A&sort=EFG_PCT

Shot selection needs to change. The two players with the lowest eFG on our team are the guys with the highest usage. Maybe Brunson takes some pressure off them. Worth waiting see the Brunson effect.

The biggest change we need is for Barrett and Randle to take less bad shots. I don't know if that's players (be better), coaching (run different plays) or FO (don't overpay for low eFG), but its the thing that needs to change on this team.

In terms of playing the youth, if we are going to suck, we should at least try sucking differently.

Check the team eFG post all star break:

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced?CF=MIN*GE*15&SeasonSegment=Post%20All-Star&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612752&dir=A&sort=EFG_PCT

This is the argument for playing the other guys.

Think many don't get it. We did not hire Rose/Thibs to suck and "just play the yoot"!

And....you do not fire Thibs because you think another coach could make this team play better. They won't. We may not have the talent yet to do so. Thibs was so good, he made the talent over achieve in 20/21.
You also do not fire Thibs because you want a different offense. NBA offenses are all pretty much the same. The NBA is an ISO, PnR, star oriented league. The idea fans have that someone can come in and put in a whole bunch of fancy new offensive plays, in which every player touches the ball twice each possession, is short sighted and lacks reality of what the NBA really is. Fact is, In the NBA, it's about how good your best players are. My favorite schemes are the Curry scheme. Greek Freak scheme. And the Luca scheme. Their coaches are geniuses the way they came up with them. And btw, what ever happened to "we need Defensive coach"??

The only reason that we should fire Thibs is because, as an organization, the Knicks are making a commitment to rebuilding. Then you would bring in Bryant, hire a young GM and immediately trade all your players. Ie. Jazz. As that is the best way to establish a new system and get the players to buy in. But I think everyone here knows the Knicks ownership is not willing to do that.
Nor can anyone here guarantee that after several years of rebuilding, we would be any better than what we are today. Many teams have shown that a lot of domino's have to fall in place in order to get to the ultimate goal. The NBA is littered with failed rebuilds.

The Knicks have sckd for 18.5 of the last 20 years --vets dont guarantee winning.also if im a new regime id better hope that some of my rookies become good rotation players.

hey remember when you said "All we need to do is find a way to draft Hasheem Thabeet and we will be good for a decade"

If only we had....

Frank Kaminsky and Mike Muscala say hi

BJ Mullens wants a seat at the table

Jimmmer Fredette says “ni hao”

Ky Bowman wants in -- number 1, baby!

EwingsGlass wrote:Win-Loss
47-35. I was about to reverse that to 35-47, but I think many other teams will tank early.
1) I think the Knicks offense needs work. This is the biggest risk is the eFG of the starting lineup. They have too many shooters and not enough role players.
2) Their defense looks like it may have the same weaknesses at the Kemba defense. Brunson may be better than Kemba, but I am not really feeling strong on the Brunson/Fournier backcourt and its ability to stay in front of their opponent.
3) That said, I think a lot of teams are going to forfeit early this season in order to jockey for position in the 2023 draft. I think this means that the Knicks pick up 5 or 6 free wins. So, assume they are 41-41 in a normal year, I think they get a few extra gimmies this year.

Playoffs
I think they are 8th seed. I think the field is split pretty heavily between competitors and tankers.

Player Movement
Nothing special. Might see a consolidation move at SG. That really SHOULD happen, but it is unclear that it will - whether there are willing trade partners.

Standout Players
Quickley is in the running for 6MOY.
Randle makes All Defense second team.
Brunson makes All-Star Team as an alternate.

Opening Day Lineup
This is the only place I am really hanging my ass. I think Reddish opens eyes at camp. I think the Knicks see the need to put a big body at the 2 next to Brunson and Reddish gets a chance to fill in that lineup. If this lineup works and they bring a blue collar attitude to the Court, they can surprise people.
1st Unit - Brunson/Barrett/Reddish/Randle/Robinson
2nd Unit - Rose/Quick/Fournier/Toppin/Hart
McBride/Grimes/Sims

Opening Day lineup didn't work for me here, but I think the concept was right. Needed 10 more games to happen.

Martin, does Record Predictor reset to 0 each season?

Rookie wrote:

Rookie wrote:I think this is a transition year. We have depth and youth but the starting unit needs better talent. I think Randle will try and dominate the ball again and RJ will also do the same. Brunson needs to take control, but the coach again will fail to do what he needs to do with Randle and defining his role. The starting unit is too slow and will not win games against young teams that run....again. The second unit will again be the engine for this team and the most fun to watch.

I'm going 38 wins (38-44) and the fringes of the 10th spot in the play in.

I also think they need to make a trade at the deadline but have shown that they will not pull the trigger on a lopsided deal. If they an make a trade and fx the starting unit, I change my win total to 46 (46-36) and the 7th spot in the play in

“We want [Randle] to score a lot of different ways, so not just with the ball, but moving without the ball, running the floor, cutting, and that sort of thing,” Thibodeau said. “I think that’s one of his strengths, his speed and athleticism.

Ok so now the coach has said it, let’s see if Randle gets the message. Fixing Randle is the most important key to a successful season. Let’s all hope he is coachable. If this Randle shows up, I would go with 48 wins and a hard fought 6th spot in the playoffs. Yes, PLAYOFFS!

Looks like I guessed 36, 46 and 48 wins. Do I get the Briggs award this season?