gradyandrew wrote:

Nalod wrote:They got Wiggins for Deangelo and a lottery pick that became Kuminga.
They did not play yoot as much as series went on. Very "Thibian"?
They rebooted this team after sucking for a few years. Really impressive.
A plan and a vision and it came together. Many thought they had to move yoot assets and get another player. They did.
It was deangelo. Basically in the long run they traded Durant for Wiggins and Kuminga and have another chip.
Hindsight brilliance!!!!!!!! FO must be very happy with the road less taken, a new building and all the while few thought it would work.
Few could have seen it. Not saying they did, but again, they had a plan and it executed. Other teams have plans and they are really good ones, but they don't execute.
With the exception of the last run with Durant they have been very lucky/fortunate in their injuries to get fulfil the quest of victory. CP3 lack of that perhaps has elevated the Warriors dynasty.
CP3 has been on some very good teams that were b-lining it to a finals but he gets hurt. His runs with Clippers, Rockets and PHX all ended with his injuries in years warrior won.
Thats how it works. Got to have injuries kept at minimum to win.

Thank you Nalod! I have seen a dozen articles about how Bob Myers is such a visionary and how the Warriors are built for now and the future. They also mention how bad the Warriors were and how no one expected it. None of them mention the name James Wiseman.

Fact, in 2019-2020 Steph Draymond and Klay were injured and they landed the number 2 pick and got Wiseman one pick before eventually ROY LaMelo Ball.

In 2020-21 They started Wiseman for the first 2/3 of the season and mostly lost. As soon as Wiseman got injured and Kevon Looney started again, the Warriors were back. Sure they lost 2 games in the play-in, first on LeBron's blind shot and then to ROY Ja Morant, both on end of game plays. If Warriors made it in, their chances were just as good as anyone. I don't think they get past the Bucks, but definitely would have been even money vs the Suns.

0 of their drafted youth made an impact except for Jordan Poole who they got following their final KD season.

Gary Payton II and Otto Porter were minimum FA pickups and the swing pieces in this championship.

The Warriors badly messed up the Wiseman pick. It's an open question whether he's an NBA player. Shades of Darko. Maybe Kuminga and Moody become valuable players.

Nothing more to the Warriors than great players, great coach, and great team. Let's leave the Bob Myers genius arguments out of the picture.

Wiseman has talent but has been hurt since his rookie season. Time will tell if he will be a Sam Bowie or become the player he's projected to be. Calling him Darko either means you haven't watched him play (when he did play) or you just don't like him. Yes they stunk when he started but that's because he was a rookie that needed (and still needs) time to figure things out... but the talent is there. Unsure if the body is there?

Warriors really couldn't have taken LaMelo with Curry dominating the ball. Poole as an example is talented and can be that 3rd combo guard but Ball would have likely disrupted the veterans as he didn't want to go to a team to sit, watch and learn. His dad would have caused problems the moment Curry and Klay retained their starting positions. I remember the Warriors exploring trading back and that may have been the best play but still think (if healthy) Wiseman can become a very good player.

Kuminga looks like he will become an Iguodala-type player.

Moody's future is less clear but we'll know in about 2 years if the Warriors drafted well.

As for Bob Myers - not sure who made each specific call but they are clearly doing something right as they landed Poole who would easily start for the Knicks and probably 1/2 the league. Selecting Otto and GP2 seem like perfect fits. Warriors seem to know how to construct rosters.

gradyandrew wrote:Good call. I haven't watched him play. When he did Warriors were one of the worst teams in the league. Since he got injured they have been one of the best. ORTNG 98 DRTNG 112

I think both are true. Wiseman is young and talented... and also inexperienced with little college coming to a team looking to make a deep run (despite the injuries). The Warriors were def worse with him on the court and smart to move on to salvage their season.

If he recovers and doesn't show to be fragile - he's has a lot of upside, athletic gifts and many ingredients to be a upper echelon center. I don't think the Warriors really wanted to draft him but since they did he has the luxury to heal up, learn from the bench and steadily earn minutes with the other young players. I live out in the Bay area and fans are divided on him - mostly because he will need a few years to develop and many fans wanted a more "ready to go" player to plug in with the veteran players. Crazy that they won the title and have 3 promising young players sitting on the bench.

gradyandrew wrote:The problem with your argument is that LaMelo is already an All Star with MVP upside. To suggest that they didn't blow that pick is ridiculous.

Actually I disagree about blowing the pick because LaMelo would not likely have been an All-Star on the Warriors because he wouldn't have played as much at his natural position. Maybe off the ball but Kerr would not play LaMelo over Curry and Ball's strengths is when he is handling the ball. Maybe they would have been better off drafting LaMelo and then rerouting him elsewhere but "fit" has a lot to do with a player's success. Also maybe premature to suggest Wiseman is a bust because he got hurt while on a championship level team.

Hope we can at least agree that LaMelo needs the ball in his hands and that he went to the perfect team where expectations were low, he could run the show, etc... not arguing he wouldn't still be a very good player on any team (talent prevails) but I think your comparison is unfair as Wiseman is injured and LaMelo is on a different team so the only thing one can clearly state is that LaMelo has proven more valuable so far.

If Wiseman returns and progresses - he has the ability to be a top center. If his body doesn't allow - not sure it's anything more than bad luck as Wiseman didn't have an extensive injury history before being drafted.

This is not a G.Oden vs Durant comparison...

martin wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:The problem with your argument is that LaMelo is already an All Star with MVP upside. To suggest that they didn't blow that pick is ridiculous.

Actually I disagree about blowing the pick because LaMelo would not likely have been an All-Star on the Warriors because he wouldn't have played as much at his natural position. Maybe off the ball but Kerr would not play LaMelo over Curry and Ball's strengths is when he is handling the ball. Maybe they would have been better off drafting LaMelo and then rerouting him elsewhere but "fit" has a lot to do with a player's success. Also maybe premature to suggest Wiseman is a bust because he got hurt while on a championship level team.

Hope we can at least agree that LaMelo needs the ball in his hands and that he went to the perfect team where expectations were low, he could run the show, etc... not arguing he wouldn't still be a very good player on any team (talent prevails) but I think your comparison is unfair as Wiseman is injured and LaMelo is on a different team so the only thing one can clearly state is that LaMelo has proven more valuable so far.

If Wiseman returns and progresses - he has the ability to be a top center. If his body doesn't allow - not sure it's anything more than bad luck as Wiseman didn't have an extensive injury history before being drafted.

This is not a G.Oden vs Durant comparison...

Not yet but it ain't looking pristine either. I didn't realize Wiseman's full timeline until I read the below. Little scary.

https://www.thewarriorstalk.com/blog/2022/2/6/revisiting-james-wisemans-injury-history-amidst-current-saga

Revisiting James Wiseman’s Injury History Amidst Current Saga

It’s a refrain we’ve heard so many times: the Golden State Warriors have the second-best record in the NBA, and James Wiseman hasn’t even played in a game yet.

The implication here is obvious — once Wiseman returns from his meniscus injury suffered in April 2021, having yet another player makes the Warriors even more dangerous. But in recent weeks, as Wiseman’s setbacks in his rehab become widely known, the tone has shifted. There are now legitimate questions about how much he’ll play this season, if at all. The added twists include a trip to health and safety protocols and a second surgery performed in December to control swelling in his knee. These issues, combined with the fact that the surgery was not revealed publicly until about four weeks after it happened, have made many Warriors fans nervous about his future and annoyed with the organization over what feels like a lack of transparency about Wiseman’s recovery process.

Saturday morning saw a step in the right direction when Wiseman practiced with the team and earned positive comments about his performance. But he still hasn’t been cleared for contact and much of his timetable remains unclear. With as many missteps as there have already been, no one wants to make too many predictions about what comes next.

Unfortunately, this is not the first time that Wiseman has dealt with a physical toll. Large portions of his career have been marked by injuries and other ailments, and these challenges help to explain his somewhat underwhelming NBA rookie season. After staying mostly healthy throughout high school, Wiseman entered the University of Memphis in 2019 as a five-star prospect and a potential first overall pick in the 2020 NBA Draft. He missed the team’s exhibition series in the Bahamas in August due to a shoulder injury, then sat out both October preseason games with an ankle injury. He then returned in early November and appeared in Memphis’ first three regular-season games before the NCAA ruled him ineligible due to his receiving improper benefits from Memphis head coach Penny Hardaway. Wiseman served seven games of a 12-game suspension before choosing to leave school and prepare for the draft on his own in mid-December. After the COVID-19 pandemic delayed the draft by several months, he was finally taken second overall by the Warriors on Nov. 18, 2020.

The start of Wiseman’s NBA career seemed to be an opportunity for him to reset and get back to playing basketball, and he had about a month to prepare for the start of the regular season. But he tested positive for COVID-19 on Dec. 7 and subsequently missed all three Warriors preseason games and several practices. When he returned to the court for the team’s season opener against the Brooklyn Nets on Dec. 22, it was the first time he’d played in an organized basketball game in more than 13 months, and only the fourth in more than a year and a half. Those time frames, which injuries and illnesses only exacerbated, seemed like ideal breeding grounds for a player who might have challenges adjusting to the pace and style of NBA basketball, and they were. Though he made some spectacular plays and had great individual games, Wiseman was mostly a negative when he was on the floor during the 2020-2021 Warriors season.

Wiseman played in 39 of the team’s first 53 games, but suffered the meniscus injury in that 39th game. Shortly thereafter, he underwent a surgery that ruled him out for the rest of the season, but his youth and the general recovery period for meniscus injuries made the Warriors hopeful that he would return for the start of the 2021-2022 season.

Since then, most of the news surrounding Wiseman has been a constant stream of setbacks, postponements and confusion. His expected season debut has been speculated as sometime around Christmas Day, Martin Luther King Day and the All-Star break, among others. None of them have come to fruition, and many fans are now simply hoping that he will be back in time to be a meaningful contributor to a potential postseason run.

When the Warriors drafted James Wiseman, they were aware that his relatively raw status made him both an intriguing prospect and an unpredictable one. His injury issues have only made his future more uncertain. He has the skill to be a franchise centerpiece for years to come, but it’s clear that there’s a long road ahead to get to that point.

Well you're def right that the fact that it's taken him so long to recover from a meniscus injury is concerning. They usually only take a month or two. Wiseman didn't have Oden's pre-draft injury history though - a shoulder, an ankle - nothing suggesting reoccurring or chronic. Now maybe he is brittle but it's not like Oden where you knew there was a concern before drafting him. The talent is there - maybe the work ethic is not, maybe he needs bulk or he's a kid/immature. Haven't heard anything negative about Wiseman out here - except that it's taking him a very long time for him to get back on the court.

So I don't think we're at "bust point" yet and I honestly don't think there was a realistic scenario where the Warriors drafted LaMelo and he played with the veterans (only if the moved Steph or Klay then possibly). They could have rerouted him, drafted someone else, traded back, etc... but it would not have worked for either side to draft LaMelo and play him off the ball. If 3 full seasons pass and Wiseman is either still injured or not performing - than it's enough time to conclude it was a bust IMO.