martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:

martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:My post above mention need Brogdon for our 11 the pick and contracts. I don't support that plan just see it happening. Indiana has a older and often injured ph with a big contract in Brogdon and see that as a problem for them. We should offer them expiring contracts, and several second picks. We are doing them a favor. If Brogdon has the value to get back a lottery pick then we should fans no less for Randall.

I don't think a first rounder is needed for Brogdan. That pick they used for Cam probably should have been enough.

Matching expiring contracts plus a second probably gets it done for Brogdon. I prefer Dinwiddie tho

Dinwiddie is just so inefficient and not a good creator for others. Brogdon would be a very strong backup option to Brunson. If we don’t land Brunson or Brogdon I’d rather just stick with IQ and Rose at PG.

Dinwiddie is not a good 3 point shooter that is definitely true but he’s a good scorer otherwise and I am going to have to disagree with you on his ability to run an offense. He was the starting pg on a nets team that made the playoffs that didn’t have alot if talent around him(was before the KD and Kyrie signings)

Kemba and Noel work salary wise almost perfectly for Dinwiddie. I'd offer them their pick back next year - which honestly may not convey and I would ask for their first rounder this year and maybe offer them a second rounder from this year if we have it. They can resign Brunson who is younger than Dinwiddie and probably less of an injury worry.

Our back court is then IQ, McBride, Rose & Dinwiddie. That is an absolute upgrade and I think get's us into the play off mix. Deal helps both teams I think tremendously. Makes too much sense.

Dinwiddie shot .404 from 3 with the Mavs- sure, small sample size and playing off Luka- but he can clearly improve on his career numbers.

Dinwiddie is not an upgrade and he is inefficient as a shooter, you just can't have that on the Knicks with RJ and Randle. He is a poor fit.

And his misses a ton of game. He is also 29.

are you saying he isn't an upgrade over Kemba Walker & Nerlens Noel?

He is 29 and he misses a ton of games.

I'm just looking for a stop gap veteran PG that can backstop a PG rotation of IQ, Rose, Mcrbide. It's in my made up scenario, not costing anything- let's face it, Kemba looked done and Noel didn't contribute a whole lot.

And if we can swap picks - meaning their future (2023) for this year's first from them, I am able to convey an asset to today.

Why are you assuming straight comparison of Kemba/Noel to Dinwiddie? That doesn't make sense.

Where are you putting Dinwiddie in a rotation of IQ/Rose/McBride? It literally just doesn't make sense when you also have Grimes, RJ, Fournier.

Dimwiddie is not an upgrade while you are also trying to get playing time for guys like IQ, Grimes, McBride and the like.

Guys will get playing time if they earn it. I don't think McBride is ready next year, and might not be good.

Right now - the PG mix is:

IQ, Kemba, Rose, Burks, McBride.

Kemba's finished.

Burks should be anything but a PG.

That leaves IQ, Rose.

How can you go into next season with that as your plan?

You get Dinwiddie - he probably starts. And then you have Fournier, Rose, IQ and Grimes as the guys getting the minutes from the back court. If McBride pushes someone out, great. If Rose and Dinwiddie are hurt at the same time, very possible, he gets minutes.

I think this makes a lot of sense for both teams.

Vmart wrote:

martin wrote:

Vmart wrote:We have point guards. It’s just that they don’t get an opportunity with the Knicks. If Mc Bride plays from the beginning and Quickly from the beginning at PG they would be well ahead in their curve. I blame Thibs for their stunted growth.

Vmart, do you actually watch the games?

I can ask you the same. Do you actually watch the game Martin? Because you know the development was not there and the trust isn’t there either. All year there was suppressing the like of McBride, Quickly and Obi. It was until the year was over that they were given the time and they showed out. Where were the Knicks going playing Burks at PG? You guys are delusional if you think Thibs was any good with his decisions. He **** the bed and you got to call it for what it is. If he came to realization sooner he would have won games playing the young ones.

Now you guys are craving other PGs from other teams all because thibs can’t water his lawn and fertilize it. Now the grass is greener on other teams because they actually put the time and effort into make players good.

You gotta watch more Knicks and actually pay attention

martin wrote:

Vmart wrote:

martin wrote:

Vmart wrote:We have point guards. It’s just that they don’t get an opportunity with the Knicks. If Mc Bride plays from the beginning and Quickly from the beginning at PG they would be well ahead in their curve. I blame Thibs for their stunted growth.

Vmart, do you actually watch the games?

I can ask you the same. Do you actually watch the game Martin? Because you know the development was not there and the trust isn’t there either. All year there was suppressing the like of McBride, Quickly and Obi. It was until the year was over that they were given the time and they showed out. Where were the Knicks going playing Burks at PG? You guys are delusional if you think Thibs was any good with his decisions. He **** the bed and you got to call it for what it is. If he came to realization sooner he would have won games playing the young ones.

Now you guys are craving other PGs from other teams all because thibs can’t water his lawn and fertilize it. Now the grass is greener on other teams because they actually put the time and effort into make players good.

You gotta watch more Knicks and actually pay attention

JVG called him out for his madness.

martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:

martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:

martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:My post above mention need Brogdon for our 11 the pick and contracts. I don't support that plan just see it happening. Indiana has a older and often injured ph with a big contract in Brogdon and see that as a problem for them. We should offer them expiring contracts, and several second picks. We are doing them a favor. If Brogdon has the value to get back a lottery pick then we should fans no less for Randall.

I don't think a first rounder is needed for Brogdan. That pick they used for Cam probably should have been enough.

Matching expiring contracts plus a second probably gets it done for Brogdon. I prefer Dinwiddie tho

Dinwiddie is just so inefficient and not a good creator for others. Brogdon would be a very strong backup option to Brunson. If we don’t land Brunson or Brogdon I’d rather just stick with IQ and Rose at PG.

Dinwiddie is not a good 3 point shooter that is definitely true but he’s a good scorer otherwise and I am going to have to disagree with you on his ability to run an offense. He was the starting pg on a nets team that made the playoffs that didn’t have alot if talent around him(was before the KD and Kyrie signings)

Kemba and Noel work salary wise almost perfectly for Dinwiddie. I'd offer them their pick back next year - which honestly may not convey and I would ask for their first rounder this year and maybe offer them a second rounder from this year if we have it. They can resign Brunson who is younger than Dinwiddie and probably less of an injury worry.

Our back court is then IQ, McBride, Rose & Dinwiddie. That is an absolute upgrade and I think get's us into the play off mix. Deal helps both teams I think tremendously. Makes too much sense.

Dinwiddie shot .404 from 3 with the Mavs- sure, small sample size and playing off Luka- but he can clearly improve on his career numbers.

Dinwiddie is not an upgrade and he is inefficient as a shooter, you just can't have that on the Knicks with RJ and Randle. He is a poor fit.

And his misses a ton of game. He is also 29.

are you saying he isn't an upgrade over Kemba Walker & Nerlens Noel?

He is 29 and he misses a ton of games.

I'm just looking for a stop gap veteran PG that can backstop a PG rotation of IQ, Rose, Mcrbide. It's in my made up scenario, not costing anything- let's face it, Kemba looked done and Noel didn't contribute a whole lot.

And if we can swap picks - meaning their future (2023) for this year's first from them, I am able to convey an asset to today.

Why are you assuming straight comparison of Kemba/Noel to Dinwiddie? That doesn't make sense.

Where are you putting Dinwiddie in a rotation of IQ/Rose/McBride? It literally just doesn't make sense when you also have Grimes, RJ, Fournier.

Dimwiddie is not an upgrade while you are also trying to get playing time for guys like IQ, Grimes, McBride and the like.

Guys will get playing time if they earn it. I don't think McBride is ready next year, and might not be good.

Right now - the PG mix is:

IQ, Kemba, Rose, Burks, McBride.

Kemba's finished.

Burks should be anything but a PG.

That leaves IQ, Rose.

How can you go into next season with that as your plan?

You get Dinwiddie - he probably starts. And then you have Fournier, Rose, IQ and Grimes as the guys getting the minutes from the back court. If McBride pushes someone out, great. If Rose and Dinwiddie are hurt at the same time, very possible, he gets minutes.

I think this makes a lot of sense for both teams.

Because IQ actually started to show signs. Rose did get hurt and he is not young but that's not a reason to expect him to be gone the whole season either.

You don't trade for a player who brings more roster problems than solutions and that's what Dinwiddie is

You are kinda of over correcting IMO.

Also, you expect next year's Dallas pick to NOT convey?

I take that back on the pick. I had it confused with the protection Charlotte had.

I agree on IQ. I think he might be our best, most dynamic talent.

But you can't put that pressure on him. He might very well earn out the starting role over Dinwiddie. In which case, it's him and Rose.

He has warts, Dinwiddie, absolutely. I just think last year we needed a better plan around PG. Still do.

I'm ok with this being a 'gap year' in our development. But you have to try, as the GM, to fill your biggest holes - and PG remains an issue.

ESOMKnicks wrote:The more I look at he playoffs, the less i like the idea of the Knicks taking on another PG reclamation project or throwing big $$$ on another mid-level PG.

Our reclamation project has been Kemba. Maybe a season off is just what he needed to become serviceable again. Why not give him another chance? We should let his story play out completely, while giving IQ and McBride a shot of growing into our long-term answer at PG, before taking another gamble on that position.

Plus look out for high-potential talent in the draft (though I am very much in the BPA camp on that one), and chances to acquire a true star PG for dimes on the dollar.

I don’t think Thibs likes Walker and I don’t know if time off is going to help his form. He is just getting older, like Rose.

I know what I saw when I watched the games. At the same time, Burks did play better as the team gelled around RJ and having to deal with Randles Salty demeanor which in part was due to injury and undisclosed season long frustrations.

The levity of him gone in the last meaningless games and Thibs then going with Obi and IQ seemed to set a trajectory that Thibs could have done this earlier? Thibs admited he could have worked them in earlier? Was this said to promote some postitive energy? Did the kids have to prove themselves first?

did we forget that Randle did have some good games and seemed a bit happier until we beat the bulls and he stormed off the court with fans slamming him, and he proclaimed he was done? All to find out he reinjured his quad and MAYBE the statement implied he was now done for the season?

Im not asking to be convinced or homerizing any of this. But just keep an open mind to all possibilities when you don’t know the facts! Its mind blowing how some of you think you know what the deal is. You don’t. You may guess correctly, but its a guess.

There is not a fan here that does not want Deuce to star, believe IQ is the shizzle, and OBI is Amare part II!, that we can trade Randle for Ayton and just go with our roster from there and RJ is the next thing leading us to glory!

As for Thibs stunting the yoot, lets just assume there are qualifications that some coaches have before they give the keys over to a player and from what I saw, they had to go thru a process until they got going. Same for Grimes. We saw when Fiz just let them develop and it did not work. Thibs holds to a much higher standard. The same one that got us the 4th seed the year before. He is Rigid, and sound in his convictions. Some are drawbacks. Just like all good/great coaches. They are not perfect.

franco12 wrote:

martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:I take that back on the pick. I had it confused with the protection Charlotte had.

I agree on IQ. I think he might be our best, most dynamic talent.

But you can't put that pressure on him. He might very well earn out the starting role over Dinwiddie. In which case, it's him and Rose.

He has warts, Dinwiddie, absolutely. I just think last year we needed a better plan around PG. Still do.

I'm ok with this being a 'gap year' in our development. But you have to try, as the GM, to fill your biggest holes - and PG remains an issue.

I just think there is a fine line between trading for a player who is a stop gap type and one who is a stepping stone to making your team better. For me, guy like Dinwiddie is at best a stop gap and nothing towards a solution.

IQ needs more minutes and I'd rather err on the side of the possibility of Rose getting hurt and relying on McBride and even Burks than introduce more wings into an overcrowded roster.

I think IQ might be a long term solution at the PG position.

Dimwiddie contributes towards the solution by taking some of the pressure off IQ, and allowing him to continue his development.

If you're advocating like I think some do and are, that a sink of swim, toss him in the deep end and let him work through any growing pains, I dig that and realize that could be the right approach for all or at best, some players.

But I am not saying Dinwiddie- who seemed to put up a real 0 last night (was he outscored by Frank, have to watch the game)- is anything more than a stop gap move.

I'm hoping we land in the top 4, draft a player like Ivey and never look back on these inane discussions we have about making our pathetic team just a little less pathetic.

I am not. He has both shown growth and earned towards starting or at least getting heavy minutes, around 30. The last 2 years would have been a sink or swim situation and I was not in favor of giving unearned minutes to IQ or starting him but this year is different. He has shown enough IMHO

Derrick Rose is there to relieve any pressure from IQ. Same with Burks. Dinwiddie would be like 3rd in line for that role and it's not necessary.

The unknown? Our Lottery position, draft night deals, Free agency, then the line up and contingency plans.

Me? I find a deal so Drose can chase a ring. That 13mm will help too going out. Me? Dallas looks bad and Mitch would look good. Has to be a deal here for Brunson. Nothing says Brunson starts forever. Has to be a trade friendly deal which means decent contract and he has to hold value. Why? I want IQ to take over. Its ok, IQ only going into 3rd year. He might not be ready as we'd like, but I'd give him Drose minutes.
Or.....
Maybe Rokas can be as good as Brunson in short time and we start IQ. Or, dozen or so more scenarios.
My guess is Cam or Grimes gets traded. Im repeating this a lot.

So far, I have mitch, Grimes/Cam, and Drose off the team. I think we can go with Norlens for about 20 games, then bring in sims. My thinking is we draft a 5 or one comes via draft. Not turner. Not Ike, Not Tina, Not Ted or Bootsrtrap.
Front office loves Obi. My guess is we see some form of Obi/Randle combo if Obi hit his outside shot.

ToddTT wrote:

franco12 wrote:

ESOMKnicks wrote:The more I look at he playoffs, the less i like the idea of the Knicks taking on another PG reclamation project or throwing big $$$ on another mid-level PG.

Our reclamation project has been Kemba. Maybe a season off is just what he needed to become serviceable again. Why not give him another chance? We should let his story play out completely, while giving IQ and McBride a shot of growing into our long-term answer at PG, before taking another gamble on that position.

Plus look out for high-potential talent in the draft (though I am very much in the BPA camp on that one), and chances to acquire a true star PG for dimes on the dollar.

I don’t think Thibs likes Walker and I don’t know if time off is going to help his form. He is just getting older, like Rose.

If Walker sees another minute in a Knicks uni, I’m out. I’ll root for the Nets. Or watch Hockey.

so what was up with Kemba and his 44 point game? We did see flashes of a player that could make an impact. Does he need to go to Phoenix?

If we don't make any moves, is it awful to have him on the bench, assuming he understands he is break glass in case of emergency, behind IQ, Rose, McBride, Burks?