wargames wrote:I think the FO won’t retool significantly. We’re not contenders but that is ok when the core is young. I expect them to fix the leaks, tighten the depth, and continue to build a war chest of young talent. I am far from a Randle fan, but I also don’t think they move him or Mitch. Grab a reliable PG like Tyus, get a vet who can mentor the wings like Hayward. Pay Mitch because he can defend the perimeter and go into year three of a rebuild. I think they can push for the playoffs again if they do that because it would fix their defense.

Agree on all points except I think we get a different veteran PG. Tyus will want too much money

Philc1 wrote:

wargames wrote:I think the FO won’t retool significantly. We’re not contenders but that is ok when the core is young. I expect them to fix the leaks, tighten the depth, and continue to build a war chest of young talent. I am far from a Randle fan, but I also don’t think they move him or Mitch. Grab a reliable PG like Tyus, get a vet who can mentor the wings like Hayward. Pay Mitch because he can defend the perimeter and go into year three of a rebuild. I think they can push for the playoffs again if they do that because it would fix their defense.

Agree on all points except I think we get a different veteran PG. Tyus will want too much money

You might be right… I just hope the Allure of being a starter is enough. Knicks could offer him a 3 year player option MLE and if he shows and proves he would get more money on the next contract I. Two years than what he’ll get backing up Ja.

Think of guys Like Lowry and Dragic who were initially backups, but took chances on themselves becoming starters and got paid.

BigDaddyG wrote:

Nalod wrote:Tyus is a on the cusp type player. Like Howard Eisley, Brandon Jennings, Mudiay, and our own ELF. There are dozens of guys like this. There are many that step up and becoming NBA talent and a window to look good and be a starter. Where does he tilt from here? Trend a bit higher and be a starter or is he a long term back up?
Is he elevated by his roster like Eisley was? Or is he ready for prime time? Im sure he wants a 4 year starter money deal and the chance to have security and lead a team with along term deal. who would not.

Don't forget Cam Payton, who had a big time dropoff after extending with the Sun's last season.

Exactly, plus the Grizzlies have three first round picks and they are maxing Ja. I don’t think they will want to over pay Tyus. The Knicks have a chance, and even Tyus was talking about wanting to be a starter in his last interview. I actually like him on the Knicks because he plays defense, shoots the 3 and is smart. We desperately need that next to Randle if he is going to be effective again.

martin wrote:

wargames wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Nalod wrote:Tyus is a on the cusp type player. Like Howard Eisley, Brandon Jennings, Mudiay, and our own ELF. There are dozens of guys like this. There are many that step up and becoming NBA talent and a window to look good and be a starter. Where does he tilt from here? Trend a bit higher and be a starter or is he a long term back up?
Is he elevated by his roster like Eisley was? Or is he ready for prime time? Im sure he wants a 4 year starter money deal and the chance to have security and lead a team with along term deal. who would not.

Don't forget Cam Payton, who had a big time dropoff after extending with the Sun's last season.

Exactly, plus the Grizzlies have three first round picks and they are maxing Ja. I don’t think they will want to over pay Tyus. The Knicks have a chance, and even Tyus was talking about wanting to be a starter in his last interview. I actually like him on the Knicks because he plays defense, shoots the 3 and is smart. We desperately need that next to Randle if he is going to be effective again.

The thinking is that Tyus would rather take a salary that starts at the MLE $10M over 4 max years to maybe start on a team that didn't make the playoffs instead of MORE than $10M at a possible 5 year deal to be on a team that is on the cusp of getting to finals but be a backup?

I think if you switch teams you can only get 5% increase vs 8% increase if you stay on current team.

Tyus is going to leave > $14M on the table just to start on a much crappier team? Cause that's the difference.

Also, Tyus is 27, this may be his last opportunity at a big contract in his pro career. Literally his last chance to get his big payday.

His mama or gf or wife gonna slap him silly if he don't just demand the most from the Grizz. That's real life.

I'm not sure Griz go long-term on Tyus. They have Morant and a few more extensions coming up. I can't definitely see them overpaying on a short term deal tho. Maybe even front load a crazy amount in year one ( not sure if that's still legal).

martin wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:

wargames wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Nalod wrote:Tyus is a on the cusp type player. Like Howard Eisley, Brandon Jennings, Mudiay, and our own ELF. There are dozens of guys like this. There are many that step up and becoming NBA talent and a window to look good and be a starter. Where does he tilt from here? Trend a bit higher and be a starter or is he a long term back up?
Is he elevated by his roster like Eisley was? Or is he ready for prime time? Im sure he wants a 4 year starter money deal and the chance to have security and lead a team with along term deal. who would not.

Don't forget Cam Payton, who had a big time dropoff after extending with the Sun's last season.

Exactly, plus the Grizzlies have three first round picks and they are maxing Ja. I don’t think they will want to over pay Tyus. The Knicks have a chance, and even Tyus was talking about wanting to be a starter in his last interview. I actually like him on the Knicks because he plays defense, shoots the 3 and is smart. We desperately need that next to Randle if he is going to be effective again.

The thinking is that Tyus would rather take a salary that starts at the MLE $10M over 4 max years to maybe start on a team that didn't make the playoffs instead of MORE than $10M at a possible 5 year deal to be on a team that is on the cusp of getting to finals but be a backup?

I think if you switch teams you can only get 5% increase vs 8% increase if you stay on current team.

Tyus is going to leave > $14M on the table just to start on a much crappier team? Cause that's the difference.

Also, Tyus is 27, this may be his last opportunity at a big contract in his pro career. Literally his last chance to get his big payday.

His mama or gf or wife gonna slap him silly if he don't just demand the most from the Grizz. That's real life.

I'm not sure Griz go long-term on Tyus. They have Morant and a few more extensions coming up. I can't definitely see them overpaying on a short term deal tho. Maybe even front load a crazy amount in year one ( not sure if that's still legal).

Why? He is a proven commodity. I get the total cap management thing but consider the downside risk. What other backup PG is out there that they know they can rely on because they know Ja most likely will miss 10-30 games a year. It's not like they were just .500 when Ja was down (and it's not ALL on Tyus but having your backup you know you can trust to start is HUGE).

Maybe they only give him a 3 year deal but it would have to be much higher than the MLE, no problem there and it eliminates those teams without cap space. But it also puts them in a negotiating position of him just up and leaving to a team WITH cap space and getting left with nothing and that would cost the team and franchise more than just paying him.

They are on the brink of being a long term deep playoff team and you could ruin it over signing a significant rotational player to an extra year or so at a price of just north of the MLE?

Also, raises and decreases in salary can only be either %5 or 8% annually.

I had a typo. Meant to say I can definitely see them overpaying on a short term deal. Three years, $15M, third year team option. Something along those lines. I won't dispute his importance in the rotation. But at the end of the day, he is a backup. The cap just makes it impossible to invest that much money into one position. The hope is that you find another younger, cheaper option as backup and then start the whole process over again. You pay him big now to remove the competition, but you have controls in place so you don't gunk up future transactions. Tyus feels like he's been made whole and you run it back. Who knows, if JJJ plays healthy for an entire season and gains consistency along with other internal improvements, then maybe they make an even longer run.

wargames wrote:

martin wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:

wargames wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Nalod wrote:Tyus is a on the cusp type player. Like Howard Eisley, Brandon Jennings, Mudiay, and our own ELF. There are dozens of guys like this. There are many that step up and becoming NBA talent and a window to look good and be a starter. Where does he tilt from here? Trend a bit higher and be a starter or is he a long term back up?
Is he elevated by his roster like Eisley was? Or is he ready for prime time? Im sure he wants a 4 year starter money deal and the chance to have security and lead a team with along term deal. who would not.

Don't forget Cam Payton, who had a big time dropoff after extending with the Sun's last season.

Exactly, plus the Grizzlies have three first round picks and they are maxing Ja. I don’t think they will want to over pay Tyus. The Knicks have a chance, and even Tyus was talking about wanting to be a starter in his last interview. I actually like him on the Knicks because he plays defense, shoots the 3 and is smart. We desperately need that next to Randle if he is going to be effective again.

The thinking is that Tyus would rather take a salary that starts at the MLE $10M over 4 max years to maybe start on a team that didn't make the playoffs instead of MORE than $10M at a possible 5 year deal to be on a team that is on the cusp of getting to finals but be a backup?

I think if you switch teams you can only get 5% increase vs 8% increase if you stay on current team.

Tyus is going to leave > $14M on the table just to start on a much crappier team? Cause that's the difference.

Also, Tyus is 27, this may be his last opportunity at a big contract in his pro career. Literally his last chance to get his big payday.

His mama or gf or wife gonna slap him silly if he don't just demand the most from the Grizz. That's real life.

I'm not sure Griz go long-term on Tyus. They have Morant and a few more extensions coming up. I can't definitely see them overpaying on a short term deal tho. Maybe even front load a crazy amount in year one ( not sure if that's still legal).

Why? He is a proven commodity. I get the total cap management thing but consider the downside risk. What other backup PG is out there that they know they can rely on because they know Ja most likely will miss 10-30 games a year. It's not like they were just .500 when Ja was down (and it's not ALL on Tyus but having your backup you know you can trust to start is HUGE).

Maybe they only give him a 3 year deal but it would have to be much higher than the MLE, no problem there and it eliminates those teams without cap space. But it also puts them in a negotiating position of him just up and leaving to a team WITH cap space and getting left with nothing and that would cost the team and franchise more than just paying him.

They are on the brink of being a long term deep playoff team and you could ruin it over signing a significant rotational player to an extra year or so at a price of just north of the MLE?

Also, raises and decreases in salary can only be either %5 or 8% annually.

I had a typo. Meant to say I can definitely see them overpaying on a short term deal. Three years, $15M, third year team option. Something along those lines. I won't dispute his importance in the rotation. But at the end of the day, he is a backup. The cap just makes it impossible to invest that much money into one position. The hope is that you find another younger, cheaper option as backup and then start the whole process over again. You pay him big now to remove the competition, but you have controls in place so you don't gunk up future transactions. Tyus feels like he's been made whole and you run it back. Who knows, if JJJ plays healthy for an entire season and gains consistency along with other internal improvements, then maybe they make an even longer run.

The one thing to consider and what teams know: The cap will explode again in like 2-3 years when the NBA gets their new TV deal. It's going to happen, just a when thing.

Flipside the Knicks can move contracts to get into the 15 Mil range. Trade dumping, waiving, and stretching the combination of Burks, Noel, Taj, and Kemba would give them that amount of space. They have Mitch’s bird rights so their wouldn’t be a penalty.

Also it’s a bit taboo… but the Knicks could sign and trade rose for him as well. Basically clearing the glut at PG (Rokas is still out there) and promoting IQ as do the Knicks 6th man.

I mean they maybe COULD do that but none of it make sense, so they wouldn't.

Philc1 wrote:

wargames wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

wargames wrote:I think the FO won’t retool significantly. We’re not contenders but that is ok when the core is young. I expect them to fix the leaks, tighten the depth, and continue to build a war chest of young talent. I am far from a Randle fan, but I also don’t think they move him or Mitch. Grab a reliable PG like Tyus, get a vet who can mentor the wings like Hayward. Pay Mitch because he can defend the perimeter and go into year three of a rebuild. I think they can push for the playoffs again if they do that because it would fix their defense.

Agree on all points except I think we get a different veteran PG. Tyus will want too much money

You might be right… I just hope the Allure of being a starter is enough. Knicks could offer him a 3 year player option MLE and if he shows and proves he would get more money on the next contract I. Two years than what he’ll get backing up Ja.

Think of guys Like Lowry and Dragic who were initially backups, but took chances on themselves becoming starters and got paid.

The problem with signing Tyus is we don’t even have any assets that Memphis would want in a sign and trade. They already have a defensive Center. Their wing players are better than guys like Burks and EF

After the playoffs I doubt even Dallas does the much rumored Knicks fan fiction sign and trade of Mitch and picks for Brunson. And that Randle for Brunson trade scenario? There’s no way

There is little probablity given the complexities of signing and trades than the simple arrogance of fan fiction which you fail to recognize on yourself.

But there is one thing to all of this and thats Dallas needs a rim. Protector if they think aspire to advance. They can’t stop Warriors. Warriors are deep and playing great. Dallas got a bit lucky to get PHX vulnerable as they were. We also got to see Michyel Bridges offensive limitations and think how it would not have worked if we drafted him. PHX went as far as PG3 could take them and he broke down again.
Warriors are healthy and Dallas has no answers. If they want to advance then need more. That makes Brunson expendable. They can go in many directions not with Knicks too.

It would seem Magic winning the draft would let MoBamba walk. They got lucky in the draft and they still have Jonathon Issac under big bucks. If they can get him back on the court with Jabari Smith that could be very powerful. Another team in the east on the rise perhaps?

Last season we no doubt had some issues but a stronger pool of teams in the east kept us from the play in games which at best was what pundits had predicted.

Bing Bong: Seems the loyal fan wishes did not jive with the reality and thus were crushed.
PHX booed their team game 7. IT happens. Yes, Randle should have handled it better. Lets be real, he gave thumbs down and we came back and beat the celtics. That game BTW was the last blown lead Celts gave and that was a turning point for them.
Randle then told a reporter to STFU>. not fans.

Nalod wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

wargames wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

wargames wrote:I think the FO won’t retool significantly. We’re not contenders but that is ok when the core is young. I expect them to fix the leaks, tighten the depth, and continue to build a war chest of young talent. I am far from a Randle fan, but I also don’t think they move him or Mitch. Grab a reliable PG like Tyus, get a vet who can mentor the wings like Hayward. Pay Mitch because he can defend the perimeter and go into year three of a rebuild. I think they can push for the playoffs again if they do that because it would fix their defense.

Agree on all points except I think we get a different veteran PG. Tyus will want too much money

You might be right… I just hope the Allure of being a starter is enough. Knicks could offer him a 3 year player option MLE and if he shows and proves he would get more money on the next contract I. Two years than what he’ll get backing up Ja.

Think of guys Like Lowry and Dragic who were initially backups, but took chances on themselves becoming starters and got paid.

The problem with signing Tyus is we don’t even have any assets that Memphis would want in a sign and trade. They already have a defensive Center. Their wing players are better than guys like Burks and EF

After the playoffs I doubt even Dallas does the much rumored Knicks fan fiction sign and trade of Mitch and picks for Brunson. And that Randle for Brunson trade scenario? There’s no way

There is little probablity given the complexities of signing and trades than the simple arrogance of fan fiction which you fail to recognize on yourself.

But there is one thing to all of this and thats Dallas needs a rim. Protector if they think aspire to advance. They can’t stop Warriors. Warriors are deep and playing great. Dallas got a bit lucky to get PHX vulnerable as they were. We also got to see Michyel Bridges offensive limitations and think how it would not have worked if we drafted him. PHX went as far as PG3 could take them and he broke down again.
Warriors are healthy and Dallas has no answers. If they want to advance then need more. That makes Brunson expendable. They can go in many directions not with Knicks too.

It would seem Magic winning the draft would let MoBamba walk. They got lucky in the draft and they still have Jonathon Issac under big bucks. If they can get him back on the court with Jabari Smith that could be very powerful. Another team in the east on the rise perhaps?

Last season we no doubt had some issues but a stronger pool of teams in the east kept us from the play in games which at best was what pundits had predicted.

Bing Bong: Seems the loyal fan wishes did not jive with the reality and thus were crushed.
PHX booed their team game 7. IT happens. Yes, Randle should have handled it better. Lets be real, he gave thumbs down and we came back and beat the celtics. That game BTW was the last blown lead Celts gave and that was a turning point for them.
Randle then told a reporter to STFU>. not fans.

I think Isaac is a candidate to be movedas well. With Wagner and whoever they tap in the top 3, Isaac would probably be redundant. And he's never on the court. Of course, moving Isaac might be easier said than done.