[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

2 things this front office can do short of landing a superstar
Author Thread
Vmart
Posts: 31800
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 5/23/2002
Member: #247
USA
4/13/2022  7:54 PM
Two things management should consider.
First thing they need to do is purge the vets. This is a step necessary to keep Thibs from making boneheaded lineups that feature vets that will lead the team to nowhere.
Second management need to rid themselves of Randle, Fournier, Rose. Send them to the Lakers for Westbrook and their first overall pick, buy Westbrook out. This way Thibs doesn’t have that temptation to go vet on us.
AUTOADVERT
martin
Posts: 76020
Alba Posts: 108
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
4/13/2022  9:04 PM
Vmart wrote:Two things management should consider.
First thing they need to do is purge the vets. This is a step necessary to keep Thibs from making boneheaded lineups that feature vets that will lead the team to nowhere.
Second management need to rid themselves of Randle, Fournier, Rose. Send them to the Lakers for Westbrook and their first overall pick, buy Westbrook out. This way Thibs doesn’t have that temptation to go vet on us.

First thing, get rid of the vets. Second thing, get rid of the other vets.

Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
Jmpasq
Posts: 25243
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 4/10/2012
Member: #4182

4/14/2022  6:51 AM    LAST EDITED: 4/14/2022  6:53 AM
This season was an unmitigated disaster. We finished in the worst spot in the NBA. The best team not to make the playoffs. Yeah, we have our picks, but who cares. The best players will be off the board by the time the Knicks pick. I would blow it up and trade for Westbrook, but there seems to be no chance of that happening. With the team capped out look for another season where .500 and a loss in the play in is the best outcome. I see no way of improving the team outside of hoping for the youth to make big strides
Check out My NFL Draft Prospect Videos at Youtube User Pages Jmpasq,JPdraftjedi,Jmpasqdraftjedi. www.Draftbreakdown.com
ESOMKnicks
Posts: 21420
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/14/2015
Member: #6064

4/14/2022  7:16 AM    LAST EDITED: 4/14/2022  7:18 AM
Vmart wrote:Two things management should consider.
First thing they need to do is purge the vets. This is a step necessary to keep Thibs from making boneheaded lineups that feature vets that will lead the team to nowhere.
Second management need to rid themselves of Randle, Fournier, Rose. Send them to the Lakers for Westbrook and their first overall pick, buy Westbrook out. This way Thibs doesn’t have that temptation to go vet on us.

Moving players to save the team's coach from making stupid game lineup decisions is like the tail wagging the dog. If the coach makes wrong decisions - start by changing the coach. That is not to say that I am advocating for replacing Thibs, just looking at the situation from a common sense perspective.

In theory, the head coach and the front office need to be on the same page regarding player personnel, and work together on any player moves. Probably too novel an idea for the Knicks.

Nalod
Posts: 71085
Alba Posts: 155
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
4/14/2022  7:51 AM
Fan be like:

“Hire a coach that will use hindsight time travel to better understand what fans learn over time, then correct those mistakes and coach the team with the conceptual better results. Also, its good to hire a coach that has no name. If he does, he must replicate his past attributes with the new team otherwise why hire him?”

Keep Mike Woodson in a glass box and break open in case of emergency.

TripleThreat
Posts: 23106
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 2/24/2012
Member: #3997

4/14/2022  8:23 AM
Knixkik wrote:2 things this front office can do short of landing a superstar


Two things this front office could have done, specifically Leon Rose

1) The hard line stance taken with Bullock should have been the exact same hard line stance taken against Rose, Burks, Noel and to some degree Randle. And the same with Kemba Walker and Evan Fournier.

I.E. We are happy to have you as a bargain, but there's a price point where we will just wish you well on your journey elsewhere. This prevents death by multiple Middle Class Contracts. Guys who eat minutes in front of your young players and draftees and are proving difficult to impossible to trade.

2) As I suggested prior to last off season, "rent" out all that open cap space. Take in a bad contract or two and reap in some young players and draft assets for the trouble. That way all Thibs has on his roster are young players and draftees and has no choice but to play them. The team can get to the cap floor, still rebuild it's asset base and learn what the young player can or cannot give them long term.

You don't create a practical environment for young players by handing out a **** ton of MCCs to fringier type veterans that block their minutes while the team is coached by a guy who tends to lean on his veterans more often than not.

Leon Rose can't bitch about Thibs not giving young players burn if he's saddling this roster with an endless number of veterans who chew up cap space, minutes, arguably can't really help this team win consistently and are going to be tough to trade off.

Knicks could have swallowed up a John Wall or a Westbrook or a Davis Bertans or something like that and had more draft picks to show for it. And let's get real here, Brock Aller is doing a good job mining assets in the back of the draft.

Look at the Grizzlies. They are doing a great job mining value players from the back of the draft and in UDFA, but they also aren't blocking those guys with a ton of veteran contracts in front of them. Sure they are taking in a few "bad contracts" but hope those guys can offer some usefulness or some roles, but they aren't getting in their own way.

Dolan just needs to have a "brand name" like this was some dumbass fashion show. It has to be Phil Jackson or a Leon Rose. Who gives a ****. Find a guy like Troy Weaver or a guy like Brock Aller, a young grinder versed in how modern front offices need to work and operate, and give them full control over the team and get out of the way.

martin
Posts: 76020
Alba Posts: 108
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
4/14/2022  9:30 AM    LAST EDITED: 4/14/2022  9:40 AM
TripleThreat wrote:
Knixkik wrote:2 things this front office can do short of landing a superstar


Two things this front office could have done, specifically Leon Rose

1) The hard line stance taken with Bullock should have been the exact same hard line stance taken against Rose, Burks, Noel and to some degree Randle. And the same with Kemba Walker and Evan Fournier.

I.E. We are happy to have you as a bargain, but there's a price point where we will just wish you well on your journey elsewhere. This prevents death by multiple Middle Class Contracts. Guys who eat minutes in front of your young players and draftees and are proving difficult to impossible to trade.

2) As I suggested prior to last off season, "rent" out all that open cap space. Take in a bad contract or two and reap in some young players and draft assets for the trouble. That way all Thibs has on his roster are young players and draftees and has no choice but to play them. The team can get to the cap floor, still rebuild it's asset base and learn what the young player can or cannot give them long term.

You don't create a practical environment for young players by handing out a **** ton of MCCs to fringier type veterans that block their minutes while the team is coached by a guy who tends to lean on his veterans more often than not.

Leon Rose can't bitch about Thibs not giving young players burn if he's saddling this roster with an endless number of veterans who chew up cap space, minutes, arguably can't really help this team win consistently and are going to be tough to trade off.

Knicks could have swallowed up a John Wall or a Westbrook or a Davis Bertans or something like that and had more draft picks to show for it. And let's get real here, Brock Aller is doing a good job mining assets in the back of the draft.

Look at the Grizzlies. They are doing a great job mining value players from the back of the draft and in UDFA, but they also aren't blocking those guys with a ton of veteran contracts in front of them. Sure they are taking in a few "bad contracts" but hope those guys can offer some usefulness or some roles, but they aren't getting in their own way.

Dolan just needs to have a "brand name" like this was some dumbass fashion show. It has to be Phil Jackson or a Leon Rose. Who gives a ****. Find a guy like Troy Weaver or a guy like Brock Aller, a young grinder versed in how modern front offices need to work and operate, and give them full control over the team and get out of the way.

The rent of cap space failed as a strategy. OKC team salary is $80M as we speak and they got nothing for that space to rent. If the Knicks went that direction, it would have been 2 teams competing for the same thing - didn't work the previous year for the Knicks and they chose a different direction.

Knicks had and made decision at the end of last season after going Linsanity-light: Do we bring back these guys or do we **** on both the team and the fans after the miracle season they just had.

For me, it was a Lose-Lose-Win situation and they went with rolling it back and offered 2 year deals with a 3 year option for everyone (except Fournier). They may have even offered Bullock the same deal but he got a better 2.5 year guarantee from Dallas.

Lose-Lose-Win cause the FO most likely knew they overachieved. You don't bring back the guys, you **** on the fans and the fans **** on you ALL SEASON. You bring back the guys knowing they overachieved, and you know it's mostly likely a lose/underperform situation. There was a tiny shot as getting past .500 and into playoffs quite frankly (the win scenario). Lose-Lose-Win.

But they gave themselves a tiny out with the 2 year deals. They got a couple of vets who they need to keep at value who would be expiring. Will Rose, Burks, Noel, Kemba have any value at next year deadline or as trade parts this offseason? Kemba, hard no. Noel, prob no. Rose and Burks only if Knicks start strong this upcoming season.

Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
Philc1
Posts: 28292
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 9/2/2020
Member: #8897

4/14/2022  10:58 AM
Jmpasq wrote:This season was an unmitigated disaster. We finished in the worst spot in the NBA. The best team not to make the playoffs. Yeah, we have our picks, but who cares. The best players will be off the board by the time the Knicks pick. I would blow it up and trade for Westbrook, but there seems to be no chance of that happening. With the team capped out look for another season where .500 and a loss in the play in is the best outcome. I see no way of improving the team outside of hoping for the youth to make big strides

You do realize Donovan Mitchell was drafted 13th overall? Giannis was drafted 15th. The days of 1-2 player nba drafts are long gone

Philc1
Posts: 28292
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 9/2/2020
Member: #8897

4/14/2022  11:06 AM    LAST EDITED: 4/14/2022  11:07 AM
martin wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:
Knixkik wrote:2 things this front office can do short of landing a superstar


Two things this front office could have done, specifically Leon Rose

1) The hard line stance taken with Bullock should have been the exact same hard line stance taken against Rose, Burks, Noel and to some degree Randle. And the same with Kemba Walker and Evan Fournier.

I.E. We are happy to have you as a bargain, but there's a price point where we will just wish you well on your journey elsewhere. This prevents death by multiple Middle Class Contracts. Guys who eat minutes in front of your young players and draftees and are proving difficult to impossible to trade.

2) As I suggested prior to last off season, "rent" out all that open cap space. Take in a bad contract or two and reap in some young players and draft assets for the trouble. That way all Thibs has on his roster are young players and draftees and has no choice but to play them. The team can get to the cap floor, still rebuild it's asset base and learn what the young player can or cannot give them long term.

You don't create a practical environment for young players by handing out a **** ton of MCCs to fringier type veterans that block their minutes while the team is coached by a guy who tends to lean on his veterans more often than not.

Leon Rose can't bitch about Thibs not giving young players burn if he's saddling this roster with an endless number of veterans who chew up cap space, minutes, arguably can't really help this team win consistently and are going to be tough to trade off.

Knicks could have swallowed up a John Wall or a Westbrook or a Davis Bertans or something like that and had more draft picks to show for it. And let's get real here, Brock Aller is doing a good job mining assets in the back of the draft.

Look at the Grizzlies. They are doing a great job mining value players from the back of the draft and in UDFA, but they also aren't blocking those guys with a ton of veteran contracts in front of them. Sure they are taking in a few "bad contracts" but hope those guys can offer some usefulness or some roles, but they aren't getting in their own way.

Dolan just needs to have a "brand name" like this was some dumbass fashion show. It has to be Phil Jackson or a Leon Rose. Who gives a ****. Find a guy like Troy Weaver or a guy like Brock Aller, a young grinder versed in how modern front offices need to work and operate, and give them full control over the team and get out of the way.

The rent of cap space failed as a strategy. OKC team salary is $80M as we speak and they got nothing for that space to rent. If the Knicks went that direction, it would have been 2 teams competing for the same thing - didn't work the previous year for the Knicks and they chose a different direction.

Knicks had and made decision at the end of last season after going Linsanity-light: Do we bring back these guys or do we **** on both the team and the fans after the miracle season they just had.

For me, it was a Lose-Lose-Win situation and they went with rolling it back and offered 2 year deals with a 3 year option for everyone (except Fournier). They may have even offered Bullock the same deal but he got a better 2.5 year guarantee from Dallas.

Lose-Lose-Win cause the FO most likely knew they overachieved. You don't bring back the guys, you **** on the fans and the fans **** on you ALL SEASON. You bring back the guys knowing they overachieved, and you know it's mostly likely a lose/underperform situation. There was a tiny shot as getting past .500 and into playoffs quite frankly (the win scenario). Lose-Lose-Win.

But they gave themselves a tiny out with the 2 year deals. They got a couple of vets who they need to keep at value who would be expiring. Will Rose, Burks, Noel, Kemba have any value at next year deadline or as trade parts this offseason? Kemba, hard no. Noel, prob no. Rose and Burks only if Knicks start strong this upcoming season.

They panicked and did an Isiah Thomas by prematurely extending Randle for another 4 years $117 million just because we finally had some success. Literally doing nothing would have been a way better move. Yes we should be under the cap by 2023 but by then we have to lock up younger players who are better for our team chemistry going forward like RJ, IQ, Obi, and Sims (who we are extending this summer). And unless we get lucky and get a top 3 pick to draft Ivey Rose is going to sign a pg this summer


No free agent superstar is ever coming here. This new generation is too mentally weak. Too many Kevin Durants. All we can do is build the old fashioned way through the draft and signing mid level players

gradyandrew
Posts: 22403
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 5/19/2021
Member: #8959

4/14/2022  11:08 AM
Jmpasq wrote:This season was an unmitigated disaster. We finished in the worst spot in the NBA. The best team not to make the playoffs. Yeah, we have our picks, but who cares. The best players will be off the board by the time the Knicks pick. I would blow it up and trade for Westbrook, but there seems to be no chance of that happening. With the team capped out look for another season where .500 and a loss in the play in is the best outcome. I see no way of improving the team outside of hoping for the youth to make big strides

The Lakers season was an unmitigated disaster. Even healthy they never clicked, the locker room pointed fingers all season, the coach is fired, and they have?no way to pay the player they developed (Monk).

The Knicks had lots of mitigations!

They went 3-8 against the Thunder Magic and Indiana. This was just a ****ty mental attitude.

Rose was injured most of the season.

The easy stretch was wasted hoping Kemba would get up to speed.

I don't get the hand wringing here- the Knicks took a gamble on Kemba and lost- it happens. Mid season they decided instead of making a trade, wait a little longer for the package of 2023 expiring and picks to look better. They traded Knox and a highly protected pick for Cam. Also a gamble, but a smart one. The Knicks don't need a high pick- they need a starting PG.

gradyandrew
Posts: 22403
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 5/19/2021
Member: #8959

4/14/2022  11:15 AM
Martin has made this point before and it's a good?one. Anyone acting like the contracts for Noel Burks Rose and Randle were mistakes needs to pull up some old quotes. I'm sorry but I don't take your word that you thought they were mistakes at the time. Saying Rose and Noel's contracts suck when they were injured all year is shooting fish in a barrel. I think Vegas had new York at 45 wins before the season. Not really too far off.
Philc1
Posts: 28292
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 9/2/2020
Member: #8897

4/14/2022  11:17 AM
gradyandrew wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:This season was an unmitigated disaster. We finished in the worst spot in the NBA. The best team not to make the playoffs. Yeah, we have our picks, but who cares. The best players will be off the board by the time the Knicks pick. I would blow it up and trade for Westbrook, but there seems to be no chance of that happening. With the team capped out look for another season where .500 and a loss in the play in is the best outcome. I see no way of improving the team outside of hoping for the youth to make big strides

The Lakers season was an unmitigated disaster. Even healthy they never clicked, the locker room pointed fingers all season, the coach is fired, and they have?no way to pay the player they developed (Monk).

The Knicks had lots of mitigations!

They went 3-8 against the Thunder Magic and Indiana. This was just a ****ty mental attitude.

Rose was injured most of the season.

The easy stretch was wasted hoping Kemba would get up to speed.

I don't get the hand wringing here- the Knicks took a gamble on Kemba and lost- it happens. Mid season they decided instead of making a trade, wait a little longer for the package of 2023 expiring and picks to look better. They traded Knox and a highly protected pick for Cam. Also a gamble, but a smart one. The Knicks don't need a high pick- they need a starting PG.

5 years ago I would have loved to see a young core win 37 games now it’s a “disaster”


Just get a freakin pg, we’ll be in the playoffs next season

Knixkik
Posts: 35411
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #11
USA
4/18/2022  9:25 PM
Brunsons cost this summer is going up by the minute.
TPercy
Posts: 28010
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 2/5/2014
Member: #5748

4/18/2022  10:35 PM
Brunson fans got a mad boner rn. Got 36 and is keeping this dallas team in this game
The Future is Bright!
ESOMKnicks
Posts: 21420
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/14/2015
Member: #6064

4/19/2022  5:13 AM
Philc1 wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:This season was an unmitigated disaster. We finished in the worst spot in the NBA. The best team not to make the playoffs. Yeah, we have our picks, but who cares. The best players will be off the board by the time the Knicks pick. I would blow it up and trade for Westbrook, but there seems to be no chance of that happening. With the team capped out look for another season where .500 and a loss in the play in is the best outcome. I see no way of improving the team outside of hoping for the youth to make big strides

You do realize Donovan Mitchell was drafted 13th overall? Giannis was drafted 15th. The days of 1-2 player nba drafts are long gone

Yes, but the odds of drafting a star player at #1 are still better than at #11.

Knixkik
Posts: 35411
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #11
USA
4/19/2022  7:58 AM
TPercy wrote:Brunson fans got a mad boner rn. Got 36 and is keeping this dallas team in this game

He’s going to keep them in this series by himself it seems.

Philc1
Posts: 28292
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 9/2/2020
Member: #8897

4/19/2022  9:11 AM    LAST EDITED: 4/19/2022  9:12 AM
ESOMKnicks wrote:
Philc1 wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:This season was an unmitigated disaster. We finished in the worst spot in the NBA. The best team not to make the playoffs. Yeah, we have our picks, but who cares. The best players will be off the board by the time the Knicks pick. I would blow it up and trade for Westbrook, but there seems to be no chance of that happening. With the team capped out look for another season where .500 and a loss in the play in is the best outcome. I see no way of improving the team outside of hoping for the youth to make big strides

You do realize Donovan Mitchell was drafted 13th overall? Giannis was drafted 15th. The days of 1-2 player nba drafts are long gone

Yes, but the odds of drafting a star player at #1 are still better than at #11.

Yeah but look at how many #1 picks have busted hard over the years. Olowokandi, Anthony Bennett, Kwame Brown, Greg Oden, Markell’s Fultz. Even more recent guys who aren’t considered busts but have underwhelmed like Blake Griffin, Karl Anthony Towns. Even Zion I think is dangerously close to bust status

Nalod
Posts: 71085
Alba Posts: 155
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
4/19/2022  12:18 PM
Philc1 wrote:
ESOMKnicks wrote:
Philc1 wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:This season was an unmitigated disaster. We finished in the worst spot in the NBA. The best team not to make the playoffs. Yeah, we have our picks, but who cares. The best players will be off the board by the time the Knicks pick. I would blow it up and trade for Westbrook, but there seems to be no chance of that happening. With the team capped out look for another season where .500 and a loss in the play in is the best outcome. I see no way of improving the team outside of hoping for the youth to make big strides

You do realize Donovan Mitchell was drafted 13th overall? Giannis was drafted 15th. The days of 1-2 player nba drafts are long gone

Yes, but the odds of drafting a star player at #1 are still better than at #11.

Yeah but look at how many #1 picks have busted hard over the years. Olowokandi, Anthony Bennett, Kwame Brown, Greg Oden, Markell’s Fultz. Even more recent guys who aren’t considered busts but have underwhelmed like Blake Griffin, Karl Anthony Towns. Even Zion I think is dangerously close to bust status

Good point.
Also, not tanking is important. Knicks did not and played the yoot over time. Those minutes were super valuable and raised their value on the court and as trade fodder if need be.
I don’t know how this all shakes out but Knicks turned the season around after a bad 3-13 stretch to the degree the coach responded to the players and the players responded in kind.
There is and will be a trade to make sense of what is becoming a crowded Roster.

fishmike
Posts: 53803
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
4/19/2022  1:00 PM
Knixkik wrote:
TPercy wrote:Brunson fans got a mad boner rn. Got 36 and is keeping this dallas team in this game

He’s going to keep them in this series by himself it seems.

you need a jar of vaseline and a Brunson poster
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
jrodmc
Posts: 32927
Alba Posts: 50
Joined: 11/24/2004
Member: #805
USA
4/19/2022  1:24 PM
fishmike wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
TPercy wrote:Brunson fans got a mad boner rn. Got 36 and is keeping this dallas team in this game

He’s going to keep them in this series by himself it seems.

you need a jar of vaseline and a Brunson poster


If Leon gets Brunson somehow, are you leaving next season?

2 things this front office can do short of landing a superstar

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy