As for Him going forward, none of this would close the door in my opinion as a fan. I think expectations for his continued progress set him up to fail. Last year was special. This year is anything but.
Look at us, we all expected over .500 and for many we were destined to improve on 4th seeding no matter what the ESPN/media haters said. Who do we take it out on and exact BLAME.........Randle and Thibs.

Nalod wrote:Pain makes me grumpy.
My Mom Dying made me Grumpy.
Im my loins are tight, I get grumpy.
I'd be grumpy if BING BONG stoners booed me. Not saying its right.

As for Him going forward, none of this would close the door in my opinion as a fan. I think expectations for his continued progress set him up to fail. Last year was special. This year is anything but.
Look at us, we all expected over .500 and for many we were destined to improve on 4th seeding no matter what the ESPN/media haters said. Who do we take it out on and exact BLAME.........Randle and Thibs.

I blame Wally

gradyandrew wrote:

martin wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:I think the issue Randle has is just how quickly the fans in New York turn on guys. Other places fans are disinterested but New York fans will jeer the home team. I get why players sour on it.

Julius's assists per game over the past 3 seasons are: 3/6/5~ he's still moving the ball.
In some ways Julius has been more of a leader than Melo was. He might be the biggest leader since Marbury.

Trading Randle would be disastrous for the team's culture and record. If the Knicks can lock up Mitchell, most of the roster is set outside of PG. What can the Knicks expect from Kemba, Rose, And Noel?

If we trade Randle it means we will rebuild so should trade Randle and Fournier to LAL for Westbrook.

Have you played team ball or been part of an organization where leadership is actually a thing?

You are a stat guy and you will need to read and watch beyond raw numbers to get a better understanding of basketball and team performance.

The bold leads me to believe there is a ton of growth and data to human interpretation that needs a ton more experience.

Something happened last season as awesome as Linsanity- out of nowhere Randle became a really good player. We all saw it, the holdover guys had front row seats. Trading Randle for pennies on the dollar would be waving the white flag- why not try to capture that lightning in the bottle again? Better just to keep our expirings and move Randle and Fournier for Westbrook.

You're equating Randle shooting well last season to the magic that was (briefly) Linsanity? Linsanity was about selflessness whereas Randle (this season) seems mostly about himself. I'll give you last season because he did overperform, play harder and we did improve significantly... but any fan could see it wasn't sustainable and that Randle still possessed these infuriating habits/behaviors (eg holding the ball, spinovers, arguing with officials, sensitive when fouled, fadeaways after dribbling too much).

We've now had 3 full seasons to evaluate Randle and we should be able to agree that he was very good last season (peak) and was underwhelming the other two seasons. At this point the rest of the team is playing at a different pace (faster). We are not a good team when he plays and dominates the ball. He appears disinterested, displays poor body language and keeps getting into it with fans, officials, other players. I can't understand thinking that he may regain last season's form is a)likely and b) worth the risk of keeping him next season. His attitude appears pour/pouty and we have a team full of mostly young players. And remember last season when Randle was at his peak - we almost were swept by the Hawks and Randle's play was possibly the worst statistical shutdown of a non-scrub player most of us have ever seen. I agree about pennies on the dollar but the fact that the rest of the league may only offer that should be another reason we really shouldn't keep him.

gradyandrew wrote:

martin wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:I think the issue Randle has is just how quickly the fans in New York turn on guys. Other places fans are disinterested but New York fans will jeer the home team. I get why players sour on it.

Julius's assists per game over the past 3 seasons are: 3/6/5~ he's still moving the ball.
In some ways Julius has been more of a leader than Melo was. He might be the biggest leader since Marbury.

Trading Randle would be disastrous for the team's culture and record. If the Knicks can lock up Mitchell, most of the roster is set outside of PG. What can the Knicks expect from Kemba, Rose, And Noel?

If we trade Randle it means we will rebuild so should trade Randle and Fournier to LAL for Westbrook.

Have you played team ball or been part of an organization where leadership is actually a thing?

You are a stat guy and you will need to read and watch beyond raw numbers to get a better understanding of basketball and team performance.

The bold leads me to believe there is a ton of growth and data to human interpretation that needs a ton more experience.

Something happened last season as awesome as Linsanity- out of nowhere Randle became a really good player. We all saw it, the holdover guys had front row seats. Trading Randle for pennies on the dollar would be waving the white flag- why not try to capture that lightning in the bottle again? Better just to keep our expirings and move Randle and Fournier for Westbrook.

I am definitely not suggesting a pennies on dollar trade or to move him in a Westbrook type deal; Knicks need to get some value for him.

But his overall style of play and the literal maintenance needed on his personality is probably exhausting for the team, and his absence would have a positive trickle effect on other players.

Randle is not a ball mover. He is a high usage guy who releases the ball at the very end of an iso play in desperation and the assist he gets are negated by the TO's he also accumulates.

franco12 wrote:

martin wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

martin wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:I think the issue Randle has is just how quickly the fans in New York turn on guys. Other places fans are disinterested but New York fans will jeer the home team. I get why players sour on it.

Julius's assists per game over the past 3 seasons are: 3/6/5~ he's still moving the ball.
In some ways Julius has been more of a leader than Melo was. He might be the biggest leader since Marbury.

Trading Randle would be disastrous for the team's culture and record. If the Knicks can lock up Mitchell, most of the roster is set outside of PG. What can the Knicks expect from Kemba, Rose, And Noel?

If we trade Randle it means we will rebuild so should trade Randle and Fournier to LAL for Westbrook.

Have you played team ball or been part of an organization where leadership is actually a thing?

You are a stat guy and you will need to read and watch beyond raw numbers to get a better understanding of basketball and team performance.

The bold leads me to believe there is a ton of growth and data to human interpretation that needs a ton more experience.

Something happened last season as awesome as Linsanity- out of nowhere Randle became a really good player. We all saw it, the holdover guys had front row seats. Trading Randle for pennies on the dollar would be waving the white flag- why not try to capture that lightning in the bottle again? Better just to keep our expirings and move Randle and Fournier for Westbrook.

I am definitely not suggesting a pennies on dollar trade or to move him in a Westbrook type deal; Knicks need to get some value for him.

But his overall style of play and the literal maintenance needed on his personality is probably exhausting for the team, and his absence would have a positive trickle effect on other players.

Randle is not a ball mover. He is a high usage guy who releases the ball at the very end of an iso play in desperation and the assist he gets are negated by the TO's he also accumulates.

I wonder if a different coach could get through to him. Perhaps that is Woodson?

He's got great skills and abilities. Being able to bully your way to points is worth something. We came up short last year because we didn't have enough weapons. We still don't, but we're close.

I think Thibs and Randle should have dinner together in the off season and try to find a way to meet heart to heart. They are both high driven people. We forget we're dealing with people and personalities- I know I do.

And they both need to take a chill pill! We don't need Randle to play big minutes or score at the same volume. He could easily become our Charles Oakley or Larry Johnson player. Where we have a role, and it's toughness on both sides of the ball. Give me 15 & 10 with energy and strong shooting from 3.

Randle has had his favorite coach in the world on the bench with him for the past 2 years just up until recently.

There is just no doubt in my mind that Thibs and every coach on the staff has told him everything he needs to know - it's the same stuff we fans EASILY see and we don't even review video with Randle on a daily basis. It's obvious.

Randle gotta fix the Randle problems IMHO. Not for nothing, but most of it is mental. Play with effort. Don't do the iso thing. Move the ball, don't hold it. Stop complaining on every play. If you are wide open, shoot; stop it already with the pump and side set while letting the defender get closer to you. Randle is literally making like most every shot he is taking much harder with his moves.

If Randle has blocked out the voices of the coaching staff, it's time to move him.

gradyandrew wrote:Randle's play last season closing quarters was fantastic. My feeling is 20/10/5 guys are pretty rare in the NBA. Randle/ Fournier/ Mitchell/ RJ are a solid group. They are just missing a PG. Maybe IQ is the guy, maybe Rose. Maybe they find him this offseason.

But if you remove Randle, you might as well trade everyone not on a rookie deal. Maybe keep Robinson. Trade Fournier and Randle for Westbrook and hope for a CP in OKC Renaissance. Hold on to Burks Noel and Rose and then release them before the summer. Dangle RJ in a sign and trade and recruit the next Big 3.

I get the move Fournier because of the defense, but expecting Westkook to do a CP3? That's straining anyone's reality. And CP3 doesn't remind anyone of the Glove, but Westbrook's D certainly moves Fournier in that direction.

Philc1 wrote:Randle has arguably the NBA’s worst contract, he’s going to be here minimum 2 more seasons

Can you at least out of respect for others not propagate incorrect facts?
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/new-york-knicks/julius-randle-15359/

He is and will remain outside the top tier of paid players. Ranked 45the his year and projected 41st next and thats likely to change as many players get raises and new contracts to off set expiring.

He is under contract for 4 more years actually.
He is 29th in scoring. While pts per game is not the end all, he is ahead of some that make more, and behind some others.

We can go on and on, but your talking subjective opinon and thats ok, but he does not have the worst contract.
Look **** up and see if you can find guys making millions more. LIke Westbrook? Wiggins, McCollum, John Wall, Kevin Love, Tobias Harris, Siakim, Middleton, KP, G. Haywood, Heild, John Collins,…………Thats just off the top of my head.

martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:

martin wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

martin wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:I think the issue Randle has is just how quickly the fans in New York turn on guys. Other places fans are disinterested but New York fans will jeer the home team. I get why players sour on it.

Julius's assists per game over the past 3 seasons are: 3/6/5~ he's still moving the ball.
In some ways Julius has been more of a leader than Melo was. He might be the biggest leader since Marbury.

Trading Randle would be disastrous for the team's culture and record. If the Knicks can lock up Mitchell, most of the roster is set outside of PG. What can the Knicks expect from Kemba, Rose, And Noel?

If we trade Randle it means we will rebuild so should trade Randle and Fournier to LAL for Westbrook.

Have you played team ball or been part of an organization where leadership is actually a thing?

You are a stat guy and you will need to read and watch beyond raw numbers to get a better understanding of basketball and team performance.

The bold leads me to believe there is a ton of growth and data to human interpretation that needs a ton more experience.

Something happened last season as awesome as Linsanity- out of nowhere Randle became a really good player. We all saw it, the holdover guys had front row seats. Trading Randle for pennies on the dollar would be waving the white flag- why not try to capture that lightning in the bottle again? Better just to keep our expirings and move Randle and Fournier for Westbrook.

I am definitely not suggesting a pennies on dollar trade or to move him in a Westbrook type deal; Knicks need to get some value for him.

But his overall style of play and the literal maintenance needed on his personality is probably exhausting for the team, and his absence would have a positive trickle effect on other players.

Randle is not a ball mover. He is a high usage guy who releases the ball at the very end of an iso play in desperation and the assist he gets are negated by the TO's he also accumulates.

I wonder if a different coach could get through to him. Perhaps that is Woodson?

He's got great skills and abilities. Being able to bully your way to points is worth something. We came up short last year because we didn't have enough weapons. We still don't, but we're close.

I think Thibs and Randle should have dinner together in the off season and try to find a way to meet heart to heart. They are both high driven people. We forget we're dealing with people and personalities- I know I do.

And they both need to take a chill pill! We don't need Randle to play big minutes or score at the same volume. He could easily become our Charles Oakley or Larry Johnson player. Where we have a role, and it's toughness on both sides of the ball. Give me 15 & 10 with energy and strong shooting from 3.

Randle has had his favorite coach in the world on the bench with him for the past 2 years just up until recently.

There is just no doubt in my mind that Thibs and every coach on the staff has told him everything he needs to know - it's the same stuff we fans EASILY see and we don't even review video with Randle on a daily basis. It's obvious.

Randle gotta fix the Randle problems IMHO. Not for nothing, but most of it is mental. Play with effort. Don't do the iso thing. Move the ball, don't hold it. Stop complaining on every play. If you are wide open, shoot; stop it already with the pump and side set while letting the defender get closer to you. Randle is literally making like most every shot he is taking much harder with his moves.

If Randle has blocked out the voices of the coaching staff, it's time to move him.

I think he's most likely to turn it around here next season. All you say is true but frankly this season was cooked when Kemba and Rose were done. Not having Noel didn't help either.

Even next season starting Burks, running Rose and IQ off the bench with Grimes Noel and Cam or Obi makes me think we could be back in the playoffs.

KnickDanger wrote:Randle’s contract is hardly outrageous or untradeable. But Knicks fans always want to sell low.

So true. Generally I chalk this up to Knicks fans general histrionics as well as NY Media feeding frenzy. Randle is a decent contract for a 20/10 guy who is extremely durable, talented and strong - especially on the right team where he is paired with a star type player. I was listening to Hahn who suggested that he would be extremely effective on a team like Denver (ie something like Randle for Morris and Gordon). There are trades out there - the FO just has to work to find a partner.