Kemet wrote:After watching 46 Knicks games .. the obvious biggest problem on the ROSTER from losing games we are supposed to win are from the Knicks head coach Thibs.
Coach Thibs decision-making without assistant coach Woodson in the 2021-22 season has been pitiful!

Thibbs needs to answer this:

Rose is hurt and Kemba was out, somehow IQ’s minutes are reduced? Huh? That’s the inverse of expectation.

In a game against Boston where Fournier scores 41 pts, and the final play of the game having 1.8 sec remaining and down by 1 pt, Thibs goes to the player who been performing sloppy throughout the game, plus had his shot blocked 6 times to take the final shot. Huh? Why not set up the same screens for Fournier to take the final shot?

Excellent point. It’s like ever since thibs won COY, he’s now mistake free? His weaknesses haven’t changed much, and the same can be said about his positives on defense. But he definitely takes a lot of blame as you said. I agree. Plenty of blame to go around and Thibs as well as Leon rose is to blame. I bet if they both came out and publicly said that, it might release some pressure off Randle. I feel for him because I saw the passion in his eyes last season and how bad he wants to lead this team. But thibs rotation, minutes distribution, playing or not playing IQ. Starting Burks at PG was very weird to me. Replacing our top guard defenders with high volume inconsistent offensive players was bad. That was an Xbox move that only works on nba 2k. I agree with you on the Boston game and very weird how he’s handling IQ and Obi. I can’t seem to follow his understanding with roster management and in game situations as well.

wargames wrote:

blkexec wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Nalod wrote:Two games under .500 and then blow it up?
Not like we a 23 game winnig team. We trendig to 41-41 give or take.
One seaosn we good and now mediocrity is above some of you?
Then what, blow it up and among the smolding ashes we have picks?
Dolan protests to sell the team. He won’t.
Because its January and 2 games under .500? If last year did not happen, we’d be celebrating.
Phuckig pussies some of you are! Take a break for a few games. Relax.

Well said.
Can we bump your "Lets boo the fans" thread?
Love the lets start Deuce talk. Hope is better than reality for the desperate. No memory of the "start Obi threads"? "IQ/Burks at PG" threads.
Lets trade Randle for Westbrook talk. Cuz he will "teach' our yoots. Those saying that may want to watch the video of him walking out on Lakers in last seconds of the game.
Trade everyone proven that is struggling for a mid to low 1st talks. Cuz we have killed it with so many firsts over the years.

These fans are a bunch of crying babies. They have no actual understanding of what is needed for a pro team to gel and grow.

Nalod, I missed this post. Man, tell us how you really feel 🤣.

I think the lazy approach is to blow it up. But there’s too many old school knick fans that been there done that. What we haven’t done is what we are doing now, developing the yoots. We haven’t had anything consistent in years.

Randle and RJ have flaws? Yes. Both have heart and passion that all teams need. We put too much expectations on their shoulders. We thought last year was a stepping stone but could be an aberration or an anomaly. Maybe Randle and RJ are really #2 and #3 (or 2a and 2b) trying to learn how to be #1, on a roster that doesn’t enhance their positives, to increase their impact. I believe all players regardless of skill set, can be placed in a position to win. Especially if they made it this far to the nba.

This blow it up discussion was understood when Lebron was available. Blow it up works if NY was like LA or Miami where players are kicking and screaming to be here. In reality the days of NYC being the draw for players to come is over. Now it’s all about stability and fostering an environment for young and old players to prosper. If we continue to blow it up every year, we reduce our chances to attract the talent we need. Time to take the tradition approach that all small market teams take. Draft and develop. Leon rose did great with draft picks and gathering young talent. As we develop keep an eye out for #1 talent. Meanwhile keep making d rose type additions until we find the right formula to build on.

We are at that acceptance stage. While the majority of fans are still angry, during that little winning gap we all partook in denial.

However, while we can argue the symptoms for the collapse. I think it’s a bit simpler than that. The FO messed up the 2021 offseason (though you are right they had a really good draft). They let Elfrid walk and he was the best Point of Attack PG on the roster, they let Bullock walk and he was the best wing defender. They came into this season with 3 centers and Mitch who is the only one with reliable minutes was out of shape, Rose is injured, Kemba (who was the last PG available) plays inconsistently and doesn’t match what Thibs wants from PGs.

RJ has stepped up, Julius has not forced the issue on bad shooting nights, Thibs is giving some of the youth consistent minutes. Cam was a very savvy trade for a player who could become a starter. However, it doesn’t matter what they do. They still aren’t going to win a lot of games because for the rest of the season, this shell of last year’s team will be playing the 2nd toughest schedule league wide!

Blowing it up won’t change that fact.

A more realistic approach is Kemba and Fournier need to go to get guys who better fit what Thibs needs to run his system. Neither of those guys should be moved now because they would likely need an asset attached. Obi might need to go to reset the asset that was his draft pick for someone who can get minutes. The Knicks 21-22 season is probably going to be bad, but that doesn’t excuse the FO making the situation worse with a bad trades. Most of their assets can be more valuable this summer.

Try to rebuild upon what worked on last years team and improve on it. On the low Cam/Grimes might be a upgrade to Fournier and Bullock. Maybe grab a PG to improve on Kemba. Get some more young guys Thibs will play because they know how to do defense well. Then for 2022 - 2023 let’s go back to punching opponents in the mouth using defense and attacking then basket with outlet 3’s so out very in shape lineup can wear them out and get wins. Is it beautiful 3 pt basketball, no, but it is NY basketball. Adapting to that Hawks series set us back because the Hawks were fake contenders. Yeah we can kick Trae’s and Atlanta’s teeth in but that doesn’t mean much.

I believe you nailed it. If the Knicks playoffs series was a different outcome…….or let’s say if we had the same success against atl in the playoffs like we did during the season, Kemba or EF wouldn’t be here. This would’ve been a long thread about Payton and bullock. How they suck and they are holding us back. We would have long threads about adding kemba after ESPN shows highlights from 1 game where he played great. You nailed it man. The outcome of that series set us back.

Instead what if thibs was simply out coached? Again, coy doesn’t mean your perfect. Thibs has some growing to do as a playoff coach just like Randle does as a #1 option. Randle is new to this and we seem to forget that. The question is, how long will it take for Randle to learn? Can you teach an old dog “thibs” new tricks? Is he the right coach for this team to take that next step in 2000 (even though he’s a 1990s style coach). I’m just asking. Nobody should be blameless and everybody has something to improve on. Yet we only focus on what the media projects.

Also Leon Rose is also learning on the job. Everybody is trying to adjust and grow. Which means everybody will make mistakes along the way. It’s up to the fans to have a little grace during this time. Rose and Noel is hurt. That’s huge. Payton and bullocks defense was never replaced. That’s huge. Fans thinking Randle and RJ shooting over 40% for the first time in their career was going to be sustainable (I’m sure the fact check police will be on me with this one). The point is thibs has to take some blame. From fans expectations all the way up to Leon rose and his hiring. We are too fragile to mess with last years team and think we can repeat that magic in a bottle with a different starting lineup and critical players injured.

blkexec wrote:

wargames wrote:

blkexec wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Nalod wrote:Two games under .500 and then blow it up?
Not like we a 23 game winnig team. We trendig to 41-41 give or take.
One seaosn we good and now mediocrity is above some of you?
Then what, blow it up and among the smolding ashes we have picks?
Dolan protests to sell the team. He won’t.
Because its January and 2 games under .500? If last year did not happen, we’d be celebrating.
Phuckig pussies some of you are! Take a break for a few games. Relax.

Well said.
Can we bump your "Lets boo the fans" thread?
Love the lets start Deuce talk. Hope is better than reality for the desperate. No memory of the "start Obi threads"? "IQ/Burks at PG" threads.
Lets trade Randle for Westbrook talk. Cuz he will "teach' our yoots. Those saying that may want to watch the video of him walking out on Lakers in last seconds of the game.
Trade everyone proven that is struggling for a mid to low 1st talks. Cuz we have killed it with so many firsts over the years.

These fans are a bunch of crying babies. They have no actual understanding of what is needed for a pro team to gel and grow.

Nalod, I missed this post. Man, tell us how you really feel 🤣.

I think the lazy approach is to blow it up. But there’s too many old school knick fans that been there done that. What we haven’t done is what we are doing now, developing the yoots. We haven’t had anything consistent in years.

Randle and RJ have flaws? Yes. Both have heart and passion that all teams need. We put too much expectations on their shoulders. We thought last year was a stepping stone but could be an aberration or an anomaly. Maybe Randle and RJ are really #2 and #3 (or 2a and 2b) trying to learn how to be #1, on a roster that doesn’t enhance their positives, to increase their impact. I believe all players regardless of skill set, can be placed in a position to win. Especially if they made it this far to the nba.

This blow it up discussion was understood when Lebron was available. Blow it up works if NY was like LA or Miami where players are kicking and screaming to be here. In reality the days of NYC being the draw for players to come is over. Now it’s all about stability and fostering an environment for young and old players to prosper. If we continue to blow it up every year, we reduce our chances to attract the talent we need. Time to take the tradition approach that all small market teams take. Draft and develop. Leon rose did great with draft picks and gathering young talent. As we develop keep an eye out for #1 talent. Meanwhile keep making d rose type additions until we find the right formula to build on.

We are at that acceptance stage. While the majority of fans are still angry, during that little winning gap we all partook in denial.

However, while we can argue the symptoms for the collapse. I think it’s a bit simpler than that. The FO messed up the 2021 offseason (though you are right they had a really good draft). They let Elfrid walk and he was the best Point of Attack PG on the roster, they let Bullock walk and he was the best wing defender. They came into this season with 3 centers and Mitch who is the only one with reliable minutes was out of shape, Rose is injured, Kemba (who was the last PG available) plays inconsistently and doesn’t match what Thibs wants from PGs.

RJ has stepped up, Julius has not forced the issue on bad shooting nights, Thibs is giving some of the youth consistent minutes. Cam was a very savvy trade for a player who could become a starter. However, it doesn’t matter what they do. They still aren’t going to win a lot of games because for the rest of the season, this shell of last year’s team will be playing the 2nd toughest schedule league wide!

Blowing it up won’t change that fact.

A more realistic approach is Kemba and Fournier need to go to get guys who better fit what Thibs needs to run his system. Neither of those guys should be moved now because they would likely need an asset attached. Obi might need to go to reset the asset that was his draft pick for someone who can get minutes. The Knicks 21-22 season is probably going to be bad, but that doesn’t excuse the FO making the situation worse with a bad trades. Most of their assets can be more valuable this summer.

Try to rebuild upon what worked on last years team and improve on it. On the low Cam/Grimes might be a upgrade to Fournier and Bullock. Maybe grab a PG to improve on Kemba. Get some more young guys Thibs will play because they know how to do defense well. Then for 2022 - 2023 let’s go back to punching opponents in the mouth using defense and attacking then basket with outlet 3’s so out very in shape lineup can wear them out and get wins. Is it beautiful 3 pt basketball, no, but it is NY basketball. Adapting to that Hawks series set us back because the Hawks were fake contenders. Yeah we can kick Trae’s and Atlanta’s teeth in but that doesn’t mean much.

I believe you nailed it. If the Knicks playoffs series was a different outcome…….or let’s say if we had the same success against atl in the playoffs like we did during the season, Kemba or EF wouldn’t be here. This would’ve been a long thread about Payton and bullock. How they suck and they are holding us back. We would have long threads about adding kemba after ESPN shows highlights from 1 game where he played great. You nailed it man. The outcome of that series set us back.

Instead what if thibs was simply out coached? Again, coy doesn’t mean your perfect. Thibs has some growing to do as a playoff coach just like Randle does as a #1 option. Randle is new to this and we seem to forget that. The question is, how long will it take for Randle to learn? Can you teach an old dog “thibs” new tricks? Is he the right coach for this team to take that next step in 2000 (even though he’s a 1990s style coach). I’m just asking. Nobody should be blameless and everybody has something to improve on. Yet we only focus on what the media projects.

Also Leon Rose is also learning on the job. Everybody is trying to adjust and grow. Which means everybody will make mistakes along the way. It’s up to the fans to have a little grace during this time. Rose and Noel is hurt. That’s huge. Payton and bullocks defense was never replaced. That’s huge. Fans thinking Randle and RJ shooting over 40% for the first time in their career was going to be sustainable (I’m sure the fact check police will be on me with this one). The point is thibs has to take some blame. From fans expectations all the way up to Leon rose and his hiring. We are too fragile to mess with last years team and think we can repeat that magic in a bottle with a different starting lineup and critical players injured.

Good point. I feel like the fans should also take some of the blame.

Now that we got that out of the way, how does this actually happen? The blame taking?

ESOMKnicks wrote:

martin wrote:
Good point. I feel like the fans should also take some of the blame.

Now that we got that out of the way, how does this actually happen? The blame taking?

We can start with doing penance by taking turns baby-sitting Randle's kid, so that he can relax and focus on basketball.

Seriously, I admit that NY fans (but not only they) can be obnoxious, especially when it comes to booing inexperienced newcomers rather than giving them a bit of an advance credit of support (like with KP or DSJr, though, in retrospect, the fans' concerns proved right). But this is a different case. The season is about half gone, the early-growing pains are no longer an excuse, and the fans are right to demand some accountability for what they see on the court from the guys donning blue and orange.

I am not advocating overhauling the roster and the coaching staff, but fans don't play and they don't coach.

In all seriousness Randle seems like the type to bring this frustration home. He’s what 27? I know people at work who’s 47 and doesn’t have the same weight on their shoulders like Randle and the stress caused them to get a divorce and eventually become ill. So I hope Randle is growing from this and doesn’t let this spill over into situations outside of work. I have to remind myself these are kids and they can only handle so much. Everybody not Kobe or Lebron who came into the league at 18 with maturity and skills better than most vets. NY fans will either make you or break you. There’s no inbetween.

Take cam for a second. If he comes out today and does all the negatives fans read about, he’s going to get killed. Or if he comes in and does exactly what this team needs and we win, he will be glorified as the knick savior. After 1 game. Imagine the pressure he must feel. I’m assuming this game is away so that’s good for him. Because the NYC boo birds stay ready 🤣.

Todays kids are not as strong as yesterday’s kids. My dads generation was so strong mentally he would call my generation weak. And now I do the same with the younger generation. And I think there’s some truth to that, but I still have to temper my expectations and approach with my own boys. Can’t raise them like my dad raised me. One day my son told me when he has kids he’s going to give them everything. I’m like ok, like u don’t have anything. 😂

All this blame stuff is good conversation between fans. Thibs try’s to take the pressure off Randle in post interviews which is probably his way to publicly say it’s a team problem not a Randle problem. Who knows what’s said off camera. But if he’s a good leader, he will say the right things to relax his team. Right now they looked tight over this 3 game losing streak. Let’s see how they start tonight at 1 today. I’m sure it’s the same starting lineup. 🤦‍♂️

wargames wrote:

blkexec wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Nalod wrote:Two games under .500 and then blow it up?
Not like we a 23 game winnig team. We trendig to 41-41 give or take.
One seaosn we good and now mediocrity is above some of you?
Then what, blow it up and among the smolding ashes we have picks?
Dolan protests to sell the team. He won’t.
Because its January and 2 games under .500? If last year did not happen, we’d be celebrating.
Phuckig pussies some of you are! Take a break for a few games. Relax.

Well said.
Can we bump your "Lets boo the fans" thread?
Love the lets start Deuce talk. Hope is better than reality for the desperate. No memory of the "start Obi threads"? "IQ/Burks at PG" threads.
Lets trade Randle for Westbrook talk. Cuz he will "teach' our yoots. Those saying that may want to watch the video of him walking out on Lakers in last seconds of the game.
Trade everyone proven that is struggling for a mid to low 1st talks. Cuz we have killed it with so many firsts over the years.

These fans are a bunch of crying babies. They have no actual understanding of what is needed for a pro team to gel and grow.

Nalod, I missed this post. Man, tell us how you really feel 🤣.

I think the lazy approach is to blow it up. But there’s too many old school knick fans that been there done that. What we haven’t done is what we are doing now, developing the yoots. We haven’t had anything consistent in years.

Randle and RJ have flaws? Yes. Both have heart and passion that all teams need. We put too much expectations on their shoulders. We thought last year was a stepping stone but could be an aberration or an anomaly. Maybe Randle and RJ are really #2 and #3 (or 2a and 2b) trying to learn how to be #1, on a roster that doesn’t enhance their positives, to increase their impact. I believe all players regardless of skill set, can be placed in a position to win. Especially if they made it this far to the nba.

This blow it up discussion was understood when Lebron was available. Blow it up works if NY was like LA or Miami where players are kicking and screaming to be here. In reality the days of NYC being the draw for players to come is over. Now it’s all about stability and fostering an environment for young and old players to prosper. If we continue to blow it up every year, we reduce our chances to attract the talent we need. Time to take the tradition approach that all small market teams take. Draft and develop. Leon rose did great with draft picks and gathering young talent. As we develop keep an eye out for #1 talent. Meanwhile keep making d rose type additions until we find the right formula to build on.

We are at that acceptance stage. While the majority of fans are still angry, during that little winning gap we all partook in denial.

However, while we can argue the symptoms for the collapse. I think it’s a bit simpler than that. The FO messed up the 2021 offseason (though you are right they had a really good draft). They let Elfrid walk and he was the best Point of Attack PG on the roster, they let Bullock walk and he was the best wing defender. They came into this season with 3 centers and Mitch who is the only one with reliable minutes was out of shape, Rose is injured, Kemba (who was the last PG available) plays inconsistently and doesn’t match what Thibs wants from PGs.

RJ has stepped up, Julius has not forced the issue on bad shooting nights, Thibs is giving some of the youth consistent minutes. Cam was a very savvy trade for a player who could become a starter. However, it doesn’t matter what they do. They still aren’t going to win a lot of games because for the rest of the season, this shell of last year’s team will be playing the 2nd toughest schedule league wide!

Blowing it up won’t change that fact.

A more realistic approach is Kemba and Fournier need to go to get guys who better fit what Thibs needs to run his system. Neither of those guys should be moved now because they would likely need an asset attached. Obi might need to go to reset the asset that was his draft pick for someone who can get minutes. The Knicks 21-22 season is probably going to be bad, but that doesn’t excuse the FO making the situation worse with a bad trades. Most of their assets can be more valuable this summer.

Try to rebuild upon what worked on last years team and improve on it. On the low Cam/Grimes might be a upgrade to Fournier and Bullock. Maybe grab a PG to improve on Kemba. Get some more young guys Thibs will play because they know how to do defense well. Then for 2022 - 2023 let’s go back to punching opponents in the mouth using defense and attacking then basket with outlet 3’s so out very in shape lineup can wear them out and get wins. Is it beautiful 3 pt basketball, no, but it is NY basketball. Adapting to that Hawks series set us back because the Hawks were fake contenders. Yeah we can kick Trae’s and Atlanta’s teeth in but that doesn’t mean much.

Agree with a lot of this. Especially continuing to use the draft with our current draft assets and drafting kids that can get minutes and fit the NBA mold. Think it is a good take.

Although, my view differs on which players we can say are not "Good Fits". Feel they need to be evaluated when our key players are playing at expected levels. Hard to blame role pieces when our Number One and number two are not playing at their best. Do we think that Elfrid and Bullock look as good throughout the year IF not for Randle's breakout year?

Do agree that we need a high-end PG. But who and from where? I am sure that Rose tried prior to the season and then, when no one was available, went with a short-term/low-cost option of Rose and Kemba. Their health has not made Rose's decision, in retrospect, a good one. However, if Rose comes back and Kemba gets back to pre-injury play, does that view change?

For me, this needs more time. Fans have taken a bull and turned him into a scared rabbit. It makes no sense when I hear fans trying to get Randle to become a facilitator and become more of a low usage player. He is what he is. He will play best with an alpha/attack mentality. He showed the benefits of that last year. What good is he if he is not allowed to be a beast? Now, if that is not what a team wants/needs, then don't sign him. What you do need is to have a really good experienced PG that can control that aggression and control the flow of the ball. We do not have that but to your point, had a PG last year who at least had experience playing with Randle.

The bottom line for me is that we go as Randle goes. And unfortunately, he is not playing well. And as we know, NY fans and media are not going to help when players struggle. Think this hurts in more ways than fans think. NY is not the desired location in pro sports anymore. The way some players are treated gives more reason for good players, including young ones we try to keep, to get out of this environment. Do not see the Randle thing ending well. I am sure he is second-guessing his decision to take less to play here. And like I said, we go as Randle goes. If he goes, we are back to having no chance at the playoffs and looking forward to draft threads.

MS wrote:Honestly, it’s hard to blame the fans.

The team is 11-14 at home and has been pitiful, often times s falling behind by double digits and coming out with little to no effort.

Great post on Thibs above. He’s substitutions have been insane this year. To much rope for RJ and Randle. Not enough creativity with lineups and what he’s done with Obi is mind blowing.

But, largely it falls on Randle. He sets the tone, he’s the guy player follow. He’s been second guessing himself all season long and has been be passing up good shots only to dribble out the clock and force other players to get tough shots.

I think it’s clear we don’t have the talent to compete. Cleveland is going to be better long term, Charlotte has two dynamic talents and more teams are getting better. Probably best to find new talent for the team or swing a major trade

Everyone keeps saying how good NY fans are. Yet they are one of maybe two cities where fans are brutal to play for. The other being Philly.
Went to a Spurs game last week. Not one boo bird and they were not playing well. Fans were really supportive. Have been to several other arenas. Just do not see fans treat their players like NY fans do. Why?

As for Thibs.. I have never been on a team where 95% of the people/fans surrounding the program have thought that the coach needed to do something different. Nor have fans ever been satisfied with their team's coach. In the NBA, it is all about the players. The coach manages effort and personalities. That is it. It is an iso, PNR, three-point league. If players do not make shots, the team does not prosper. But agree, if effort level was low, that was on Thibs.

wargames wrote:

blkexec wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Nalod wrote:Two games under .500 and then blow it up?
Not like we a 23 game winnig team. We trendig to 41-41 give or take.
One seaosn we good and now mediocrity is above some of you?
Then what, blow it up and among the smolding ashes we have picks?
Dolan protests to sell the team. He won’t.
Because its January and 2 games under .500? If last year did not happen, we’d be celebrating.
Phuckig pussies some of you are! Take a break for a few games. Relax.

Well said.
Can we bump your "Lets boo the fans" thread?
Love the lets start Deuce talk. Hope is better than reality for the desperate. No memory of the "start Obi threads"? "IQ/Burks at PG" threads.
Lets trade Randle for Westbrook talk. Cuz he will "teach' our yoots. Those saying that may want to watch the video of him walking out on Lakers in last seconds of the game.
Trade everyone proven that is struggling for a mid to low 1st talks. Cuz we have killed it with so many firsts over the years.

These fans are a bunch of crying babies. They have no actual understanding of what is needed for a pro team to gel and grow.

Nalod, I missed this post. Man, tell us how you really feel 🤣.

I think the lazy approach is to blow it up. But there’s too many old school knick fans that been there done that. What we haven’t done is what we are doing now, developing the yoots. We haven’t had anything consistent in years.

Randle and RJ have flaws? Yes. Both have heart and passion that all teams need. We put too much expectations on their shoulders. We thought last year was a stepping stone but could be an aberration or an anomaly. Maybe Randle and RJ are really #2 and #3 (or 2a and 2b) trying to learn how to be #1, on a roster that doesn’t enhance their positives, to increase their impact. I believe all players regardless of skill set, can be placed in a position to win. Especially if they made it this far to the nba.

This blow it up discussion was understood when Lebron was available. Blow it up works if NY was like LA or Miami where players are kicking and screaming to be here. In reality the days of NYC being the draw for players to come is over. Now it’s all about stability and fostering an environment for young and old players to prosper. If we continue to blow it up every year, we reduce our chances to attract the talent we need. Time to take the tradition approach that all small market teams take. Draft and develop. Leon rose did great with draft picks and gathering young talent. As we develop keep an eye out for #1 talent. Meanwhile keep making d rose type additions until we find the right formula to build on.

We are at that acceptance stage. While the majority of fans are still angry, during that little winning gap we all partook in denial.

However, while we can argue the symptoms for the collapse. I think it’s a bit simpler than that. The FO messed up the 2021 offseason (though you are right they had a really good draft). They let Elfrid walk and he was the best Point of Attack PG on the roster, they let Bullock walk and he was the best wing defender. They came into this season with 3 centers and Mitch who is the only one with reliable minutes was out of shape, Rose is injured, Kemba (who was the last PG available) plays inconsistently and doesn’t match what Thibs wants from PGs.

RJ has stepped up, Julius has not forced the issue on bad shooting nights, Thibs is giving some of the youth consistent minutes. Cam was a very savvy trade for a player who could become a starter. However, it doesn’t matter what they do. They still aren’t going to win a lot of games because for the rest of the season, this shell of last year’s team will be playing the 2nd toughest schedule league wide!

Blowing it up won’t change that fact.

A more realistic approach is Kemba and Fournier need to go to get guys who better fit what Thibs needs to run his system. Neither of those guys should be moved now because they would likely need an asset attached. Obi might need to go to reset the asset that was his draft pick for someone who can get minutes. The Knicks 21-22 season is probably going to be bad, but that doesn’t excuse the FO making the situation worse with a bad trades. Most of their assets can be more valuable this summer.

Try to rebuild upon what worked on last years team and improve on it. On the low Cam/Grimes might be a upgrade to Fournier and Bullock. Maybe grab a PG to improve on Kemba. Get some more young guys Thibs will play because they know how to do defense well. Then for 2022 - 2023 let’s go back to punching opponents in the mouth using defense and attacking then basket with outlet 3’s so out very in shape lineup can wear them out and get wins. Is it beautiful 3 pt basketball, no, but it is NY basketball. Adapting to that Hawks series set us back because the Hawks were fake contenders. Yeah we can kick Trae’s and Atlanta’s teeth in but that doesn’t mean much.

For those of you that continue to bring up elf and Bullock, you do realize both of these players were here the year before, with Randle, on a 21-45 team! The year that most of us agreed that Randle wasn't a good fit and needed to be traded, in fact, there were rumors he was offered to Charlotte for Rozier but we got turned down. Clearly, last year was an outlier, for the team and especially Randle. His numbers are much closer to who he was his first year here, in fact, he might be worse.

If the Hawks were fake contenders, then what would you call us? We were out-coached, out-played, and out-talented (you get my point). Rose was the only player that could consistently create his own shot. elf, a current 3rd-string pg, was benched by game 3 ad there was no way he was coming back. Bullocks inability to create anything for himself, handcuffed the offense because the Randle of 2019-2020 showed up in the playoffs and he couldn't help Reggie get open looks. A ton of things broke right for last year's team to catch lightning in a bottle for the regular season, but the clock struck 12 when the playoffs began.

In addition, the teams that were below us last year, have improved. Chicago is more talented than this and last year's version of the Knicks. So are Cleveland and Charlotte. The Heat was dealing with injuries and covid issues last year but they have surpassed us this year. In fact, they swept us last year. Toronto was displaced last year and is clearly better. You can argue that Evan and especially Kemba were the wrong moves, but the right move was not bringing back the entire team from last year.

Or only when we lose?

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

MS wrote:Honestly, it’s hard to blame the fans.

The team is 11-14 at home and has been pitiful, often times s falling behind by double digits and coming out with little to no effort.

Great post on Thibs above. He’s substitutions have been insane this year. To much rope for RJ and Randle. Not enough creativity with lineups and what he’s done with Obi is mind blowing.

But, largely it falls on Randle. He sets the tone, he’s the guy player follow. He’s been second guessing himself all season long and has been be passing up good shots only to dribble out the clock and force other players to get tough shots.

I think it’s clear we don’t have the talent to compete. Cleveland is going to be better long term, Charlotte has two dynamic talents and more teams are getting better. Probably best to find new talent for the team or swing a major trade

Everyone keeps saying how good NY fans are. Yet they are one of maybe two cities where fans are brutal to play for. The other being Philly.
Went to a Spurs game last week. Not one boo bird and they were not playing well. Fans were really supportive. Have been to several other arenas. Just do not see fans treat their players like NY fans do. Why?

As for Thibs.. I have never been on a team where 95% of the people/fans surrounding the program have thought that the coach needed to do something different. Nor have fans ever been satisfied with their team's coach. In the NBA, it is all about the players. The coach manages effort and personalities. That is it. It is an iso, PNR, three-point league. If players do not make shots, the team does not prosper. But agree, if effort level was low, that was on Thibs.

I don't agree about the effort part. The only tool a coach has at the NBA level to manage effort is playing time. But you can only do that with certain players under certain circumstances.

I don't know how you coach effort. That should be on the player IMHO

Playing time is definitely one of the tools a coach has to regulate effort. Although it is more of an indication if a coach has failed or succeeded in implementing other more important tools. Most ELITE coaches were able to coach effort by getting players to buy-in to their philosophy and vision. They were able to get their players to put forth effort by making them see and feel the rewards that will be there if 100% effort is given. They coach effort by creating a culture of success, responsibility, and accountability. They get players to put forth effort by leading by example with integrity and hard work. Riley, Jackson, Pop were all known for all of those things. My point was that Thibs' main job is to motivate players to put forth maximum effort not to have a whole bunch of fancy plays/schemes or to develop 2nd round picks. For the most part, I think he is excellent at doing that. Think if a player is not putting in the maximum effort it is because a coach has failed to get to that player. That does not mean it is the coach's fault. Just that he was not able to connect with the player. Which is the reason why so many players just end up getting traded.

Monty Williams did it with Ayton in the finals.

jrodmc wrote:

blkexec wrote:So this blow it up thread was created at the end of a 3 game skid. Just curious for the fans that agree with this approach, do you still carry that same energy after a win like tonight?

Or only when we lose?

Stay tuned. BRIGGS with a "This team is poised for a playoff run" coming soon to a thread near you!

LMAO

I believe BRIGGS is the leader and co founder of the BING BONG fans.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/sidetalknyc/status/1451228149224718351

Jmpasq wrote:
The best thing to do is keep the young players and try to dump all the players signed this off-season

"Captain Beyblade" Randle: Four years, $117.09 million... Includes $15,966,720 in incentives, a fourth-year player option, and a 15% trade kicker. Starts in 2022/23....

Evan Fournier: Four years, $73MM. ...
Derrick Rose: Three years, $43.56MM. ...
Alec Burks: Three years, $30.04MM. ...
Nerlens Noel: Three years, $27.72MM. ...
Kemba Walker: Two years, $17.89MM. ...
Taj Gibson: Two years, $10.07MM. ...

Leon Rose managed to miss on every single one.