Allanfan20 wrote:Hope Randle is OK. With that said….

I think the best thing possible for Randle and the Knicks is the team performs GREAT without him. Then he and the team can play well without him and he doesn’t go back to his old ways.

His attitude on the court is nothing short of suck-ass.

I hope so. Trading Jules now isn't really feasible. He's making to much and he's underperforming. Since we're stuck with him for the foreseeable future, I'm rooting for him to get out of his doldrums. He said Kobe is his idol. Say what you want about Kobe, but he would never display the defeatist body language Randle has shown.

Philc1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Philc1 wrote:Oh no what are we going to do without Carmeloball for a couple games

Who's better on this team than Randle, and it's not even close.

He leads the teams in Points, Rebounds Assist, double doubles.

But we'll see what OBI does with the extra min, his perimeter game is super suspect

When 50% of the offensive possessions are the team running ISO for you to score you better lead in points and assists

Dude..Asisde from Randle

Rj is having terrible start

Fournier is having and inconsistent start and his defense is pretty bad

Mitch looks like a late 2nd rounder

Kemba was not playing well at all and was benched

Noel isn't playing close to what he was last season

OBI is shooting 20% from every where except a dunk

Randle is surrounded by struggling teammates

Allanfan20 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Philc1 wrote:Oh no what are we going to do without Carmeloball for a couple games

Who's better on this team than Randle, and it's not even close.

He leads the teams in Points, Rebounds Assist, double doubles.

But we'll see what OBI does with the extra min, his perimeter game is super suspect

When 50% of the offensive possessions are the team running ISO for you to score you better lead in points and assists

Dude..Asisde from Randle

Rj is having terrible start

Fournier is having and inconsistent start and his defense is pretty bad

Mitch looks like a late 2nd rounder

Kemba was not playing well at all and was benched

Noel isn't playing close to what he was last season

OBI is shooting 20% from every where except a dunk

Randle is surrounded by struggling teammates

Yes and Randle is supposed to be the leader of the team and here he is coming out sluggish, frequently with his head up his ars while constantly yelling at his teammates and the refs… and for once, the stats back it up a little.

Do you have examples of Randle constantly yelling at team-mates? I watch almost every minute of every game and have not seen this. Feels like piling on to me.

Allanfan20 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Philc1 wrote:Oh no what are we going to do without Carmeloball for a couple games

Who's better on this team than Randle, and it's not even close.

He leads the teams in Points, Rebounds Assist, double doubles.

But we'll see what OBI does with the extra min, his perimeter game is super suspect

When 50% of the offensive possessions are the team running ISO for you to score you better lead in points and assists

Dude..Asisde from Randle

Rj is having terrible start

Fournier is having and inconsistent start and his defense is pretty bad

Mitch looks like a late 2nd rounder

Kemba was not playing well at all and was benched

Noel isn't playing close to what he was last season

OBI is shooting 20% from every where except a dunk

Randle is surrounded by struggling teammates

Yes and Randle is supposed to be the leader of the team and here he is coming out sluggish, frequently with his head up his ars while constantly yelling at his teammates and the refs… and for once, the stats back it up a little.

The first month of the season (once the scouting report was out) fournier and kemba were trying to avoid stepping one toes(both admitted it) so chemistry was way off.

Thibs continued to play lane clogging, space reducer Mitch Robinson (who is a very low IQ player) with Randle, making us the slowest pace team in all of basket ball.

Thibs continues to allow Randle to be our primary ball handler, and his lack of offensive creativity makes us super predictable

I get just as pissed as anyone when Randle holds the ball too long, or tries to split double team and gets stripped, but then when i rewind the tape, I see none of his teammates cut to the basket, no one moves to the open space quick enough...so it's not all on Randle.

So is Thibs putting Randle in a position to be successful?

smackeddog wrote:Interestingly Jonathon Macri said on his podcast (the Knicks film school emergency pod from yesterday) that someone in the Knicks org told him not to think Thibs is fine with the way Randle has been this season, he said it's tearing Thibs up, he's just not showing it in public. Also said it's also changed the way some of people in the Knicks org view Randle, they've really soured on him.

There's been a very different chemistry this year and not in a good way. Randle/ELF/Bullock played a ton together and played well to their skill sets. They defended really well and on offense ELF would dribble all day until he found Randle a good look or he found Reggie open. This year the Randle/Fourn/Kemba combo looks bad, plays bad and shows no desire to gel or work as unit, especially on defense. Randle guards his guy like he wants to fight him in the parking lot after the game and be bothered much with help.

The front office and Thibs have their first big challenge IMO. Can they get Randle straight? Do they move him? What about Fournier/Kemba? Can we get another late first for Burks at the deadline?

BigDaddyG wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:Hope Randle is OK. With that said….

I think the best thing possible for Randle and the Knicks is the team performs GREAT without him. Then he and the team can play well without him and he doesn’t go back to his old ways.

His attitude on the court is nothing short of suck-ass.

I hope so. Trading Jules now isn't really feasible. He's making to much and he's underperforming. Since we're stuck with him for the foreseeable future, I'm rooting for him to get out of his doldrums. He said Kobe is his idol. Say what you want about Kobe, but he would never display the defeatist body language Randle has shown.

The options may be slim and the value may not be equal in our eyes but I think he's tradeable. I am sure there are some teams that have contracts they want to move, or players that haven't worked out like John Wall, or Marvin Bagley and another player to make the salaries work.

There is always an owner, gm or coach that thinks they can fix a player, especially if they are underachieving and think they are one player away from whatever goal they set forth before the season.

Uptown wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:Hope Randle is OK. With that said….

I think the best thing possible for Randle and the Knicks is the team performs GREAT without him. Then he and the team can play well without him and he doesn’t go back to his old ways.

His attitude on the court is nothing short of suck-ass.

I hope so. Trading Jules now isn't really feasible. He's making to much and he's underperforming. Since we're stuck with him for the foreseeable future, I'm rooting for him to get out of his doldrums. He said Kobe is his idol. Say what you want about Kobe, but he would never display the defeatist body language Randle has shown.

The options may be slim and the value may not be equal in our eyes but I think he's tradeable. I am sure there are some teams that have contracts they want to move, or players that haven't worked out like John Wall, or Marvin Bagley and another player to make the salaries work.

There is always an owner, gm or coach that thinks they can fix a player, especially if they are underachieving and think they are one player away from whatever goal they set forth before the season.

He also averaged 19.5pts 9.7rbs in 2019. This entire board wanted him moved. STATS don’t tell the story.

He doesn’t have confidence in his shot this year. He’s hesitating on everything. Passing up good shots for contested shots. His assist numbers don’t seem to be down much, but his passes aren’t crisp.

EF is not a good fit for this team. Thibs needs to figure out how to get more guys out there to open up the floor.

I would like to see IQ, RJ, Grimes, Knox, Randle out there. If you’re going to let Julius handle the ball open things up for the guy with spot up shooting.

Uptown wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Uptown wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:Hope Randle is OK. With that said….

I think the best thing possible for Randle and the Knicks is the team performs GREAT without him. Then he and the team can play well without him and he doesn’t go back to his old ways.

His attitude on the court is nothing short of suck-ass.

I hope so. Trading Jules now isn't really feasible. He's making to much and he's underperforming. Since we're stuck with him for the foreseeable future, I'm rooting for him to get out of his doldrums. He said Kobe is his idol. Say what you want about Kobe, but he would never display the defeatist body language Randle has shown.

The options may be slim and the value may not be equal in our eyes but I think he's tradeable. I am sure there are some teams that have contracts they want to move, or players that haven't worked out like John Wall, or Marvin Bagley and another player to make the salaries work.

There is always an owner, gm or coach that thinks they can fix a player, especially if they are underachieving and think they are one player away from whatever goal they set forth before the season.

Yes, there are deals that could be made. But do you really want John Wall?

Didn't say I wanted him, just pointing out that there are some options...

Nalod wrote:Maybe Randle is a bit burn’t out and need to find a pace that is less than superman but better than what we have seen?
Players, even great ones hit brick walls.
Randle had a magical year and signed a reasonable contract. that sigh of relief might be human nature.
Its not good if it permeates long term.
We don’t need last years Jules but a better version in between?

He signed a reasonable based on last year's production. But right now, when you take into consideration his usage, FGA and minutes, I can honestly say he's performing like $15M a year player right now. And that might be generous. I don't hate Jules. I want him and the team to do better. I would be content if had dropped off just a little. But he's dropped of a lot. It's not just the three point percentage, but he's closing in on a FG% of 40%. His PER, Win Shares and Vorp are middling for a high level starter. It's disingenuous to list his raw numbers like PPG and conveniently leave out the other stuff.

fishmike wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Interestingly Jonathon Macri said on his podcast (the Knicks film school emergency pod from yesterday) that someone in the Knicks org told him not to think Thibs is fine with the way Randle has been this season, he said it's tearing Thibs up, he's just not showing it in public. Also said it's also changed the way some of people in the Knicks org view Randle, they've really soured on him.

there is NO PHUCKING WAY Thibs is OK with this. He's got to be very careful and he's got to perfectly manage a player who is really struggling, impacting the team with his poor play, was just given a huge contract, and does have talent. Its really hard. Its a lot of hats to wear. People really cant grasp its not as simple as "play this guy instead." The league just doesnt work like that.

There's been a very different chemistry this year and not in a good way. Randle/ELF/Bullock played a ton together and played well to their skill sets. They defended really well and on offense ELF would dribble all day until he found Randle a good look or he found Reggie open. This year the Randle/Fourn/Kemba combo looks bad, plays bad and shows no desire to gel or work as unit, especially on defense. Randle guards his guy like he wants to fight him in the parking lot after the game and be bothered much with help.

The front office and Thibs have their first big challenge IMO. Can they get Randle straight? Do they move him? What about Fournier/Kemba? Can we get another late first for Burks at the deadline?

Good call on Burks. His favorable contract and play this year makes him our most valuable player and perhaps most attractive player to other teams. I think the previous front office's agenda when we traded Morris was a bit different than this year's front office. Unless we fall flat on our faces down the stretch and fall out of the play-in, I don't think we move Burks at the deadline. But, at some point a decision will have to made if Grimes and IQ continue to improve and are need of playing time. Fournier might be the preferable choice to move, but like I said, Burks has more value.

I've made it clear on numerous occasions that I am not a Randle fan, however, he's our best player and anyone who says he needs to be benched has no clue what they're talking about. That's not the way it works. With that said, I have called-out Thibs to hold him accountable the same way he holds the others accountable. When Randle has defensive lapses, and or missed assignments, Thibs needs to pull him off the floor the same way he would pull RJ or Evan or Obi off the floor. Wouldn't mind seeong Randle down to about 32 mins per as well...