Nalod wrote:

TheGame wrote:

MS wrote:Honestly with the exception of passing on Halliburton the front office has hit a home run on pretty much everything they did.

They haven’t made any panic moves, they have made trades in the draft to acquire more capital and they kept continuity.

Obviously 90% of free agents are going to wait to get every last dollar from their current team so no one is signing with the Knicks as a free agent that’s too 15.

Scoring was our biggest problem last year and we added to 18-20 point guys to start. If you look at numbers, the Rose/Kemba combination gives you elite scoring, RJ and Randle will average 20 and Fournier is gifted. Rose and Mitch make up the second best defensive combo in the league at the position and all the contracts are tradable.

They have three kids that can make a rotation hopefully in the next year and tradable assets in Obi, IQ and multiple picks.

We are actually in great shape.

Totally agree. Hindsight is 20/20, so in hindsight you can nitpick some decisions but for the most part the front office has made GREAT decisions in both the draft and free agency. I already know that at least one player we passed on in the draft will blowup and in two years we will be bitching about it, but the team decided to bank on solid defensive players who can shoot, and it took chances on Sims and the European pg, who both showed promise. I plan to sit back and enjoy this season. For the first time in probably 10 years, the team is looking in great shape.

Yes, every draft will have players in hindsight that knicks, and many others will have missed on.
At the same time other will have wiffed on our players. Frank and Knox are the object of our distain but there is IQ and Mitch at were we got them.
And which teams wiffed on Randle?
RJ was a no brainer. Jury still out on OBI.
This years crop has yet to play with the Varsity so its “no comment”. I know fans feel good but thats intangible.

Are we locked in? Fans tent to think we hold players until the contract expires.
As for the list of players above Jules, its a stretch to argue. Its a fluid list. When the music stopped he was voted as a top 4 forward. He was better than Lebron last year. That does not mean he IS better, but last year he was. If LEbron plays 30 games this year, Jules playes 70, he will be better. Do playoffs matter? Yes. But not for they way they vote. Would I trade Jules for Lebron today? No. We are not good enough to support him and he can’t carry a team like he used to. If we get to trade deadline and RJ is killing it, OBI taken an incredible leap and Lebron is the piece that can win us a chip? YEs. But for this team, right here and now I take a good 5-6 older guys off the list. The young up and comers are no brainers.
But Last seaosn Jules was better than Tatum. Sure I’d trade them even up because of Tatums youth and still upside potential. See how intangables work? Tatum had a bad covid year and Boston imploded.

Every time I try to sit one out... you can argue age, how someone played one season vs another, etc... at the end of the day - if we swapped out Lebron for Randle in playoffs do you truly believe we wouldn't have performed better as a team vs the Hawks? Do you really believe that Deandre Hunter and John Collins would have been able to successfully swarm and keep Lebron in check? We lose 4-1 with Lebron to the Hawks? I completely agree he's slowed down and not the Lebron from the Cavs years where he single-handedly carried them to the Finals. But he's still clearly better and more of a threat then Randle. Btw, I would expect every GM to turn down Randle for Lebron, or Randle for Tatum or Randle for all those top 10-15 players. Age and fit come into play more when you go below that top 15.

KnickDanger wrote:Based on last year I really like our group. A lot. Also glad KD, Kyrie, and Harden are not on the Knicks. A lot. Front runners, disingenuous clickbait media, star worshipping ADD fans in search of whipping boys be damned.

KD, Kyrie and Harden are totally unlikeable. But they are talented as hell.

Caseloads wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

Marv wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:Randle is top 10 on our team - but not close to top 10 in the NBA. Top 10 players match or exceed their regular season performance against average defensive teams - they don't struggle mightily even when they're the lone star on a so so team. Dame is a good example of this when they played the Nuggets. Name any top 10 player that shrunk in the playoffs (like Randle did) and you'll realize he's not in the top 10. Maybe top 30?

U’re 2nd team all-nba u’re top 10. by definition

If you go by position. There are at least 15 players better, maybe 20. He is a Tier 3 Star player

you are a tier 4 vet min poster at best.

how can a tier 3 star get all star nods, and voted 2 team all NBA.

I would like to see your your list of PF that played better than Randle last season

My bad I meant if you don't go by position, there are more guards and wings I value over Randle. Tier 1 star players are truly transcendent players Lebron, Durant, Curry, Giannis. Is anyone here arguing that Randle is as good as the top 8 guys I listed? I think everyone can agree he isn't tier 1 correct? Next you have guys Lillard, Anthony Davis, and Jimmy Butler. Randle is closer to these players but they still have years of All Star Level and ALl NBA play on their resumes. Fans of other teams would not trade Randle straight up for anyone of these players. Once you get pat Kyrie you can start making an argument for Randle. Thats why I say he is a tier 3 star player. I think you can group him with Paul George, Tatum, Mitchell, Booker, and Towns. While he is a tier above guys like Brown and Murray.

1. Lebron
2. Durant
3. Giannis
4. Curry
5. Harden
6. Leonard
7. Jokic
8. Doncic
9. Embid
10. A Davis
11. D. Lillard
12. Jimmy Butler
13. Zion Williamson
14. Trae Young
15. Chris Paul
16. Bradley Beal
17. Kyrie Irving
18. Jayson Tatum
19. Devin Booker
20. Donovan Mitchell
21. Paul George
22. Julius Randle
23. Rudy Gobert
24. Karl Anthony Towns
25. Zach Lavine
26. Khris Middleton
27. Bam Adebayo
28. Jaylen Brown
29. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
30. Jamal Murray

great order to this list. I would say Jaylen Brown and Jamaal Murray should be higher. But overall, well played.

I really don't see how you can compare players that don't have the same responsibilities

IMO the only way to compare players is by position.

you would be hard press to find a debate about who was better, Steph Curry or Wilt.

Doncic, Gannis and Jokic were by far the best players in the NBA last season

Lebron is the best athlete in the NBA, but he's not the best in any one category, not shooting, not passing, not rebounding, not steals

Caseloads wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

Marv wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:Randle is top 10 on our team - but not close to top 10 in the NBA. Top 10 players match or exceed their regular season performance against average defensive teams - they don't struggle mightily even when they're the lone star on a so so team. Dame is a good example of this when they played the Nuggets. Name any top 10 player that shrunk in the playoffs (like Randle did) and you'll realize he's not in the top 10. Maybe top 30?

U’re 2nd team all-nba u’re top 10. by definition

If you go by position. There are at least 15 players better, maybe 20. He is a Tier 3 Star player

you are a tier 4 vet min poster at best.

how can a tier 3 star get all star nods, and voted 2 team all NBA.

I would like to see your your list of PF that played better than Randle last season

My bad I meant if you don't go by position, there are more guards and wings I value over Randle. Tier 1 star players are truly transcendent players Lebron, Durant, Curry, Giannis. Is anyone here arguing that Randle is as good as the top 8 guys I listed? I think everyone can agree he isn't tier 1 correct? Next you have guys Lillard, Anthony Davis, and Jimmy Butler. Randle is closer to these players but they still have years of All Star Level and ALl NBA play on their resumes. Fans of other teams would not trade Randle straight up for anyone of these players. Once you get pat Kyrie you can start making an argument for Randle. Thats why I say he is a tier 3 star player. I think you can group him with Paul George, Tatum, Mitchell, Booker, and Towns. While he is a tier above guys like Brown and Murray.

1. Lebron
2. Durant
3. Giannis
4. Curry
5. Harden
6. Leonard
7. Jokic
8. Doncic
9. Embid
10. A Davis
11. D. Lillard
12. Jimmy Butler
13. Zion Williamson
14. Trae Young
15. Chris Paul
16. Bradley Beal
17. Kyrie Irving
18. Jayson Tatum
19. Devin Booker
20. Donovan Mitchell
21. Paul George
22. Julius Randle
23. Rudy Gobert
24. Karl Anthony Towns
25. Zach Lavine
26. Khris Middleton
27. Bam Adebayo
28. Jaylen Brown
29. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
30. Jamal Murray

great order to this list. I would say Jaylen Brown and Jamaal Murray should be higher. But overall, well played.

Hoops hype listed Randle as a top 4 PF currently in the NBA, thats ahead of Green, Tobais and Paskal

That's the way you rate players

https://hoopshype.com/lists/nba-rankings-2021-22-season-top-22-power-forwards-giannis-anthony-davis-zion-williamson-julius-randle/

Nalod wrote:That we used the cap space from KP trade to sign randle makes the trade a bonafide win for us.
Sometimes doors close open new opportunties. Without imagination or FO confidence fans can’t see it.

Getting KP outta here before getting locked into a nightmare long term max contract like the situation Mark Cuban is in with him now alone was a win. Getting Randle and him blossoming here was a big bonus

Philc1 wrote:

Nalod wrote:That we used the cap space from KP trade to sign randle makes the trade a bonafide win for us.
Sometimes doors close open new opportunties. Without imagination or FO confidence fans can’t see it.

Getting KP outta here before getting locked into a nightmare long term max contract like the situation Mark Cuban is in with him now alone was a win. Getting Randle and him blossoming here was a big bonus

Lot of talk that KP first healthy off season in a while an big season expected.
He held up last season. Maybe he can live up to the contract? We’ll se.

ESOMKnicks wrote:Short of Kawhi or Luka there is no superstar I would like to trade for right now. The stars are across the East River. I like the team that we have and would like it to develop experience and cohesiveness as presently constituted. If Randle maintains his high level of play, RJ develops a couple of go to moves, and no one slacks off or is injured, and with utmost team effort, we could be a contender.

The only thing exciting bout the Knicks 2021-22 season will be the creative 2nd unit lineup .. D.Rose, Quickley, Obi, and Noel or MitchRob or Taj.

For the past two decade the Knicks been looking for a young creative starter PG they could sign for 6 years .. Ben Simmons !!!

Kemet wrote:

ESOMKnicks wrote:Short of Kawhi or Luka there is no superstar I would like to trade for right now. The stars are across the East River. I like the team that we have and would like it to develop experience and cohesiveness as presently constituted. If Randle maintains his high level of play, RJ develops a couple of go to moves, and no one slacks off or is injured, and with utmost team effort, we could be a contender.

The only thing exciting bout the Knicks 2021-22 season will be the creative 2nd unit lineup .. D.Rose, Quickley, Obi, and Noel or MitchRob or Taj.

For the past two decade the Knicks been looking for a young creative starter PG they could sign for 6 years .. Ben Simmons !!!

Ben Simmons cannot be just signed - he is currently under contract for the upcoming 4 seasons at between $33M - $40M per season, so he could only be acquired via trade at this point. Even if the Knicks were willing to put together a trade package to take on Simmons and have him eat up over 30% of their cap space - it is very unlikely the Sixers would trade him to a division rival.

FYI - max contract is 5 years.

The prospects of the Knicks 2nd unit is exciting - but will be projected to be the same as much of last year. Not sure how any Knicks fan would not be excited about seeing the changes made with the starters. Certainly the impact of Kemba vs. Payton and the return of Mitch in with a PNR guy at the point - or the difference that EF brings vs. Bullock (i.e. if the impacts on offense will outweigh the loss of Bullock on D).

Which begs the question. Are you even a Knicks fan or just here to troll?

ESOMKnicks wrote:Short of Kawhi or Luka there is no superstar I would like to trade for right now. The stars are across the East River. I like the team that we have and would like it to develop experience and cohesiveness as presently constituted. If Randle maintains his high level of play, RJ develops a couple of go to moves, and no one slacks off or is injured, and with utmost team effort, we could be a contender.

I think D Fox is one guy I would give up RJ for, and maybe even 1 or 2 of our young guys.

Fox
Haliburton
Heild (somtimes SF but undersized there)
Davion Mitchell

They are the odds on fav to land Simmons but they don’t want to move Fox who is very much liked by fans. Simmons started saying he would to to any Cali team but there. Not a good start. Mitchell and Haliburton from what I read trends as a high level role player. AKA: not an allstar. That what makes a trade to philly tough from Morey’s perspective. Last year he almost lands Harden which opened the issue with simmons. I don’t blame Morey as that trade might have given them a chip if Harden was healthy.
Fertitta likely could no stomach that for obvious reasons plus he had Walls contract to look at.

I don’t know what RJ becomes but Im sure as hell rooting for him to take it to another level this year. Just because there is no hype does not mean it won’t happen. I don’t see unless a 3rd team is involved that was are good trading parter with Fhilly for what they’d likely want in return.