KnickDanger wrote:Waaaaah.

Remember when Dennis Smith Jr was the next Chris Paul?

Kemet wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

martin wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Nalod wrote:RJ Barrett perhaps?
Randle? He really plays a lot o wing like minutes?

Maybe its not so much that Randle might not have elite defense on the parimeter but then seems most wings won;t be able to guard him. I cant tell you the next 2 years either.

RJ and Randle's presence shouldn't prevent us from from taking the best player on the board. You can never have enough elite wings on the roster. In Johnson, we add a a player allstar potential, that we will control for the next 4-5 years? Talent like that is rarely available outside of the lottery.

There are a lot more things to consider outside of just raw, potential talent?

Bro quit on his team, was ineligible his last year in HS, and when did did play at Duke they weren't even ranked in top 25 and barely suffered after he left?

Meanwhile guy like Grimes leads his team to a final four appearance.

The Knicks all but told us that they HEAVILY consider things like character, readiness, proven track record regarding their selections. That's their MO.

Why do you think they would make a heavy exception for him?

Did Mitch quit on his team?

Johnson opted out during a global pandemic. He did what was best for himself and his health. He didn't owe Duke anything.

Point is, Knicks did their scouting and they decided they liked Grimes more. 18 other teams graded JJ and they passed. Did the Knicks and those other teams mess up? Maybe, it happens. Is summer league to soon to die on this hill? Heck yeah. Why not wait until half of a season to make this a thing. That would still be too early, but at least you'd have a few games of actual game play to go on.

Why did the Knicks FO (Perry) select a SG (Grimes) with the Knicks first pick in the draft?
Wasn't the Knicks biggest weakness (after D.Rose arrive) the SF position? Bullock did a well job, but we got nothing from Knox as a backup SF in the rotation, we had to use Burks, which gave us a 3-Guard lineup in the 2nd unit. Having Knox tier-3 inconsistent performance, plus losing Bullock to the FA market ..
The Knicks first priority in the 2021 draft class were to select the best SF available. really made
The 2021 NBA draft were strong at having 11 decent NBA-ready SF & Point-Forward players.
The Knicks first selection with the 19th pick in the 2021 draft class were to select a Knicks team priority Jalen Johnson, and forget the Dukes incident because of Covid-19 !!!

To give the Knicks the strength they need at the forward position in the 2021-22 NBA season, the Knicks should've been ready to select one out of the 11 potential SF names below if available at the 19th pick.

1) Cunningham
2) Green
3) Barnes
4) Kuminga
5) Jalen Johnson
6) Wagner
7) Bouknight
8) Duarte
9) Kispert
10) Murphy
11) Giddey

i see RJ as a SF, not a SG. Backfilling a SG was a good move.

blkexec wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

martin wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Nalod wrote:6’7 RJ Barrett perhaps?
6’9 Randle? He really plays a lot o wing like minutes?

Maybe its not so much that Randle might not have elite defense on the parimeter but then seems most wings won’t be able to guard him. I can’t tell you the next 2 years either.

RJ and Randle's presence shouldn't prevent us from from taking the best player on the board. You can never have enough elite wings on the roster. In Johnson, we add a a player allstar potential, that we will control for the next 4-5 years? Talent like that is rarely available outside of the lottery.

There are a lot more things to consider outside of just raw, potential talent?

Bro quit on his team, was ineligible his last year in HS, and when did did play at Duke they weren't even ranked in top 25 and barely suffered after he left?

Meanwhile guy like Grimes leads his team to a final four appearance.

The Knicks all but told us that they HEAVILY consider things like character, readiness, proven track record regarding their selections. That's their MO.

Why do you think they would make a heavy exception for him?

Did Mitch quit on his team?

Johnson opted out during a global pandemic. He did what was best for himself and his health. He didn't owe Duke anything.

No....Mitch did not quit on his HS team. In fact he was ranked with all the top centers that year. And those centers was drafted early in the 1st round.

No...Mitch did not quit on his college team. He never played. Got a full ride scholarship to western Kentucky, but had some bad advice from mentors to sit out. And workout at Lifetime Fitness. To prepare for the nba.

I think the real story was the college gave Mitch's godfather an assistant coach job to get him to come to that school. For some reason the godfather resigned before Mitch was going to report so he decided not to go. Mitch seems like a nice kid but he always has shady business dealings/associates.

blkexec wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

martin wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Nalod wrote:6’7 RJ Barrett perhaps?
6’9 Randle? He really plays a lot o wing like minutes?

Maybe its not so much that Randle might not have elite defense on the parimeter but then seems most wings won’t be able to guard him. I can’t tell you the next 2 years either.

RJ and Randle's presence shouldn't prevent us from from taking the best player on the board. You can never have enough elite wings on the roster. In Johnson, we add a a player allstar potential, that we will control for the next 4-5 years? Talent like that is rarely available outside of the lottery.

There are a lot more things to consider outside of just raw, potential talent?

Bro quit on his team, was ineligible his last year in HS, and when did did play at Duke they weren't even ranked in top 25 and barely suffered after he left?

Meanwhile guy like Grimes leads his team to a final four appearance.

The Knicks all but told us that they HEAVILY consider things like character, readiness, proven track record regarding their selections. That's their MO.

Why do you think they would make a heavy exception for him?

Did Mitch quit on his team?

Johnson opted out during a global pandemic. He did what was best for himself and his health. He didn't owe Duke anything.

No....Mitch did not quit on his HS team. In fact he was ranked with all the top centers that year. And those centers was drafted early in the 1st round.

No...Mitch did not quit on his college team. He never played. Got a full ride scholarship to western Kentucky, but had some bad advice from mentors to sit out. And workout at Lifetime Fitness. To prepare for the nba.

You're leaving a lot out.
Mitch showed up and enrolled in summer classes at WK and even practiced with the team. He then left campus without telling anyone at the school. Just cleaned out his dorm and left. WK coach Rick Stansbury suspended Mitch from the team indefinitely. Stansbury flew to New Orleans to talk to Mitch. Mitch basically said he didn't want to play there anymore, so WK gave him his release. Robinson visited LSU only to have them back off. Then visited Kansas only to have them back off. Mitch worried he might have to sit out a year if he transferred to New Orleans, flirted with the idea of going overseas.
After all that Robinson went back to Western Kentucky, where he knew with 100 percent certainty that he would be eligible to play. After he enrolled at WK he quit the team again to focus on the draft.
Look, I don't have a problem with what Mitch did. I just have a problem with people calling out Jalen Johnson but are so forgiving of Robinson

Rookie wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

martin wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Nalod wrote:6’7 RJ Barrett perhaps?
6’9 Randle? He really plays a lot o wing like minutes?

Maybe its not so much that Randle might not have elite defense on the parimeter but then seems most wings won’t be able to guard him. I can’t tell you the next 2 years either.

RJ and Randle's presence shouldn't prevent us from from taking the best player on the board. You can never have enough elite wings on the roster. In Johnson, we add a a player allstar potential, that we will control for the next 4-5 years? Talent like that is rarely available outside of the lottery.

There are a lot more things to consider outside of just raw, potential talent?

Bro quit on his team, was ineligible his last year in HS, and when did did play at Duke they weren't even ranked in top 25 and barely suffered after he left?

Meanwhile guy like Grimes leads his team to a final four appearance.

The Knicks all but told us that they HEAVILY consider things like character, readiness, proven track record regarding their selections. That's their MO.

Why do you think they would make a heavy exception for him?

Did Mitch quit on his team?

Johnson opted out during a global pandemic. He did what was best for himself and his health. He didn't owe Duke anything.

No....Mitch did not quit on his HS team. In fact he was ranked with all the top centers that year. And those centers was drafted early in the 1st round.

No...Mitch did not quit on his college team. He never played. Got a full ride scholarship to western Kentucky, but had some bad advice from mentors to sit out. And workout at Lifetime Fitness. To prepare for the nba.

You're leaving a lot out.
Mitch showed up and enrolled in summer classes at WK and even practiced with the team. He then left campus without telling anyone at the school. Just cleaned out his dorm and left. WK coach Rick Stansbury suspended Mitch from the team indefinitely. Stansbury flew to New Orleans to talk to Mitch. Mitch basically said he didn't want to play there anymore, so WK gave him his release. Robinson visited LSU only to have them back off. Then visited Kansas only to have them back off. Mitch worried he might have to sit out a year if he transferred to New Orleans, flirted with the idea of going overseas.
After all that Robinson went back to Western Kentucky, where he knew with 100 percent certainty that he would be eligible to play. After he enrolled at WK he quit the team again to focus on the draft.
Look, I don't have a problem with what Mitch did. I just have a problem with people calling out Jalen Johnson but are so forgiving of Robinson

We don’t even know if there is anything to call Johnson out about. Coach K didn’t have anything negative to say about him. That Duke team was very mediocre. They didn’t have enough talent to win games. At some point in the season they made an emphasis to play more team oriented ball because they just didn’t have the individual talent. Looked to me like Johnson forced some individual play and it didn’t work out well and he got benched. I think he was also dealing with a foot injury. I don’t think anyone else from that team got drafted, at least not in the first round.

I don't know if the Knicks FO even talked to JJ pre-draft and, if they did, what was discussed, but seeing all the moving around he did, and his habit of not following through on commitments, has to have scared a number of teams away.

Your speculation about Duke, team oriented ball, and Johnson forcing some individual play, could also have been a factor for teams who didn't take him, but I can only speculate on how teams evaluated the games he played at Duke.

BTW...I doubt if Coach K would say anything bad about a younger player like Johnson at this point in the kids career. I can't see him operating that way- he's too upbeat as a person, coach, and life teacher.

Until he shows he can operate in the half court at a NBA level he is a very flawed player. On top of that in regards to the Knicks he would have only made sense for them if he could operate in the half court as a SF. I do think getting some size there would have been nice, but by the time the Knicks picked all the taller wings were gone. Hopefully they can add somebody in next year’s draft or Knox starts playing like a NBA player.

Personally in regards to JJ. I think he is a PF in the league and the Knicks already have a talent glut there already with Randle and Obi.

wargames wrote:This thread is at best premature and at worst a waste of time.

Until he shows he can operate in the half court at a NBA level he is a very flawed player. On top of that in regards to the Knicks he would have only made sense for them if he could operate in the half court as a SF. I do think getting some size there would have been nice, but by the time the Knicks picked all the taller wings were gone. Hopefully they can add somebody in next year’s draft or Knox starts playing like a NBA player.

Personally in regards to JJ. I think he is a PF in the league and the Knicks already have a talent glut there already with Randle and Obi.

It's like muscle memory, some fans seem to be so used to being in permanent anguish/lament they don't know how to just support a team and be content anymore. We had a nice draft, there are always going to be players that turn out better after the spot you drafted at- that's life! I could understand when we were drafting Knox or Frank and had nothing, but we're in a different place now.

blkexec wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

martin wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Nalod wrote:6’7 RJ Barrett perhaps?
6’9 Randle? He really plays a lot o wing like minutes?

Maybe its not so much that Randle might not have elite defense on the parimeter but then seems most wings won’t be able to guard him. I can’t tell you the next 2 years either.

RJ and Randle's presence shouldn't prevent us from from taking the best player on the board. You can never have enough elite wings on the roster. In Johnson, we add a a player allstar potential, that we will control for the next 4-5 years? Talent like that is rarely available outside of the lottery.

There are a lot more things to consider outside of just raw, potential talent?

Bro quit on his team, was ineligible his last year in HS, and when did did play at Duke they weren't even ranked in top 25 and barely suffered after he left?

Meanwhile guy like Grimes leads his team to a final four appearance.

The Knicks all but told us that they HEAVILY consider things like character, readiness, proven track record regarding their selections. That's their MO.

Why do you think they would make a heavy exception for him?

Did Mitch quit on his team?

Johnson opted out during a global pandemic. He did what was best for himself and his health. He didn't owe Duke anything.

No....Mitch did not quit on his HS team. In fact he was ranked with all the top centers that year. And those centers was drafted early in the 1st round.

No...Mitch did not quit on his college team. He never played. Got a full ride scholarship to western Kentucky, but had some bad advice from mentors to sit out. And workout at Lifetime Fitness. To prepare for the nba.

I never heard of Mitch quitting on his HS team. He was a very highly ranked recruit and was originally supposed to play for one of the top D1 programs before switching to Western KY and then sitting out. Most likely what happened with that was he was paid less than expected under the table by both college programs so he said F it I’m out

martin wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Nalod wrote:6’7 RJ Barrett perhaps?
6’9 Randle? He really plays a lot o wing like minutes?

Maybe its not so much that Randle might not have elite defense on the parimeter but then seems most wings won’t be able to guard him. I can’t tell you the next 2 years either.

RJ and Randle's presence shouldn't prevent us from from taking the best player on the board. You can never have enough elite wings on the roster. In Johnson, we add a a player allstar potential, that we will control for the next 4-5 years? Talent like that is rarely available outside of the lottery.

There are a lot more things to consider outside of just raw, potential talent?

Bro quit on his team, was ineligible his last year in HS, and when did did play at Duke they weren't even ranked in top 25 and barely suffered after he left?

Meanwhile guy like Grimes leads his team to a final four appearance.

The Knicks all but told us that they HEAVILY consider things like character, readiness, proven track record regarding their selections. That's their MO.

Why do you think they would make a heavy exception for him?

Last year was an unusual year and I don't know all of the details that went into him making the decision to opt out of playing for Duke and focus on preparing for the league. The Knicks had 3 picks in the top 32, and could have walked away with Johnson, Grimes and McBride. If not for the character issues that may or may not be an issue, there is no way he is available @ 19.

The Hawks were quick to snatch him up right after we passed on him. I think its fair to say that the Hawks have done a great job of drafting and building that team into one of the best teams in the east. People want to give us the benefit of the doubt for passing on Johnson but do we also give the Hawks the benefit of the doubt for drafting him?

Nalod wrote:Amare Mom was going to jail and his family life was turbulent. He dropped in the draft.
Somtimes this all works out great and he was ROY and a great pick at the 9th spot.
NBA draft as we know is far from a perfect science! Read his Wiki early life story and its easy to see why he was a risky pick. He also had no played a lot of ball.
Some kids defy the odds. Most go with the odds. The odds are talent alone does not predict the outcome.
No team should be applauded or lauded for picks until they they are proven either way. Summer league is not enough. It just demonstrates proficiency or lack of within a subset of players that the youngest of players, recent draftees, and young free agents hoping to land a spot.

We coulda drafted an 18 year old Amare AND kept Marcus Camby

Thanks Layden

Nalod wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Nalod wrote:Amare Mom was going to jail and his family life was turbulent. He dropped in the draft.
Somtimes this all works out great and he was ROY and a great pick at the 9th spot.
NBA draft as we know is far from a perfect science! Read his Wiki early life story and its easy to see why he was a risky pick. He also had no played a lot of ball.
Some kids defy the odds. Most go with the odds. The odds are talent alone does not predict the outcome.
No team should be applauded or lauded for picks until they they are proven either way. Summer league is not enough. It just demonstrates proficiency or lack of within a subset of players that the youngest of players, recent draftees, and young free agents hoping to land a spot.

We coulda drafted an 18 year old Amare AND kept Marcus Camby

Thanks Layden

Uggh, have I taught you nothing? Neophyte GM dictates hundred million dollar decisions or the Starphucher owner who no matter who the GM, will do this until he pays Phil?
You also forget what a basket case Camby was at that time.

but u forget what a whitebread milquetoast utah-bred bastion of mediocrity layden was. couldn’t wait till that cracker exited.