fishmike wrote:

martin wrote:

fishmike wrote:yeah man when you look at Randle's ceiling it gets higher and higher because his passing is elevating other players. He's clearly now making others around him better, or at least easier. This is what we were desperate for from Melo. Randle with his 2 way play and team ball is looking more and more like a real cornerstone piece.

Feel like we could reach Tony Wroten level pages if we started to compare Melo and Randle with jrodmc having half those posts.

But it's starting to get legit. May need another season like this one to solidify

Melo is still easily a better scorer and more clutch but in terms of overall impact Randle's defense and passing put him neck and neck (today). Randle also has one year of playing like this under his belt. Melo was like a 5x all star at the same age and one of the NBA's elite scorers.

A guess a "fair" question would be at this point in their career who would you rather have? In terms of impact they are both pretty equal at this age. Hopefully Randle just stays healthy and continues on this arc. Problem with Melo was his cost. With Randle we got lucky and now have massive cap space, extra picks and young players already around him. With Melo we spent everything building a squad around Melo/Amare/Tyson and that was pretty good when they were all healthy but lacked the flexibility to grow beyond a 50ish win 2nd round team.

Respectfully disagree. Melo was *not* clutch in NYC. Missed most of his last possession shots.

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

xavier wrote:I’m by no means a Melo fan, probably a good part of that comes from the way he came to the Knicks, and regardless of that, I just didn’t consider him a player who could bring the title as the first option. However, do we compare here best Randle’s season (this one) and Melo’s average for the time he was in NY or do we also take his best season (2012/13)?

If we compare Randle's best season and Melo's average, then Randle is of course better, but if we compare their best seasons, then I would still say Melo was better. He was the league's top scorer that season and led the team to 54 wins, and he didn't have top players around him also.

+1
One word distances Melo from Randle on the better scale: Clutch

As stated, let's beat the chopped meat horse carcass once again, since it apparently needs restating: Not to take anything away from Randle this season, because I'm a huge fanboy, but he's not playing with a bunch of geriatric rejects on their last legs of retirement, or the likes of Fishlips, FluTyson and J(ust)R(eally) S(ycho)mith.

Not that Randle's playing with "top players" but RJ, IQ, Bullock, Burks and the rest are much better.

Melo had geriatric JKidd, Camby, Prigs, Kurt Thomas, Weed Wallace, Kmart. 30 and under crowd: FluT, Novak, useless Amare, Felton, JR, Iman. Hot for a minute: Copeland, Ronnie Brewer.

Hard to compare players.

Melo:    37 minutes, 28.7ppg,  6.9rbs, 2.6 assists, .500efg, 38%3pt.
Julius:  37 minutes, 22.9ppg, 10.8rbs, 6.0 assists, .522efg, 41%3pt.

I think I would take "Fat" Raymond Felton 9/10 over Payton.

No you wouldn't, his last yr here was the worst of his career 29% from 3, 39% overall.

But ask yourself this.....Why sign a bench player to be your starting PG, then get mad at the player for not playing above and beyond, and give him a NTC because he gave you a bit of a discount.

This is all on the FO.

Knicks didnt "give him" a NTC. Thats how those 1 year deals work. Go look it up and quit making **** up

Are you really that DUMB

The knicks offered payton a contract that includes a NTC...I don't give a rats ass how it structured because they didn't have to agree to that BS..Payton didn't hang LEON off a balcony by his LEGS Like SUGE Knight was his AGENT

no they didnt. I have rocks in my garden that are smarter than you. Here's how it works:

someone smarter than 1248 wrote:Bird rights, Early Bird rights and Non-Bird rights are all mechanisms that allow teams to go above the salary cap to retain their own players. Trades usually have no effect on those rights, but that’s not the case with players on one-year contracts. A team that acquires a player on a one-year deal via trade can’t use any form of Bird rights to re-sign that player the following offseason. The player often stands to lose financially in such a case, so the NBA allows players on one-year contracts to block trades. Despite this, some players allow trades to go through anyway, as Marreese Speights did last year when the Grizzlies sent him to the Cavaliers.

So just to sum up it was NOT a no trade clause. Its part of the NBA's CBA for players on 1 year deals.

Ahhh duhhh DUH duhh duuuuuhhhh

He has a NTC that the FO agreed to do no matter the circumstance. They could have put a team option (like mills did) Knowing you were looking to possibly flip these guys if a trade comes up.

Doesn't even matter at this point anyway, the team is playing well and Payton is not as bad as some of you making out to be, he has a lot to do with where we are today.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/TommyBeer/status/1383404966577016840

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

xavier wrote:I’m by no means a Melo fan, probably a good part of that comes from the way he came to the Knicks, and regardless of that, I just didn’t consider him a player who could bring the title as the first option. However, do we compare here best Randle’s season (this one) and Melo’s average for the time he was in NY or do we also take his best season (2012/13)?

If we compare Randle's best season and Melo's average, then Randle is of course better, but if we compare their best seasons, then I would still say Melo was better. He was the league's top scorer that season and led the team to 54 wins, and he didn't have top players around him also.

+1
One word distances Melo from Randle on the better scale: Clutch

As stated, let's beat the chopped meat horse carcass once again, since it apparently needs restating: Not to take anything away from Randle this season, because I'm a huge fanboy, but he's not playing with a bunch of geriatric rejects on their last legs of retirement, or the likes of Fishlips, FluTyson and J(ust)R(eally) S(ycho)mith.

Not that Randle's playing with "top players" but RJ, IQ, Bullock, Burks and the rest are much better.

Melo had geriatric JKidd, Camby, Prigs, Kurt Thomas, Weed Wallace, Kmart. 30 and under crowd: FluT, Novak, useless Amare, Felton, JR, Iman. Hot for a minute: Copeland, Ronnie Brewer.

Hard to compare players.

Melo:    37 minutes, 28.7ppg,  6.9rbs, 2.6 assists, .500efg, 38%3pt.
Julius:  37 minutes, 22.9ppg, 10.8rbs, 6.0 assists, .522efg, 41%3pt.

I think I would take "Fat" Raymond Felton 9/10 over Payton.

No you wouldn't, his last yr here was the worst of his career 29% from 3, 39% overall.

But ask yourself this.....Why sign a bench player to be your starting PG, then get mad at the player for not playing above and beyond, and give him a NTC because he gave you a bit of a discount.

This is all on the FO.

Knicks didnt "give him" a NTC. Thats how those 1 year deals work. Go look it up and quit making **** up

Are you really that DUMB

The knicks offered payton a contract that includes a NTC...I don't give a rats ass how it structured because they didn't have to agree to that BS..Payton didn't hang LEON off a balcony by his LEGS Like SUGE Knight was his AGENT

no they didnt. I have rocks in my garden that are smarter than you. Here's how it works:

someone smarter than 1248 wrote:Bird rights, Early Bird rights and Non-Bird rights are all mechanisms that allow teams to go above the salary cap to retain their own players. Trades usually have no effect on those rights, but that’s not the case with players on one-year contracts. A team that acquires a player on a one-year deal via trade can’t use any form of Bird rights to re-sign that player the following offseason. The player often stands to lose financially in such a case, so the NBA allows players on one-year contracts to block trades. Despite this, some players allow trades to go through anyway, as Marreese Speights did last year when the Grizzlies sent him to the Cavaliers.

So just to sum up it was NOT a no trade clause. Its part of the NBA's CBA for players on 1 year deals.

Ahhh duhhh DUH duhh duuuuuhhhh

He has a NTC that the FO agreed to do no matter the circumstance. They could have put a team option (like mills did) Knowing you were looking to possibly flip these guys if a trade comes up.

Doesn't even matter at this point anyway, the team is playing well and Payton is not as bad as some of you making out to be, he has a lot to do with where we are today.

fishmike wrote:

Panos wrote:

fishmike wrote:

martin wrote:

fishmike wrote:yeah man when you look at Randle's ceiling it gets higher and higher because his passing is elevating other players. He's clearly now making others around him better, or at least easier. This is what we were desperate for from Melo. Randle with his 2 way play and team ball is looking more and more like a real cornerstone piece.

Feel like we could reach Tony Wroten level pages if we started to compare Melo and Randle with jrodmc having half those posts.

But it's starting to get legit. May need another season like this one to solidify

Melo is still easily a better scorer and more clutch but in terms of overall impact Randle's defense and passing put him neck and neck (today). Randle also has one year of playing like this under his belt. Melo was like a 5x all star at the same age and one of the NBA's elite scorers.

A guess a "fair" question would be at this point in their career who would you rather have? In terms of impact they are both pretty equal at this age. Hopefully Randle just stays healthy and continues on this arc. Problem with Melo was his cost. With Randle we got lucky and now have massive cap space, extra picks and young players already around him. With Melo we spent everything building a squad around Melo/Amare/Tyson and that was pretty good when they were all healthy but lacked the flexibility to grow beyond a 50ish win 2nd round team.

Respectfully disagree. Melo was *not* clutch in NYC. Missed most of his last possession shots.

yeah that was really me being more diplomatic than anything else. Melo surely did have tons of big baskets in crunch time and there is surely a stronger body of work there for him vs. what Randle has done.

That being said what Randle is doing is special and RJ is sneaky blossoming under him as well.

Melo was the most clutch player in the league for a long time. Was early on for the Knicks. The decline was due to Melo being most of the offense in NY, because Amar'e couldnt stay healthy. The minutes and all that pounding the rock, caught up to him. The more he wore down, the less clutch he was.

From 2016:

According to ESPN Stats & Info, no player has hit more go-ahead field goals in the final five seconds of the fourth quarter or overtime than Anthony since 2003-04.

Melo had a nice long rest. changed his game, sped up his ISO game. Looks like his old self. Melo put getting a near max contract before getting help. He knew what he was getting into.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/statmuse/status/1384186398626902016

fishmike wrote:Randle is fantastic. He's a 2 way player who can score from anywhere and is a great guy. Total pro. All star. We need more guys like him. Not less. He's also one of the strongest dudes in the league.

Praying we sign another guy ready to take that next step like we did with Randle

Finding another “diamond in the rough” scenario, absolutely. Similar to jerami grant @ DET. Randle has earned every accolade he gets this year, but can’t help but feel if he were not playing under Thibs his numbers would be far more modest. Also worth considering, if role players like Bullock & Burks can benefit from our system and coaching and seemingly thrive, who else could?

Yeah ideally Randle is a second option ( but an excellent stop gap ). I’d ask Thibs ( who’s grossly overachieved in my mind ) please let the young guys play. Still feel like I don’t know what we have with OB1.

martin wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/nyknicks/status/1384229118175186946

Yessss! Been great to see him getting recognition for his hard work this season

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

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