It seems Thibs is resisting from making any big adjustments to his rotation. He has a defensive lockdown player at his disposal but is not willing to use him. This is why i think they are having a hard time beating teams with better records than the knicks.

After beating the bucks very early in the season it seems like the knicks havent won a game against the higher teir teams. Thibs is ready to live and die with Payton and Rose and the Knicks keep falling short as a result.

Insanity- doing things over and over again expecting a different outcome!

Jimbo5 wrote:KD is out, Harden got injured, this game was winnable! Then, Kyrie scored 40pts against Payton, Rose and Burks. Not giving Frank the opportunity to try to lockdown Kyrie is just a head scratcher. The coaching staff should have included Frank in their gameplan. They know to expect zero offense from frank, why not work around it. Atleast give him a chance to limit Kyrie's production.

It seems Thibs is resisting from making any big adjustments to his rotation. He has a defensive lockdown player at his disposal but is not willing to use him. This is why i think they are having a hard time beating teams with better records than the knicks.

After beating the bucks very early in the season it seems like the knicks havent won a game against the higher teir teams. Thibs is ready to live and die with Payton and Rose and the Knicks keep falling short as a result.

Insanity- doing things over and over again expecting a different outcome!

Same old same old. Every PG will continue to kill us until BOTH Payton and Rose get injured

blkexec wrote:

blkexec wrote:Well....we need Frank against the nets. They kill u on the perimeter.

Thibs resistance to adjust his rotation based on the opponent is killing us. Kyrie is not scoring 40 on Frank. But of course with no Frank, kyrie scores 40, we lose by 2. Come on thibs....we only have 1 lock down guard defender. It was an easy decision. But this is why players love thibs....and fans get frustrated.

I think Thibs just did the math and opted to play the guys who earned the rotation minutes

We need to stop pretending that Frank is Gary Payton.

fishmike wrote:We got 24 points from our PGS. We play Frank we get zero points, Kyrie only scores 20, we lose by 4 and the guys who all deserve playing time over Frank were like "great."

I think Thibs just did the math and opted to play the guys who earned the rotation minutes

That doesn't seem the right way to look at it, Thibs wouldn't have played Frank 48 minutes so you'd still get some points from the other PGs. Anyway it's up to Frank to find some consistency on offense and not that Dr Jekyll/Mr Hyde act of either looking rather decent or utterly hopeless, any coach will need to know what he can expect from a player game in game out.

Nalod wrote:Franks defense has kept him in the league and is legit. That he is still rostered says something. I just don’t know what it says.
The Knicks don’t have clear improvements. bench Payton and start Quick brings a different look. Not all of it good. Then there is the second unit that perhaps works worse with Payton. So we can bitch and moan all we want about frank on the bench but he does not bring the answer. Really he seems net neutral. They why not play him? Good question and from what I have seen Payton brings a compromise of good defense and a penetration skill that Thibs prefers. I get it. Don’t love it but Frank is not a PG and IQ seems more concerned about getting someone to bump him from behind and then if doubled he jumps and passes. League has scouted IQ fairly well. Rose is the real deal but his physical limitations are apparent. Otherwise he is still a max player.
Why not make a trade or sign somebody????? Its easy to type this thinking we can fix it with a name.

Yes. For me, IQ has a long way to go before he is even a legit PG off the bench no less starting. Good start as offense and looking for defender to foul him are qualities you need but he is absolutely lacking in running an offense or knowing what do to. He has a lot of room to grow. I don't think he will start next year either unless it is a dire situation with injury.

martin wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Jimbo5 wrote:KD is out, Harden got injured, this game was winnable! Then, Kyrie scored 40pts against Payton, Rose and Burks. Not giving Frank the opportunity to try to lockdown Kyrie is just a head scratcher. The coaching staff should have included Frank in their gameplan. They know to expect zero offense from frank, why not work around it. Atleast give him a chance to limit Kyrie's production.

It seems Thibs is resisting from making any big adjustments to his rotation. He has a defensive lockdown player at his disposal but is not willing to use him. This is why i think they are having a hard time beating teams with better records than the knicks.

After beating the bucks very early in the season it seems like the knicks havent won a game against the higher teir teams. Thibs is ready to live and die with Payton and Rose and the Knicks keep falling short as a result.

Insanity- doing things over and over again expecting a different outcome!

Same old same old. Every PG will continue to kill us until BOTH Payton and Rose get injured

not a headscratcher. Frank doesnt score and commits tons of fouls and has not helped the Knicks in any way shape or form. He just hasnt. What is headscratching is why fans think any coach would play Frank right now. Playing Frank is a throw **** on the wall and see if it sticks move. Go look at his game logs this year and tell me when/why/where/how any coach mid-game is gonna pull someone from the rotation for Frank. Stop watching Rudy and follow real sports. When Frank earns it he will get it

+100

Frank CAN be a very good one-on-one defender and he has displayed this on short occasion or even a long burst BUT it's just not adding up this year.

Thibs will stick with his rotation, regardless of the matchups. But just my opinion, I think we win the game against the Nets, if Kyrie had more of Franks defense on him than Payton. I also think Frank spreads the floor more than Payton. But hey, I'm not the coach, Thibs is. And what he says goes. I'm just a fan with some basketball experience.

If we not going to play our best 1 on 1 defender, then trade him for another 1 on 1 defender Thibs will play. I don't care what his name is. But we needed a defensive minded player on Kyrie. Payton used to be known for that, but I've seen his defense slip over time.

blkexec wrote:

martin wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Jimbo5 wrote:KD is out, Harden got injured, this game was winnable! Then, Kyrie scored 40pts against Payton, Rose and Burks. Not giving Frank the opportunity to try to lockdown Kyrie is just a head scratcher. The coaching staff should have included Frank in their gameplan. They know to expect zero offense from frank, why not work around it. Atleast give him a chance to limit Kyrie's production.

It seems Thibs is resisting from making any big adjustments to his rotation. He has a defensive lockdown player at his disposal but is not willing to use him. This is why i think they are having a hard time beating teams with better records than the knicks.

After beating the bucks very early in the season it seems like the knicks havent won a game against the higher teir teams. Thibs is ready to live and die with Payton and Rose and the Knicks keep falling short as a result.

Insanity- doing things over and over again expecting a different outcome!

Same old same old. Every PG will continue to kill us until BOTH Payton and Rose get injured

not a headscratcher. Frank doesnt score and commits tons of fouls and has not helped the Knicks in any way shape or form. He just hasnt. What is headscratching is why fans think any coach would play Frank right now. Playing Frank is a throw **** on the wall and see if it sticks move. Go look at his game logs this year and tell me when/why/where/how any coach mid-game is gonna pull someone from the rotation for Frank. Stop watching Rudy and follow real sports. When Frank earns it he will get it

+100

Frank CAN be a very good one-on-one defender and he has displayed this on short occasion or even a long burst BUT it's just not adding up this year.

Thibs will stick with his rotation, regardless of the matchups. But just my opinion, I think we win the game against the Nets, if Kyrie had more of Franks defense on him than Payton. I also think Frank spreads the floor more than Payton. But hey, I'm not the coach, Thibs is. And what he says goes. I'm just a fan with some basketball experience.

If we not going to play our best 1 on 1 defender, then trade him for another 1 on 1 defender Thibs will play. I don't care what his name is. But we needed a defensive minded player on Kyrie. Payton used to be known for that, but I've seen his defense slip over time.

Kyrie is who he is because he can't really be stop by any one player.

We don't lose games because we can't defend, we lose games because we stop playing team ball in the clutch, we have very little offense from the Center position, and our rebounding is avg at best.

frank does not solve any of our major concerns

ramtour420 wrote:Frank is the type of player that needs an offensive system where there is ball movement and sets to run. His best was under Miller, the only coach after MDA that had an offensive system. He was drafted to be in offensive system. Thibs focking system is ISO ball where the ball handler can break down his man and then dish or score. See Rose as an MVP when he was breaking all sorts of ankles. Basically non winning type of offense. Mike Woodsons offense. Larry Browns offense. It's only effective when you have a guard that can penetrate. Ariza was also very lost back then under Brown for similar reasons. As soon as Frank goes to a team with an offensive system he instantly becomes Most Improved Player candidate.

I agree with you. Tibs offense is eerily similar to what JVG ran with Houston and Spree a lot of iso ball. Low scoring affairs. Frank was doing well under Miller and mind you so was Knox. RJ and Mitchell got good development time under Miller. The three ball helps and Frank can hit it. But the problem is with Frank and he lacks aggression. Not sure system can change Franks game anymore.