EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:I am confused as to why an article written by an author whose intent was to look at Leon and what Rose has added to the team and some of the in's and out's of that needs to include anything about Perry?

If you write an article about the team being "rebuilt" by Rose (and only Rose) after a few months on the job. It becomes grade A BS, if the writer declines to mention who assembled and drafted most of those players. Who created the cap space to pursue more.

Otherwise it looks like the FO equivalent of being born on 3rd base and bragging about hitting a home run. Rose just got here, why are we suggesting that it all happened under his watch? Its dishonest, to put it nicely.

It's not dishonest. It's your assumptions that are wrong.

Not my assumption, your assumption about this article.........................is wrong.

Why praise Rose and include a reference to Mills and Perry feuding? You write an article about the team being "rebuilt". The only thing you write about the current GM is that he got into a squabble with the last team president? Really?

Whats the motivation? As you said, why mention him at all, if thats all you're going to write about him. What does this accomplish in an article about the team's current success? Except suggest that its all been about Rose. Sounds very "Dear Leader".

You are trying to make the article about what you want to discuss

Author chose a topic and his own timeline. This is nearing Don Quixote and his windmill, have at it.

Oh, also know that typically editors make a separate decision on what titles go on top of the article, not the author of said article. You can figure out how your "Rebuilt" fits

You're right about the title. Whats left out of an article can be just as, or more important than what's in it. This writer chose gossip about Perry, when discussing substantive change in the direction of the franchise. Thats what this writer choose to talk about. I choose to comment on that slight.

Those windmills come a-charging

I’m with Martin here. Mostly because this isn’t whitewashing the merits of what came before. I really wouldn’t care who collected all the grains of sand on a beach. It’s the person who builds the sandcastle that gets the credit.

The fact that this nearly same roster was a floundering mess last year and this year looks like a semi-competent team this year is credited to the new management.

The fact that they inherited the youngest roster in the NBA, a pile of draft picks but nearly no useful veterans doesn’t glorify the prior front office. The Knicks were widely projected to be the worst team in the league. The fact that those lemon’s are tasting like lemonade is a testament to the guy who mixed the drink, not the guy who bought lemons.

You cannot re-characterize the KP trade either. Perhaps a different FO retains KP, puts him on load management, signs a healthy Kevin Durant and wins a championship. Maybe KP gets healthy and is a key component to the Mavs winning a chip this year rendering our draft pick much less worthy. Maybe the FO drafts Kevin Knox 3.0 instead of Quickley. Martin’s windmills are everywhere. I’m looking for the half-starved horse.

I’m gonna go sip my lemonade KoolAid on the beach.

No one said the work was finished, only that the work had not been done by Rose alone. Shouldnt be like pulling teeth to get some posters to acknowledge this. Perry accomplished a lot in a short time. Considering the decades long FO dysfunction he inherited.

Before the franchise could walk, so to speak, it had to get out from the hole it was in. Thats what Perry accomplished with the moves he made. Kept the franchise from getting in deeper as well.

So far Rose has tinkered around the edges. He hasnt brought in a star yet. In his prime. Thats where the rubber meets the road.

It could quickly become “remember that time he screwed up the Knicks offseason by trading real assets for Victor Oladipo and Evan Fournier in an effort to recollect his former draft picks. Man... he telegraphed those moves.. guy doesn’t know when to fold a hand...”

Nalod wrote:Hire Larry Brown good. Not give him a roster he wants was bad.

Nalod wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Nalod wrote:Hire Larry Brown good. Not give him a roster he wants was bad.

Is that really true? From what I remembered the problem was Brown begging for players then soured on them after they arrived and wanted management to get rid of them. Steve Francis is the guy who immediately comes to mind. Brown told Isiah he needed that guy, Isiah got him, then Brown soon requested they get rid of him. Also, according to Isiah, Brown was going behind his back negotiating his own trades.

When you bring in Larry you bring in a remorseless alpha who takes the air in the room. I don’t doubt all the negative writing he got which was plenty. He was only here for one season!!!
This is a HOF incredible coach but the environment was all wrong for him. He just assumed he’d have a few years and they would give him what he wanted and it would work itself thru. My statement was simplistic in what could be a long long discussion. Let’s just say regardless of “blame” it was an awful fit for many reasons and trading the very young still under developed Ariza for Francis to be paired with Marbles was not a good idea no matter who is responsible.

The coach is responsible for the environment. It’s the coach’s primary responsibility.

EwingsGlass wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Nalod wrote:Hire Larry Brown good. Not give him a roster he wants was bad.

Is that really true? From what I remembered the problem was Brown begging for players then soured on them after they arrived and wanted management to get rid of them. Steve Francis is the guy who immediately comes to mind. Brown told Isiah he needed that guy, Isiah got him, then Brown soon requested they get rid of him. Also, according to Isiah, Brown was going behind his back negotiating his own trades.

When you bring in Larry you bring in a remorseless alpha who takes the air in the room. I don’t doubt all the negative writing he got which was plenty. He was only here for one season!!!
This is a HOF incredible coach but the environment was all wrong for him. He just assumed he’d have a few years and they would give him what he wanted and it would work itself thru. My statement was simplistic in what could be a long long discussion. Let’s just say regardless of “blame” it was an awful fit for many reasons and trading the very young still under developed Ariza for Francis to be paired with Marbles was not a good idea no matter who is responsible.

The coach is responsible for the environment. It’s the coach’s primary responsibility.

EwingsGlass wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Nalod wrote:Hire Larry Brown good. Not give him a roster he wants was bad.

Is that really true? From what I remembered the problem was Brown begging for players then soured on them after they arrived and wanted management to get rid of them. Steve Francis is the guy who immediately comes to mind. Brown told Isiah he needed that guy, Isiah got him, then Brown soon requested they get rid of him. Also, according to Isiah, Brown was going behind his back negotiating his own trades.

When you bring in Larry you bring in a remorseless alpha who takes the air in the room. I don’t doubt all the negative writing he got which was plenty. He was only here for one season!!!
This is a HOF incredible coach but the environment was all wrong for him. He just assumed he’d have a few years and they would give him what he wanted and it would work itself thru. My statement was simplistic in what could be a long long discussion. Let’s just say regardless of “blame” it was an awful fit for many reasons and trading the very young still under developed Ariza for Francis to be paired with Marbles was not a good idea no matter who is responsible.

The coach is responsible for the environment. It’s the coach’s primary responsibility.

We have some posters who cant let go of the fact they didnt want Thibs here calling him a retread and stuck in the 90s. Its indeed like "pulling teeth" when talking to folks who put their agendas before what is right in front of their eyes.

This is pretty much last year's roster + Burks, Rivers and a couple rookies. And yet the team is wildly improved. Why? Thibs. Who hired Thibs? Rose. Pulling teeth.

Lets pull some more teeth!

https://sny.tv/articles/julius-randle-talks-knicks-improvement-under-tom-thibodeau-we-just-have-a-confidence-and-belief-about-us-

Julius Randle wrote:“I would say that maybe we’ve exceeded other people’s expectations,” Randle told Redick. “I think if you’d have just been around our group on a day-to-day basis, we just have a confidence and belief about us, and it starts with Thibs and everything he’s doing, but we just go about things the right way every day and building the right habits. So, we just have a confidence and a belief about us every game that we play that we’re going to win the game.

Julius Randle wrote:“I will say this about Thibs, he’s a tough coach if you don’t like to be coached or if you don’t like to play or do things the right way, then he’s tough,” Randle said. “Thibs is a guy that… just expects a certain level of professionalism, he expects you to do things the right way, be prepared and do things the right way on a day-to-day basis, and if you don’t want to do that, then it’s gonna be tough.

“Honestly, man, he’s not as much of a hard--s as people think he is. The dude is super cool, like you can talk to him. He’s gonna kill me if he sees this, but he really is soft. You can talk to him. Thibs is dope. Honestly, he’s a players’ coach. This is the most fun that I’ve had as far as playing in the league, for sure.”

EwingsGlass wrote:Perry has been adequate. An improvement over the face plant that was Steve Mills. But there hasn’t been any magical upside to his moves. Nothing to write home about. He executed some moves. I loved the Elf signing the first time. Didn’t understand it the second. I thought the 1 year vet offseason a was a decent punt. But a 60 yard punt is still a punt and not a touchdown. I mean, not sure why we are making this about Perry. He has been decent. I’d bet a dollar they make Masai an offer before Perry. We will be looking back and saying, “remember that time Scott Perry didn’t screw up the Knicks roster those two years before they hired Masai Ujiri. Yeah, not messing up felt good for once.” But there isn’t much more than that to talk about.

It could quickly become “remember that time he screwed up the Knicks offseason by trading real assets for Victor Oladipo and Evan Fournier in an effort to recollect his former draft picks. Man... he telegraphed those moves.. guy doesn’t know when to fold a hand...”

Believe that any exec that gets a franchise off a 20 year treadmill is more than "adequate". Also had to convince ownership not to fall back on bad habits. Thats an achievement right there.

I would be very happy to see Ujiri hired. It would be an upgrade because Ujiri has a ring. Built a championship team. Dont want to see a CAA bro, brought in, with little experience.

fishmike wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Nalod wrote:Hire Larry Brown good. Not give him a roster he wants was bad.

Is that really true? From what I remembered the problem was Brown begging for players then soured on them after they arrived and wanted management to get rid of them. Steve Francis is the guy who immediately comes to mind. Brown told Isiah he needed that guy, Isiah got him, then Brown soon requested they get rid of him. Also, according to Isiah, Brown was going behind his back negotiating his own trades.

When you bring in Larry you bring in a remorseless alpha who takes the air in the room. I don’t doubt all the negative writing he got which was plenty. He was only here for one season!!!
This is a HOF incredible coach but the environment was all wrong for him. He just assumed he’d have a few years and they would give him what he wanted and it would work itself thru. My statement was simplistic in what could be a long long discussion. Let’s just say regardless of “blame” it was an awful fit for many reasons and trading the very young still under developed Ariza for Francis to be paired with Marbles was not a good idea no matter who is responsible.

The coach is responsible for the environment. It’s the coach’s primary responsibility.

agree. We are seeing that here and now. It might be the most important part of team building. Coach is responsible for the environment. He sets the tone. Who hired this coach? Was it Perry? No.. it was Rose.

We have some posters who cant let go of the fact they didnt want Thibs here calling him a retread and stuck in the 90s. Its indeed like "pulling teeth" when talking to folks who put their agendas before what is right in front of their eyes.

This is pretty much last year's roster + Burks, Rivers and a couple rookies. And yet the team is wildly improved. Why? Thibs. Who hired Thibs? Rose. Pulling teeth.

Lets pull some more teeth!

https://sny.tv/articles/julius-randle-talks-knicks-improvement-under-tom-thibodeau-we-just-have-a-confidence-and-belief-about-us-

Julius Randle wrote:“I would say that maybe we’ve exceeded other people’s expectations,” Randle told Redick. “I think if you’d have just been around our group on a day-to-day basis, we just have a confidence and belief about us, and it starts with Thibs and everything he’s doing, but we just go about things the right way every day and building the right habits. So, we just have a confidence and a belief about us every game that we play that we’re going to win the game.

Julius Randle wrote:“I will say this about Thibs, he’s a tough coach if you don’t like to be coached or if you don’t like to play or do things the right way, then he’s tough,” Randle said. “Thibs is a guy that… just expects a certain level of professionalism, he expects you to do things the right way, be prepared and do things the right way on a day-to-day basis, and if you don’t want to do that, then it’s gonna be tough.

“Honestly, man, he’s not as much of a hard--s as people think he is. The dude is super cool, like you can talk to him. He’s gonna kill me if he sees this, but he really is soft. You can talk to him. Thibs is dope. Honestly, he’s a players’ coach. This is the most fun that I’ve had as far as playing in the league, for sure.”

I was initially opposed to Thibs. Thought he couldn't relate to young players. Thought he was another Triangle re-tread that wouldn't adapt to the eFG based offenses of this NBA. I thought that the experiences of KAT and Wiggins would be repeated here. I thought he would force us to overpay for a broken down Derrick Rose. That he would muscle in his crowd of yes men. That he would get destroyed by the NY media.

I've been mostly wrong.

I know this thread has become the Perry fan club. One thing to point out is the collapse of Kentucky and resurgence of the Knicks with the absence/presence of Kenny Payne. We have other good coaches on that bench. This is purely anecdotal, but it seems like there is a correlation there. Interesting that Kentucky has public confrontations with its players now and the Knicks are all hugs and kisses.

My point is that environment is important.

EwingsGlass wrote:

fishmike wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Nalod wrote:Hire Larry Brown good. Not give him a roster he wants was bad.

Is that really true? From what I remembered the problem was Brown begging for players then soured on them after they arrived and wanted management to get rid of them. Steve Francis is the guy who immediately comes to mind. Brown told Isiah he needed that guy, Isiah got him, then Brown soon requested they get rid of him. Also, according to Isiah, Brown was going behind his back negotiating his own trades.

When you bring in Larry you bring in a remorseless alpha who takes the air in the room. I don’t doubt all the negative writing he got which was plenty. He was only here for one season!!!
This is a HOF incredible coach but the environment was all wrong for him. He just assumed he’d have a few years and they would give him what he wanted and it would work itself thru. My statement was simplistic in what could be a long long discussion. Let’s just say regardless of “blame” it was an awful fit for many reasons and trading the very young still under developed Ariza for Francis to be paired with Marbles was not a good idea no matter who is responsible.

The coach is responsible for the environment. It’s the coach’s primary responsibility.

agree. We are seeing that here and now. It might be the most important part of team building. Coach is responsible for the environment. He sets the tone. Who hired this coach? Was it Perry? No.. it was Rose.

We have some posters who cant let go of the fact they didnt want Thibs here calling him a retread and stuck in the 90s. Its indeed like "pulling teeth" when talking to folks who put their agendas before what is right in front of their eyes.

This is pretty much last year's roster + Burks, Rivers and a couple rookies. And yet the team is wildly improved. Why? Thibs. Who hired Thibs? Rose. Pulling teeth.

Lets pull some more teeth!

https://sny.tv/articles/julius-randle-talks-knicks-improvement-under-tom-thibodeau-we-just-have-a-confidence-and-belief-about-us-

Julius Randle wrote:“I would say that maybe we’ve exceeded other people’s expectations,” Randle told Redick. “I think if you’d have just been around our group on a day-to-day basis, we just have a confidence and belief about us, and it starts with Thibs and everything he’s doing, but we just go about things the right way every day and building the right habits. So, we just have a confidence and a belief about us every game that we play that we’re going to win the game.

Julius Randle wrote:“I will say this about Thibs, he’s a tough coach if you don’t like to be coached or if you don’t like to play or do things the right way, then he’s tough,” Randle said. “Thibs is a guy that… just expects a certain level of professionalism, he expects you to do things the right way, be prepared and do things the right way on a day-to-day basis, and if you don’t want to do that, then it’s gonna be tough.

“Honestly, man, he’s not as much of a hard--s as people think he is. The dude is super cool, like you can talk to him. He’s gonna kill me if he sees this, but he really is soft. You can talk to him. Thibs is dope. Honestly, he’s a players’ coach. This is the most fun that I’ve had as far as playing in the league, for sure.”

I was initially opposed to Thibs. Thought he couldn't relate to young players. Thought he was another Triangle re-tread that wouldn't adapt to the eFG based offenses of this NBA. I thought that the experiences of KAT and Wiggins would be repeated here. I thought he would force us to overpay for a broken down Derrick Rose. That he would muscle in his crowd of yes men. That he would get destroyed by the NY media.

I've been mostly wrong.

I know this thread has become the Perry fan club. One thing to point out is the collapse of Kentucky and resurgence of the Knicks with the absence/presence of Kenny Payne. We have other good coaches on that bench. This is purely anecdotal, but it seems like there is a correlation there. Interesting that Kentucky has public confrontations with its players now and the Knicks are all hugs and kisses.

My point is that environment is important.

EwingsGlass wrote:I know this thread has become the Perry fan club.