joec32033 wrote:

martin wrote:

joec32033 wrote:I personally think Frank has had opportunities. Then he gets hurt. Usually it ends up being the worst groin in the league. Or shows little to no improvement when he does play. The kid has talent, FIBA Frank showed us that. But somehow he was able to show it by making it through a few solid weeks of ball. He doesn't do that here. Hopefully he can somehow figure out how to translate his international game to the NBA. If not, he won't be the first player nor will he be the last whose game was better suited for international rules and not the NBA.

I think that Frank came into the league about 2 years too early, maybe even 3. At the NBA level you have to have some sort of bulk to your body and the personality to match what is going on at the level; Frank had neither.

Could be that his body just won't hold up - GS almost traded Steph Curry for those same reasons.

We don't even know how Frank got hurt and what the real deal is with his knee right now.

I agree. But the big difference with Curry's injuries is they knew what it was. Ankles. He had surgeries. I'm assuming special shoes.

How do you fix a bad groin?

Also, I'll be honest, I put a lot of stock in Hahn's insight on Frank only wanting to be a PG. It makes a little sense why the Knicks kept trotting him out there as a PG when it was obvious that his skills could be better used at the 2 or even the 3 sometimes and they never tried it..

Me too but I temper it down just a little bit cause media types do have to be overly bombastic just to get noticed. Frank is not a starting PG, everyone should know it but I understand why Frank wants to be in that role; it'll get him the most $$ and that's what his goals are. The team has different goals and there is probably a better fit for Frank within the team.

joec32033 wrote:

martin wrote:

joec32033 wrote:I personally think Frank has had opportunities. Then he gets hurt. Usually it ends up being the worst groin in the league. Or shows little to no improvement when he does play. The kid has talent, FIBA Frank showed us that. But somehow he was able to show it by making it through a few solid weeks of ball. He doesn't do that here. Hopefully he can somehow figure out how to translate his international game to the NBA. If not, he won't be the first player nor will he be the last whose game was better suited for international rules and not the NBA.

I think that Frank came into the league about 2 years too early, maybe even 3. At the NBA level you have to have some sort of bulk to your body and the personality to match what is going on at the level; Frank had neither.

Could be that his body just won't hold up - GS almost traded Steph Curry for those same reasons.

We don't even know how Frank got hurt and what the real deal is with his knee right now.

I agree. But the big difference with Curry's injuries is they knew what it was. Ankles. He had surgeries. I'm assuming special shoes.

How do you fix a bad groin?

Also, I'll be honest, I put a lot of stock in Hahn's insight on Frank only wanting to be a PG. It makes a little sense why the Knicks kept trotting him out there as a PG when it was obvious that his skills could be better used at the 2 or even the 3 sometimes and they never tried it..

I'm a little skeptical about Hahn's report. What power does the struggling 8th overall pick have to dictate any parameters? I mean, Fizdale had him playing the 3. But, to answer your second question, it's because they had no choice. They spoonfed DSJ minutes and tried to look everywhere else, but Frank proved to be the better option at the time. I won't even argue that Frank deserves to be in the current rotation. I will say he could add value as a situational player tho.

I dont like buying high but he's 26. This is the guy. I think so long as you keep IQ/Mitch/RJ in place you give up Frank/Knox/Obi and likely 3 FRPs (like both this year and the 2nd Dallas pick)

We may not be able to land a Lebron or Anthony Davis but that would leave us (under contract)
PG IQ
SG RJ
SF Grant
PF Randle
C Mitch
Bench: Rose, Rivers, Iggy

joec32033 wrote:
I'm confused. Seems like you are agreeing with me then placing the blame on the team. That is the exact opposite of what I am doing. That may have been true in years prior. It isn't this year.

I am placing blame squarely on these 2 particular young players.

First I will make it quick with Frank. He is always hurt and Hahn said at one point he refused to fully commit to anything but being a full time PG.

On Knox, much deeper. He should be starting. His skill set dictates he should be starting for them. The fact he can't beat out NBA journeymen 3 years into his NBA career is a problem. I am pointing out how if us as fans can see that if Knox's skillset is what the starting unit and team in general needs, there is little to no doubt that THIS coach and his staff know it. The fact that Knox can't EARN his playing time after 3 years-there is still a learning curve but this long in he should be showing something.

Bottom line is if these players who BOTH have skills this team can utilize and would make the team better, and they still can't get on the floor, is not a coaching problem. It is a player problem. And don't say Thibs doesn't play young players. He was playing Mitch, is playing RJ, Quick, Obi (when he can).

Knox and Frank not playing rests directly on those player's shoulders.

I don't know what to say. We agree that Knox in theory has both the physical predisposition and skillset to be a good forward in today’s league. But it's clear all these years he have not progressed even close to what we had hoped. What I said didn’t go against Thibs, I’m talking about the whole period since he came on the team.

Even in the draft reports, it was mentioned that his problem could be the "motor" and that turned out to be true. It's his fault, that's not in dispute at all, but it's hard to shake the impression that even though he's obviously not a blue collar prospect, Pop or Carlisle would have made him a much more useful player so far.

Thibs found the condition as he found it and the forward positions are quite full now so it is understandable that Knox does not have too much space.

xavier wrote:

joec32033 wrote:
I'm confused. Seems like you are agreeing with me then placing the blame on the team. That is the exact opposite of what I am doing. That may have been true in years prior. It isn't this year.

I am placing blame squarely on these 2 particular young players.

First I will make it quick with Frank. He is always hurt and Hahn said at one point he refused to fully commit to anything but being a full time PG.

On Knox, much deeper. He should be starting. His skill set dictates he should be starting for them. The fact he can't beat out NBA journeymen 3 years into his NBA career is a problem. I am pointing out how if us as fans can see that if Knox's skillset is what the starting unit and team in general needs, there is little to no doubt that THIS coach and his staff know it. The fact that Knox can't EARN his playing time after 3 years-there is still a learning curve but this long in he should be showing something.

Bottom line is if these players who BOTH have skills this team can utilize and would make the team better, and they still can't get on the floor, is not a coaching problem. It is a player problem. And don't say Thibs doesn't play young players. He was playing Mitch, is playing RJ, Quick, Obi (when he can).

Knox and Frank not playing rests directly on those player's shoulders.

I don't know what to say. We agree that Knox in theory has both the physical predisposition and skillset to be a good forward in today’s league. But it's clear all these years he have not progressed even close to what we had hoped. What I said didn’t go against Thibs, I’m talking about the whole period since he came on the team.

Even in the draft reports, it was mentioned that his problem could be the "motor" and that turned out to be true. It's his fault, that's not in dispute at all, but it's hard to shake the impression that even though he's obviously not a blue collar prospect, Pop or Carlisle would have made him a much more useful player so far.

Thibs found the condition as he found it and the forward positions are quite full now so it is understandable that Knox does not have too much space.

There are 12th men on teams that Pop and Carlisle coach too. I think the saying you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink applies here.

martin wrote:

fishmike wrote:more I think about this the more I am willing to go big on this guy. He's a ball mover, long (7'3 wingpan), he can shoot... he's athletic. He's a piece that not only balances your offense but solidifies your defense. A starting 5 of IQ/RJ/Grant/Randle/Mitch is a potential defensive juggernaut that Thibs could really do some damage with.

I dont like buying high but he's 26. This is the guy. I think so long as you keep IQ/Mitch/RJ in place you give up Frank/Knox/Obi and likely 3 FRPs (like both this year and the 2nd Dallas pick)

We may not be able to land a Lebron or Anthony Davis but that would leave us (under contract)
PG IQ
SG RJ
SF Grant
PF Randle
C Mitch
Bench: Rose, Rivers, Iggy

It's unfortunate but this is 1 year too late; the time to get him was this past offseason. I don't think Detroit are sellers anyway, they barely have a team and it would just like the Knicks taking offers for Julius - ain't happening.

Grant would have been PERFECT next to Julius and within Thibs system.

Knicks got to find their own without having to give up assets. I don't know if a 1 year deal is the path they want or something more permanent. Tony Snell? I don't watch him play but he has that 3&D vibe being able to play SF.

Yes Grant would have been incredible. Most of us thought he was a PF, but he's clearly improved his perimeter game a lot. I still believe given his age and contract we should offer Toppin and at least 2 first round picks (maybe 3). He's worth it. Given Detroit's position as a basement dweller, i would think they would consider that a big win. They are rebuilding with no rush in mind. Grant is the same age at Randle and would be a major upgrade over Bullock in the starting lineup on both ends of the floor.