GustavBahler wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Uptown wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Uptown wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:

Nalod wrote:Westbrook hung 27 and seven last season.
He is not coming WITH PICKS as a dump. I can’t tell you his value nor do I think he is right for this team but I can’t see at age 31 this guy being treaded like he is cooked.

Ditto. I think that’s a pipe-dream for people that want him on the Knicks. He hasn’t really shown signs of physically slowing down either, even though that’s bound to happen.

The price for him is going to be really high just as it was high when the Rockets got him. The Rockets have every right to put a high price tag on him. If Westy doesn’t like it then too bad. He is under contract. The league needs to take control here a little anyway even though I tend to side with the players.

And the Knicks should have never had an eye on him in the first place. He never made sense and neither does Harden.

Then who makes sense, Because young stars like (booker, Mitchell, Murry, Kat, Jackson) are not coming here via trade or FA.

The idea of putting a veteran ALL star is to help build the confidence of your youth, the culture, winning habits.

As long as you think the right way to develop is to get guys around the same age, we are going to be a very bad team, because thats not the way stars are born.

A loss to most players under 24 is another day in the clubs after the loss, a loss to a vet result in the gym/film room after the loss..

Leon Rose-led Knicks will be rewarded for rare patience in rebuilding effort
The Knicks are finally acting like a typical rebuilding team

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/leon-rose-led-knicks-will-be-rewarded-for-rare-patience-in-rebuilding-effort/

By Sam Quinn
Dec 1, 2020 at 9:48 am ET

New Knicks regimes can usually be judged by how quickly it takes them to make a bad decision. Over the past two decades and change, almost every new front office has tried to put its stamp on the team immediately to disastrous results. Scott Layden gave Latrell Sprewell a five-year max contract extension less than three months into his tenure. Isiah Thomas only needed two weeks to trade away his team's future for Stephon Marbury. Steve Mills broke both of their records by torpedoing his tenure before it even began. He signed Tim Hardaway Jr. to a four-year, $72 million deal while David Griffin was en route to New York to interview for the team's presidency, effectively scaring him off of the job and opening the door for Mills to claim it.

Other regimes have started more promisingly but succumbed to the same temptations. Phil Jackson re-signed Carmelo Anthony at his peak and drafted Kristaps Porzingis before showing his true colors by burning his cap space on Joakim Noah, Courtney Lee and Derrick Rose. Donnie Walsh spent two years meticulously carving out cap space, and the result was the best stretch of Knicks basketball this century: three consecutive playoff berths and a series win. But he resigned, and replacement, Glen Grunwald, immediately wasted his amnesty clause on Chauncey Billups to sign Tyson Chandler when it could have later been used to create the flexibility to add Chris Paul.

The common thread is impatience. Things go wrong in New York when the Knicks hit fast forward, seeking out or retaining big-name players when doing so didn't make sense in the organization's present context. For months, the Leon Rose administration appeared destined to make the same mistakes. The Knicks were linked to Chris Paul ... and Russell Westbrook ... and Victor Oladipo ... and Gordon Hayward. How close they came to connecting on such an ill-advised home run swing is unknowable, but also irrelevant. Even if they were interested, they set a price and stuck to it. Restraint is a step toward patience.

And patience is what the Knicks needed this offseason. That has nothing to do with their previous foibles. In fact, it's the opposite. The Knicks, as presently constructed, are a rebuilding team. The sensible approach to having a rebuilding Knicks team is to act like a rebuilding team instead of acting like the Knicks. The former somewhat consistently yields winning basketball. The latter inevitably leads to disaster.

There was no scenario in which the addition of a Hayward or a Westbrook would have launched the Knicks into short-term championship contention. Given Atlanta's improvements, it probably wouldn't have gotten them into the Eastern Conference's top eight either. But it would have clogged their cap sheet, deprived their youngsters of badly needed developmental touches and artificially created unwarranted expectations. A team led by Westbrook, RJ Barrett and Mitchell Robinson shouldn't make the playoffs, but good luck convincing James Dolan of that.

They are the sort of moves a team makes when it views merely reaching the postseason as a worthwhile goal. Eventually it might become one, but as a stepping stone rather than a destination. The ultimate objective in New York will always be championships, and a playoff pursuit would have proven counterproductive on that front with the loaded 2021 NBA Draft looming. A star in his 30s might be ill-advised for this roster, but a teenaged one is a different story. Atlanta, Charlotte and Detroit all made big win-now splashes. The path to the bottom, save a surprisingly inactive Cleveland team, is unobstructed. The reward for patience is another top young talent.

But the 2020-21 season was all about developing the incumbents. Barrett and Robinson were miscast on a power forward-centric roster last season. This year's roster hasn't exactly been upgraded. Free-agent additions Nerlens Noel and Austin Rivers don't exactly improve New York's spacing. Ball-hog extraordinaire Julius Randle remains in place. The Knicks probably could have made better immediate use of their cap space. But they didn't exactly make life harder on Barrett and Robinson either. Robinson should become a full-time starter for the first time in his career. If Obi Toppin joins him in the frontcourt, the Knicks will at least have a modicum of shooting. Fellow rookie Immanuel Quickley brings some off the bench as well. Spacing is easy enough to find even at this stage of free agency when teams are willing to compromise for it. Defensive sacrifices aren't as painful to teams without immediate ambitions.

Rose's regime appears to be the first in recent Knicks history without them, or at least the will to surrender such fantasies when faced with reality. That will is going to be tested. Slow starts tend to produce calls for fast action. Westbrook and Oladipo rumors aren't going anywhere so long as their situations remain unsettled. Buckle up if any of Rose's former CAA clients become available. There's a long way to go here.

But for the first time in two decades, the Knicks seem at least open to acknowledging that. They aren't acting desperately. They aren't skipping steps. They're acting like any other rebuilding team. They're giving their young players opportunities instead of trying to cherry-pick mercenaries from other teams. They're spending their cap space on assets instead of veterans (three second-round picks just for facilitating an Ed Davis trade!)

They've put off this regime's first great mistake. That mistake will come eventually. Even Pat Riley and Masai Ujiri have misses. But Knicks history is unkind to executives who make those mistakes early. Rose hasn't, and even if most of the hard work still remains, it's a barrier most of his predecessors failed to clear. It's the first step toward eventually turning the Knicks into a real winner.

Great read!!! Thanks for posting!

Was a very good article. Surprised that Perry's role in avoiding the pitfalls of past GMs, was obscured. Being smart with cap space, not getting taken in deals, started with Perry.

Should get some credit.

Good point...Right before the trade deadline, there were rumors that represented two separate ideals. On one hand, we were willing to trade draft picks and absorb bloated contracts of D'Angelo Russell and other rumored players. These were the type of short sighted moves Perry and Mills said we were done making. On the other hand, we were going to stick to plan and be smart about the cap by trading one or two of our assets (Morris and others that were on one year deals) to collect draft picks. In the end, Mills was fired, Perry remained and the path we took was to collect assets as opposed to trading them away. It's clear that Mills was the one the deviated from the plan while Perry stood firm. This is why Perry is still standing. He does deserve credit for that. Hopefully, we can continue to be smart...

We have talked many times “panic” and the one constant is Dolan. I don’t prescribe our issues have been the GM’s except for Isiah who was in Dolans head even after he left.
Dolan also sees the team thru “revenue” and while melo might have had issues on the court he was popular and the face of the franchise. I think Phil thought he could at least get us to the playoffs and build out a Triangle culture. Not a bad idea, just could not execute it for reasons well discussed.
It does seem Mills tried to placate Dolan and hold his job. I get that. I give Perry passes because he was not driving the ship then nor does he now. THis franchise is driven by Leon Rose. Does Perry stay. Beyond his contract. I have no idea. Is he measured for how well the development for who remains (if they remain)? Perhaps to some degree. Perry did not hire Fizdales and company coaching and I don’t know how much he is responsible for this current crew.
In the end I don’t really care who does what. Its on the court that matters and moves off it.
Blame and Fault are over rated. At the end of the day someone is accountable so its natural to want heads to roll.
We don’t know the measure for Perry via his job description from Leon. Perry was kept thinking the draft was in June. It was November. We had plenty of time to replace him. Perry is the only hold over from the past regime. Things are different now. MIlls is gone. Dolan invested a lot of money with this new group.
Things are thus far reasonable. Leon is trying to low ball his starphuchs which is ok. Other than that we drafted well and we are giving our yoot one more shot. Thats not “Perry vs. Mills”, thats just logic.

Mills signed THJ.No contracts like that given out after Perry got the job. Coincidence?

They have the worst roster in the league. Not only that we have done a poor job of drafting and developing talent. Not signing players isn't really the hallmark of a skilled GM. I'm still trying to figure out why he got the job in the first place.

Perry came in as Melo was on his way out. He had a near max deal, an NTC, and a trade kicker. The injuries were piling on as well. Perry also got KP as he was on his way out. He was in the middle of rehabbing from major surgery. Had recently been in a brawl. Faced what turned out to be false rape allegations. KP wanted out, Melo wanted out, before Perry got the job.

Perry also had Noah's contract on the books as well. THJ with his expensive 4 year deal. Timmy played hard, but was missing a lot of games. There was also Lee's contract, at his age.

It never ceases to amaze me, that with these FACTS. Some of you still believe Perry should have turned the Knicks into an instant playoff team in 2 years. That Perry should have received a treasure chest of picks and players, above what he got for two frequently injured stars, and a starter who was missing big parts of the season.

On top of that, Perry was supposed to overcome 20 years of mismanagement, and instantly make the Knicks, one of the most desireable destinations in the league. Should have asked Perry to crap ice cream while you're at it.

Fizdale was one of the most in demand coaches in the league at the time. Didnt work out.

In 2 years with Perry as GM, we have more cap space, more picks, than we've ever had. In 2 seasons.
But thats not enough for some of you. The job should have been finished. FAs should have been pounding on the door of Perry's office, begging to be a Knick.

Perry didnt give out any long term deals, cap killers, quick fixes with long term deals. He did what he should have done. 2 years wasnt fast enough for some of you. Ridiculous

+1

So when I hear BE PATIENT coming from the front office (heard it from walsh, heard it from phil, heard it a million times from Mills)
Being Patient has never ever ever ever ever ever ever worked in NY, so why would it work now.

The one person that never used the words BE PATIENT was Glenn, and he's the one president that has had the most successfull season this franchise has had in 22 yrs..and you know why he was successful..He had Legitimate POINT GUARDS..FELTON, PRIGGS, KIDD..

GustavBahler wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:You lose you get replaced, regardless of the money you saved, or the money you spent, regardless of a rebuild, a retool. YOU WILL BE FIRED WHEN YOU LOSE..

So when I hear BE PATIENT coming from the front office (heard it from walsh, heard it from phil, heard it a million times from Mills)
Being Patient has never ever ever ever ever ever ever worked in NY, so why would it work now.

The one person that never used the words BE PATIENT was Glenn, and he's the one president that has had the most successfull season this franchise has had in 22 yrs..and you know why he was successful..He had Legitimate POINT GUARDS..FELTON, PRIGGS, KIDD..

Lets hear it then. 2 years to completely rebuild a franchise with a flawed roster, and a piss poor rep is long enough. Okay, re-write the first 2 seasons. How should it have been done? Details plz.

What are we doing different from what mills did last off season beside holding on to cap space that if you dont use you have to have give it to the players on your roster anyway.

GustavBahler wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Uptown wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Uptown wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:

Nalod wrote:Westbrook hung 27 and seven last season.
He is not coming WITH PICKS as a dump. I can’t tell you his value nor do I think he is right for this team but I can’t see at age 31 this guy being treaded like he is cooked.

Ditto. I think that’s a pipe-dream for people that want him on the Knicks. He hasn’t really shown signs of physically slowing down either, even though that’s bound to happen.

The price for him is going to be really high just as it was high when the Rockets got him. The Rockets have every right to put a high price tag on him. If Westy doesn’t like it then too bad. He is under contract. The league needs to take control here a little anyway even though I tend to side with the players.

And the Knicks should have never had an eye on him in the first place. He never made sense and neither does Harden.

Then who makes sense, Because young stars like (booker, Mitchell, Murry, Kat, Jackson) are not coming here via trade or FA.

The idea of putting a veteran ALL star is to help build the confidence of your youth, the culture, winning habits.

As long as you think the right way to develop is to get guys around the same age, we are going to be a very bad team, because thats not the way stars are born.

A loss to most players under 24 is another day in the clubs after the loss, a loss to a vet result in the gym/film room after the loss..

Leon Rose-led Knicks will be rewarded for rare patience in rebuilding effort
The Knicks are finally acting like a typical rebuilding team

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/leon-rose-led-knicks-will-be-rewarded-for-rare-patience-in-rebuilding-effort/

By Sam Quinn
Dec 1, 2020 at 9:48 am ET

New Knicks regimes can usually be judged by how quickly it takes them to make a bad decision. Over the past two decades and change, almost every new front office has tried to put its stamp on the team immediately to disastrous results. Scott Layden gave Latrell Sprewell a five-year max contract extension less than three months into his tenure. Isiah Thomas only needed two weeks to trade away his team's future for Stephon Marbury. Steve Mills broke both of their records by torpedoing his tenure before it even began. He signed Tim Hardaway Jr. to a four-year, $72 million deal while David Griffin was en route to New York to interview for the team's presidency, effectively scaring him off of the job and opening the door for Mills to claim it.

Other regimes have started more promisingly but succumbed to the same temptations. Phil Jackson re-signed Carmelo Anthony at his peak and drafted Kristaps Porzingis before showing his true colors by burning his cap space on Joakim Noah, Courtney Lee and Derrick Rose. Donnie Walsh spent two years meticulously carving out cap space, and the result was the best stretch of Knicks basketball this century: three consecutive playoff berths and a series win. But he resigned, and replacement, Glen Grunwald, immediately wasted his amnesty clause on Chauncey Billups to sign Tyson Chandler when it could have later been used to create the flexibility to add Chris Paul.

The common thread is impatience. Things go wrong in New York when the Knicks hit fast forward, seeking out or retaining big-name players when doing so didn't make sense in the organization's present context. For months, the Leon Rose administration appeared destined to make the same mistakes. The Knicks were linked to Chris Paul ... and Russell Westbrook ... and Victor Oladipo ... and Gordon Hayward. How close they came to connecting on such an ill-advised home run swing is unknowable, but also irrelevant. Even if they were interested, they set a price and stuck to it. Restraint is a step toward patience.

And patience is what the Knicks needed this offseason. That has nothing to do with their previous foibles. In fact, it's the opposite. The Knicks, as presently constructed, are a rebuilding team. The sensible approach to having a rebuilding Knicks team is to act like a rebuilding team instead of acting like the Knicks. The former somewhat consistently yields winning basketball. The latter inevitably leads to disaster.

There was no scenario in which the addition of a Hayward or a Westbrook would have launched the Knicks into short-term championship contention. Given Atlanta's improvements, it probably wouldn't have gotten them into the Eastern Conference's top eight either. But it would have clogged their cap sheet, deprived their youngsters of badly needed developmental touches and artificially created unwarranted expectations. A team led by Westbrook, RJ Barrett and Mitchell Robinson shouldn't make the playoffs, but good luck convincing James Dolan of that.

They are the sort of moves a team makes when it views merely reaching the postseason as a worthwhile goal. Eventually it might become one, but as a stepping stone rather than a destination. The ultimate objective in New York will always be championships, and a playoff pursuit would have proven counterproductive on that front with the loaded 2021 NBA Draft looming. A star in his 30s might be ill-advised for this roster, but a teenaged one is a different story. Atlanta, Charlotte and Detroit all made big win-now splashes. The path to the bottom, save a surprisingly inactive Cleveland team, is unobstructed. The reward for patience is another top young talent.

But the 2020-21 season was all about developing the incumbents. Barrett and Robinson were miscast on a power forward-centric roster last season. This year's roster hasn't exactly been upgraded. Free-agent additions Nerlens Noel and Austin Rivers don't exactly improve New York's spacing. Ball-hog extraordinaire Julius Randle remains in place. The Knicks probably could have made better immediate use of their cap space. But they didn't exactly make life harder on Barrett and Robinson either. Robinson should become a full-time starter for the first time in his career. If Obi Toppin joins him in the frontcourt, the Knicks will at least have a modicum of shooting. Fellow rookie Immanuel Quickley brings some off the bench as well. Spacing is easy enough to find even at this stage of free agency when teams are willing to compromise for it. Defensive sacrifices aren't as painful to teams without immediate ambitions.

Rose's regime appears to be the first in recent Knicks history without them, or at least the will to surrender such fantasies when faced with reality. That will is going to be tested. Slow starts tend to produce calls for fast action. Westbrook and Oladipo rumors aren't going anywhere so long as their situations remain unsettled. Buckle up if any of Rose's former CAA clients become available. There's a long way to go here.

But for the first time in two decades, the Knicks seem at least open to acknowledging that. They aren't acting desperately. They aren't skipping steps. They're acting like any other rebuilding team. They're giving their young players opportunities instead of trying to cherry-pick mercenaries from other teams. They're spending their cap space on assets instead of veterans (three second-round picks just for facilitating an Ed Davis trade!)

They've put off this regime's first great mistake. That mistake will come eventually. Even Pat Riley and Masai Ujiri have misses. But Knicks history is unkind to executives who make those mistakes early. Rose hasn't, and even if most of the hard work still remains, it's a barrier most of his predecessors failed to clear. It's the first step toward eventually turning the Knicks into a real winner.

Great read!!! Thanks for posting!

Was a very good article. Surprised that Perry's role in avoiding the pitfalls of past GMs, was obscured. Being smart with cap space, not getting taken in deals, started with Perry.

Should get some credit.

Good point...Right before the trade deadline, there were rumors that represented two separate ideals. On one hand, we were willing to trade draft picks and absorb bloated contracts of D'Angelo Russell and other rumored players. These were the type of short sighted moves Perry and Mills said we were done making. On the other hand, we were going to stick to plan and be smart about the cap by trading one or two of our assets (Morris and others that were on one year deals) to collect draft picks. In the end, Mills was fired, Perry remained and the path we took was to collect assets as opposed to trading them away. It's clear that Mills was the one the deviated from the plan while Perry stood firm. This is why Perry is still standing. He does deserve credit for that. Hopefully, we can continue to be smart...

We have talked many times “panic” and the one constant is Dolan. I don’t prescribe our issues have been the GM’s except for Isiah who was in Dolans head even after he left.
Dolan also sees the team thru “revenue” and while melo might have had issues on the court he was popular and the face of the franchise. I think Phil thought he could at least get us to the playoffs and build out a Triangle culture. Not a bad idea, just could not execute it for reasons well discussed.
It does seem Mills tried to placate Dolan and hold his job. I get that. I give Perry passes because he was not driving the ship then nor does he now. THis franchise is driven by Leon Rose. Does Perry stay. Beyond his contract. I have no idea. Is he measured for how well the development for who remains (if they remain)? Perhaps to some degree. Perry did not hire Fizdales and company coaching and I don’t know how much he is responsible for this current crew.
In the end I don’t really care who does what. Its on the court that matters and moves off it.
Blame and Fault are over rated. At the end of the day someone is accountable so its natural to want heads to roll.
We don’t know the measure for Perry via his job description from Leon. Perry was kept thinking the draft was in June. It was November. We had plenty of time to replace him. Perry is the only hold over from the past regime. Things are different now. MIlls is gone. Dolan invested a lot of money with this new group.
Things are thus far reasonable. Leon is trying to low ball his starphuchs which is ok. Other than that we drafted well and we are giving our yoot one more shot. Thats not “Perry vs. Mills”, thats just logic.

Mills signed THJ.No contracts like that given out after Perry got the job. Coincidence?

They have the worst roster in the league. Not only that we have done a poor job of drafting and developing talent. Not signing players isn't really the hallmark of a skilled GM. I'm still trying to figure out why he got the job in the first place.

Perry came in as Melo was on his way out. He had a near max deal, an NTC, and a trade kicker. The injuries were piling on as well. Perry also got KP as he was on his way out. He was in the middle of rehabbing from major surgery. Had recently been in a brawl. Faced what turned out to be false rape allegations. KP wanted out, Melo wanted out, before Perry got the job.

Perry also had Noah's contract on the books as well. THJ with his expensive 4 year deal. Timmy played hard, but was missing a lot of games. There was also Lee's contract, at his age.

It never ceases to amaze me, that with these FACTS. Some of you still believe Perry should have turned the Knicks into an instant playoff team in 2 years. That Perry should have received a treasure chest of picks and players, above what he got for two frequently injured stars, and a starter who was missing big parts of the season.

On top of that, Perry was supposed to overcome 20 years of mismanagement, and instantly make the Knicks, one of the most desireable destinations in the league. Should have asked Perry to crap ice cream while you're at it.

Fizdale was one of the most in demand coaches in the league at the time. Didnt work out.

In 2 years with Perry as GM, we have more cap space, more picks, than we've ever had. In 2 seasons.
But thats not enough for some of you. The job should have been finished. FAs should have been pounding on the door of Perry's office, begging to be a Knick.

Perry didnt give out any long term deals, cap killers, quick fixes with long term deals. He did what he should have done. 2 years wasnt fast enough for some of you. Ridiculous

Great Post!!!!

Kemet wrote:

TheGame wrote:Thibbs needs to just start Frank and see want he can do.

My expectation last season, were the Knicks head-coach Fiz/Miller were gonna put Frank & DSJ as the starter/finisher back-court tandem to run the point together to gather enough minutes to get the two PG performing on the Same-Page in a lineup, before midseason arrive. It never happen! Why? Because Fiz/Miller had NO creative team-ball insight like the majority of NBA teams, by having two PG as Starters running the team b.ball system.

I actually believe if given the playingtime minutes a big pass-first PG-Frank and a quick moving PG-DSJ had the tools to create several different offensive plays as a tandem back-court making plays for the forwards and Big in a lineup.
Plus bringing Payton & Trier off the bench as a 2nd unit backcourt would've been a nice challenge for all 4 guards to get on the same-page in a rotation.

RJ Barrett's rookie performance was not more impressive than Frank, or DSJ, or Trier, or even Payton's rookie season performance as a guard. The Knicks management and coaches making a rookie RJ Barrett a NBA starter at the start of the season over Frank, DSJ, Trier, and Payton, because RJ Barrett was the 3rd pick in a weak-weak 2019 draft says the Knicks coaches were BUMS for doing nothing to improve the Knicks previous season of young-core players.

I mean if Franks head is in the wrong place then the Knicks will have no choice but to start Elf. That is the single worst cast scenario. That means Frank and DSJ took their games nowhere this Summer. God forbid that’s the case.

Allanfan20 wrote:

Kemet wrote:

TheGame wrote:Thibbs needs to just start Frank and see want he can do.

My expectation last season, were the Knicks head-coach Fiz/Miller were gonna put Frank & DSJ as the starter/finisher back-court tandem to run the point together to gather enough minutes to get the two PG performing on the Same-Page in a lineup, before midseason arrive. It never happen! Why? Because Fiz/Miller had NO creative team-ball insight like the majority of NBA teams, by having two PG as Starters running the team b.ball system.

I actually believe if given the playingtime minutes a big pass-first PG-Frank and a quick moving PG-DSJ had the tools to create several different offensive plays as a tandem back-court making plays for the forwards and Big in a lineup.
Plus bringing Payton & Trier off the bench as a 2nd unit backcourt would've been a nice challenge for all 4 guards to get on the same-page in a rotation.

RJ Barrett's rookie performance was not more impressive than Frank, or DSJ, or Trier, or even Payton's rookie season performance as a guard. The Knicks management and coaches making a rookie RJ Barrett a NBA starter at the start of the season over Frank, DSJ, Trier, and Payton, because RJ Barrett was the 3rd pick in a weak-weak 2019 draft says the Knicks coaches were BUMS for doing nothing to improve the Knicks previous season of young-core players.

I mean if Franks head is in the wrong place then the Knicks will have no choice but to start Elf. That is the single worst cast scenario. That means Frank and DSJ took their games nowhere this Summer. God forbid that’s the case.

Frank needs to start at PG. the identity of this team needs to be as a top 5 defensive unit with Frank and Mitch and Obi/RJ as the scorers

Elfrid Payton is a horrific 3 point shooter. Like 20% bad. So bad he makes Frank look good with his 33%. If Frank can even improve his 3 point shooting a little bit just to be league average his defense is so good it more than makes up for it

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Uptown wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Uptown wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:

Nalod wrote:Westbrook hung 27 and seven last season.
He is not coming WITH PICKS as a dump. I can’t tell you his value nor do I think he is right for this team but I can’t see at age 31 this guy being treaded like he is cooked.

Ditto. I think that’s a pipe-dream for people that want him on the Knicks. He hasn’t really shown signs of physically slowing down either, even though that’s bound to happen.

The price for him is going to be really high just as it was high when the Rockets got him. The Rockets have every right to put a high price tag on him. If Westy doesn’t like it then too bad. He is under contract. The league needs to take control here a little anyway even though I tend to side with the players.

And the Knicks should have never had an eye on him in the first place. He never made sense and neither does Harden.

Then who makes sense, Because young stars like (booker, Mitchell, Murry, Kat, Jackson) are not coming here via trade or FA.

The idea of putting a veteran ALL star is to help build the confidence of your youth, the culture, winning habits.

As long as you think the right way to develop is to get guys around the same age, we are going to be a very bad team, because thats not the way stars are born.

A loss to most players under 24 is another day in the clubs after the loss, a loss to a vet result in the gym/film room after the loss..

Leon Rose-led Knicks will be rewarded for rare patience in rebuilding effort
The Knicks are finally acting like a typical rebuilding team

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/leon-rose-led-knicks-will-be-rewarded-for-rare-patience-in-rebuilding-effort/

By Sam Quinn
Dec 1, 2020 at 9:48 am ET

New Knicks regimes can usually be judged by how quickly it takes them to make a bad decision. Over the past two decades and change, almost every new front office has tried to put its stamp on the team immediately to disastrous results. Scott Layden gave Latrell Sprewell a five-year max contract extension less than three months into his tenure. Isiah Thomas only needed two weeks to trade away his team's future for Stephon Marbury. Steve Mills broke both of their records by torpedoing his tenure before it even began. He signed Tim Hardaway Jr. to a four-year, $72 million deal while David Griffin was en route to New York to interview for the team's presidency, effectively scaring him off of the job and opening the door for Mills to claim it.

Other regimes have started more promisingly but succumbed to the same temptations. Phil Jackson re-signed Carmelo Anthony at his peak and drafted Kristaps Porzingis before showing his true colors by burning his cap space on Joakim Noah, Courtney Lee and Derrick Rose. Donnie Walsh spent two years meticulously carving out cap space, and the result was the best stretch of Knicks basketball this century: three consecutive playoff berths and a series win. But he resigned, and replacement, Glen Grunwald, immediately wasted his amnesty clause on Chauncey Billups to sign Tyson Chandler when it could have later been used to create the flexibility to add Chris Paul.

The common thread is impatience. Things go wrong in New York when the Knicks hit fast forward, seeking out or retaining big-name players when doing so didn't make sense in the organization's present context. For months, the Leon Rose administration appeared destined to make the same mistakes. The Knicks were linked to Chris Paul ... and Russell Westbrook ... and Victor Oladipo ... and Gordon Hayward. How close they came to connecting on such an ill-advised home run swing is unknowable, but also irrelevant. Even if they were interested, they set a price and stuck to it. Restraint is a step toward patience.

And patience is what the Knicks needed this offseason. That has nothing to do with their previous foibles. In fact, it's the opposite. The Knicks, as presently constructed, are a rebuilding team. The sensible approach to having a rebuilding Knicks team is to act like a rebuilding team instead of acting like the Knicks. The former somewhat consistently yields winning basketball. The latter inevitably leads to disaster.

There was no scenario in which the addition of a Hayward or a Westbrook would have launched the Knicks into short-term championship contention. Given Atlanta's improvements, it probably wouldn't have gotten them into the Eastern Conference's top eight either. But it would have clogged their cap sheet, deprived their youngsters of badly needed developmental touches and artificially created unwarranted expectations. A team led by Westbrook, RJ Barrett and Mitchell Robinson shouldn't make the playoffs, but good luck convincing James Dolan of that.

They are the sort of moves a team makes when it views merely reaching the postseason as a worthwhile goal. Eventually it might become one, but as a stepping stone rather than a destination. The ultimate objective in New York will always be championships, and a playoff pursuit would have proven counterproductive on that front with the loaded 2021 NBA Draft looming. A star in his 30s might be ill-advised for this roster, but a teenaged one is a different story. Atlanta, Charlotte and Detroit all made big win-now splashes. The path to the bottom, save a surprisingly inactive Cleveland team, is unobstructed. The reward for patience is another top young talent.

But the 2020-21 season was all about developing the incumbents. Barrett and Robinson were miscast on a power forward-centric roster last season. This year's roster hasn't exactly been upgraded. Free-agent additions Nerlens Noel and Austin Rivers don't exactly improve New York's spacing. Ball-hog extraordinaire Julius Randle remains in place. The Knicks probably could have made better immediate use of their cap space. But they didn't exactly make life harder on Barrett and Robinson either. Robinson should become a full-time starter for the first time in his career. If Obi Toppin joins him in the frontcourt, the Knicks will at least have a modicum of shooting. Fellow rookie Immanuel Quickley brings some off the bench as well. Spacing is easy enough to find even at this stage of free agency when teams are willing to compromise for it. Defensive sacrifices aren't as painful to teams without immediate ambitions.

Rose's regime appears to be the first in recent Knicks history without them, or at least the will to surrender such fantasies when faced with reality. That will is going to be tested. Slow starts tend to produce calls for fast action. Westbrook and Oladipo rumors aren't going anywhere so long as their situations remain unsettled. Buckle up if any of Rose's former CAA clients become available. There's a long way to go here.

But for the first time in two decades, the Knicks seem at least open to acknowledging that. They aren't acting desperately. They aren't skipping steps. They're acting like any other rebuilding team. They're giving their young players opportunities instead of trying to cherry-pick mercenaries from other teams. They're spending their cap space on assets instead of veterans (three second-round picks just for facilitating an Ed Davis trade!)

They've put off this regime's first great mistake. That mistake will come eventually. Even Pat Riley and Masai Ujiri have misses. But Knicks history is unkind to executives who make those mistakes early. Rose hasn't, and even if most of the hard work still remains, it's a barrier most of his predecessors failed to clear. It's the first step toward eventually turning the Knicks into a real winner.

Great read!!! Thanks for posting!

Was a very good article. Surprised that Perry's role in avoiding the pitfalls of past GMs, was obscured. Being smart with cap space, not getting taken in deals, started with Perry.

Should get some credit.

Good point...Right before the trade deadline, there were rumors that represented two separate ideals. On one hand, we were willing to trade draft picks and absorb bloated contracts of D'Angelo Russell and other rumored players. These were the type of short sighted moves Perry and Mills said we were done making. On the other hand, we were going to stick to plan and be smart about the cap by trading one or two of our assets (Morris and others that were on one year deals) to collect draft picks. In the end, Mills was fired, Perry remained and the path we took was to collect assets as opposed to trading them away. It's clear that Mills was the one the deviated from the plan while Perry stood firm. This is why Perry is still standing. He does deserve credit for that. Hopefully, we can continue to be smart...

We have talked many times “panic” and the one constant is Dolan. I don’t prescribe our issues have been the GM’s except for Isiah who was in Dolans head even after he left.
Dolan also sees the team thru “revenue” and while melo might have had issues on the court he was popular and the face of the franchise. I think Phil thought he could at least get us to the playoffs and build out a Triangle culture. Not a bad idea, just could not execute it for reasons well discussed.
It does seem Mills tried to placate Dolan and hold his job. I get that. I give Perry passes because he was not driving the ship then nor does he now. THis franchise is driven by Leon Rose. Does Perry stay. Beyond his contract. I have no idea. Is he measured for how well the development for who remains (if they remain)? Perhaps to some degree. Perry did not hire Fizdales and company coaching and I don’t know how much he is responsible for this current crew.
In the end I don’t really care who does what. Its on the court that matters and moves off it.
Blame and Fault are over rated. At the end of the day someone is accountable so its natural to want heads to roll.
We don’t know the measure for Perry via his job description from Leon. Perry was kept thinking the draft was in June. It was November. We had plenty of time to replace him. Perry is the only hold over from the past regime. Things are different now. MIlls is gone. Dolan invested a lot of money with this new group.
Things are thus far reasonable. Leon is trying to low ball his starphuchs which is ok. Other than that we drafted well and we are giving our yoot one more shot. Thats not “Perry vs. Mills”, thats just logic.

Mills signed THJ.No contracts like that given out after Perry got the job. Coincidence?

They have the worst roster in the league. Not only that we have done a poor job of drafting and developing talent. Not signing players isn't really the hallmark of a skilled GM. I'm still trying to figure out why he got the job in the first place.

Perry came in as Melo was on his way out. He had a near max deal, an NTC, and a trade kicker. The injuries were piling on as well. Perry also got KP as he was on his way out. He was in the middle of rehabbing from major surgery. Had recently been in a brawl. Faced what turned out to be false rape allegations. KP wanted out, Melo wanted out, before Perry got the job.

Perry also had Noah's contract on the books as well. THJ with his expensive 4 year deal. Timmy played hard, but was missing a lot of games. There was also Lee's contract, at his age.

It never ceases to amaze me, that with these FACTS. Some of you still believe Perry should have turned the Knicks into an instant playoff team in 2 years. That Perry should have received a treasure chest of picks and players, above what he got for two frequently injured stars, and a starter who was missing big parts of the season.

On top of that, Perry was supposed to overcome 20 years of mismanagement, and instantly make the Knicks, one of the most desireable destinations in the league. Should have asked Perry to crap ice cream while you're at it.

Fizdale was one of the most in demand coaches in the league at the time. Didnt work out.

In 2 years with Perry as GM, we have more cap space, more picks, than we've ever had. In 2 seasons.
But thats not enough for some of you. The job should have been finished. FAs should have been pounding on the door of Perry's office, begging to be a Knick.

Perry didnt give out any long term deals, cap killers, quick fixes with long term deals. He did what he should have done. 2 years wasnt fast enough for some of you. Ridiculous

+1

Gustav, thanks for carrying the torch a bit on this one.
I don’t think Perry or any of them said be patient, its some of us fans that want a legit foundation and understand it takes time, opportunity and a bit of luck. In some instances we have come up short in each.
1248 is stuck in the romantic 54 win season where we retired 5 players who all but cooked by seasons end and heralded Grunwald as the model. If anything Isiah was still in Dolans head. IT was a fun season but not sustainable. Perhaps it was Melo’s finest.
If there was a visual to the end it was JR smith out in a night club in a daze staring at Rihanna ass.
1248 is still stuck in that moment. It wasn’t what JR smith did. It was that JR smith was our 2nd option. We were that weak.

Knixkik wrote:The PG names I’m keeping an eye on going forward

Cunningham (in the 10-14% chance we win the lottery)
Suggs (possibility in the 3-7 pick range)

Bledsoe or Ball. One of them doesn’t have a future in New Orleans and I would imagine there’s interest to a degree in both

Terry Rozier becomes more likely as he gets closer to being an expiring contract (he has 2 years left and no future in Charlotte as they are fully committed to a Ball/Graham backcourt I would think.)
Graham is also a possibility with him becoming a RFA and being CAA. Maybe a big offer shakes him loose and Charlotte just rolls with Ball and Rozier, although this is less likely.

Mike Conley. CAA and a free agent next summer if knicks are trying to get more aggressive in being a win-now team.

I think it’s more likely than not we end up with 1 of these 7 PGs between now and July.

Graham is small. These midget PG’s with exceptional ability are bad contracts to have. They lose just one step or get a tissue injury they cannot hang with the bigger players.
Rozier might be better than what we have but he is not good enough. I give DSjr 20 games to show me something before I make a deal for Rozier.
Remember, Frank can play defense enough to stay on the floor and win you games without his offense. We have seen that. When a player loses his shot in a game we hear the same thing “They have to contribute in other ways”. Frank can does those other things and its why many of us like him. Ariza had that knack too and when he found his offense he was NBA starter material.
Let’s not forget Charlotte was not that good either with Rozier and Graham. Devonte was a Gleague player who did well. HE is a a 25 off the bench player. Can shoot deep and light it up. But there are limits.

TPercy wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Uptown wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Uptown wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Uptown wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:

Nalod wrote:Westbrook hung 27 and seven last season.
He is not coming WITH PICKS as a dump. I can’t tell you his value nor do I think he is right for this team but I can’t see at age 31 this guy being treaded like he is cooked.

Ditto. I think that’s a pipe-dream for people that want him on the Knicks. He hasn’t really shown signs of physically slowing down either, even though that’s bound to happen.

The price for him is going to be really high just as it was high when the Rockets got him. The Rockets have every right to put a high price tag on him. If Westy doesn’t like it then too bad. He is under contract. The league needs to take control here a little anyway even though I tend to side with the players.

And the Knicks should have never had an eye on him in the first place. He never made sense and neither does Harden.

Then who makes sense, Because young stars like (booker, Mitchell, Murry, Kat, Jackson) are not coming here via trade or FA.

The idea of putting a veteran ALL star is to help build the confidence of your youth, the culture, winning habits.

As long as you think the right way to develop is to get guys around the same age, we are going to be a very bad team, because thats not the way stars are born.

A loss to most players under 24 is another day in the clubs after the loss, a loss to a vet result in the gym/film room after the loss..

Leon Rose-led Knicks will be rewarded for rare patience in rebuilding effort
The Knicks are finally acting like a typical rebuilding team

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/leon-rose-led-knicks-will-be-rewarded-for-rare-patience-in-rebuilding-effort/

By Sam Quinn
Dec 1, 2020 at 9:48 am ET

New Knicks regimes can usually be judged by how quickly it takes them to make a bad decision. Over the past two decades and change, almost every new front office has tried to put its stamp on the team immediately to disastrous results. Scott Layden gave Latrell Sprewell a five-year max contract extension less than three months into his tenure. Isiah Thomas only needed two weeks to trade away his team's future for Stephon Marbury. Steve Mills broke both of their records by torpedoing his tenure before it even began. He signed Tim Hardaway Jr. to a four-year, $72 million deal while David Griffin was en route to New York to interview for the team's presidency, effectively scaring him off of the job and opening the door for Mills to claim it.

Other regimes have started more promisingly but succumbed to the same temptations. Phil Jackson re-signed Carmelo Anthony at his peak and drafted Kristaps Porzingis before showing his true colors by burning his cap space on Joakim Noah, Courtney Lee and Derrick Rose. Donnie Walsh spent two years meticulously carving out cap space, and the result was the best stretch of Knicks basketball this century: three consecutive playoff berths and a series win. But he resigned, and replacement, Glen Grunwald, immediately wasted his amnesty clause on Chauncey Billups to sign Tyson Chandler when it could have later been used to create the flexibility to add Chris Paul.

The common thread is impatience. Things go wrong in New York when the Knicks hit fast forward, seeking out or retaining big-name players when doing so didn't make sense in the organization's present context. For months, the Leon Rose administration appeared destined to make the same mistakes. The Knicks were linked to Chris Paul ... and Russell Westbrook ... and Victor Oladipo ... and Gordon Hayward. How close they came to connecting on such an ill-advised home run swing is unknowable, but also irrelevant. Even if they were interested, they set a price and stuck to it. Restraint is a step toward patience.

And patience is what the Knicks needed this offseason. That has nothing to do with their previous foibles. In fact, it's the opposite. The Knicks, as presently constructed, are a rebuilding team. The sensible approach to having a rebuilding Knicks team is to act like a rebuilding team instead of acting like the Knicks. The former somewhat consistently yields winning basketball. The latter inevitably leads to disaster.

There was no scenario in which the addition of a Hayward or a Westbrook would have launched the Knicks into short-term championship contention. Given Atlanta's improvements, it probably wouldn't have gotten them into the Eastern Conference's top eight either. But it would have clogged their cap sheet, deprived their youngsters of badly needed developmental touches and artificially created unwarranted expectations. A team led by Westbrook, RJ Barrett and Mitchell Robinson shouldn't make the playoffs, but good luck convincing James Dolan of that.

They are the sort of moves a team makes when it views merely reaching the postseason as a worthwhile goal. Eventually it might become one, but as a stepping stone rather than a destination. The ultimate objective in New York will always be championships, and a playoff pursuit would have proven counterproductive on that front with the loaded 2021 NBA Draft looming. A star in his 30s might be ill-advised for this roster, but a teenaged one is a different story. Atlanta, Charlotte and Detroit all made big win-now splashes. The path to the bottom, save a surprisingly inactive Cleveland team, is unobstructed. The reward for patience is another top young talent.

But the 2020-21 season was all about developing the incumbents. Barrett and Robinson were miscast on a power forward-centric roster last season. This year's roster hasn't exactly been upgraded. Free-agent additions Nerlens Noel and Austin Rivers don't exactly improve New York's spacing. Ball-hog extraordinaire Julius Randle remains in place. The Knicks probably could have made better immediate use of their cap space. But they didn't exactly make life harder on Barrett and Robinson either. Robinson should become a full-time starter for the first time in his career. If Obi Toppin joins him in the frontcourt, the Knicks will at least have a modicum of shooting. Fellow rookie Immanuel Quickley brings some off the bench as well. Spacing is easy enough to find even at this stage of free agency when teams are willing to compromise for it. Defensive sacrifices aren't as painful to teams without immediate ambitions.

Rose's regime appears to be the first in recent Knicks history without them, or at least the will to surrender such fantasies when faced with reality. That will is going to be tested. Slow starts tend to produce calls for fast action. Westbrook and Oladipo rumors aren't going anywhere so long as their situations remain unsettled. Buckle up if any of Rose's former CAA clients become available. There's a long way to go here.

But for the first time in two decades, the Knicks seem at least open to acknowledging that. They aren't acting desperately. They aren't skipping steps. They're acting like any other rebuilding team. They're giving their young players opportunities instead of trying to cherry-pick mercenaries from other teams. They're spending their cap space on assets instead of veterans (three second-round picks just for facilitating an Ed Davis trade!)

They've put off this regime's first great mistake. That mistake will come eventually. Even Pat Riley and Masai Ujiri have misses. But Knicks history is unkind to executives who make those mistakes early. Rose hasn't, and even if most of the hard work still remains, it's a barrier most of his predecessors failed to clear. It's the first step toward eventually turning the Knicks into a real winner.

Great read!!! Thanks for posting!

Was a very good article. Surprised that Perry's role in avoiding the pitfalls of past GMs, was obscured. Being smart with cap space, not getting taken in deals, started with Perry.

Should get some credit.

Good point...Right before the trade deadline, there were rumors that represented two separate ideals. On one hand, we were willing to trade draft picks and absorb bloated contracts of D'Angelo Russell and other rumored players. These were the type of short sighted moves Perry and Mills said we were done making. On the other hand, we were going to stick to plan and be smart about the cap by trading one or two of our assets (Morris and others that were on one year deals) to collect draft picks. In the end, Mills was fired, Perry remained and the path we took was to collect assets as opposed to trading them away. It's clear that Mills was the one the deviated from the plan while Perry stood firm. This is why Perry is still standing. He does deserve credit for that. Hopefully, we can continue to be smart...

We have talked many times “panic” and the one constant is Dolan. I don’t prescribe our issues have been the GM’s except for Isiah who was in Dolans head even after he left.
Dolan also sees the team thru “revenue” and while melo might have had issues on the court he was popular and the face of the franchise. I think Phil thought he could at least get us to the playoffs and build out a Triangle culture. Not a bad idea, just could not execute it for reasons well discussed.
It does seem Mills tried to placate Dolan and hold his job. I get that. I give Perry passes because he was not driving the ship then nor does he now. THis franchise is driven by Leon Rose. Does Perry stay. Beyond his contract. I have no idea. Is he measured for how well the development for who remains (if they remain)? Perhaps to some degree. Perry did not hire Fizdales and company coaching and I don’t know how much he is responsible for this current crew.
In the end I don’t really care who does what. Its on the court that matters and moves off it.
Blame and Fault are over rated. At the end of the day someone is accountable so its natural to want heads to roll.
We don’t know the measure for Perry via his job description from Leon. Perry was kept thinking the draft was in June. It was November. We had plenty of time to replace him. Perry is the only hold over from the past regime. Things are different now. MIlls is gone. Dolan invested a lot of money with this new group.
Things are thus far reasonable. Leon is trying to low ball his starphuchs which is ok. Other than that we drafted well and we are giving our yoot one more shot. Thats not “Perry vs. Mills”, thats just logic.

Mills signed THJ.No contracts like that given out after Perry got the job. Coincidence?

They have the worst roster in the league. Not only that we have done a poor job of drafting and developing talent. Not signing players isn't really the hallmark of a skilled GM. I'm still trying to figure out why he got the job in the first place.

Perry came in as Melo was on his way out. He had a near max deal, an NTC, and a trade kicker. The injuries were piling on as well. Perry also got KP as he was on his way out. He was in the middle of rehabbing from major surgery. Had recently been in a brawl. Faced what turned out to be false rape allegations. KP wanted out, Melo wanted out, before Perry got the job.

Perry also had Noah's contract on the books as well. THJ with his expensive 4 year deal. Timmy played hard, but was missing a lot of games. There was also Lee's contract, at his age.

It never ceases to amaze me, that with these FACTS. Some of you still believe Perry should have turned the Knicks into an instant playoff team in 2 years. That Perry should have received a treasure chest of picks and players, above what he got for two frequently injured stars, and a starter who was missing big parts of the season.

On top of that, Perry was supposed to overcome 20 years of mismanagement, and instantly make the Knicks, one of the most desireable destinations in the league. Should have asked Perry to crap ice cream while you're at it.

Fizdale was one of the most in demand coaches in the league at the time. Didnt work out.

In 2 years with Perry as GM, we have more cap space, more picks, than we've ever had. In 2 seasons.
But thats not enough for some of you. The job should have been finished. FAs should have been pounding on the door of Perry's office, begging to be a Knick.

Perry didnt give out any long term deals, cap killers, quick fixes with long term deals. He did what he should have done. 2 years wasnt fast enough for some of you. Ridiculous

Great Post!!!!

It’s a very good post and very accurate. Probably my only real criticism of Perry was the roster construction in summer 2019. The players all individually were fine as additions. Perry did a ton of great things to give the Knicks opportunities to rebuild properly. He just failed in the roster construction part. Too many players who expected to play and quantity over quality. Mills was the problem because he was too vocal about the culture and other things that weren’t actually happening. Rose seems more about actions and less about words and I’m fine with Perry doing some of the leg work to get us there.

Same I think we should have prioritized more floor spacers last year but its not like that alone would have fixed us. He's done well so far and I look forward to seeing how he moves in 2021 with better talent available

I think they tried. Bullock had the unfortunate medical thing and Ellington was more cooked then we thought. They don't sign Morris if Bullock is healthy tho.

Jimbo5 wrote:I really like Frank to succeed as a knick but im starting to believe that Frank's time as a knick is fast running out. Im starting to believe what Allan Hahn has been saying that Frank is stuck in his ways and refuses to adopt to what the coach wants his role to be, that was according to what his previous coaches says of Frank. The fact that Thibs hasn't highlighted Frank, a defensive specialist in any of his interviews is very telling.

What if the front office makes one last series of moves to make the knicks more relevant this season. What if they trade for Lonzo Ball(Pelicans now have Bledsoe and Kira) for say Knox, Frank and a second rounder. Then they also trade for Buddy Heild for Randle and a first round pick(maybe Dallas 2023 first round)

Will a line up of these guys bring the Knicks far in the playoffs even after other eastern teams improved?

Mitch
Obi 1
RJ
Heild
Lonzo

They haven't even started the full team training camp yet. So what has started to solidify this for you? Knicks had Payton, Smith & Frank last season as the PGs. And Smith was absolutely terrible and injured. So who was pushing Frank to another position? Frank's usage was 15.4 last season(his lowest of his career) and he routinely gave the ball up to Randle, Morris, RJ for their touches when in with them. So playing off ball and not being ball dominant is actually what Frank does. His issue is more so that he doesn't take more command and become more ball dominant as a scoring threat and opening up opportunities for others off that. But if he were to change his game then it wouldn't be playing more off ball it would be becoming more ball dominant and selfish.

Payton supposedly froze out RJ Barrett and only really passed to Randle. Think the same for Randle toward Payton. I do also remember the perception that the ball flowed more freely among the team when Frank was in the game since he was so willing to give the ball up to other players.

RJ is a bulldog and has the build as a strong drive and kick G/F. Frank as a 3&D G can compliment RJs skill set nicely.

Nalod wrote:

Knixkik wrote:The PG names I’m keeping an eye on going forward

Cunningham (in the 10-14% chance we win the lottery)
Suggs (possibility in the 3-7 pick range)

Bledsoe or Ball. One of them doesn’t have a future in New Orleans and I would imagine there’s interest to a degree in both

Terry Rozier becomes more likely as he gets closer to being an expiring contract (he has 2 years left and no future in Charlotte as they are fully committed to a Ball/Graham backcourt I would think.)
Graham is also a possibility with him becoming a RFA and being CAA. Maybe a big offer shakes him loose and Charlotte just rolls with Ball and Rozier, although this is less likely.

Mike Conley. CAA and a free agent next summer if knicks are trying to get more aggressive in being a win-now team.

I think it’s more likely than not we end up with 1 of these 7 PGs between now and July.

Graham is small. These midget PG’s with exceptional ability are bad contracts to have. They lose just one step or get a tissue injury they cannot hang with the bigger players.
Rozier might be better than what we have but he is not good enough. I give DSjr 20 games to show me something before I make a deal for Rozier.
Remember, Frank can play defense enough to stay on the floor and win you games without his offense. We have seen that. When a player loses his shot in a game we hear the same thing “They have to contribute in other ways”. Frank can does those other things and its why many of us like him. Ariza had that knack too and when he found his offense he was NBA starter material.
Let’s not forget Charlotte was not that good either with Rozier and Graham. Devonte was a Gleague player who did well. HE is a a 25 off the bench player. Can shoot deep and light it up. But there are limits.

Graham is small and Rozier isn’t perfect, but both are much better options than D Smith and Frank because they can shoot it. We need guards that can score in today’s game. That being said, I prefer to stay away from the Charlotte PGs and just wait until the draft. If we strike out on Cunningham or Suggs I’ll make a push for Lonzo because I think he’s a very good fit with RJ, Obi and Mitch. I’ll pay enough to make it so New Orleans is uncomfortable matching and give them some small compensation to ensure they don’t at the last minute.