SupremeCommander wrote:for everyone bent out about Toppin's d, this fact should really put your mind slightly at ease:

Since the 2010-11 season, Trae Young and Zion Williamson are the only other underclassmen to average at least 20 points while also having a box plus/minus of at least 11.7

Being deficient on defense is as damning when the other team is constantly on their heels because they can't stop you

It's weird, does Trae play a lick of defense? And he is undersized for a position that is constantly in attach mode. But everyone in Atlanta LOVES him and the team is building around him.

SupremeCommander wrote:for everyone bent out about Toppin's d, this fact should really put your mind slightly at ease:

Since the 2010-11 season, Trae Young and Zion Williamson are the only other underclassmen to average at least 20 points while also having a box plus/minus of at least 11.7

Being deficient on defense is as damning when the other team is constantly on their heels because they can't stop you

So basically, his defense won't matter if he performs at an historic level? Well let's hope Obi turns into prime mother effin' Dirk!

BigDaddyG wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:for everyone bent out about Toppin's d, this fact should really put your mind slightly at ease:

Since the 2010-11 season, Trae Young and Zion Williamson are the only other underclassmen to average at least 20 points while also having a box plus/minus of at least 11.7

Being deficient on defense is as damning when the other team is constantly on their heels because they can't stop you

So basically, his defense won't matter if he performs at an historic level? Well let's hope Obi turns into prime mother effin' Dirk!

I'm not the one talking in extremes... I am just sharing facts.

When Obi Toppin is throwing it down on everyone's face and the Garden starts signing, that has an effect. If he develops that is what is going to happen. Him demolishing another team will get them to start thinking about going to Scores if Toppin develops. I am a huge believer of his and love watching him play. I have actually watched Toppin play. He runs and is effective on offense...

I don't know, maybe it's just me but I don't think a player like this is going to walk into Thibs lockerroom and just shrug and say to himself 'nah man I'm good, I just want to be **** on defense.' We don't have to worry about Fizz starting him at PG and this will be the best coaching staff he has ever been around. This kid is the latest bloomer ever and will benefit from this development orientated coaching staff. He is going to be so ****ing good his sophomore season once someon shows him what to do

SupremeCommander wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:for everyone bent out about Toppin's d, this fact should really put your mind slightly at ease:

Since the 2010-11 season, Trae Young and Zion Williamson are the only other underclassmen to average at least 20 points while also having a box plus/minus of at least 11.7

Being deficient on defense is as damning when the other team is constantly on their heels because they can't stop you

So basically, his defense won't matter if he performs at an historic level? Well let's hope Obi turns into prime mother effin' Dirk!

I'm not the one talking in extremes... I am just sharing facts.

When Obi Toppin is throwing it down on everyone's face and the Garden starts signing, that has an effect. If he develops that is what is going to happen. Him demolishing another team will get them to start thinking about going to Scores if Toppin develops. I am a huge believer of his and love watching him play. I have actually watched Toppin play. He runs and is effective on offense...

I don't know, maybe it's just me but I don't think a player like this is going to walk into Thibs lockerroom and just shrug and say to himself 'nah man I'm good, I just want to be **** on defense.' We don't have to worry about Fizz starting him at PG and this will be the best coaching staff he has ever been around. This kid is the latest bloomer ever and will benefit from this development orientated coaching staff. He is going to be so ****ing good his sophomore season once someon shows him what to do

fishmike wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:for everyone bent out about Toppin's d, this fact should really put your mind slightly at ease:

Since the 2010-11 season, Trae Young and Zion Williamson are the only other underclassmen to average at least 20 points while also having a box plus/minus of at least 11.7

Being deficient on defense is as damning when the other team is constantly on their heels because they can't stop you

So basically, his defense won't matter if he performs at an historic level? Well let's hope Obi turns into prime mother effin' Dirk!

I'm not the one talking in extremes... I am just sharing facts.

When Obi Toppin is throwing it down on everyone's face and the Garden starts signing, that has an effect. If he develops that is what is going to happen. Him demolishing another team will get them to start thinking about going to Scores if Toppin develops. I am a huge believer of his and love watching him play. I have actually watched Toppin play. He runs and is effective on offense...

I don't know, maybe it's just me but I don't think a player like this is going to walk into Thibs lockerroom and just shrug and say to himself 'nah man I'm good, I just want to be **** on defense.' We don't have to worry about Fizz starting him at PG and this will be the best coaching staff he has ever been around. This kid is the latest bloomer ever and will benefit from this development orientated coaching staff. He is going to be so ****ing good his sophomore season once someon shows him what to do

hi preacher! Im Mike... I'm with the choir. Where do you need me to stand and sing?

awesome.. just keep on your toes... the prophet Obi likes to run and we need to be ready

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:of course defense matters and it will for Obi, but you are getting an offensive monster right out of the gate.

If you like "modern NBA" etc Obi is a wet dream. Look at this shot chart and %s:
https://www.reddit.com/r/CollegeBasketball/comments/g1fdnj/poy_obi_toppins_20192020_shot_chart/

He was simply too good for college scoring 20ppg on 12.5 shots being the best player on a team that was 29-2

Good point. One thing to keep in mind is that, in the NEW NCAA, he was 22 and competing against mostly freshman's who had yet to develop their body mass. Still agree though. He will be a bull in the NBA as well. Interesting to see what they do with Randle? Can't imagine they feel Toppin can defend at the 3.

I agree to a point with the men amongst boys thing... it is a clear advantage, especially if you aren't in the ACC or even the SEC. I will point to Blake Griffin though... he went to 22/12.5 his sophomore season in the Big 12, and held a similar advantage... that seemed to turn out okay (maybe not the contract but he definitely wasn't a bust)

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:of course defense matters and it will for Obi, but you are getting an offensive monster right out of the gate.

If you like "modern NBA" etc Obi is a wet dream. Look at this shot chart and %s:
https://www.reddit.com/r/CollegeBasketball/comments/g1fdnj/poy_obi_toppins_20192020_shot_chart/

He was simply too good for college scoring 20ppg on 12.5 shots being the best player on a team that was 29-2

Good point. One thing to keep in mind is that, in the NEW NCAA, he was 22 and competing against mostly freshman's who had yet to develop their body mass. Still agree though. He will be a bull in the NBA as well. Interesting to see what they do with Randle? Can't imagine they feel Toppin can defend at the 3.

Also look at the analytics:
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/dayton/2020.html

Obviously when you scout Obi he's got big defensive holes but those didnt hurt his defensive impact on the team at all and the #s show that.

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:of course defense matters and it will for Obi, but you are getting an offensive monster right out of the gate.

If you like "modern NBA" etc Obi is a wet dream. Look at this shot chart and %s:
https://www.reddit.com/r/CollegeBasketball/comments/g1fdnj/poy_obi_toppins_20192020_shot_chart/

He was simply too good for college scoring 20ppg on 12.5 shots being the best player on a team that was 29-2

Good point. One thing to keep in mind is that, in the NEW NCAA, he was 22 and competing against mostly freshman's who had yet to develop their body mass. Still agree though. He will be a bull in the NBA as well. Interesting to see what they do with Randle? Can't imagine they feel Toppin can defend at the 3.

true. the counter argument is he was by far the primary focus of the opponent. We're not talking a stacked Kentucky or Duke team where the opponent is forced to go one on one with a future first rounder because Kentucky/Duke has 3-5 of them on the floor

Based on his shot chart, he fits practically the ideal offensive profile. Makes a high percentage near the basket and past the 3pt line, and only takes a smattering of shots from mid-range. Watching his highlight reel was a bit reminiscent of Blake Griffin's dominance in college. So much power.

Some good news about him is that for such a good finisher and shooter, he wasn't a complete black hole. He averaged 2.2apg in his final year.

I'm guessing with Toppin on board, Randle or Portis becomes expendable, as does Kevin Knox. I think Knick fans are undervaluing Randle badly - and with a different coach and system (this coach and this system!) we'll see less of Randle's deficiencies. It remains to be seen whether you can have a cohesive unit when you have multiple mediocre defenders capped with a strong defensive center (Mitch) and "PG-thing" (Ntilikina).

SupremeCommander wrote:fun fact:

did you know that this past season, Isaac Okoro had 1.1 defensive win shares and Obi Toppin had 2.3 (and 1.6 his rookie season)?

Again, not saying Toppin is better than Okoro, but Toppin's athleticism puts him into play for blocks, and he has an effective field goal percentage of 67.4 percent. No surprise his +/- is really good, even with a poor defensive stance

His PER was 32.5. Zion had a 40.0, Trae Yound a 28.0, and Okoro had 19.1 for comparison's sake

ahhhhh I wish everyone was as excited as I am