Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:I am trying to figure out why FVV is a target, especially considering the economics. Team salary caps will be going down, China, COVID, etc. I think that's a solid assumption. Cap space will be a priory for team for at least 2 years.

So at what price is FVV going to move on from a Toronto team? We would have to outbid them. I don't think FVV is worth anywhere near $20M, if he gets $15M from Toronto I'd be surprised.

FVV is a good range shooter. He is not a lead PG. He is undersized and maybe his defense is super solid in a good system and I don't watch enough to know how good his individual defense is.

You aren't paying for upside, he is probably capped there?

I'm trying to think of guards who just signed recent contracts that we could compare.

Eric Gordon, just signed starting at $14M for 4 years. Malcolm Brogdon 4 years at $20M per. Rozier, 3 years $19M (and everyone thought this was an overpay). Eric Bledsoe 4 years starting at $15.5M. Marcus Smart (a year prior) starting around $12M for 4 years.

FVV at $20M is not good economics for his role.

You don't really have to outbid Toronto necessarily, he's a UFA. He may want his own challenge after already winning. He's a younger guard just entering his prime that can shoot and defend. He's not a true lead guard, but we want Barrett to take on some lead playmaking duties, so it makes sense. FVV probably won't be a star, but i like the skillset and it's perfect for our team that is currently built around Barrett and Mitch. I'd prefer to pay a little above market to finally solve our PG issue and have it be a player who fits. He's a much better player than all of the ones you listed. He's comparable to Brogdon but a little better. Maybe you're just underrating him a little bit, idk. If you would prefer a rookie starting or another stopgap that's fine, but FVV is likely a target this fall.

So what do you think Toronto is offering him and what do you think the Knicks need to offer him?

Record-wise, TOR is a top 5 team in the league... and FVV is bored and just wants to go to a bottom team cause...? Lowry gonna retire soon and why wouldn't it be more likely that FVV extends and stays and knows he will be on a top team? I don't know too many players that hop from a top 5 team to a bottom 5 team because of the challenge? Can you maybe name a few?

And absolutely we would have to outbid Toronto, UFA or not. They can pay him more in increases and those add up, and they offer him one of the best front offices and a stable, winning environment. This is not a vacuum.

I don't see Lowry retiring anytime soon. I am wondering if FVV wants to be a lead guard for a team. As far as money i don't have a clue, but a lot of teams are going to be cutting costs this year. I'm just thinking for a best-case scenario perspective. We are in unprecedented times. It may not go down this way of course. I wouldn't really overpay.

? OK that's just kind of a non response. I mean, if you can't even take a shot in the dark, the rest of what you say is just fluff.

Lowry is 34 and will be 35 next season in the last year of his contract (2020-21). Maybe he doesn't retire but do you really think he is the lead PG at 36 for Toronto?

What type of response do you want? I’m not saying I’m giving FVV the max. I’ll consider 20 a year because he’s a young top 50 player who fits like a glove at PG. Toronto probably offers him somewhere around there or a little less. Lowry is 34 and isn’t really slowing down too much and probably can hold that position for at least another 2-3 years. If FVV is happy playing out of position at the 2 than that’s fine. My thought is he may feel he’s ready for a larger playmaking role at his natural position with a team that provides some more exposure (both good and bad.) all these NBA players think they are stars and deserve more attention and responsibility. Maybe he’s like that, or maybe not. I like his game and feel like he can fit well next to Barrett. And I really want to invest in 2way players who can shoot. He just checks off all my boxes.

I had asked you directly what you thought Toronto would offer him and what the Knicks would need to offer him. "Not overpay" is not really a response.

Imagine you had a very good job with an excellent company that treated you very well and everyone was happy and were just about to get a pretty large pay raise. Another company who was not very well regarded and was in the midst of a 10+ year dysfunction would offer you the same pay or just slightly above. Would you move jobs?

Cause that's the scenario you just put FVV in. Why is he changing? For the challenge? It just doesn't seem real to me. Typically you have to overpay for that type of player, and certainly one in which the team is a conference contender.

I mean, I get that you may think that FVV is a good fit but after things don't seem right for anyone.

Paul/Ntilikina/Pinson
Ball/dotson/bullock
Barrett/knox/brazdiekas
Marcus morris/markieff/harkless
Robinson /Gibson/wooten

Should be fighting for a top 6-7 seed after the bucks, celtics, heat, 76ers,raptors,nets. Team should get its 21st win by game 38.

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:I am trying to figure out why FVV is a target, especially considering the economics. Team salary caps will be going down, China, COVID, etc. I think that's a solid assumption. Cap space will be a priory for team for at least 2 years.

So at what price is FVV going to move on from a Toronto team? We would have to outbid them. I don't think FVV is worth anywhere near $20M, if he gets $15M from Toronto I'd be surprised.

FVV is a good range shooter. He is not a lead PG. He is undersized and maybe his defense is super solid in a good system and I don't watch enough to know how good his individual defense is.

You aren't paying for upside, he is probably capped there?

I'm trying to think of guards who just signed recent contracts that we could compare.

Eric Gordon, just signed starting at $14M for 4 years. Malcolm Brogdon 4 years at $20M per. Rozier, 3 years $19M (and everyone thought this was an overpay). Eric Bledsoe 4 years starting at $15.5M. Marcus Smart (a year prior) starting around $12M for 4 years.

FVV at $20M is not good economics for his role.

You don't really have to outbid Toronto necessarily, he's a UFA. He may want his own challenge after already winning. He's a younger guard just entering his prime that can shoot and defend. He's not a true lead guard, but we want Barrett to take on some lead playmaking duties, so it makes sense. FVV probably won't be a star, but i like the skillset and it's perfect for our team that is currently built around Barrett and Mitch. I'd prefer to pay a little above market to finally solve our PG issue and have it be a player who fits. He's a much better player than all of the ones you listed. He's comparable to Brogdon but a little better. Maybe you're just underrating him a little bit, idk. If you would prefer a rookie starting or another stopgap that's fine, but FVV is likely a target this fall.

So what do you think Toronto is offering him and what do you think the Knicks need to offer him?

Record-wise, TOR is a top 5 team in the league... and FVV is bored and just wants to go to a bottom team cause...? Lowry gonna retire soon and why wouldn't it be more likely that FVV extends and stays and knows he will be on a top team? I don't know too many players that hop from a top 5 team to a bottom 5 team because of the challenge? Can you maybe name a few?

And absolutely we would have to outbid Toronto, UFA or not. They can pay him more in increases and those add up, and they offer him one of the best front offices and a stable, winning environment. This is not a vacuum.

I don't see Lowry retiring anytime soon. I am wondering if FVV wants to be a lead guard for a team. As far as money i don't have a clue, but a lot of teams are going to be cutting costs this year. I'm just thinking for a best-case scenario perspective. We are in unprecedented times. It may not go down this way of course. I wouldn't really overpay.

? OK that's just kind of a non response. I mean, if you can't even take a shot in the dark, the rest of what you say is just fluff.

Lowry is 34 and will be 35 next season in the last year of his contract (2020-21). Maybe he doesn't retire but do you really think he is the lead PG at 36 for Toronto?

What type of response do you want? I’m not saying I’m giving FVV the max. I’ll consider 20 a year because he’s a young top 50 player who fits like a glove at PG. Toronto probably offers him somewhere around there or a little less. Lowry is 34 and isn’t really slowing down too much and probably can hold that position for at least another 2-3 years. If FVV is happy playing out of position at the 2 than that’s fine. My thought is he may feel he’s ready for a larger playmaking role at his natural position with a team that provides some more exposure (both good and bad.) all these NBA players think they are stars and deserve more attention and responsibility. Maybe he’s like that, or maybe not. I like his game and feel like he can fit well next to Barrett. And I really want to invest in 2way players who can shoot. He just checks off all my boxes.

I had asked you directly what you thought Toronto would offer him and what the Knicks would need to offer him. "Not overpay" is not really a response.

Imagine you had a very good job with an excellent company that treated you very well and everyone was happy and were just about to get a pretty large pay raise. Another company who was not very well regarded and was in the midst of a 10+ year dysfunction would offer you the same pay or just slightly above. Would you move jobs?

Cause that's the scenario you just put FVV in. Why is he changing? For the challenge? It just doesn't seem real to me. Typically you have to overpay for that type of player, and certainly one in which the team is a conference contender.

I mean, I get that you may think that FVV is a good fit but after things don't seem right for anyone.

I get what you’re saying. I don’t think it will happen or anything. I just hope Rose and Wes can make this situation appealing for some of these guys. It’s just a hope.

BRIGGS wrote:My hope is we can fix three point shooting long term in this draft.

I would take James Wiseman number 1 and I think he’s ultimately going to go 1 or 2.

But I think our best bet is to find high end shooters— shooters shoot abd it’s a translating skill. These guys shoot w range— this isn’t the old college 3 this is nba.

But sans getting pick 1 I hope the knicks go after woods — it will be a good move. It’s nearly impossible to get a player like him. I don’t see Fred van fleet as a guy who can carry a team. He’s a glue player with clutch genes — but when u have the guys he plays with — makes him look way better.

Zero interest in 32-33 gallinari or trading for K love C paul. Milsap etc..
I want the 24 year old Woods to pair with 22 year old Robinson. With Randle picking up a block of minutes to keep them all fresh.
It will create great spacing. You add in a great slasher like Barrett. Add an iggy who I think can help— a swarm of three point shooters - I mean real good ones who all play D. We have invested a lot of equity in frank— I think we give him a chance. Maybe we draft a HLliburton( but I think he’s gone by 6-7) I think get the best 3 point shooter in the draft(Nesmith)his skills translate more than almost ANY player! He can f shoot!!! Easy beautiful form great nba body—-I mean this is Mike Redd two here!!! How can u go wrong with that???

We have a great great chance to get 7-9 guys together who are 25 or so to keep together for long term growth. Dans getting a shaq that how ya do it!!!

Definitely agree about loading up on shooters in this draft

Lottery pick : Haliburton or Nesmith
Late first: Bane, T Terry, or Ramsey
Second : Pritchard, Nwora, or Tillie

We can find shooters at each slot who can become impact players long term.

BRIGGS wrote:

unstopaball12 wrote:Dream Offseason
1.Hire thibs or Atkinson with Miller as AC
2.Draft Lamelo ball(if we don't get top3, trade the LAC pick and cash) to move up)
3.trade Randle, DSJ, ellington's team option contract and cash for CP3
4.Sign the Morris brothers
5.re-sign hark less,Gibson to a lower deal, bullock

Paul/Ntilikina/Pinson
Ball/dotson/bullock
Barrett/knox/brazdiekas
Marcus morris/markieff/harkless
Robinson /Gibson/wooten

Should be fighting for a top 6-7 seed after the bucks, celtics, heat, 76ers,raptors,nets. Team should get its 21st win by game 38.

It’s team that will blow up in a year. So let’s throw our chips in the middle for a short term 6 th seed?

I like what Miami did. Look how fast they rebuilt with younger guys.Started 3 rookies played 5 rookies and were real good and ready to climb. The heat will pay them to stay together and wIn long term.

I see this prob with many Knicks fans. They want to live in the past—