Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Chandler wrote:

martin wrote:

fishmike wrote:

smackeddog wrote:I live in fear of us trading the farm for Embiid (a rose client):

I've got lead executives talking to me as we go through this, hours and hours and hours that I spend on the phone in and around the deadline, even after the deadline," said Brian Windhorst on his podcast. "Some of the worst for me is the three days of debriefing calls that these guys... I'm very appreciative, I mean I do it. I was on the phone until almost midnight Pacific time after the deadline talking to people.

"But anyways, one of the conversations people are starting to have in the league is 'will they move Embiid? What's the price? Where would he go?'

"I'm not going to get into that, but my point is people are talking about that. I don't think they would do that without making an adjustment to the head coach. It's such a radical thing, but the fact that we're in mid-February and the people who work in the league, who have to prepare in advance, are mulling over Joel Embiid potentially coming to market, whether that's true or not... I mean, Josh Harris can come on this podcast and deny it if he wants, but the fact people are talking about it, is not good. It's a symptom of where they are."

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/257178/Rival-Teams-Starting-To-Prepare-For-Possibility-Of-76ers-Trading-Joel-Embiid

whats the farm? I expect the Knicks to be really aggressive.

Knicks could get lucky and win the lottery. Lets be liberal and say we win the #2 pick.

RJ+Randle+Knicks 2021 FRP for Ingram
Knicks 2020 #2 pick + Dallas FRPs, Portis, Ellington, Mitch, Knox for Embiid (I believe there is a period pre draft/FA when you can trade guys in last year's contract making a guy like Portis more valuable?)
Max out Van Fleet
your 2020-21 Knicks:
PG Van Fleet
SG Frank
SF Bullock
PF Ingram
C Embiid
Bench: Iggy/Wooten/DSJR/Kadeem Allen/etc, etc

You have Clippers pick this year, no own FRP in 2021 but back to normal after that so its not like you wipe yourself out. Thats a young, long team that can smother you on defense. Van Fleet/Bullock/Ingram are all good shooters. Frank we'll see but he's there for D.

Not saying its possible or probably but I expect something dramatic to be honest.

hmmm nice

not a fan of the Ingram move. I'm glad he's playing well now. It took him a few years to look like someone closely resembling his draft slot.

Now if we afford the same patience to Frank and KK (each drafted subsequently, and each like Ingram were teenagers at the time, we can have something going

being patient sucks

Me either. I'd rather keep Barrett than make a big Ingram trade. I feel like Barrett has more leadership traits and the right personality for NYK. I think Ingram's spike wouldn't be as sustainable here. I think Barrett's mannerisms and what you need to succeed in NY gets vastly underrated. Not every player can come here and have the same impact they they did in the small market. Case in point, Ingram going from LA to NO. I don't trust that all of it was simple improvement in his game. I think some of it is changing to the right scenery for a player who seems a bit aloof at times. Need to find players who fit here and be patient in their development. Embiid is a loud-mouth but seems to at least have the chops to do it here. I'd rather move for Embiid and build around him and Barrett and surround them with shooters.

Ingram spike? He was a skinny kid when drafted, is 22 and is exploding into an NBA superstar. This doesnt look anything like a spike in production. This looks like a young player reaching his potential. Nobody *wants* to trade RJ. However he's an asset that has extra value to NOP because of his relationship w/ Zion. This takes advantage of that, plain and simple.

As for Embiid his is NOT Anthony Davis and nobody should confuse him as such. He's a fantastic defender as we know and he's great at the FT line but the every inch he moves from the basket his shooting numbers get more and more ghastly. He's a complimentary guy and at best a 2nd or 3rd scorer.

Regarding Ingram, he was shooting the same from 3pt range last year as Barrett. I don't expect his 40% to stick. His free throw shooting also was never above the high 60s and now is in the 80s. Maybe it's all sustainable, maybe not. I feel like while he's improved, there would be some regression to the mean, particularly in a place like NY. I also believe NO has performed very well with him off the floor. There are many red flags that would make me avoid dealing Barrett in a deal for him.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/ingrabr01.html

And the year before last Ingram was shooting 39% from 3pt so maybe last year was the anomaly?

Ingram's volume of 3's this year suggest he improved his shooting from distance and consistency and that has played out in FT's too.

I don't really follow him but I thought last year he was hurt and on and off court a bit? Maybe last year was just a bad year and should have shown more growth. He played 52 games.

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Chandler wrote:

martin wrote:

fishmike wrote:

smackeddog wrote:I live in fear of us trading the farm for Embiid (a rose client):

I've got lead executives talking to me as we go through this, hours and hours and hours that I spend on the phone in and around the deadline, even after the deadline," said Brian Windhorst on his podcast. "Some of the worst for me is the three days of debriefing calls that these guys... I'm very appreciative, I mean I do it. I was on the phone until almost midnight Pacific time after the deadline talking to people.

"But anyways, one of the conversations people are starting to have in the league is 'will they move Embiid? What's the price? Where would he go?'

"I'm not going to get into that, but my point is people are talking about that. I don't think they would do that without making an adjustment to the head coach. It's such a radical thing, but the fact that we're in mid-February and the people who work in the league, who have to prepare in advance, are mulling over Joel Embiid potentially coming to market, whether that's true or not... I mean, Josh Harris can come on this podcast and deny it if he wants, but the fact people are talking about it, is not good. It's a symptom of where they are."

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/257178/Rival-Teams-Starting-To-Prepare-For-Possibility-Of-76ers-Trading-Joel-Embiid

whats the farm? I expect the Knicks to be really aggressive.

Knicks could get lucky and win the lottery. Lets be liberal and say we win the #2 pick.

RJ+Randle+Knicks 2021 FRP for Ingram
Knicks 2020 #2 pick + Dallas FRPs, Portis, Ellington, Mitch, Knox for Embiid (I believe there is a period pre draft/FA when you can trade guys in last year's contract making a guy like Portis more valuable?)
Max out Van Fleet
your 2020-21 Knicks:
PG Van Fleet
SG Frank
SF Bullock
PF Ingram
C Embiid
Bench: Iggy/Wooten/DSJR/Kadeem Allen/etc, etc

You have Clippers pick this year, no own FRP in 2021 but back to normal after that so its not like you wipe yourself out. Thats a young, long team that can smother you on defense. Van Fleet/Bullock/Ingram are all good shooters. Frank we'll see but he's there for D.

Not saying its possible or probably but I expect something dramatic to be honest.

hmmm nice

not a fan of the Ingram move. I'm glad he's playing well now. It took him a few years to look like someone closely resembling his draft slot.

Now if we afford the same patience to Frank and KK (each drafted subsequently, and each like Ingram were teenagers at the time, we can have something going

being patient sucks

Me either. I'd rather keep Barrett than make a big Ingram trade. I feel like Barrett has more leadership traits and the right personality for NYK. I think Ingram's spike wouldn't be as sustainable here. I think Barrett's mannerisms and what you need to succeed in NY gets vastly underrated. Not every player can come here and have the same impact they they did in the small market. Case in point, Ingram going from LA to NO. I don't trust that all of it was simple improvement in his game. I think some of it is changing to the right scenery for a player who seems a bit aloof at times. Need to find players who fit here and be patient in their development. Embiid is a loud-mouth but seems to at least have the chops to do it here. I'd rather move for Embiid and build around him and Barrett and surround them with shooters.

Ingram spike? He was a skinny kid when drafted, is 22 and is exploding into an NBA superstar. This doesnt look anything like a spike in production. This looks like a young player reaching his potential. Nobody *wants* to trade RJ. However he's an asset that has extra value to NOP because of his relationship w/ Zion. This takes advantage of that, plain and simple.

As for Embiid his is NOT Anthony Davis and nobody should confuse him as such. He's a fantastic defender as we know and he's great at the FT line but the every inch he moves from the basket his shooting numbers get more and more ghastly. He's a complimentary guy and at best a 2nd or 3rd scorer.

Regarding Ingram, he was shooting the same from 3pt range last year as Barrett. I don't expect his 40% to stick. His free throw shooting also was never above the high 60s and now is in the 80s. Maybe it's all sustainable, maybe not. I feel like while he's improved, there would be some regression to the mean, particularly in a place like NY. I also believe NO has performed very well with him off the floor. There are many red flags that would make me avoid dealing Barrett in a deal for him.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/ingrabr01.html

And the year before last Ingram was shooting 39% from 3pt so maybe last year was the anomaly?

Ingram's volume of 3's this year suggest he improved his shooting from distance and consistency and that has played out in FT's too.

I don't really follow him but I thought last year he was hurt and on and off court a bit? Maybe last year was just a bad year and should have shown more growth. He played 52 games.

I am actually very good with just developing who/what we have and drafting BPAs and being patient but its the KNicks/MSG/Dolan

Knixkik wrote:Speaking of Leon Rose clients, Mike Conley can opt out and become a free agent. Maybe he agrees to a deal with the Knicks? He's 32 and injury prone but brings bigtime leadership and is a better fit next to Barrett with his outside shooting ability. Can take over games from time to time, as he's been showing lately. Not ideal for a rebuilding team but rebuilding teams still need vets if they are the right guys.

if you were his agent, under what circumstances would you advise him to opt out of a $34.5 contract year?

And then what would you do as Knicks GM with DSJr and Frank?

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Speaking of Leon Rose clients, Mike Conley can opt out and become a free agent. Maybe he agrees to a deal with the Knicks? He's 32 and injury prone but brings bigtime leadership and is a better fit next to Barrett with his outside shooting ability. Can take over games from time to time, as he's been showing lately. Not ideal for a rebuilding team but rebuilding teams still need vets if they are the right guys.

if you were his agent, under what circumstances would you advise him to opt out of a $34.5 contract year?

And then what would you do as Knicks GM with DSJr and Frank?

Well he would only opt out if he knew he could get more on a 1 year deal. And smith and Ntilikina I suspect will both be moved.

And it would have to be in the range of $20m for 3 years for him to make sense opting out.... that no one would give him because he’s 32 and injury prone. Not after his current Utah performance

smackeddog wrote:So, would you consider handing out contracts in 2020 instead of holding out until 2021?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Chiozza

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/chiozch01.html

Chiozza is a restricted free agent and with FlatEarther Irving always hurt, the Nets will have a different view of his value

His listed height is probably a bit generous. He can read the court and make the right pass at the right time. He looks like he can manage game flow and pace. He's got limitations aside from height ( thus why he might available in the first place)

Kid has big brass balls. I think the NY fanbase will embrace a lunchpail type like this. He can help this team.

This is not a great year for the draft and/or free agency. I think Paul Millsap should be the primary target but won't sign here. I just don't see the Knicks having a chance at Fred V or Harris, much less Ingram.

I'm at the point now where the Knicks have hit rock bottom. Before people can talk about future rings, there needs to be a basic return to fundamental team basketball.

BRIGGS wrote:Some of the stuff I hear here — atleast to me is nuts. I absolutely want to wait until we draft
But if things hold the line — we have no chance to draft Wiseman
A great shooter like Nesmith and a quality back up pg who can play now( Pritchard) would be a realistic scenario

So if we get that scenario where we draft 2 really good 3 point shooters. We have a burgeoning 5. I really like the fit of C Woods. I like that he is a true diverse 4 with very little wear on his body. He looks just as good as Ingram and proved without a shadow of a doubt he can play with nba upper echelon players. A guy who doesn’t need to be a great leader but rather as an important conjoint piece.
Paul Milsap. Chris paul. Gallinari? These guys all have a decade on woods— a DECADE.

I’m gonna pay Fred van fleet 20-25 mm and you’re gonna find out he was a role player who fit in great at Toronto
I like Randle to keep as sixth man. No chance to move him and not necessary— he can be a fantastic 6 th man.

I’m not overly worried about the pg position but I’m not interested in buying a 1999 Ford I’d rather a2016 4 runner

I disagree with your take on moving Randle. I think his expiring deal will be a tempting carrot to waive around many teams with the way the cap appears to be headed. The question is what value will he bring back in return. Also, It's about fit with these other guys. I agree with you on the age thing with Paul, Milsap and Gallo. But Gallo and Milsap are better fits. I would lean on youth in that case, but I'm not sure how many years I'd gamble on Woods. You compare Woods to Ingram, which is an interesting comparison. Around the same age with questions surrounding their games. Ingram is an injury gamble, but he has shown that he can be a solid creator on a decent NBA team when giving started minutes. Wood pretty much flashed good potential at the tail end of the season on a bad team. Did Wood do enough to say he's in the same class as Ingram? I would say no. But I'd feel more comfortable paying Wood on a cheaper deal than I would giving Ingram a Max. I also would not gamble more than two or three years on Van Fleet. He's a nice player, but he's worth on the open market probably is way higher than his worth would be to the team as it's currently made up.

BigDaddyG wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Some of the stuff I hear here — atleast to me is nuts. I absolutely want to wait until we draft
But if things hold the line — we have no chance to draft Wiseman
A great shooter like Nesmith and a quality back up pg who can play now( Pritchard) would be a realistic scenario

So if we get that scenario where we draft 2 really good 3 point shooters. We have a burgeoning 5. I really like the fit of C Woods. I like that he is a true diverse 4 with very little wear on his body. He looks just as good as Ingram and proved without a shadow of a doubt he can play with nba upper echelon players. A guy who doesn’t need to be a great leader but rather as an important conjoint piece.
Paul Milsap. Chris paul. Gallinari? These guys all have a decade on woods— a DECADE.

I’m gonna pay Fred van fleet 20-25 mm and you’re gonna find out he was a role player who fit in great at Toronto
I like Randle to keep as sixth man. No chance to move him and not necessary— he can be a fantastic 6 th man.

I’m not overly worried about the pg position but I’m not interested in buying a 1999 Ford I’d rather a2016 4 runner

I disagree with your take on moving Randle. I think his expiring deal will be a tempting carrot to waive around many teams with the way the cap appears to be headed. The question is what value will he bring back in return. Also, It's about fit with these other guys. I agree with you on the age thing with Paul, Milsap and Gallo. But Gallo and Milsap are better fits. I would lean on youth in that case, but I'm not sure how many years I'd gamble on Woods. You compare Woods to Ingram, which is an interesting comparison. Around the same age with questions surrounding their games. Ingram is an injury gamble, but he has shown that he can be a solid creator on a decent NBA team when giving started minutes. Wood pretty much flashed good potential at the tail end of the season on a bad team. Did Wood do enough to say he's in the same class as Ingram? I would say no. But I'd feel more comfortable paying Wood on a cheaper deal than I would giving Ingram a Max. I also would not gamble more than two or three years on Van Fleet. He's a nice player, but he's worth on the open market probably is way higher than his worth would be to the team as it's currently made up.

I think Randle at 6 th man would be great. I’m against the grain here— I like Randle more so than most here— I just don’t like him as the starter. If I was running things I’d try to keep Randle linger term as a 6 th man.

This team needs more three point shooting and I like Woods game next to Robinson at the 4. Bertans while the better 3 point shooter misses a few things that Woods has

But I am not opposed to bertans either. Way better choice than some of the older names

BRIGGS wrote:

smackeddog wrote:I think I started this thread back in February- seems another life time ago. I keep changing my mind, but looking at this years FA, there are so many excellent 3pt shooters we can't pass up this opportunity to land at least 1 or 2.

We also have the option of drafting the best shooter and defender SF out of Nesmith, Vassell and Saddiq Bey (lets be honest, we'll pick 6-9)

So either we do it by draft or free agency I want 2 great 3 pt shooters this offseason (minimum!)

I like all those drafted players but I think Nesmith will be a special volume 3 point shooter— like a klay thompson. Right now I have
Top 3 players
Wiseman
Nesmith
Halliburton

I think we’ll pick 7 or 8 but it’ll be interesting to see if Haliburton is still around