arkrud wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

arkrud wrote:

Uptown wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Uptown wrote:Firing Fiz in the second year of a rebuild Sends the message that the circus is back at MSG and perhaps never left. If we fire Fiz, the new coach will be our 6th HC in 6 years!! We will remind the league that we are and always will be the poster franchise for ineptitude and turmoil.

Last year was a wash as we unapologetically tanked, and now, after 20 plus games, in year two of a rebuild, we want to for him? Because he can't compete with a roster full of journeymen and backups?! Development is a slow process, it has taken Frank 3 years to move from a G-League level talent, to legit back-up pg status. Mudiay had the best year of his short career last year. That don't count? How much time are we giving Fiz to develop these players? 20 segments like Mills and Perry?

The Sixers drafted Michael Carter Williams in 2014. There were some scouts comparing him to Penny Hardaway. By the same logic some of you are using, Brown should have been fired after his second year because Williams declined from his rookie year to his 2nd before he was traded all together. Williams has been on a decline ever since and is now a journeymen. Maybe Knox is what he is, a journeymen! Maybe Frank is what he is, a back up. Either way, he has shown improvement this year and Fiz should be credited for it.

We have a very long way to go and as soon as some of us see some adversity or things dont go exactly the way we want them to, we jump ship. Rebuilding is ugly!!! Rebuilkdng takes a lot of patients which most of us are proving not to have.

I agree but that impromptu press conference with Mills and Perry where they said they were evaluating the team every ten games was a disaster. Fiz and the team haven't responded so far. It will be interesting to see how they respond after some time in the gym together and a really bad loss. I also am interested to see how the team plays once Payton is back. Fiz definitely deserves more time. If the front office is thinking about giving Miller a chance, after the all star break might be the time. A lot of speculation out there that Fiz is going to last the season and then be fired as the scapegoat to buy another year for Mills.

The idea of calling that press conference was asinine and not only did it throw Fiz under the bus, but it unintentionally or intentionally depending who's article you read, put Fiz on the hot seat.

When Perry was hired, and the front office began prioritizing salary cap management, keeping and trading for 1st round picks, trying to build with youth, I wanted to be optimistic that we were finally going to rebuild this thing the right way, but knew at some point, Dolan wouldn't be able to stay out of the way. The press conference he called shows that he cant keep from meddling and staying the course may be out of the question.

If he fires Fiz, the spotlight will move to the front office and if we struggle again next year, which we will because we are far from ready to compete, Dolan will fire Perry and began another search for another front office puppet that will have his hands cuffed again.

This all politics not basketball.
No one can get to heaven before he spend a while in hell.
And this were we are.
Fiz or no-Fiz will not change anything and will not make this process faster.
So in conclusion his firing has only political value and not clear in the benefit of whom.

This thread was created to discuss the "purpose" firing Fiz would serve. I don't believe in firing him just because the team stinks.

But if they fired him for
A- To use the remaining of this throw away season to evaluate Mike Miller as a interim
B- Let him go and put in place someone who can actually show results when it comes to player development.

Those would be purposes I could get behind.

The irony is also that the reasoning to why Fiz shouldn't be fired is stictly because of how it would look publicly. Not based on results or anything basketball orientated he is doing where fans can say he just needs more time for his vision to come to fruition.

Yet you wanna claim politics. So then lets take the politics out of it. Name me the basketball reasons why he shouldn't be let go?

The basketball reason to fire Fiz do not exist.
The team we have cannot win more that 25-30 games at best when all main peaces are healthy regardless of the coach.
We can try to check some new name with the perception of "player development coach" but it can be same or worth result from keeping Fiz.
knicks1248 want to let him run with the money but I don't.
I want him to suffer the whole prison term and work for the money at lest as a scapegoat.
His firing will start the domino effect which will erase everything that done in last 1,5 seasons and Knicks will need to start over from 0 yet again.
I agree that firing him will be psychological release for fans and great food for media to eat. But I personalty don't give a dam about psychotic fans and greedy writers.

So firing Fiz and getting anyone else in here will start dominoes falling. Got ya. What dominoes are still standing at this point? Your dream of picking #1 in next year's lottery? Seeing how long it takes for Barrett to end up in the Fiz doghouse?

Scapegoats don't work, they are spit upon, and then cast out into the desert to die.

The Giants are going through the same prison sentence right now, and firing the coach (and possibly the FO) now would just allow more valuable time for getting the best candidates in line inserted for the next regime. Especially since the Gints are now possibly staring at the #1 pick in the draft. I don't want next year's draft messed up by Perry/Fiz/Mills. Since Perry/Mills have already made the publicly embarrassing statements that essentially cut Fiz loose. If we're tanking and developing yoots, while auditioning trade pieces, good enough. Let's do that with someone else as coach.

What's the worst thing that could happen? We start losing games by 50?

Maybe we actually put somebody on the bench and in the locker room who doesn't come right out and admit he's lost his team.

arkrud wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

arkrud wrote:

Uptown wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Uptown wrote:Firing Fiz in the second year of a rebuild Sends the message that the circus is back at MSG and perhaps never left. If we fire Fiz, the new coach will be our 6th HC in 6 years!! We will remind the league that we are and always will be the poster franchise for ineptitude and turmoil.

Last year was a wash as we unapologetically tanked, and now, after 20 plus games, in year two of a rebuild, we want to for him? Because he can't compete with a roster full of journeymen and backups?! Development is a slow process, it has taken Frank 3 years to move from a G-League level talent, to legit back-up pg status. Mudiay had the best year of his short career last year. That don't count? How much time are we giving Fiz to develop these players? 20 segments like Mills and Perry?

The Sixers drafted Michael Carter Williams in 2014. There were some scouts comparing him to Penny Hardaway. By the same logic some of you are using, Brown should have been fired after his second year because Williams declined from his rookie year to his 2nd before he was traded all together. Williams has been on a decline ever since and is now a journeymen. Maybe Knox is what he is, a journeymen! Maybe Frank is what he is, a back up. Either way, he has shown improvement this year and Fiz should be credited for it.

We have a very long way to go and as soon as some of us see some adversity or things dont go exactly the way we want them to, we jump ship. Rebuilding is ugly!!! Rebuilkdng takes a lot of patients which most of us are proving not to have.

I agree but that impromptu press conference with Mills and Perry where they said they were evaluating the team every ten games was a disaster. Fiz and the team haven't responded so far. It will be interesting to see how they respond after some time in the gym together and a really bad loss. I also am interested to see how the team plays once Payton is back. Fiz definitely deserves more time. If the front office is thinking about giving Miller a chance, after the all star break might be the time. A lot of speculation out there that Fiz is going to last the season and then be fired as the scapegoat to buy another year for Mills.

The idea of calling that press conference was asinine and not only did it throw Fiz under the bus, but it unintentionally or intentionally depending who's article you read, put Fiz on the hot seat.

When Perry was hired, and the front office began prioritizing salary cap management, keeping and trading for 1st round picks, trying to build with youth, I wanted to be optimistic that we were finally going to rebuild this thing the right way, but knew at some point, Dolan wouldn't be able to stay out of the way. The press conference he called shows that he cant keep from meddling and staying the course may be out of the question.

If he fires Fiz, the spotlight will move to the front office and if we struggle again next year, which we will because we are far from ready to compete, Dolan will fire Perry and began another search for another front office puppet that will have his hands cuffed again.

This all politics not basketball.
No one can get to heaven before he spend a while in hell.
And this were we are.
Fiz or no-Fiz will not change anything and will not make this process faster.
So in conclusion his firing has only political value and not clear in the benefit of whom.

This thread was created to discuss the "purpose" firing Fiz would serve. I don't believe in firing him just because the team stinks.

But if they fired him for
A- To use the remaining of this throw away season to evaluate Mike Miller as a interim
B- Let him go and put in place someone who can actually show results when it comes to player development.

Those would be purposes I could get behind.

The irony is also that the reasoning to why Fiz shouldn't be fired is stictly because of how it would look publicly. Not based on results or anything basketball orientated he is doing where fans can say he just needs more time for his vision to come to fruition.

Yet you wanna claim politics. So then lets take the politics out of it. Name me the basketball reasons why he shouldn't be let go?

The basketball reason to fire Fiz do not exist.
The team we have cannot win more that 25-30 games at best when all main peaces are healthy regardless of the coach.
We can try to check some new name with the perception of "player development coach" but it can be same or worth result from keeping Fiz.
knicks1248 want to let him run with the money but I don't.
I want him to suffer the whole prison term and work for the money at lest as a scapegoat.
His firing will start the domino effect which will erase everything that done in last 1,5 seasons and Knicks will need to start over from 0 yet again.
I agree that firing him will be psychological release for fans and great food for media to eat. But I personalty don't give a dam about psychotic fans and greedy writers.

How do you know that they can't win with another coach when fizdale is considered the worst coach in the NBA by far

So you want to continue to develop your young players in a toxic losing environment, just to make the coach suffer..that is the dumbest sht i have ever heard

What the hell has Mills done in 1-5 season other than make us the laughing stock in all of sports..just because he held on to a few draft picks that are losing value by the day.

We have been drafting super flawed players that are one dimensional. Guys like Knox, mitch, trier, Dotson, frank, are a drop in the bucket. You think if we draft 5 more of those types we'll be on our way to a championship...by the time those other 5 are drafted, the previous 5 will more than likely be gone.

You want to keep the chef even though the food he cooks is disgustingly nasty just so he can join you in eating it..what sense does that make dude..

We are at ground zero dude, why the hell are you talking about starting from scratch, what are we ahead in?

arkrud wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

arkrud wrote:

Uptown wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Uptown wrote:Firing Fiz in the second year of a rebuild Sends the message that the circus is back at MSG and perhaps never left. If we fire Fiz, the new coach will be our 6th HC in 6 years!! We will remind the league that we are and always will be the poster franchise for ineptitude and turmoil.

Last year was a wash as we unapologetically tanked, and now, after 20 plus games, in year two of a rebuild, we want to for him? Because he can't compete with a roster full of journeymen and backups?! Development is a slow process, it has taken Frank 3 years to move from a G-League level talent, to legit back-up pg status. Mudiay had the best year of his short career last year. That don't count? How much time are we giving Fiz to develop these players? 20 segments like Mills and Perry?

The Sixers drafted Michael Carter Williams in 2014. There were some scouts comparing him to Penny Hardaway. By the same logic some of you are using, Brown should have been fired after his second year because Williams declined from his rookie year to his 2nd before he was traded all together. Williams has been on a decline ever since and is now a journeymen. Maybe Knox is what he is, a journeymen! Maybe Frank is what he is, a back up. Either way, he has shown improvement this year and Fiz should be credited for it.

We have a very long way to go and as soon as some of us see some adversity or things dont go exactly the way we want them to, we jump ship. Rebuilding is ugly!!! Rebuilkdng takes a lot of patients which most of us are proving not to have.

I agree but that impromptu press conference with Mills and Perry where they said they were evaluating the team every ten games was a disaster. Fiz and the team haven't responded so far. It will be interesting to see how they respond after some time in the gym together and a really bad loss. I also am interested to see how the team plays once Payton is back. Fiz definitely deserves more time. If the front office is thinking about giving Miller a chance, after the all star break might be the time. A lot of speculation out there that Fiz is going to last the season and then be fired as the scapegoat to buy another year for Mills.

The idea of calling that press conference was asinine and not only did it throw Fiz under the bus, but it unintentionally or intentionally depending who's article you read, put Fiz on the hot seat.

When Perry was hired, and the front office began prioritizing salary cap management, keeping and trading for 1st round picks, trying to build with youth, I wanted to be optimistic that we were finally going to rebuild this thing the right way, but knew at some point, Dolan wouldn't be able to stay out of the way. The press conference he called shows that he cant keep from meddling and staying the course may be out of the question.

If he fires Fiz, the spotlight will move to the front office and if we struggle again next year, which we will because we are far from ready to compete, Dolan will fire Perry and began another search for another front office puppet that will have his hands cuffed again.

This all politics not basketball.
No one can get to heaven before he spend a while in hell.
And this were we are.
Fiz or no-Fiz will not change anything and will not make this process faster.
So in conclusion his firing has only political value and not clear in the benefit of whom.

This thread was created to discuss the "purpose" firing Fiz would serve. I don't believe in firing him just because the team stinks.

But if they fired him for
A- To use the remaining of this throw away season to evaluate Mike Miller as a interim
B- Let him go and put in place someone who can actually show results when it comes to player development.

Those would be purposes I could get behind.

The irony is also that the reasoning to why Fiz shouldn't be fired is stictly because of how it would look publicly. Not based on results or anything basketball orientated he is doing where fans can say he just needs more time for his vision to come to fruition.

Yet you wanna claim politics. So then lets take the politics out of it. Name me the basketball reasons why he shouldn't be let go?

The basketball reason to fire Fiz do not exist.
The team we have cannot win more that 25-30 games at best when all main peaces are healthy regardless of the coach.
We can try to check some new name with the perception of "player development coach" but it can be same or worth result from keeping Fiz.
knicks1248 want to let him run with the money but I don't.
I want him to suffer the whole prison term and work for the money at lest as a scapegoat.
His firing will start the domino effect which will erase everything that done in last 1,5 seasons and Knicks will need to start over from 0 yet again.
I agree that firing him will be psychological release for fans and great food for media to eat. But I personalty don't give a dam about psychotic fans and greedy writers.

The beauty of that statement is that there is no way to prove if true or not. And again its not about wins and losses its about the progress of the young players.

When the Pacers traded Paul George for at the time underachiving Oladipo and Sabonis who looked like a lotto bust. Everyone thought that they were tearing down and rebuilding. There wasn't anything on that squad that made you feel they were a 48 win team. Heat last season when evalutating their talent they didn't come off as a team that should win more than 25-30 games. Heat this season don't come off as a team that should be 15-5 when evaluating their overal talent. When the Raptors were selling everyone and moved Rudy Gay. Nobody projected Lowry to become as good as he became and for them to start winning at the rate they started winning. Based on talent nobody thought the Nets last season would be a playoff team. The common denominator for teams like this is they were all coached the hell up to the point where they were able to overachieve, establish identities. Where underachiving players started to fullfill their potential. Where late rd draft prospects and journeymen nitched out roles and excelled.

Knicks have played the 2nd easiest strength of schedule in the NBA and have the 2nd worst record in the NBA. The schedule is only going to get harder. Knicks have amoung the worst rated offense and amoung the worst rated defense. Not that to me the losses are the killer. But when you say that the basketball reasons to fire Fiz do not exist.... This alone gets most coaches tarred and feathered, but we are actually being lenient with Fiz.

newyorknewyork wrote:

arkrud wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

arkrud wrote:

Uptown wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Uptown wrote:Firing Fiz in the second year of a rebuild Sends the message that the circus is back at MSG and perhaps never left. If we fire Fiz, the new coach will be our 6th HC in 6 years!! We will remind the league that we are and always will be the poster franchise for ineptitude and turmoil.

Last year was a wash as we unapologetically tanked, and now, after 20 plus games, in year two of a rebuild, we want to for him? Because he can't compete with a roster full of journeymen and backups?! Development is a slow process, it has taken Frank 3 years to move from a G-League level talent, to legit back-up pg status. Mudiay had the best year of his short career last year. That don't count? How much time are we giving Fiz to develop these players? 20 segments like Mills and Perry?

The Sixers drafted Michael Carter Williams in 2014. There were some scouts comparing him to Penny Hardaway. By the same logic some of you are using, Brown should have been fired after his second year because Williams declined from his rookie year to his 2nd before he was traded all together. Williams has been on a decline ever since and is now a journeymen. Maybe Knox is what he is, a journeymen! Maybe Frank is what he is, a back up. Either way, he has shown improvement this year and Fiz should be credited for it.

We have a very long way to go and as soon as some of us see some adversity or things dont go exactly the way we want them to, we jump ship. Rebuilding is ugly!!! Rebuilkdng takes a lot of patients which most of us are proving not to have.

I agree but that impromptu press conference with Mills and Perry where they said they were evaluating the team every ten games was a disaster. Fiz and the team haven't responded so far. It will be interesting to see how they respond after some time in the gym together and a really bad loss. I also am interested to see how the team plays once Payton is back. Fiz definitely deserves more time. If the front office is thinking about giving Miller a chance, after the all star break might be the time. A lot of speculation out there that Fiz is going to last the season and then be fired as the scapegoat to buy another year for Mills.

The idea of calling that press conference was asinine and not only did it throw Fiz under the bus, but it unintentionally or intentionally depending who's article you read, put Fiz on the hot seat.

When Perry was hired, and the front office began prioritizing salary cap management, keeping and trading for 1st round picks, trying to build with youth, I wanted to be optimistic that we were finally going to rebuild this thing the right way, but knew at some point, Dolan wouldn't be able to stay out of the way. The press conference he called shows that he cant keep from meddling and staying the course may be out of the question.

If he fires Fiz, the spotlight will move to the front office and if we struggle again next year, which we will because we are far from ready to compete, Dolan will fire Perry and began another search for another front office puppet that will have his hands cuffed again.

This all politics not basketball.
No one can get to heaven before he spend a while in hell.
And this were we are.
Fiz or no-Fiz will not change anything and will not make this process faster.
So in conclusion his firing has only political value and not clear in the benefit of whom.

This thread was created to discuss the "purpose" firing Fiz would serve. I don't believe in firing him just because the team stinks.

But if they fired him for
A- To use the remaining of this throw away season to evaluate Mike Miller as a interim
B- Let him go and put in place someone who can actually show results when it comes to player development.

Those would be purposes I could get behind.

The irony is also that the reasoning to why Fiz shouldn't be fired is stictly because of how it would look publicly. Not based on results or anything basketball orientated he is doing where fans can say he just needs more time for his vision to come to fruition.

Yet you wanna claim politics. So then lets take the politics out of it. Name me the basketball reasons why he shouldn't be let go?

The basketball reason to fire Fiz do not exist.
The team we have cannot win more that 25-30 games at best when all main peaces are healthy regardless of the coach.
We can try to check some new name with the perception of "player development coach" but it can be same or worth result from keeping Fiz.
knicks1248 want to let him run with the money but I don't.
I want him to suffer the whole prison term and work for the money at lest as a scapegoat.
His firing will start the domino effect which will erase everything that done in last 1,5 seasons and Knicks will need to start over from 0 yet again.
I agree that firing him will be psychological release for fans and great food for media to eat. But I personalty don't give a dam about psychotic fans and greedy writers.

The beauty of that statement is that there is no way to prove if true or not. And again its not about wins and losses its about the progress of the young players.

When the Pacers traded Paul George for at the time underachiving Oladipo and Sabonis who looked like a lotto bust. Everyone thought that they were tearing down and rebuilding. There wasn't anything on that squad that made you feel they were a 48 win team. Heat last season when evalutating their talent they didn't come off as a team that should win more than 25-30 games. Heat this season don't come off as a team that should be 15-5 when evaluating their overal talent. When the Raptors were selling everyone and moved Rudy Gay. Nobody projected Lowry to become as good as he became and for them to start winning at the rate they started winning. Based on talent nobody thought the Nets last season would be a playoff team. The common denominator for teams like this is they were all coached the hell up to the point where they were able to overachieve, establish identities. Where underachiving players started to fullfill their potential. Where late rd draft prospects and journeymen nitched out roles and excelled.

Knicks have played the 2nd easiest strength of schedule in the NBA and have the 2nd worst record in the NBA. The schedule is only going to get harder. Knicks have amoung the worst rated offense and amoung the worst rated defense. Not that to me the losses are the killer. But when you say that the basketball reasons to fire Fiz do not exist.... This alone gets most coaches tarred and feathered, but we are actually being lenient with Fiz.

very good post..

arkrud wrote:

Vmart wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

arkrud wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

arkrud wrote:

Uptown wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Uptown wrote:Firing Fiz in the second year of a rebuild Sends the message that the circus is back at MSG and perhaps never left. If we fire Fiz, the new coach will be our 6th HC in 6 years!! We will remind the league that we are and always will be the poster franchise for ineptitude and turmoil.

Last year was a wash as we unapologetically tanked, and now, after 20 plus games, in year two of a rebuild, we want to for him? Because he can't compete with a roster full of journeymen and backups?! Development is a slow process, it has taken Frank 3 years to move from a G-League level talent, to legit back-up pg status. Mudiay had the best year of his short career last year. That don't count? How much time are we giving Fiz to develop these players? 20 segments like Mills and Perry?

The Sixers drafted Michael Carter Williams in 2014. There were some scouts comparing him to Penny Hardaway. By the same logic some of you are using, Brown should have been fired after his second year because Williams declined from his rookie year to his 2nd before he was traded all together. Williams has been on a decline ever since and is now a journeymen. Maybe Knox is what he is, a journeymen! Maybe Frank is what he is, a back up. Either way, he has shown improvement this year and Fiz should be credited for it.

We have a very long way to go and as soon as some of us see some adversity or things dont go exactly the way we want them to, we jump ship. Rebuilding is ugly!!! Rebuilkdng takes a lot of patients which most of us are proving not to have.

I agree but that impromptu press conference with Mills and Perry where they said they were evaluating the team every ten games was a disaster. Fiz and the team haven't responded so far. It will be interesting to see how they respond after some time in the gym together and a really bad loss. I also am interested to see how the team plays once Payton is back. Fiz definitely deserves more time. If the front office is thinking about giving Miller a chance, after the all star break might be the time. A lot of speculation out there that Fiz is going to last the season and then be fired as the scapegoat to buy another year for Mills.

The idea of calling that press conference was asinine and not only did it throw Fiz under the bus, but it unintentionally or intentionally depending who's article you read, put Fiz on the hot seat.

When Perry was hired, and the front office began prioritizing salary cap management, keeping and trading for 1st round picks, trying to build with youth, I wanted to be optimistic that we were finally going to rebuild this thing the right way, but knew at some point, Dolan wouldn't be able to stay out of the way. The press conference he called shows that he cant keep from meddling and staying the course may be out of the question.

If he fires Fiz, the spotlight will move to the front office and if we struggle again next year, which we will because we are far from ready to compete, Dolan will fire Perry and began another search for another front office puppet that will have his hands cuffed again.

This all politics not basketball.
No one can get to heaven before he spend a while in hell.
And this were we are.
Fiz or no-Fiz will not change anything and will not make this process faster.
So in conclusion his firing has only political value and not clear in the benefit of whom.

This thread was created to discuss the "purpose" firing Fiz would serve. I don't believe in firing him just because the team stinks.

But if they fired him for
A- To use the remaining of this throw away season to evaluate Mike Miller as a interim
B- Let him go and put in place someone who can actually show results when it comes to player development.

Those would be purposes I could get behind.

The irony is also that the reasoning to why Fiz shouldn't be fired is stictly because of how it would look publicly. Not based on results or anything basketball orientated he is doing where fans can say he just needs more time for his vision to come to fruition.

Yet you wanna claim politics. So then lets take the politics out of it. Name me the basketball reasons why he shouldn't be let go?

The basketball reason to fire Fiz do not exist.
The team we have cannot win more that 25-30 games at best when all main peaces are healthy regardless of the coach.
We can try to check some new name with the perception of "player development coach" but it can be same or worth result from keeping Fiz.
knicks1248 want to let him run with the money but I don't.
I want him to suffer the whole prison term and work for the money at lest as a scapegoat.
His firing will start the domino effect which will erase everything that done in last 1,5 seasons and Knicks will need to start over from 0 yet again.
I agree that firing him will be psychological release for fans and great food for media to eat. But I personalty don't give a dam about psychotic fans and greedy writers.

How do you know that they can't win with another coach when fizdale is considered the worst coach in the NBA by far

So you want to continue to develop your young players in a toxic losing environment, just to make the coach suffer..that is the dumbest sht i have ever heard

What the hell has Mills done in 1-5 season other than make us the laughing stock in all of sports..just because he held on to a few draft picks that are losing value by the day.

We have been drafting super flawed players that are one dimensional. Guys like Knox, mitch, trier, Dotson, frank, are a drop in the bucket. You think if we draft 5 more of those types we'll be on our way to a championship...by the time those other 5 are drafted, the previous 5 will more than likely be gone.

You want to keep the chef even though the food he cooks is disgustingly nasty just so he can join you in eating it..what sense does that make dude..

We are at ground zero dude, why the hell are you talking about starting from scratch, what are we ahead in?

I don’t believe the Knicks have drafted super flawed players. I think you need to distinguish between players and franchise. The Knicks are a super flawed franchise which in turn make any player look super flawed. The Knicks have never been known as a developmentally strong organization. There have been many draft picks that come through the Knicks only to become role players because they are unable to give them the necessary avenues to hone their skills and take it to another level. There have been many that have joined the Knicks shown promise the first year and then fade away in to oblivion or become role players for other teams.

Who are this many who showed promise, faded away, and worked elsewhere?
RJ is the highest draft we get since Patrick. And we traded most of the picks.
This organization is flawed but firing FO and coach will only continue this pattern.
All arguments are based on premise that this roster is build to win but it was not.
This notion is just marketing trick. This team is build to lose a couple of years.
Lose on purpose. Because no other way to build team in NBA does note exist.

You are partially answering the question in your retort. The Knicks don’t develop because they trade away the picks. Guys like Ariza second round pick showed promise even went on to play an integral role on a Championship team. Simply put the Knicks do not know how to develop talent because they don’t know how to invest in them. They are always caught up in between win now and rebuild.
Fizdale was brought in as a win now coach. He was suppose to be coaching KD and Kyrie. He is not a developmental coach. Yeah he won in Miami but it wasn’t a developmental position not with Wade, LeBron and Bosh. In Memphis it was not a developmental position and he shyt the bed there. Now he is on a semi developmental team and basically shutting the bed again. Go ahead give Fizdale 1 more year give 10 but he will lose a lot and players will not get developed. It’s about the youth movement.

Vmart wrote:

arkrud wrote:

Vmart wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

arkrud wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

arkrud wrote:

Uptown wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Uptown wrote:Firing Fiz in the second year of a rebuild Sends the message that the circus is back at MSG and perhaps never left. If we fire Fiz, the new coach will be our 6th HC in 6 years!! We will remind the league that we are and always will be the poster franchise for ineptitude and turmoil.

Last year was a wash as we unapologetically tanked, and now, after 20 plus games, in year two of a rebuild, we want to for him? Because he can't compete with a roster full of journeymen and backups?! Development is a slow process, it has taken Frank 3 years to move from a G-League level talent, to legit back-up pg status. Mudiay had the best year of his short career last year. That don't count? How much time are we giving Fiz to develop these players? 20 segments like Mills and Perry?

The Sixers drafted Michael Carter Williams in 2014. There were some scouts comparing him to Penny Hardaway. By the same logic some of you are using, Brown should have been fired after his second year because Williams declined from his rookie year to his 2nd before he was traded all together. Williams has been on a decline ever since and is now a journeymen. Maybe Knox is what he is, a journeymen! Maybe Frank is what he is, a back up. Either way, he has shown improvement this year and Fiz should be credited for it.

We have a very long way to go and as soon as some of us see some adversity or things dont go exactly the way we want them to, we jump ship. Rebuilding is ugly!!! Rebuilkdng takes a lot of patients which most of us are proving not to have.

I agree but that impromptu press conference with Mills and Perry where they said they were evaluating the team every ten games was a disaster. Fiz and the team haven't responded so far. It will be interesting to see how they respond after some time in the gym together and a really bad loss. I also am interested to see how the team plays once Payton is back. Fiz definitely deserves more time. If the front office is thinking about giving Miller a chance, after the all star break might be the time. A lot of speculation out there that Fiz is going to last the season and then be fired as the scapegoat to buy another year for Mills.

The idea of calling that press conference was asinine and not only did it throw Fiz under the bus, but it unintentionally or intentionally depending who's article you read, put Fiz on the hot seat.

When Perry was hired, and the front office began prioritizing salary cap management, keeping and trading for 1st round picks, trying to build with youth, I wanted to be optimistic that we were finally going to rebuild this thing the right way, but knew at some point, Dolan wouldn't be able to stay out of the way. The press conference he called shows that he cant keep from meddling and staying the course may be out of the question.

If he fires Fiz, the spotlight will move to the front office and if we struggle again next year, which we will because we are far from ready to compete, Dolan will fire Perry and began another search for another front office puppet that will have his hands cuffed again.

This all politics not basketball.
No one can get to heaven before he spend a while in hell.
And this were we are.
Fiz or no-Fiz will not change anything and will not make this process faster.
So in conclusion his firing has only political value and not clear in the benefit of whom.

This thread was created to discuss the "purpose" firing Fiz would serve. I don't believe in firing him just because the team stinks.

But if they fired him for
A- To use the remaining of this throw away season to evaluate Mike Miller as a interim
B- Let him go and put in place someone who can actually show results when it comes to player development.

Those would be purposes I could get behind.

The irony is also that the reasoning to why Fiz shouldn't be fired is stictly because of how it would look publicly. Not based on results or anything basketball orientated he is doing where fans can say he just needs more time for his vision to come to fruition.

Yet you wanna claim politics. So then lets take the politics out of it. Name me the basketball reasons why he shouldn't be let go?

The basketball reason to fire Fiz do not exist.
The team we have cannot win more that 25-30 games at best when all main peaces are healthy regardless of the coach.
We can try to check some new name with the perception of "player development coach" but it can be same or worth result from keeping Fiz.
knicks1248 want to let him run with the money but I don't.
I want him to suffer the whole prison term and work for the money at lest as a scapegoat.
His firing will start the domino effect which will erase everything that done in last 1,5 seasons and Knicks will need to start over from 0 yet again.
I agree that firing him will be psychological release for fans and great food for media to eat. But I personalty don't give a dam about psychotic fans and greedy writers.

How do you know that they can't win with another coach when fizdale is considered the worst coach in the NBA by far

So you want to continue to develop your young players in a toxic losing environment, just to make the coach suffer..that is the dumbest sht i have ever heard

What the hell has Mills done in 1-5 season other than make us the laughing stock in all of sports..just because he held on to a few draft picks that are losing value by the day.

We have been drafting super flawed players that are one dimensional. Guys like Knox, mitch, trier, Dotson, frank, are a drop in the bucket. You think if we draft 5 more of those types we'll be on our way to a championship...by the time those other 5 are drafted, the previous 5 will more than likely be gone.

You want to keep the chef even though the food he cooks is disgustingly nasty just so he can join you in eating it..what sense does that make dude..

We are at ground zero dude, why the hell are you talking about starting from scratch, what are we ahead in?

I don’t believe the Knicks have drafted super flawed players. I think you need to distinguish between players and franchise. The Knicks are a super flawed franchise which in turn make any player look super flawed. The Knicks have never been known as a developmentally strong organization. There have been many draft picks that come through the Knicks only to become role players because they are unable to give them the necessary avenues to hone their skills and take it to another level. There have been many that have joined the Knicks shown promise the first year and then fade away in to oblivion or become role players for other teams.

Who are this many who showed promise, faded away, and worked elsewhere?
RJ is the highest draft we get since Patrick. And we traded most of the picks.
This organization is flawed but firing FO and coach will only continue this pattern.
All arguments are based on premise that this roster is build to win but it was not.
This notion is just marketing trick. This team is build to lose a couple of years.
Lose on purpose. Because no other way to build team in NBA does note exist.

You are partially answering the question in your retort. The Knicks don’t develop because they trade away the picks. Guys like Ariza second round pick showed promise even went on to play an integral role on a Championship team. Simply put the Knicks do not know how to develop talent because they don’t know how to invest in them. They are always caught up in between win now and rebuild.
Fizdale was brought in as a win now coach. He was suppose to be coaching KD and Kyrie. He is not a developmental coach. Yeah he won in Miami but it wasn’t a developmental position not with Wade, LeBron and Bosh. In Memphis it was not a developmental position and he shyt the bed there. Now he is on a semi developmental team and basically shutting the bed again. Go ahead give Fizdale 1 more year give 10 but he will lose a lot and players will not get developed. It’s about the youth movement.

BigDaddyG wrote:

Vmart wrote:

arkrud wrote:

Vmart wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

arkrud wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

arkrud wrote:

Uptown wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Uptown wrote:Firing Fiz in the second year of a rebuild Sends the message that the circus is back at MSG and perhaps never left. If we fire Fiz, the new coach will be our 6th HC in 6 years!! We will remind the league that we are and always will be the poster franchise for ineptitude and turmoil.

Last year was a wash as we unapologetically tanked, and now, after 20 plus games, in year two of a rebuild, we want to for him? Because he can't compete with a roster full of journeymen and backups?! Development is a slow process, it has taken Frank 3 years to move from a G-League level talent, to legit back-up pg status. Mudiay had the best year of his short career last year. That don't count? How much time are we giving Fiz to develop these players? 20 segments like Mills and Perry?

The Sixers drafted Michael Carter Williams in 2014. There were some scouts comparing him to Penny Hardaway. By the same logic some of you are using, Brown should have been fired after his second year because Williams declined from his rookie year to his 2nd before he was traded all together. Williams has been on a decline ever since and is now a journeymen. Maybe Knox is what he is, a journeymen! Maybe Frank is what he is, a back up. Either way, he has shown improvement this year and Fiz should be credited for it.

We have a very long way to go and as soon as some of us see some adversity or things dont go exactly the way we want them to, we jump ship. Rebuilding is ugly!!! Rebuilkdng takes a lot of patients which most of us are proving not to have.

I agree but that impromptu press conference with Mills and Perry where they said they were evaluating the team every ten games was a disaster. Fiz and the team haven't responded so far. It will be interesting to see how they respond after some time in the gym together and a really bad loss. I also am interested to see how the team plays once Payton is back. Fiz definitely deserves more time. If the front office is thinking about giving Miller a chance, after the all star break might be the time. A lot of speculation out there that Fiz is going to last the season and then be fired as the scapegoat to buy another year for Mills.

The idea of calling that press conference was asinine and not only did it throw Fiz under the bus, but it unintentionally or intentionally depending who's article you read, put Fiz on the hot seat.

When Perry was hired, and the front office began prioritizing salary cap management, keeping and trading for 1st round picks, trying to build with youth, I wanted to be optimistic that we were finally going to rebuild this thing the right way, but knew at some point, Dolan wouldn't be able to stay out of the way. The press conference he called shows that he cant keep from meddling and staying the course may be out of the question.

If he fires Fiz, the spotlight will move to the front office and if we struggle again next year, which we will because we are far from ready to compete, Dolan will fire Perry and began another search for another front office puppet that will have his hands cuffed again.

This all politics not basketball.
No one can get to heaven before he spend a while in hell.
And this were we are.
Fiz or no-Fiz will not change anything and will not make this process faster.
So in conclusion his firing has only political value and not clear in the benefit of whom.

This thread was created to discuss the "purpose" firing Fiz would serve. I don't believe in firing him just because the team stinks.

But if they fired him for
A- To use the remaining of this throw away season to evaluate Mike Miller as a interim
B- Let him go and put in place someone who can actually show results when it comes to player development.

Those would be purposes I could get behind.

The irony is also that the reasoning to why Fiz shouldn't be fired is stictly because of how it would look publicly. Not based on results or anything basketball orientated he is doing where fans can say he just needs more time for his vision to come to fruition.

Yet you wanna claim politics. So then lets take the politics out of it. Name me the basketball reasons why he shouldn't be let go?

The basketball reason to fire Fiz do not exist.
The team we have cannot win more that 25-30 games at best when all main peaces are healthy regardless of the coach.
We can try to check some new name with the perception of "player development coach" but it can be same or worth result from keeping Fiz.
knicks1248 want to let him run with the money but I don't.
I want him to suffer the whole prison term and work for the money at lest as a scapegoat.
His firing will start the domino effect which will erase everything that done in last 1,5 seasons and Knicks will need to start over from 0 yet again.
I agree that firing him will be psychological release for fans and great food for media to eat. But I personalty don't give a dam about psychotic fans and greedy writers.

How do you know that they can't win with another coach when fizdale is considered the worst coach in the NBA by far

So you want to continue to develop your young players in a toxic losing environment, just to make the coach suffer..that is the dumbest sht i have ever heard

What the hell has Mills done in 1-5 season other than make us the laughing stock in all of sports..just because he held on to a few draft picks that are losing value by the day.

We have been drafting super flawed players that are one dimensional. Guys like Knox, mitch, trier, Dotson, frank, are a drop in the bucket. You think if we draft 5 more of those types we'll be on our way to a championship...by the time those other 5 are drafted, the previous 5 will more than likely be gone.

You want to keep the chef even though the food he cooks is disgustingly nasty just so he can join you in eating it..what sense does that make dude..

We are at ground zero dude, why the hell are you talking about starting from scratch, what are we ahead in?

I don’t believe the Knicks have drafted super flawed players. I think you need to distinguish between players and franchise. The Knicks are a super flawed franchise which in turn make any player look super flawed. The Knicks have never been known as a developmentally strong organization. There have been many draft picks that come through the Knicks only to become role players because they are unable to give them the necessary avenues to hone their skills and take it to another level. There have been many that have joined the Knicks shown promise the first year and then fade away in to oblivion or become role players for other teams.

Who are this many who showed promise, faded away, and worked elsewhere?
RJ is the highest draft we get since Patrick. And we traded most of the picks.
This organization is flawed but firing FO and coach will only continue this pattern.
All arguments are based on premise that this roster is build to win but it was not.
This notion is just marketing trick. This team is build to lose a couple of years.
Lose on purpose. Because no other way to build team in NBA does note exist.

You are partially answering the question in your retort. The Knicks don’t develop because they trade away the picks. Guys like Ariza second round pick showed promise even went on to play an integral role on a Championship team. Simply put the Knicks do not know how to develop talent because they don’t know how to invest in them. They are always caught up in between win now and rebuild.
Fizdale was brought in as a win now coach. He was suppose to be coaching KD and Kyrie. He is not a developmental coach. Yeah he won in Miami but it wasn’t a developmental position not with Wade, LeBron and Bosh. In Memphis it was not a developmental position and he shyt the bed there. Now he is on a semi developmental team and basically shutting the bed again. Go ahead give Fizdale 1 more year give 10 but he will lose a lot and players will not get developed. It’s about the youth movement.

Didn't David Lee, Wilson Chandler, Nate Robinson and Gallinari show development here? KP seemed to develop while he was here? For every Ariza there's a Willy Hernangomez. Fix said himself his goal is to develop. Don't White Knight for this dude. He knew what he was signing up for. How much credit ate we really going to give him for Miami's success? He had mixed results in Memphis. He did develop some guys there, true. But he got blasted for the same reasons he gets blasted here. His rotations and in game decision making are questionable.

knicks1248 wrote:

arkrud wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Vmart wrote:

arkrud wrote:

Vmart wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

arkrud wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

arkrud wrote:

Uptown wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Uptown wrote:Firing Fiz in the second year of a rebuild Sends the message that the circus is back at MSG and perhaps never left. If we fire Fiz, the new coach will be our 6th HC in 6 years!! We will remind the league that we are and always will be the poster franchise for ineptitude and turmoil.

Last year was a wash as we unapologetically tanked, and now, after 20 plus games, in year two of a rebuild, we want to for him? Because he can't compete with a roster full of journeymen and backups?! Development is a slow process, it has taken Frank 3 years to move from a G-League level talent, to legit back-up pg status. Mudiay had the best year of his short career last year. That don't count? How much time are we giving Fiz to develop these players? 20 segments like Mills and Perry?

The Sixers drafted Michael Carter Williams in 2014. There were some scouts comparing him to Penny Hardaway. By the same logic some of you are using, Brown should have been fired after his second year because Williams declined from his rookie year to his 2nd before he was traded all together. Williams has been on a decline ever since and is now a journeymen. Maybe Knox is what he is, a journeymen! Maybe Frank is what he is, a back up. Either way, he has shown improvement this year and Fiz should be credited for it.

We have a very long way to go and as soon as some of us see some adversity or things dont go exactly the way we want them to, we jump ship. Rebuilding is ugly!!! Rebuilkdng takes a lot of patients which most of us are proving not to have.

I agree but that impromptu press conference with Mills and Perry where they said they were evaluating the team every ten games was a disaster. Fiz and the team haven't responded so far. It will be interesting to see how they respond after some time in the gym together and a really bad loss. I also am interested to see how the team plays once Payton is back. Fiz definitely deserves more time. If the front office is thinking about giving Miller a chance, after the all star break might be the time. A lot of speculation out there that Fiz is going to last the season and then be fired as the scapegoat to buy another year for Mills.

The idea of calling that press conference was asinine and not only did it throw Fiz under the bus, but it unintentionally or intentionally depending who's article you read, put Fiz on the hot seat.

When Perry was hired, and the front office began prioritizing salary cap management, keeping and trading for 1st round picks, trying to build with youth, I wanted to be optimistic that we were finally going to rebuild this thing the right way, but knew at some point, Dolan wouldn't be able to stay out of the way. The press conference he called shows that he cant keep from meddling and staying the course may be out of the question.

If he fires Fiz, the spotlight will move to the front office and if we struggle again next year, which we will because we are far from ready to compete, Dolan will fire Perry and began another search for another front office puppet that will have his hands cuffed again.

This all politics not basketball.
No one can get to heaven before he spend a while in hell.
And this were we are.
Fiz or no-Fiz will not change anything and will not make this process faster.
So in conclusion his firing has only political value and not clear in the benefit of whom.

This thread was created to discuss the "purpose" firing Fiz would serve. I don't believe in firing him just because the team stinks.

But if they fired him for
A- To use the remaining of this throw away season to evaluate Mike Miller as a interim
B- Let him go and put in place someone who can actually show results when it comes to player development.

Those would be purposes I could get behind.

The irony is also that the reasoning to why Fiz shouldn't be fired is stictly because of how it would look publicly. Not based on results or anything basketball orientated he is doing where fans can say he just needs more time for his vision to come to fruition.

Yet you wanna claim politics. So then lets take the politics out of it. Name me the basketball reasons why he shouldn't be let go?

The basketball reason to fire Fiz do not exist.
The team we have cannot win more that 25-30 games at best when all main peaces are healthy regardless of the coach.
We can try to check some new name with the perception of "player development coach" but it can be same or worth result from keeping Fiz.
knicks1248 want to let him run with the money but I don't.
I want him to suffer the whole prison term and work for the money at lest as a scapegoat.
His firing will start the domino effect which will erase everything that done in last 1,5 seasons and Knicks will need to start over from 0 yet again.
I agree that firing him will be psychological release for fans and great food for media to eat. But I personalty don't give a dam about psychotic fans and greedy writers.

How do you know that they can't win with another coach when fizdale is considered the worst coach in the NBA by far

So you want to continue to develop your young players in a toxic losing environment, just to make the coach suffer..that is the dumbest sht i have ever heard

What the hell has Mills done in 1-5 season other than make us the laughing stock in all of sports..just because he held on to a few draft picks that are losing value by the day.

We have been drafting super flawed players that are one dimensional. Guys like Knox, mitch, trier, Dotson, frank, are a drop in the bucket. You think if we draft 5 more of those types we'll be on our way to a championship...by the time those other 5 are drafted, the previous 5 will more than likely be gone.

You want to keep the chef even though the food he cooks is disgustingly nasty just so he can join you in eating it..what sense does that make dude..

We are at ground zero dude, why the hell are you talking about starting from scratch, what are we ahead in?

I don’t believe the Knicks have drafted super flawed players. I think you need to distinguish between players and franchise. The Knicks are a super flawed franchise which in turn make any player look super flawed. The Knicks have never been known as a developmentally strong organization. There have been many draft picks that come through the Knicks only to become role players because they are unable to give them the necessary avenues to hone their skills and take it to another level. There have been many that have joined the Knicks shown promise the first year and then fade away in to oblivion or become role players for other teams.

Who are this many who showed promise, faded away, and worked elsewhere?
RJ is the highest draft we get since Patrick. And we traded most of the picks.
This organization is flawed but firing FO and coach will only continue this pattern.
All arguments are based on premise that this roster is build to win but it was not.
This notion is just marketing trick. This team is build to lose a couple of years.
Lose on purpose. Because no other way to build team in NBA does note exist.

You are partially answering the question in your retort. The Knicks don’t develop because they trade away the picks. Guys like Ariza second round pick showed promise even went on to play an integral role on a Championship team. Simply put the Knicks do not know how to develop talent because they don’t know how to invest in them. They are always caught up in between win now and rebuild.
Fizdale was brought in as a win now coach. He was suppose to be coaching KD and Kyrie. He is not a developmental coach. Yeah he won in Miami but it wasn’t a developmental position not with Wade, LeBron and Bosh. In Memphis it was not a developmental position and he shyt the bed there. Now he is on a semi developmental team and basically shutting the bed again. Go ahead give Fizdale 1 more year give 10 but he will lose a lot and players will not get developed. It’s about the youth movement.

Didn't David Lee, Wilson Chandler, Nate Robinson and Gallinari show development here? KP seemed to develop while he was here? For every Ariza there's a Willy Hernangomez. Fix said himself his goal is to develop. Don't White Knight for this dude. He knew what he was signing up for. How much credit ate we really going to give him for Miami's success? He had mixed results in Memphis. He did develop some guys there, true. But he got blasted for the same reasons he gets blasted here. His rotations and in game decision making are questionable.

I will agree that he is not a good in-game coach. He is developing himself.
As coach he is as experienced and established as Frank as a player.
As far as development and young players management I see some good and some bad things.
Most of the blame Fiz get is for losing with bad team, for not making it overachieve.
The reality is we do not need established head coach for 2-3 years at all.
We need a team of coaches to work directly with players to improve the skills and physical development.

he is not a pregame coach either, because the knicks look like they have no game plan.

we play zone defense, that is the most telling sign that a coach can't coach

Coach Spo, 2x champ, has his 15-5 Heat team play some zone too and have been playing zone for years....I guess Spo is fraud, huh?

Uptown wrote:Listen from 4:28-5:00 min mark....This is the mentality we need Dolan to have. Hopefully he ignores the noise from the media who is hungry for headlines and hot takes and impatient fans and stays the course....

You have got to be kidding me with this

W...T..F

If your going to post a video, please let it be from a person who has had a lot of success, not some guy who is still trying to figure it out.

We live in a world of results, especially in sports...

If you lose you get fired, that's sports..period.