TheGame wrote:Fiz just needs to turn the team over to Frank and stop with his fantasy of making DSJ the starter at some point in the future. The team plays better with Frank, and DSJ is never going to be a good enough defender to start in the league, so unless his offense and passing jumps up 2-3 levels, he should be used as a spark plug off the bench. The team needs to continue to build up Frank's confidence so we can start getting FIBA Frank every game.

I actually felt he had Smith sit for to long. But understand it because we were rolling in that third. But the long term effect of that is he cooled off from what he had going earlier. And Frank had to take a later longer rest. The 14 pt collapse wasnt on Smith. Don't know why he is the one taking the hit.

Besides Philly is a more talented team. A run is inevitable. We aren't 14 pts better than Philly. When the game was in crunch time and on the line. Morris selfishness tryna stunt for his home is what lost is the game. Barrett also attempted some poor hero ball drives.

When Morris tried to run the coast to coast fast break on 3 defenders, getting blocked. I stopped watching the rest of the game.

This loss was on Fix not taking control of the game

TheGame wrote:Frank is the type that really needs the coach's green light to fully unleash his game. My point is that Frank has a lot of offensive potential in him and he needs that belief from the coaching staff to assert himself. FIBA Frank existed because he knew he was the starter and his team needed him to score. Fiz has never made an statement like "Frank is our point guard." He is playing Frank now out of necessity but he does not talk about Frank the way he talks about RJ or others. You knew from day one RJ was the starter and when Fiz talks about RJ it is clear Fiz considers RJ to be the starter. He never talks about Frank in those terms and that is all I am saying. In my view, if you fully commit to Frank as the guy, that will help Frank's mentality in the game. We are starting to see it now that Frank is consistently getting starter minutes. As his confidence grows, his game is going to grow.

If you think any knick coach that has coach frank is telling him not to shoot or be aggressive, you have lost your mind. Not only has the coaching staff encourage him to shoot, his teammates do as well.

The problem i see is that he's a "shoot as a 3rd option" type player, and his teammates don't trust him in the clutch.

In last nights game (in the clutch) i think it was Randle who pass to him for a wide open 3, and he missed everything, 2 plays later he was wide open again, and morris looked him off..

newyorknewyork wrote:

TheGame wrote:Fiz just needs to turn the team over to Frank and stop with his fantasy of making DSJ the starter at some point in the future. The team plays better with Frank, and DSJ is never going to be a good enough defender to start in the league, so unless his offense and passing jumps up 2-3 levels, he should be used as a spark plug off the bench. The team needs to continue to build up Frank's confidence so we can start getting FIBA Frank every game.

I actually felt he had Smith sit for to long. But understand it because we were rolling in that third. But the long term effect of that is he cooled off from what he had going earlier. And Frank had to take a later longer rest. The 14 pt collapse wasnt on Smith. Don't know why he is the one taking the hit.

Besides Philly is a more talented team. A run is inevitable. We aren't 14 pts better than Philly. When the game was in crunch time and on the line. Morris selfishness tryna stunt for his home is what lost is the game. Barrett also attempted some poor hero ball drives.

When Morris tried to run the coast to coast fast break on 3 defenders, getting blocked. I stopped watching the rest of the game.

This loss was on Fix not taking control of the game

Agree with pretty much everything you said...Smith played one of his better games, but some posters have a bad habit of pitting one knick vs the other (Chandler/Gallo...Spree/Houston, etc) so some Frank supporters are going to place blame on Smith even when its not warranted and vice versa...

Morris definitely forced the action on that play and on the previous play as well....You could see plays like this coming from the summer when he reneged on the Spurs and joined the Knicks. On the Spurs, he's a number 3 option, here, he's a number 1 option. That, and the money was motivating factors I'm sure. Expect more of this as the season prolongs.

Fiz mos def should have called a time-out on the play before the 1 on 3 fastbreak to organize a play (the pick and roll was working from the top of the key and the sidelines). But, in the end, the better team usually clamps down on the D during the last 5 minutes which is what Philly did.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

TheGame wrote:Fiz just needs to turn the team over to Frank and stop with his fantasy of making DSJ the starter at some point in the future. The team plays better with Frank, and DSJ is never going to be a good enough defender to start in the league, so unless his offense and passing jumps up 2-3 levels, he should be used as a spark plug off the bench. The team needs to continue to build up Frank's confidence so we can start getting FIBA Frank every game.

I actually felt he had Smith sit for to long. But understand it because we were rolling in that third. But the long term effect of that is he cooled off from what he had going earlier. And Frank had to take a later longer rest. The 14 pt collapse wasnt on Smith. Don't know why he is the one taking the hit.

Besides Philly is a more talented team. A run is inevitable. We aren't 14 pts better than Philly. When the game was in crunch time and on the line. Morris selfishness tryna stunt for his home is what lost is the game. Barrett also attempted some poor hero ball drives.

When Morris tried to run the coast to coast fast break on 3 defenders, getting blocked. I stopped watching the rest of the game.

This loss was on Fix not taking control of the game

Agree with pretty much everything you said...Smith played one of his better games, but some posters have a bad habit of pitting one knick vs the other (Chandler/Gallo...Spree/Houston, etc) so some Frank supporters are going to place blame on Smith even when its not warranted and vice versa...

Morris definitely forced the action on that play and on the previous play as well....You could see plays like this coming from the summer when he reneged on the Spurs and joined the Knicks. On the Spurs, he's a number 3 option, here, he's a number 1 option. That, and the money was motivating factors I'm sure. Expect more of this as the season prolongs.

Fiz mos def should have called a time-out on the play before the 1 on 3 fastbreak to organize a play (the pick and roll was working from the top of the key and the sidelines). But, in the end, the better team usually clamps down on the D during the last 5 minutes which is what Philly did.

I felt Smith had one of his best games. His defense still needs a lot of work BUT he showed effort which is respect. I actually felt Frank and smith should have played together and both earned those minutes. As for Morris I agree. He would never be able to pull this in San Antonio because Popovich would bench him. Here Fiz has given him free reign. I give credit to Morris for hitting some big sot but he has also had so many terrible ISO possesions that have killed us

I don't necessarily love the combo of Frank and DSJ in the backcourt but a lot of that is bias from coming into the year. Frank is hitting his outside shot so I think it is more promising now.. If Frank's outside shot continues to fall well then DSJ and Frank contrast enough where I like the combination, at least until we draft Anthony Edwards

knicks1248 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

TheGame wrote:Frank is the type that really needs the coach's green light to fully unleash his game. My point is that Frank has a lot of offensive potential in him and he needs that belief from the coaching staff to assert himself. FIBA Frank existed because he knew he was the starter and his team needed him to score. Fiz has never made an statement like "Frank is our point guard." He is playing Frank now out of necessity but he does not talk about Frank the way he talks about RJ or others. You knew from day one RJ was the starter and when Fiz talks about RJ it is clear Fiz considers RJ to be the starter. He never talks about Frank in those terms and that is all I am saying. In my view, if you fully commit to Frank as the guy, that will help Frank's mentality in the game. We are starting to see it now that Frank is consistently getting starter minutes. As his confidence grows, his game is going to grow.

If you think any knick coach that has coach frank is telling him not to shoot or be aggressive, you have lost your mind. Not only has the coaching staff encourage him to shoot, his teammates do as well.

The problem i see is that he's a "shoot as a 3rd option" type player, and his teammates don't trust him in the clutch.

In last nights game (in the clutch) i think it was Randle who pass to him for a wide open 3, and he missed everything, 2 plays later he was wide open again, and morris looked him off..

He missed two shots the whole night. If you are whining about him missing that one 3 and saying that the reason he shouldn't be trusted that's pretty silly. Morris and Randle don't pass to anybody n the 4th and its contributed to a few losses already. I have given Morris credit for hitting big shots this year BUT his constant ISO has ruined possessions.

Im not even going to disagree here, They looked Rj off who had both hands up waiving in the air I'm open, I'm open, for a wide open baseline 3.

Won't blame fiz either, who called 2 time outs to warn them to stop playing selfish..

But when your so used to losing, you alway fall into a lot of old bad habits.

I think randle and morris want to lead this team, but IMO, they have serious trust issues with our young guys down the stretch, and are putting a lot of pressure on themselves to be "THE MAN" which to a certain degree you can't blame them.

As far as our young guys, they have to show that they can be counted on, and are able to knock down clutch shots. It's human nature not trust someone when they don't seem too reliable

A night or so ago, Hahn and Sczcerbiak did one of their drive home Facebook chats and talked about Ntilikina's surprising effectiveness and that the only place he really fits as a point guard is as the starter. The reasoning being that he brings no instant offense off the bench AND that the team actually functions very well in that configuration - so fewer bad starts, fewer deep deficits and so on.

I'll return you now to your regularly scheduled mosh pit wrestling match about how our all-NBA defensive PG is a liability.

Knixkik wrote:

TheGame wrote:Frank is the type that really needs the coach's green light to fully unleash his game. My point is that Frank has a lot of offensive potential in him and he needs that belief from the coaching staff to assert himself. FIBA Frank existed because he knew he was the starter and his team needed him to score. Fiz has never made an statement like "Frank is our point guard." He is playing Frank now out of necessity but he does not talk about Frank the way he talks about RJ or others. You knew from day one RJ was the starter and when Fiz talks about RJ it is clear Fiz considers RJ to be the starter. He never talks about Frank in those terms and that is all I am saying. In my view, if you fully commit to Frank as the guy, that will help Frank's mentality in the game. We are starting to see it now that Frank is consistently getting starter minutes. As his confidence grows, his game is going to grow.

See I don’t think frank has a lot of offensive potential but I don’t necessarily think that’s a bad thing. He’s not athletic, can’t break down defenders, and while his shot passes the eye test, he lacks confidence to be a consistent shooter. But I think if he plays within himself and continues to develop as a shooter and decision maker, he can develop into a league average or slightly below average offensive player. And combine that with his defensive talent and you have a good starter.

Knixkik wrote:

TheGame wrote:Frank is the type that really needs the coach's green light to fully unleash his game. My point is that Frank has a lot of offensive potential in him and he needs that belief from the coaching staff to assert himself. FIBA Frank existed because he knew he was the starter and his team needed him to score. Fiz has never made an statement like "Frank is our point guard." He is playing Frank now out of necessity but he does not talk about Frank the way he talks about RJ or others. You knew from day one RJ was the starter and when Fiz talks about RJ it is clear Fiz considers RJ to be the starter. He never talks about Frank in those terms and that is all I am saying. In my view, if you fully commit to Frank as the guy, that will help Frank's mentality in the game. We are starting to see it now that Frank is consistently getting starter minutes. As his confidence grows, his game is going to grow.

See I don’t think frank has a lot of offensive potential but I don’t necessarily think that’s a bad thing. He’s not athletic, can’t break down defenders, and while his shot passes the eye test, he lacks confidence to be a consistent shooter. But I think if he plays within himself and continues to develop as a shooter and decision maker, he can develop into a league average or slightly below average offensive player. And combine that with his defensive talent and you have a good starter.

He might be first team all defense this yr. If not has that potential in his future. If he is offering first or 2nd team defense. As well as unselfishness of almost double the assist rate to usage rate. If adds league average offense scoring then he would be a unique commodity.

There was a tweet from the other day that I will find later saying that teams shoot 7.7 less FT attempts per 100 possessions when Frank is in the game. Stuff like this is how you low key get a 14 pt lead on the road in Philly.

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

TheGame wrote:Fiz just needs to turn the team over to Frank and stop with his fantasy of making DSJ the starter at some point in the future. The team plays better with Frank, and DSJ is never going to be a good enough defender to start in the league, so unless his offense and passing jumps up 2-3 levels, he should be used as a spark plug off the bench. The team needs to continue to build up Frank's confidence so we can start getting FIBA Frank every game.

I actually felt he had Smith sit for to long. But understand it because we were rolling in that third. But the long term effect of that is he cooled off from what he had going earlier. And Frank had to take a later longer rest. The 14 pt collapse wasnt on Smith. Don't know why he is the one taking the hit.

Besides Philly is a more talented team. A run is inevitable. We aren't 14 pts better than Philly. When the game was in crunch time and on the line. Morris selfishness tryna stunt for his home is what lost is the game. Barrett also attempted some poor hero ball drives.

When Morris tried to run the coast to coast fast break on 3 defenders, getting blocked. I stopped watching the rest of the game.

This loss was on Fix not taking control of the game

Agree with pretty much everything you said...Smith played one of his better games, but some posters have a bad habit of pitting one knick vs the other (Chandler/Gallo...Spree/Houston, etc) so some Frank supporters are going to place blame on Smith even when its not warranted and vice versa...

Morris definitely forced the action on that play and on the previous play as well....You could see plays like this coming from the summer when he reneged on the Spurs and joined the Knicks. On the Spurs, he's a number 3 option, here, he's a number 1 option. That, and the money was motivating factors I'm sure. Expect more of this as the season prolongs.

Fiz mos def should have called a time-out on the play before the 1 on 3 fastbreak to organize a play (the pick and roll was working from the top of the key and the sidelines). But, in the end, the better team usually clamps down on the D during the last 5 minutes which is what Philly did.

the bold is absolute madness. Totally true but like literally the dumbest part of fandom... the best and fastest path for the Knicks to get better is for BOTH of these PGs to elevate their game.

For Frank is hitting the 3 and exploiting physical matchups to score. Obviously being aggressive and efficient at the same time. I believe his low usage and superior D make him the best pairing next to RJ. Thats a huge and imposing starting starting backcourt as it matures (and hopefully blossoms). As for DS he's the 6th man. Start at backup PG and go from there. One thing Fizdale never does is go small. All his linups are big, big and bigger. He's played Knox at SG. The only reason DS shouldnt be getting 30 mins off the bench is DS, I mean he's gotta earn it but for me thats the hope.

Pretty stunning +/- numbers for the season. I threw them into excel cause I am bored.
720 minutes of play this season the Knicks are -104 on the season
363 minutes of play Frank has been on the floor Knicks are -9 (almost a perfect 50% of the time)
357 minutes of play with Frank on the bench Knicks are -95
Franks last 5 games: +2,+4,+4,+22,+2

10 games as a starter: 30mpg, 44.6% FG, 40% 3FG, 7.8ppg, 3.7ast, 1.2TO, 1.9Stl, 1.0blk, 3.3PF

Looks and sounds good.

I know you don't think I like Frank, but if he can keep that (fck it) attitude, it's definitely encouraging.

when he plays passive and defers, I hate him

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

TheGame wrote:Fiz just needs to turn the team over to Frank and stop with his fantasy of making DSJ the starter at some point in the future. The team plays better with Frank, and DSJ is never going to be a good enough defender to start in the league, so unless his offense and passing jumps up 2-3 levels, he should be used as a spark plug off the bench. The team needs to continue to build up Frank's confidence so we can start getting FIBA Frank every game.

I actually felt he had Smith sit for to long. But understand it because we were rolling in that third. But the long term effect of that is he cooled off from what he had going earlier. And Frank had to take a later longer rest. The 14 pt collapse wasnt on Smith. Don't know why he is the one taking the hit.

Besides Philly is a more talented team. A run is inevitable. We aren't 14 pts better than Philly. When the game was in crunch time and on the line. Morris selfishness tryna stunt for his home is what lost is the game. Barrett also attempted some poor hero ball drives.

When Morris tried to run the coast to coast fast break on 3 defenders, getting blocked. I stopped watching the rest of the game.

This loss was on Fix not taking control of the game

Agree with pretty much everything you said...Smith played one of his better games, but some posters have a bad habit of pitting one knick vs the other (Chandler/Gallo...Spree/Houston, etc) so some Frank supporters are going to place blame on Smith even when its not warranted and vice versa...

Morris definitely forced the action on that play and on the previous play as well....You could see plays like this coming from the summer when he reneged on the Spurs and joined the Knicks. On the Spurs, he's a number 3 option, here, he's a number 1 option. That, and the money was motivating factors I'm sure. Expect more of this as the season prolongs.

Fiz mos def should have called a time-out on the play before the 1 on 3 fastbreak to organize a play (the pick and roll was working from the top of the key and the sidelines). But, in the end, the better team usually clamps down on the D during the last 5 minutes which is what Philly did.

the bold is absolute madness. Totally true but like literally the dumbest part of fandom... the best and fastest path for the Knicks to get better is for BOTH of these PGs to elevate their game.

For Frank is hitting the 3 and exploiting physical matchups to score. Obviously being aggressive and efficient at the same time. I believe his low usage and superior D make him the best pairing next to RJ. Thats a huge and imposing starting starting backcourt as it matures (and hopefully blossoms). As for DS he's the 6th man. Start at backup PG and go from there. One thing Fizdale never does is go small. All his linups are big, big and bigger. He's played Knox at SG. The only reason DS shouldnt be getting 30 mins off the bench is DS, I mean he's gotta earn it but for me thats the hope.

Pretty stunning +/- numbers for the season. I threw them into excel cause I am bored.
720 minutes of play this season the Knicks are -104 on the season
363 minutes of play Frank has been on the floor Knicks are -9 (almost a perfect 50% of the time)
357 minutes of play with Frank on the bench Knicks are -95
Franks last 5 games: +2,+4,+4,+22,+2

10 games as a starter: 30mpg, 44.6% FG, 40% 3FG, 7.8ppg, 3.7ast, 1.2TO, 1.9Stl, 1.0blk, 3.3PF

Couldn't agree more on the pg situation....When Dennis and Frank play well, we look so much better....

I would love to see Frank perfect the mid range game. The side PNR, with him and big which allows him to roll to the nail and pull up from 15 feet should be his go to move if the roller isn't available. That shot was pure vs Philly and would like to see him do that moore. All good to elite players have a go-to-shot or a part of the floor they like to get to when they need a bucket. The 15 footer should be his. But, he needs to develop that mentality! He's long enough to get the shot off over most pg's.

Of course, he also needs to improve his 3 point shot...unfortunately when he's in the corner, no one ever passes him the ball. The only one that would look to him and is capable of getting him an open look off penetration is Dennis!

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

TheGame wrote:Fiz just needs to turn the team over to Frank and stop with his fantasy of making DSJ the starter at some point in the future. The team plays better with Frank, and DSJ is never going to be a good enough defender to start in the league, so unless his offense and passing jumps up 2-3 levels, he should be used as a spark plug off the bench. The team needs to continue to build up Frank's confidence so we can start getting FIBA Frank every game.

I actually felt he had Smith sit for to long. But understand it because we were rolling in that third. But the long term effect of that is he cooled off from what he had going earlier. And Frank had to take a later longer rest. The 14 pt collapse wasnt on Smith. Don't know why he is the one taking the hit.

Besides Philly is a more talented team. A run is inevitable. We aren't 14 pts better than Philly. When the game was in crunch time and on the line. Morris selfishness tryna stunt for his home is what lost is the game. Barrett also attempted some poor hero ball drives.

When Morris tried to run the coast to coast fast break on 3 defenders, getting blocked. I stopped watching the rest of the game.

This loss was on Fix not taking control of the game

Agree with pretty much everything you said...Smith played one of his better games, but some posters have a bad habit of pitting one knick vs the other (Chandler/Gallo...Spree/Houston, etc) so some Frank supporters are going to place blame on Smith even when its not warranted and vice versa...

Morris definitely forced the action on that play and on the previous play as well....You could see plays like this coming from the summer when he reneged on the Spurs and joined the Knicks. On the Spurs, he's a number 3 option, here, he's a number 1 option. That, and the money was motivating factors I'm sure. Expect more of this as the season prolongs.

Fiz mos def should have called a time-out on the play before the 1 on 3 fastbreak to organize a play (the pick and roll was working from the top of the key and the sidelines). But, in the end, the better team usually clamps down on the D during the last 5 minutes which is what Philly did.

the bold is absolute madness. Totally true but like literally the dumbest part of fandom... the best and fastest path for the Knicks to get better is for BOTH of these PGs to elevate their game.

For Frank is hitting the 3 and exploiting physical matchups to score. Obviously being aggressive and efficient at the same time. I believe his low usage and superior D make him the best pairing next to RJ. Thats a huge and imposing starting starting backcourt as it matures (and hopefully blossoms). As for DS he's the 6th man. Start at backup PG and go from there. One thing Fizdale never does is go small. All his linups are big, big and bigger. He's played Knox at SG. The only reason DS shouldnt be getting 30 mins off the bench is DS, I mean he's gotta earn it but for me thats the hope.

Pretty stunning +/- numbers for the season. I threw them into excel cause I am bored.
720 minutes of play this season the Knicks are -104 on the season
363 minutes of play Frank has been on the floor Knicks are -9 (almost a perfect 50% of the time)
357 minutes of play with Frank on the bench Knicks are -95
Franks last 5 games: +2,+4,+4,+22,+2

10 games as a starter: 30mpg, 44.6% FG, 40% 3FG, 7.8ppg, 3.7ast, 1.2TO, 1.9Stl, 1.0blk, 3.3PF

Looks and sounds good.

I know you don't think I like Frank, but if he can keep that (fck it) attitude, it's definitely encouraging.

when he plays passive and defers, I hate him

While the fck it attitude is nice. The goal shouldn't be to install more selfishness. It should be to have the whole team fall in line to move the ball to get the best shot possible no matter who is taking it. Players shouldn't be fighting for shot attempts which the player who proves to be the most selfish wins. Frank shouldn't have to take matters into his own hands because his teammates are to selfish. That's not a culture that will produce consistent long term results.