jskinny35 wrote:I think the deals we made reflect that we are retooling for 2021 and hoping that one or two of these young signings will turn into a quality starter. Not sure if that's Randle or Portis yet - as they both has upside and deficiencies. At least they're young, serviceable and tradeable down the road. The vet signings seems to be for both mentoring and flexibility for the coach. Now when Knox and/or Trier is chucking or not playing defense - coach can actually sit them down and hold them more accountable. I would have went for Vonleh over Taj - but he is a tough, scrappy player and our young guys need to learn a better work ethic. Maybe we only needed Ellington or Bullock but again it's only 2 year deals.

Vmart - I agree that Phil saw the writing on the wall with KP before the rest of us... However, if Phil had his way - he would have traded KP to Phx for Josh Jackson and 1 or 2 1st round picks... As much as I liked JJ that trade would have been far worse then the Dallas one as DSJr may still develop while we'd be reading about JJ's baby being exposed to weed...

Hindsight says we should have waited to trade KP as we could have used him in a deal for AD... but we had to make the best decision then and it was risky as some of KP's off court stuff would have been made more public which could have reduced our trade options... His behavior and off court stuff seems to support he was difficult - regardless of our toxic NY environment which also exists.

So we're not gonna be great overnight and make the big FA splash - after so many years of hearing that and then failing - maybe this is finally the most optimistic I have felt as a 40 year fan. The Knicks so far have stuck to their plan - when was the last time we could say that a Knick GM made a plan and didn't cave for a short-sighted move shortly after? Maybe Checketts and Grunfeld?

Are you sure. The way I recall it, it was Devin Booker plus that pick. Jackson wasn't drafted yet

VDesai wrote:Im ok with Portis and Randle, but why invest in veteran role players when you aren't ready to contend. Those spots should be filled by 1 year deals or younger guys (who probably wouldn't be too much worse anyway)- you can't overpay for role players when you don't have a contender yet. We have been making this mistake for 20+ yrs.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/bobbymarks42/status/1145743853045125122

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Chandler wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Chandler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Chandler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Chandler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

arkrud wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:never underestimate the power of denial. We traded our star to which Dolan said, "this is gonna be a BIG YEAR IN FREE AGENCY!!!" We signed three guys that play the same position. Why didn't we just sign a SG to pair with THJ and CLee? This offseason reminds me of getting late to your fantasy draft and you find out your top three picks play the same ****ing postion

The denial about the state of the team as far as readiness to any significant moves this year is really out of charts.
Live is hard my man. Nothing is coming easy. And if is coming easy it slips away even easier.
Only hard road brings the joy of reaching the destination.

There is a middle ground. Losing KP and not replacing him with marquee talent hurt very much. How much of that was KP being a snake/diva or our FO just screwing up the relationship we may or may not know over time. Bottom line is in terms of building the team the KP trade was a big step back and the trade to clear cap space most certainly did not replace that talent. There are legit reasons to be plenty upset with how the team has been handled since the KP trade. Tank/draft was good but the talent didnt go post KP.

As for the guys we signed they 100% address the roster needs. Stop acting like we just signed Al Harrington, Othella Harrington and Clarence Weatherspoon.

Portis and Randle are 24. Both are trending upwards in their careers. Both represent chances to add cornerstone players. Either of those guys could take big steps forward in the next couple years. Look at Portis shooting #s. He was just under 40% from 3 last year. Randle is an eff% horse in the paint. Taj is pure muscle. Ellington a nice vet.

Sucks we whiffed on the big fish. So instead we signed guys with upside to short deals and left us flexible moving forward.

This also puts good pressure on Fizdale to produce.

Fish I like 99% of your posts but only half of this one. Portis and Randle are on their third teams for a reason. It's not that their scum; they're not; but they're not worth the money they just got according to the teams that knew them best. Randle has never been accused of being a high IQ guy, and his defense is suspect. I liked Portis but fear there is something up with Chicago and then Wiz deciding he wasn't a piece to build around.

If KP buys into Dallas and dominates, this current FO will go down as the worst ever. Alienated their best player (a process started by Phil); all of the supposed "charisma" in the world so we could lure Gibson, ELlington and Bullock to our empire

Portis was moved from Chi because they drafted Lauri and Carter and needed him to secure Porter. Wiz have Thomas Bryant and Hachimora who they are rebuilding with. They will look to spend the money they have on wing help. Lakers let Randle go just like they did Lopez and Russell. NOP let Randle go because they landed Zion.

Like I said, they're not scum but they were not considered foundational at this point by two separate teams each.

IMO they are players that are good for our current circumstance. Like all teams, we will depend on the progression of Smith & Barrett(2 lotto picks). If Smith and Barrett become high quality players then all of a sudden the combination of Smith, Barrett, Randle, Portis, and whoever steps up out of Robinson, Knox, Trier, Dotson, Frank etc. Will be closer to the level that we are trying to get to.

Maybe we are a borderline playoff now. Then next season a disgruntled star wants out. Randle with one year left putting up 20-8-3 will hold value to match salary and give production to take a further step. Or Smith and Barrett become those all star calibre players and Knicks move from borderline to 6th seed or something in 2 seasons with 60-70mil in cap again.

Young productive players with short term salaries will always hold value in this league.

You may be right, and I hope you are. I'd rather the Knicks succeed and I be wrong. Time will tell

I bet on you being wrong....no offense lol

Honestly, no offense, but you're betting against me doesn't bother me. Now if you were an intelligent poster I'd feel differently

Wow sensitive much? Its was a friendly little joke but whatever. Carry on the negativity its funny

My apologies. I didn't appreciate you were just trying to have some fun

Admittedly, I'm a bit ornery lately (which I blame the Knicks for. )

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/StevePopper/status/1145749514776694785

LMAO

Frank Who

Chandler wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Chandler wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Chandler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Chandler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Chandler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

arkrud wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:never underestimate the power of denial. We traded our star to which Dolan said, "this is gonna be a BIG YEAR IN FREE AGENCY!!!" We signed three guys that play the same position. Why didn't we just sign a SG to pair with THJ and CLee? This offseason reminds me of getting late to your fantasy draft and you find out your top three picks play the same ****ing postion

The denial about the state of the team as far as readiness to any significant moves this year is really out of charts.
Live is hard my man. Nothing is coming easy. And if is coming easy it slips away even easier.
Only hard road brings the joy of reaching the destination.

There is a middle ground. Losing KP and not replacing him with marquee talent hurt very much. How much of that was KP being a snake/diva or our FO just screwing up the relationship we may or may not know over time. Bottom line is in terms of building the team the KP trade was a big step back and the trade to clear cap space most certainly did not replace that talent. There are legit reasons to be plenty upset with how the team has been handled since the KP trade. Tank/draft was good but the talent didnt go post KP.

As for the guys we signed they 100% address the roster needs. Stop acting like we just signed Al Harrington, Othella Harrington and Clarence Weatherspoon.

Portis and Randle are 24. Both are trending upwards in their careers. Both represent chances to add cornerstone players. Either of those guys could take big steps forward in the next couple years. Look at Portis shooting #s. He was just under 40% from 3 last year. Randle is an eff% horse in the paint. Taj is pure muscle. Ellington a nice vet.

Sucks we whiffed on the big fish. So instead we signed guys with upside to short deals and left us flexible moving forward.

This also puts good pressure on Fizdale to produce.

Fish I like 99% of your posts but only half of this one. Portis and Randle are on their third teams for a reason. It's not that their scum; they're not; but they're not worth the money they just got according to the teams that knew them best. Randle has never been accused of being a high IQ guy, and his defense is suspect. I liked Portis but fear there is something up with Chicago and then Wiz deciding he wasn't a piece to build around.

If KP buys into Dallas and dominates, this current FO will go down as the worst ever. Alienated their best player (a process started by Phil); all of the supposed "charisma" in the world so we could lure Gibson, ELlington and Bullock to our empire

Portis was moved from Chi because they drafted Lauri and Carter and needed him to secure Porter. Wiz have Thomas Bryant and Hachimora who they are rebuilding with. They will look to spend the money they have on wing help. Lakers let Randle go just like they did Lopez and Russell. NOP let Randle go because they landed Zion.

Like I said, they're not scum but they were not considered foundational at this point by two separate teams each.

IMO they are players that are good for our current circumstance. Like all teams, we will depend on the progression of Smith & Barrett(2 lotto picks). If Smith and Barrett become high quality players then all of a sudden the combination of Smith, Barrett, Randle, Portis, and whoever steps up out of Robinson, Knox, Trier, Dotson, Frank etc. Will be closer to the level that we are trying to get to.

Maybe we are a borderline plaIts not being a playyoff now. Then next season a disgruntled star wants out. Randle with one year left putting up 20-8-3 will hold value to match salary and give production to take a further step. Or Smith and Barrett become those all star calibre players and Knicks move from borderline to 6th seed or something in 2 seasons with 60-70mil in cap again.

Young productive players with short term salaries will always hold value in this league.

You may be right, and I hope you are. I'd rather the Knicks succeed and I be wrong. Time will tell

I bet on you being wrong....no offense lol

Honestly, no offense, but you're betting against me doesn't bother me. Now if you were an intelligent poster I'd feel differently

Wow sensitive much? Its was a friendly little joke but whatever. Carry on the negativity its funny

My apologies. I didn't appreciate you were just trying to have some fun

Admittedly, I'm a bit ornery lately (which I blame the Knicks for. )

Chandler wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Chandler wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Chandler wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Chandler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Chandler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Chandler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

arkrud wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:never underestimate the power of denial. We traded our star to which Dolan said, "this is gonna be a BIG YEAR IN FREE AGENCY!!!" We signed three guys that play the same position. Why didn't we just sign a SG to pair with THJ and CLee? This offseason reminds me of getting late to your fantasy draft and you find out your top three picks play the same ****ing postion

The denial about the state of the team as far as readiness to any significant moves this year is really out of charts.
Live is hard my man. Nothing is coming easy. And if is coming easy it slips away even easier.
Only hard road brings the joy of reaching the destination.

There is a middle ground. Losing KP and not replacing him with marquee talent hurt very much. How much of that was KP being a snake/diva or our FO just screwing up the relationship we may or may not know over time. Bottom line is in terms of building the team the KP trade was a big step back and the trade to clear cap space most certainly did not replace that talent. There are legit reasons to be plenty upset with how the team has been handled since the KP trade. Tank/draft was good but the talent didnt go post KP.

As for the guys we signed they 100% address the roster needs. Stop acting like we just signed Al Harrington, Othella Harrington and Clarence Weatherspoon.

Portis and Randle are 24. Both are trending upwards in their careers. Both represent chances to add cornerstone players. Either of those guys could take big steps forward in the next couple years. Look at Portis shooting #s. He was just under 40% from 3 last year. Randle is an eff% horse in the paint. Taj is pure muscle. Ellington a nice vet.

Sucks we whiffed on the big fish. So instead we signed guys with upside to short deals and left us flexible moving forward.

This also puts good pressure on Fizdale to produce.

Fish I like 99% of your posts but only half of this one. Portis and Randle are on their third teams for a reason. It's not that their scum; they're not; but they're not worth the money they just got according to the teams that knew them best. Randle has never been accused of being a high IQ guy, and his defense is suspect. I liked Portis but fear there is something up with Chicago and then Wiz deciding he wasn't a piece to build around.

If KP buys into Dallas and dominates, this current FO will go down as the worst ever. Alienated their best player (a process started by Phil); all of the supposed "charisma" in the world so we could lure Gibson, ELlington and Bullock to our empire

Portis was moved from Chi because they drafted Lauri and Carter and needed him to secure Porter. Wiz have Thomas Bryant and Hachimora who they are rebuilding with. They will look to spend the money they have on wing help. Lakers let Randle go just like they did Lopez and Russell. NOP let Randle go because they landed Zion.

Like I said, they're not scum but they were not considered foundational at this point by two separate teams each.

IMO they are players that are good for our current circumstance. Like all teams, we will depend on the progression of Smith & Barrett(2 lotto picks). If Smith and Barrett become high quality players then all of a sudden the combination of Smith, Barrett, Randle, Portis, and whoever steps up out of Robinson, Knox, Trier, Dotson, Frank etc. Will be closer to the level that we are trying to get to.

Maybe we are a borderline plaIts not being a playyoff now. Then next season a disgruntled star wants out. Randle with one year left putting up 20-8-3 will hold value to match salary and give production to take a further step. Or Smith and Barrett become those all star calibre players and Knicks move from borderline to 6th seed or something in 2 seasons with 60-70mil in cap again.

Young productive players with short term salaries will always hold value in this league.

You may be right, and I hope you are. I'd rather the Knicks succeed and I be wrong. Time will tell

I bet on you being wrong....no offense lol

Honestly, no offense, but you're betting against me doesn't bother me. Now if you were an intelligent poster I'd feel differently

Wow sensitive much? Its was a friendly little joke but whatever. Carry on the negativity its funny

My apologies. I didn't appreciate you were just trying to have some fun

Admittedly, I'm a bit ornery lately (which I blame the Knicks for. )

I understand that. Look Im not doing cartwheels either lol. However I have wanted to do a rebuild since I was basically still in high school. For 15 years we threw away unprotected picks like candy and ended up in worse shape. Yes I understand 2010 stung like hell yes I understand 2019 stings worse BUT unlike 2010 we didn't make panic moves. We added some good support around our youngsters while also eep flexibility for the 2021 class. Are we a better team? Yes Are we a contender? Hell no but I do think we will play meaning ful basketball. More importantly we didn't throw away any assets like years past. I admit I was a big KP fan but I grew tired of his diva attitude. Also his injuries are a big red flag. And I did notice he would get destroyed when going up against certain guys and tire out easily. Its not about being a "homer" because god knows I have criticized this organization as much as anybody this past decade. However I do believe this is the right plan. We have some really good young payers who will get better. These picks we got our good mix of younger guys and solid veterans. They are all on two year deals and may even be valueable in trades next season to gain more assets. So Again im not saying you should be happy but its not all doom and gloom IMO.

KP is 23 and a string bean. We gave up on that. Even the great LBJ and MJ needed some time to strengthen up/toughen up. We should have continued to develop him and coach him up. Us poisoning that relationship is on par with the dumbest moves this team has ever made (and there's a lot of competition for dumb moves)

He deserves blame too.

arkrud wrote:Very satisfied with the free agency results.
No malcontents, no albatross contracts, no overpaying.
Great job by FO in another step into right direction.
Respect.

Not bad but still need a stud#1 soon

Knicks don't develop NO lead #1 studs since
P.Ewing , Clyde Frazier.. Reed etc.

Wont improve without legit #1 anyhow anyway you.can
Get em's

nykshaknbake wrote:The signings aren't great. I'm guessing that Kawahi told them no and then it was like who else is there to sign. Randle is a decent signing as is Portis, but the rest are 1 year filler. I feel the FO did the best they could. It's really not worth it to tank any more, so they put together a temporary team that should be improved and hopefully build a better culture for the core youths. We'll get a chance again in a year or 2. What we did not want is to offer crazy money to Russell or Harris out of desperation. The media and fans in this city are desperate for a big splash. The fact we didn't cave into that shows this FO has more poise than this organization has had in decades.