Welpee wrote:

martin wrote:

martin wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Andrew wrote:Philly had a ton of cap space right? Did they just basically add Chandler in the off-season and strike out on any big time players?

They re-signed Redick, which was important to them (I think for $12mil). They lost 2 of their shooters though- Belinelli and Ilyasova, but I think they can easy replace them with some of the players available (Bjelica, Ellington etc)

Jerryd Bayless is sunk cost but an expirer. They do need all the shooters they can get, so I could see them trading Bayless for Courtney Lee depending on what they think of Zhaire Smith and the position he plays. I think we could get one of their younger players that don't get playing time like Justin Anderson, Timothe Luwawu and/or Furkan Korkmaz. I've seen a little of Justin Anderson with the Mavericks but the other two are mysteries. In any case, we have a lot of roster spots that need to be filled, so I'd be willing to audition them given how well the Sixers have drafted talent.

Philly has a finite number of years they can sign a big/max UFA just like the Knicks, and for Philly 2019 will be their last barring trade. In 2018 they had a shot and missed, and I think they will have 1 more shot in 2019.

So, just like the Knicks, would you want Lee's $13M on the roster as a "shooter" or would you want the cap space and a shot at a max guy?

Philly ain't trading for Lee. Just resigned Reddick and at last year's deadline were able to pick up Ilyasova and Belinelli - shooters. And if Philly strikes out at next years deadline and need a shooter cause Reddick doesn't cut it, they will have the cap space to absorb a shooter and a pick for the cost of doing so.

Just posted on ESPN:

http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-41022725-4

Philadelphia after a summer of signing or trading for players on one-year contracts now project to enter the summer of 2019 with $42M in cap space. Because of the restricted free agency of Ben Simmons and Dario Saric in 2020, the window to use room will begin to close after next off-season.

Bobby Marks, ESPN

Not that I'm advocating that Philly would be interested in Lee, but wouldn't he come off the books when Saric and Simmons become free agents?

He would, but Philly needs cap space in 2019 for a max free agent. 2019 is the key year.

martin wrote:

Welpee wrote:

martin wrote:

martin wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Andrew wrote:Philly had a ton of cap space right? Did they just basically add Chandler in the off-season and strike out on any big time players?

They re-signed Redick, which was important to them (I think for $12mil). They lost 2 of their shooters though- Belinelli and Ilyasova, but I think they can easy replace them with some of the players available (Bjelica, Ellington etc)

Jerryd Bayless is sunk cost but an expirer. They do need all the shooters they can get, so I could see them trading Bayless for Courtney Lee depending on what they think of Zhaire Smith and the position he plays. I think we could get one of their younger players that don't get playing time like Justin Anderson, Timothe Luwawu and/or Furkan Korkmaz. I've seen a little of Justin Anderson with the Mavericks but the other two are mysteries. In any case, we have a lot of roster spots that need to be filled, so I'd be willing to audition them given how well the Sixers have drafted talent.

Philly has a finite number of years they can sign a big/max UFA just like the Knicks, and for Philly 2019 will be their last barring trade. In 2018 they had a shot and missed, and I think they will have 1 more shot in 2019.

So, just like the Knicks, would you want Lee's $13M on the roster as a "shooter" or would you want the cap space and a shot at a max guy?

Philly ain't trading for Lee. Just resigned Reddick and at last year's deadline were able to pick up Ilyasova and Belinelli - shooters. And if Philly strikes out at next years deadline and need a shooter cause Reddick doesn't cut it, they will have the cap space to absorb a shooter and a pick for the cost of doing so.

Just posted on ESPN:

http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-41022725-4

Philadelphia after a summer of signing or trading for players on one-year contracts now project to enter the summer of 2019 with $42M in cap space. Because of the restricted free agency of Ben Simmons and Dario Saric in 2020, the window to use room will begin to close after next off-season.

Bobby Marks, ESPN

Not that I'm advocating that Philly would be interested in Lee, but wouldn't he come off the books when Saric and Simmons become free agents?

He would, but Philly needs cap space in 2019 for a max free agent. 2019 is the key year.

martin wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Andrew wrote:Philly had a ton of cap space right? Did they just basically add Chandler in the off-season and strike out on any big time players?

They re-signed Redick, which was important to them (I think for $12mil). They lost 2 of their shooters though- Belinelli and Ilyasova, but I think they can easy replace them with some of the players available (Bjelica, Ellington etc)

Jerryd Bayless is sunk cost but an expirer. They do need all the shooters they can get, so I could see them trading Bayless for Courtney Lee depending on what they think of Zhaire Smith and the position he plays. I think we could get one of their younger players that don't get playing time like Justin Anderson, Timothe Luwawu and/or Furkan Korkmaz. I've seen a little of Justin Anderson with the Mavericks but the other two are mysteries. In any case, we have a lot of roster spots that need to be filled, so I'd be willing to audition them given how well the Sixers have drafted talent.

Philly has a finite number of years they can sign a big/max UFA just like the Knicks, and for Philly 2019 will be their last barring trade. In 2018 they had a shot and missed, and I think they will have 1 more shot in 2019.

So, just like the Knicks, would you want Lee's $13M on the roster as a "shooter" or would you want the cap space and a shot at a max guy?

Philly ain't trading for Lee. Just resigned Reddick and at last year's deadline were able to pick up Ilyasova and Belinelli - shooters. And if Philly strikes out at next years deadline and need a shooter cause Reddick doesn't cut it, they will have the cap space to absorb a shooter and a pick for the cost of doing so.

Fair points. I completely forgot the Sixers can have max cap space even with Embiid's and Covington's contracts set to kick in.

TripleThreat wrote:

TheGame wrote:Lee is making about what he is worth. At some point, whether due to injury or a team outperforming expectations and wanting to make a playoff push, some team is going to be willing to trade for Lee. If we got a second round pick for him I would be happy. The main thing next summer is to find the right max player. I am not sold on Irvin primarily because he always seems hurt. The dream scenario would be to sign Leonard and then do a sign and trade of Hardaway and a 1st round pick for Klay Thompson.

Lee is, in no way, shape or form, making what he is "worth"

Lee got his contract during a massive uptick in the salary cap without any kind of controls or smoothing option. He also got a gross overpay by a team that was gutted and needed to offer a higher AAV/contract length to sign players in the first place. Much of his production last year came from volume, because the Knicks had no one else and had injuries. In a different format, with depth, Lee is going to be a bench player on most contender level teams.

A rebuilding team/tanking team has zero use for Lee. Unless they want to dump a really ugly contract. Knicks won't make that deal.

A contending team will want to stay out of the tax zone as much as possible/preserve cap space for next offseason.

The 12 million this year might be palatable for some teams, the AGE 34 season NEXT YEAR at 12 million AAV is simply untenable.

Here is the larger problem. There are several people in this thread who are saying Courtney Lee is a solid player but does not have trade value BASED ON HIS CONTRACT LENGTH AND AAV.

Several other people are taking it that Courtney Lee has no value as a NBA player or has no use in an NBA rotation.

Lee is a USEFUL player. You can be a USEFUL PLAYER and still have NO REAL TRADE VALUE. Noah can actually be a useful player this year. He can help an NBA team a little somewhere. But he has no real trade value. Not for his contract length and AAV.

Apparently for some, this needs to be in bright neon lights. Lee is a useful player, but has limited to no trade value. Otherwise he would have been traded already.

I have yet to see an actual practical trade proposal from a contender level franchise that would pass The Mirror Test and wouldn't be an outright horse****ing of either the Knicks or the non Knicks franchise.

Pretty much Spot on. Lee's value will be greatest in February when injuries and reality set in for wannabe contending teams. *Some* team will have a real need that Lee fills and that will be that.

In the meanwhile Lee is a very talented vet to have on the team - nothing wrong with that. A sixth man role more likely than not.

You know how tough it is to focus playing in NYC on the big stage. We have already seen guys getting shot at strip clubs, whats the other guys with the dreads who got into a altercation at a club and broke his leg.

Thats why so many young players fail to develop in this town. Think about how starks, mason and ward were developed, think of the type of players they had around them, the winning culture and hard work . We got THJ at the same point of his career as we got ALLAN HOUSTON, but look at the difference in culture.

Look at tatum and browns development, winning culture bring winning habits

knicks1248 wrote:They will not trade lee or any veterans on this team unless they get back another vet who's on board. Some of you don't understand the process of development, you just want to put a bunch of kids on the floor and watch them rack up 60 losses and develop a ton of bad habits(seen franks bad habits still exist). The off court mentoring is a key to development. You can't have Knox turning to frank or dotson for advise.

You know how tough it is to focus playing in NYC on the big stage. We have already seen guys getting shot at strip clubs, whats the other guys with the dreads who got into a altercation at a club and broke his leg.

Thats why so many young players fail to develop in this town. Think about how starks, mason and ward were developed, think of the type of players they had around them, the winning culture and hard work . We got THJ at the same point of his career as we got ALLAN HOUSTON, but look at the difference in culture.

Look at tatum and browns development, winning culture bring winning habits

They would gladly trade Lee for cap space. With the hopes they could land Kyrie and another piece(If Noah is stretched) and maintain some of their depth pieces such as Burke, Williams, Mario & Kornet who are all expiring and will get salary increases. Even if they strike out they would have cap space to replace a player like Lee for cheaper salary. Which is most likely the reason why he won't be able to get dealt. All those 1 yr contracts that you made a thread about are due to teams preserving cap for 2019 free agency.

I would rather lose Lee this season for cap if it was possible. Putting Knicks in position to land Kyrie and another piece and retain some of the depth pieces. This would lead to winning more so than Lee would himself.

Not only that, but if Knicks strike out in FA then with KP getting an extension, and with players like

Burke:(Early bird 1.8x175% = 3.15mil, maybe he signs that for one yr to get full bird rights, or we eat cap space at a 4-8mil deal over muli yrs)

Williams:(Early bird 1.5x175% = 2.6mil, same as Burke he either signs that for one yr to get full bird or we eat cap space with a 4 mil per yr type deal)

Mario: I have heard we have some type of bird rights with Mario but don't know how its possible. Would appreciate for someone in the know to break that down. But without it Mario could command blind estimation of 6-12mil depending on his play if we strike out in FA to retain him.

Kornet:(Early bird 1.6x175% = 2.8mil which he either signs a one yr deal to get full bird, or we eat cap space at around 4 mil per yr type deal)

Plus the 2020 draft pick(If lotto 3-6mil). Our 2020 cap number won't be there.

Our best shot to attempt to make a big move while retaining depth would be dumping Lee and targeting 2019 before KP extends in order to potentially create enough talent and depth to have a sustainable winning team.

The other route to take would be to scrap the 2019 cap space route. Target a Luol Deng from LA for an Ingram and another smaller piece. Then Target another unwanted player in the Mozgov type mold who runs into 2020 for another first round talent type piece. Forgetting about using cap space to sign FA but using the other teams desires to get cap space to acquire talent to go with the talent we have in place.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:They will not trade lee or any veterans on this team unless they get back another vet who's on board. Some of you don't understand the process of development, you just want to put a bunch of kids on the floor and watch them rack up 60 losses and develop a ton of bad habits(seen franks bad habits still exist). The off court mentoring is a key to development. You can't have Knox turning to frank or dotson for advise.

You know how tough it is to focus playing in NYC on the big stage. We have already seen guys getting shot at strip clubs, whats the other guys with the dreads who got into a altercation at a club and broke his leg.

Thats why so many young players fail to develop in this town. Think about how starks, mason and ward were developed, think of the type of players they had around them, the winning culture and hard work . We got THJ at the same point of his career as we got ALLAN HOUSTON, but look at the difference in culture.

Look at tatum and browns development, winning culture bring winning habits

if they recieving a good offer that includes a decent draft pick they will definetly trade him. Nobody says we should just have the whole team be 20 years old but its obvious we are a team building with youth and the draft....as much as you hate that

If you roster isn't balance it's going to take that much longer, and others thing will start to go bad. Ever drive a car with 3 good tires and a doughnut, can't go 75mph, the car pulls to one side and it takes you that much longer to get to your destination, everything has to be balance to run smooth.

Lee isn't worth no 1st rnd draft pick or high 2nd, and a trade for him is difficult.

What contending team has a player making his salary and a yr shorter, why would they give up an expiring contract for lee, he does have value so your not taking any trash for him, we can't absorb a lee for 2 or 3 players cause we dont have the roster space. Contending teams are capped out and so are we, and it would be fck up to trade him to lottery team. FA would look at that.

sealy wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:if they recieving a good offer that includes a decent draft pick they will definetly trade him. Nobody says we should just have the whole team be 20 years old but its obvious we are a team building with youth and the draft....as much as you hate that

Contenders, at or near the deadline, will consider

A) Any other player who can help this year and is an EXPIRING CONTRACT.

B) Any other player who would cheaper to get in terms of trade compensation

C) Any other player they can sign for the veteran's minimum for the rest of the season (pro rated even) and would not have to take the 12 million AAV Lee forces upon that team next year.

Jose Calderon floated around last year. Is he a better player than Lee? He's a better shooter but not a better overall player. However he's not costing you 12 million AAV and trade compensation either. Is the difference between Lee and someone like Calderon going to be worth 12 million AAV ( and likely a tax hit) for another season plus losing what you gave up in trade?

One of the reasons people talk themselves into trade rape, which always fails the Mirror Test, is they treat their trade proposals as if "Non Knicks Team X MUST trade for Knicks Player Y and Z, or there is NO OTHER TRADE POSSIBLE"

If the Knicks traded a draft pick for Courtney Lee, ate his 4th year and the tax hit that came with it and did so instead of signing some bought out player, how do you think fans would react?

If you think it would be a ****ty trade for the Knicks, why would any other non Knicks team feel any different from their side?

Hardway and or Lee and Lance for Ryan Anderson's expiring 20mm contract looks to work on the trade machine.

Why it works?

Houtson gets some semblance of D w/ Lance they lost w/ Ariza and Mbah a Moute. Hardaway gives them more firepower needed to play G and is the type of guy Dantoni could get alot of out of.

Don't think this would complicate them retaining Capella. Just don't see Melo going there bc of Dantoni

Knicks could use some shooters and he wouldn't add to our win total so we can stay in the lottery and then have he and Kanter come off the books (maybe stretch Noah as well)for a possibility at Butler and Irving next summer.

Anderson has 2 more years left, not 1