meloshouldgo wrote:

fishmike wrote:
But I guess now Kyrie is just a dumb scorer. Yea.. lets pass.

This is not Melo

Knicks are building a supporting cast of athletic smart guys. Fans dont want to add one of the leagues best scorers?

While some guys are talking if Kyrie makes sense the rest of us can watch him win game 7 by lighting up GS best defenders. Kyrie made Klay and Draymond look like Melo and Afflalo

I would like to add a scorer that's as committed to defense as he is to scoring. Would you say Kyrie is and elite or an above average defender?

Panos wrote:This clip of plays from just one game is flat out incredible. This isn't someone just hoisting up volume 3pt or long range shots. He's taking it to the rim hard and scoring with hands in his face. Let some of that rub off on KP! I think the pairing would be outstanding.

meloshouldgo wrote:

fishmike wrote:
But I guess now Kyrie is just a dumb scorer. Yea.. lets pass.

This is not Melo

Knicks are building a supporting cast of athletic smart guys. Fans dont want to add one of the leagues best scorers?

While some guys are talking if Kyrie makes sense the rest of us can watch him win game 7 by lighting up GS best defenders. Kyrie made Klay and Draymond look like Melo and Afflalo

I would like to add a scorer that's as committed to defense as he is to scoring. Would you say Kyrie is and elite or an above average defender?

Great, and it doesn't even address my question, much less answer it.

martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:

martin wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

martin wrote:Kind of a mind boggling argument to NOT want Kyrie.

I think there will be 3-4 top level guys who you could sign in 2019 for max space that you would want to pursue IF they have not signed with their teams already.

Kyrie, Klay, LeBron, Kawhi. Literally that's it. List others if you have another option, I can't think of any. I don't think the rest of the guys move the needle or are a clear tier down.

LeBron will be 34/35 and won't come to the Knicks, just not enough of a team to get to Finals. I see Klay sticking with GS.

Would the Knicks take Kawhi/Klay over Kyrie? Probably/maybe, if they had the choice... are they more of 2-way players?

I'd say the Knicks would want Kawhi, Kyrie, Klay in that order. And if you could get ANY of them, you do it in a heartbeat, pure upgrade in talent that doesn't cost you outgoing assets.

For me, every deep playoff team needs 1 guy who you can just give the ball to and depend on him to get a bucket. Kawhi/Kyrie fit that to a T, Klay is more of a system guy IMHO.

For all of his defensive and injury deficiencies, you still go after Kryie and if you don't want him a year later, you trade him.

A top level guy that spends the playoffs sitting on bench is deadwood. I would love to get Klay Thompson, though not sure it ever happens. I am just tired of injury riddled players and/or one dimensional chuckers wanting to use the Knicks to line up their pockets for their post basketball years.

That's some nice rhetoric.

Who you signing with the cap space?

that sounds like something Jim Dolan said to Isiah when he was GM!

Let's say Kryie is banged up this year. Nagging stuff, he plays 50 games or so, misses the play offs.

All I am saying- and I think others are too- is it shouldn't be a no brainer to toss max money his way.

Can we save it for a rainy day? Perhaps an opportunity to clear someone else's cap, and collect a few draft picks/assets.

When we get there, if things line up, then yes, I will be excited if we can sign him.

I could see us having enough parts that an impact player like Kyrie can take us to the next level, and its play offs if folks stay healthy.

I think my above posted made it clear: there is a super finite list of players ANY team will be able to sign outright.

What other player you saving your cap space for? And know that it will dwindle to below max if you don't use it.

Name some alternatives.

i would hold on to the cap space till someone who plays defense and also makes the super finite list becomes available. I am not in the business of deciding to do things one way and then changing direction the minute someone who doesn't fit the bill becomes available. Now if we are signing Kyrie to a 2 year deal, I can live with it. But I don't want to be held hostage by the next available chucker for the next five years.

fishmike wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Panos wrote:This clip of plays from just one game is flat out incredible. This isn't someone just hoisting up volume 3pt or long range shots. He's taking it to the rim hard and scoring with hands in his face. Let some of that rub off on KP! I think the pairing would be outstanding.

meloshouldgo wrote:

fishmike wrote:
But I guess now Kyrie is just a dumb scorer. Yea.. lets pass.

This is not Melo

Knicks are building a supporting cast of athletic smart guys. Fans dont want to add one of the leagues best scorers?

While some guys are talking if Kyrie makes sense the rest of us can watch him win game 7 by lighting up GS best defenders. Kyrie made Klay and Draymond look like Melo and Afflalo

I would like to add a scorer that's as committed to defense as he is to scoring. Would you say Kyrie is and elite or an above average defender?

Great, and it doesn't even address my question, much less answer it.

try asking a better question

So it's not ok to ask if he can play defense at a high level when considering him for the max contract?

meloshouldgo wrote:

martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:

martin wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

martin wrote:Kind of a mind boggling argument to NOT want Kyrie.

I think there will be 3-4 top level guys who you could sign in 2019 for max space that you would want to pursue IF they have not signed with their teams already.

Kyrie, Klay, LeBron, Kawhi. Literally that's it. List others if you have another option, I can't think of any. I don't think the rest of the guys move the needle or are a clear tier down.

LeBron will be 34/35 and won't come to the Knicks, just not enough of a team to get to Finals. I see Klay sticking with GS.

Would the Knicks take Kawhi/Klay over Kyrie? Probably/maybe, if they had the choice... are they more of 2-way players?

I'd say the Knicks would want Kawhi, Kyrie, Klay in that order. And if you could get ANY of them, you do it in a heartbeat, pure upgrade in talent that doesn't cost you outgoing assets.

For me, every deep playoff team needs 1 guy who you can just give the ball to and depend on him to get a bucket. Kawhi/Kyrie fit that to a T, Klay is more of a system guy IMHO.

For all of his defensive and injury deficiencies, you still go after Kryie and if you don't want him a year later, you trade him.

A top level guy that spends the playoffs sitting on bench is deadwood. I would love to get Klay Thompson, though not sure it ever happens. I am just tired of injury riddled players and/or one dimensional chuckers wanting to use the Knicks to line up their pockets for their post basketball years.

That's some nice rhetoric.

Who you signing with the cap space?

that sounds like something Jim Dolan said to Isiah when he was GM!

Let's say Kryie is banged up this year. Nagging stuff, he plays 50 games or so, misses the play offs.

All I am saying- and I think others are too- is it shouldn't be a no brainer to toss max money his way.

Can we save it for a rainy day? Perhaps an opportunity to clear someone else's cap, and collect a few draft picks/assets.

When we get there, if things line up, then yes, I will be excited if we can sign him.

I could see us having enough parts that an impact player like Kyrie can take us to the next level, and its play offs if folks stay healthy.

I think my above posted made it clear: there is a super finite list of players ANY team will be able to sign outright.

What other player you saving your cap space for? And know that it will dwindle to below max if you don't use it.

Name some alternatives.

i would hold on to the cap space till someone who plays defense and also makes the super finite list becomes available. I am not in the business of deciding to do things one way and then changing direction the minute someone who doesn't fit the bill becomes available. Now if we are signing Kyrie to a 2 year deal, I can live with it. But I don't want to be held hostage by the next available chucker for the next five years.

All this talk of no brainer decisions kinda remind me of so many past decisions - Phil with Noah and Rose, Staudemire, Melo (2x over).

There are very few no brainer moves in basketball. Especially for a team like the Knicks who have won 20-30 games for basically the last 20 years.

franco12 wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:

martin wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

martin wrote:Kind of a mind boggling argument to NOT want Kyrie.

I think there will be 3-4 top level guys who you could sign in 2019 for max space that you would want to pursue IF they have not signed with their teams already.

Kyrie, Klay, LeBron, Kawhi. Literally that's it. List others if you have another option, I can't think of any. I don't think the rest of the guys move the needle or are a clear tier down.

LeBron will be 34/35 and won't come to the Knicks, just not enough of a team to get to Finals. I see Klay sticking with GS.

Would the Knicks take Kawhi/Klay over Kyrie? Probably/maybe, if they had the choice... are they more of 2-way players?

I'd say the Knicks would want Kawhi, Kyrie, Klay in that order. And if you could get ANY of them, you do it in a heartbeat, pure upgrade in talent that doesn't cost you outgoing assets.

For me, every deep playoff team needs 1 guy who you can just give the ball to and depend on him to get a bucket. Kawhi/Kyrie fit that to a T, Klay is more of a system guy IMHO.

For all of his defensive and injury deficiencies, you still go after Kryie and if you don't want him a year later, you trade him.

A top level guy that spends the playoffs sitting on bench is deadwood. I would love to get Klay Thompson, though not sure it ever happens. I am just tired of injury riddled players and/or one dimensional chuckers wanting to use the Knicks to line up their pockets for their post basketball years.

That's some nice rhetoric.

Who you signing with the cap space?

that sounds like something Jim Dolan said to Isiah when he was GM!

Let's say Kryie is banged up this year. Nagging stuff, he plays 50 games or so, misses the play offs.

All I am saying- and I think others are too- is it shouldn't be a no brainer to toss max money his way.

Can we save it for a rainy day? Perhaps an opportunity to clear someone else's cap, and collect a few draft picks/assets.

When we get there, if things line up, then yes, I will be excited if we can sign him.

I could see us having enough parts that an impact player like Kyrie can take us to the next level, and its play offs if folks stay healthy.

I think my above posted made it clear: there is a super finite list of players ANY team will be able to sign outright.

What other player you saving your cap space for? And know that it will dwindle to below max if you don't use it.

Name some alternatives.

i would hold on to the cap space till someone who plays defense and also makes the super finite list becomes available. I am not in the business of deciding to do things one way and then changing direction the minute someone who doesn't fit the bill becomes available. Now if we are signing Kyrie to a 2 year deal, I can live with it. But I don't want to be held hostage by the next available chucker for the next five years.

All this talk of no brainer decisions kinda remind me of so many past decisions - Phil with Noah and Rose, Staudemire, Melo (2x over).

There are very few no brainer moves in basketball. Especially for a team like the Knicks who have won 20-30 games for basically the last 20 years.

Saying Phil signing Noah and Rose were no brainers, is absurd, and that's not hindsight. I barfed when he made those moves.
There was concern about Stoudmire due to his injuries, but people were on board with the risk, including me.
It's well documented that many people were not happy in the moment, and expressed it for many years about neither the Melo trade, nor the Melo NTC signing, so again, not no-brainer.
Barring MVPs, i don't give an NTC to any player, unless they're giving some huge concession in return, like a big discount.
No brainer for Kyrie, may be overstated given his injuries, but not because of his defensive deficiencies. I think its a move you make. But absolutely no NTC.

Panos wrote:

franco12 wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:

martin wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

martin wrote:Kind of a mind boggling argument to NOT want Kyrie.

I think there will be 3-4 top level guys who you could sign in 2019 for max space that you would want to pursue IF they have not signed with their teams already.

Kyrie, Klay, LeBron, Kawhi. Literally that's it. List others if you have another option, I can't think of any. I don't think the rest of the guys move the needle or are a clear tier down.

LeBron will be 34/35 and won't come to the Knicks, just not enough of a team to get to Finals. I see Klay sticking with GS.

Would the Knicks take Kawhi/Klay over Kyrie? Probably/maybe, if they had the choice... are they more of 2-way players?

I'd say the Knicks would want Kawhi, Kyrie, Klay in that order. And if you could get ANY of them, you do it in a heartbeat, pure upgrade in talent that doesn't cost you outgoing assets.

For me, every deep playoff team needs 1 guy who you can just give the ball to and depend on him to get a bucket. Kawhi/Kyrie fit that to a T, Klay is more of a system guy IMHO.

For all of his defensive and injury deficiencies, you still go after Kryie and if you don't want him a year later, you trade him.

A top level guy that spends the playoffs sitting on bench is deadwood. I would love to get Klay Thompson, though not sure it ever happens. I am just tired of injury riddled players and/or one dimensional chuckers wanting to use the Knicks to line up their pockets for their post basketball years.

That's some nice rhetoric.

Who you signing with the cap space?

that sounds like something Jim Dolan said to Isiah when he was GM!

Let's say Kryie is banged up this year. Nagging stuff, he plays 50 games or so, misses the play offs.

All I am saying- and I think others are too- is it shouldn't be a no brainer to toss max money his way.

Can we save it for a rainy day? Perhaps an opportunity to clear someone else's cap, and collect a few draft picks/assets.

When we get there, if things line up, then yes, I will be excited if we can sign him.

I could see us having enough parts that an impact player like Kyrie can take us to the next level, and its play offs if folks stay healthy.

I think my above posted made it clear: there is a super finite list of players ANY team will be able to sign outright.

What other player you saving your cap space for? And know that it will dwindle to below max if you don't use it.

Name some alternatives.

i would hold on to the cap space till someone who plays defense and also makes the super finite list becomes available. I am not in the business of deciding to do things one way and then changing direction the minute someone who doesn't fit the bill becomes available. Now if we are signing Kyrie to a 2 year deal, I can live with it. But I don't want to be held hostage by the next available chucker for the next five years.

All this talk of no brainer decisions kinda remind me of so many past decisions - Phil with Noah and Rose, Staudemire, Melo (2x over).

There are very few no brainer moves in basketball. Especially for a team like the Knicks who have won 20-30 games for basically the last 20 years.

Saying Phil signing Noah and Rose were no brainers, is absurd, and that's not hindsight. I barfed when he made those moves.
There was concern about Stoudmire due to his injuries, but people were on board with the risk, including me.
It's well documented that many people were not happy in the moment, and expressed it for many years about neither the Melo trade, nor the Melo NTC signing, so again, not no-brainer.
Barring MVPs, i don't give an NTC to any player, unless they're giving some huge concession in return, like a big discount.
No brainer for Kyrie, may be overstated given his injuries, but not because of his defensive deficiencies. I think its a move you make. But absolutely no NTC.

fishmike wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

fishmike wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Panos wrote:This clip of plays from just one game is flat out incredible. This isn't someone just hoisting up volume 3pt or long range shots. He's taking it to the rim hard and scoring with hands in his face. Let some of that rub off on KP! I think the pairing would be outstanding.

meloshouldgo wrote:

fishmike wrote:
But I guess now Kyrie is just a dumb scorer. Yea.. lets pass.

This is not Melo

Knicks are building a supporting cast of athletic smart guys. Fans dont want to add one of the leagues best scorers?

While some guys are talking if Kyrie makes sense the rest of us can watch him win game 7 by lighting up GS best defenders. Kyrie made Klay and Draymond look like Melo and Afflalo

I would like to add a scorer that's as committed to defense as he is to scoring. Would you say Kyrie is and elite or an above average defender?

Great, and it doesn't even address my question, much less answer it.

try asking a better question

So it's not ok to ask if he can play defense at a high level when considering him for the max contract?

That isnt what you are asking, so spare me... So its not ok to ask what imaginary players you would like to spend money on?

But yea... lets avoid signing chuckers like Kyrie so we can remain flexible to sign the guys you like who dont exist. Your position is clear.

Well, actually that is my position. You don't spend cap space just because u have it. I think staying flexible and waiting for the right type of player to hit the market us more prudent. I am very much focused on the long game.

martin wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

fishmike wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

fishmike wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Panos wrote:This clip of plays from just one game is flat out incredible. This isn't someone just hoisting up volume 3pt or long range shots. He's taking it to the rim hard and scoring with hands in his face. Let some of that rub off on KP! I think the pairing would be outstanding.

meloshouldgo wrote:

fishmike wrote:
But I guess now Kyrie is just a dumb scorer. Yea.. lets pass.

This is not Melo

Knicks are building a supporting cast of athletic smart guys. Fans dont want to add one of the leagues best scorers?

While some guys are talking if Kyrie makes sense the rest of us can watch him win game 7 by lighting up GS best defenders. Kyrie made Klay and Draymond look like Melo and Afflalo

I would like to add a scorer that's as committed to defense as he is to scoring. Would you say Kyrie is and elite or an above average defender?

Great, and it doesn't even address my question, much less answer it.

try asking a better question

So it's not ok to ask if he can play defense at a high level when considering him for the max contract?

That isnt what you are asking, so spare me... So its not ok to ask what imaginary players you would like to spend money on?

But yea... lets avoid signing chuckers like Kyrie so we can remain flexible to sign the guys you like who dont exist. Your position is clear.

Well, actually that is my position. You don't spend cap space just because u have it. I think staying flexible and waiting for the right type of player to hit the market us more prudent. I am very much focused on the long game.

Which players are you targeting for 2019, 2020, or 2021?

What I am preaching is flexibility and opportunism, it's the opposite of locking in on one or two players and then outbidding ourselves to make it happen. That last part is how the Knicks have operated for the last several years. If Kwahi becomes an FA or Klay can be traded for, I would definitely jump on it, but I would also make sure I am not overpaying. There's always going to be some "star player" wanting to move. I just want to get the ones that fit our proclaimed team philosophy.

Kyrie is a great player but has never played a full season in his 7 years in the league. He usually misses anywhere from 10-30 games:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html

Anyway, he's a nice player but not for the Knicks in their current state. He'd be good for a playoff team looking to go to the next level, but not for us, the opportunity cost in terms of developing our own guys and maintaining cap for a true 2 way superstar is too great.