newyorker4ever wrote:

reub wrote:

Welpee wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

Welpee wrote:Questions:

1) Can Kanter get a long term deal at over $18M from any other team.
2) Can the Knicks convince Kanter that they need to see another year from him under a new coach before committing long term?

I wouldn't give Kanter a long term deal right now before seeing him perform under Fizdale. If they have to let him walk, as much as a like Kanter, we have to do what we have to do. I understand Kanter's (and KOQ's) position but it's just not in the best interest of the Knicks right now.

1) Given the current marketplace, No.

My best guess is his current value/approximation is 4/32 or 2/16, the second year being a team option or a player option depending on the pathway to possibly starting.

2) I don't see this issue as relevant to his situation. Kanter is outside his prime developmental window. He's "young" in real life terms, in NBA terms, he's a sunk cost.

The issue isn't Kanter's continued development, rather his fit in whatever system Fizdale runs.

Kanter is going to opt in, rain threes and increase his market value. Wait and see.

You say that likes it's far fetched or something. He's obviously been putting in plenty of practice at shooting 3's which he's been posting all the videos of and is something Fiz lets and tells his big men do, although i do think there's a chance he opts out, i still don't see him doing it and it's a contract year so he's gonna kill it next year. I really don't care either way if he opts in or out cause it's not gonna hurt us next season either way.

Unfortunately, it is far fetched.

Shooting with no one guarding you in an open gym, when you are well rested, and not getting beat up all game, not having to travel on back to backs, not nursing some nagging in season injury/pain, that's a different story from NBA game speed. Even shooting in some light scrimmages or non NBA games are not the same thing.

Here's the other issue. To be effective as a three point shooter, you actually also need the skill set to move without the ball. You don't need to go Joe Dumars on anyone, but you need to at least be league average in that department. Kanter is low IQ black hole with the ball in his hands. What he does now is run towards the basket, get the ball, and never give it up, and attack the cup. That's it. Out on the perimeter, he actually has to read the defense enough to help himself find good shots. He'll also have to put the ball on the floor. He'll also have to pass the ball at times because not every look ends up a clean look at the basket from long range.

Jason Kidd wasn't a super horrible transition from a horrible shooter to an OK one. He had a good handle. He could move without the ball. He could read the floor. He could make the pass when needed. He knew when to shoot and when to pass. Kanter is just gonna chuck it. He's a black hole now, he'll be a black hole forever. You stage him on the perimeter, he's gonna just get it and chuck it. He's going to make Corey Maggette look like John Stockon.

He's outside his prime developmental window. There's no long term progression to indicate a league average three point shot is coming. It doesn't just flip like a light switch. It's a multiple season progression.

TripleThreat wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

reub wrote:

Welpee wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

Welpee wrote:Questions:

1) Can Kanter get a long term deal at over $18M from any other team.
2) Can the Knicks convince Kanter that they need to see another year from him under a new coach before committing long term?

I wouldn't give Kanter a long term deal right now before seeing him perform under Fizdale. If they have to let him walk, as much as a like Kanter, we have to do what we have to do. I understand Kanter's (and KOQ's) position but it's just not in the best interest of the Knicks right now.

1) Given the current marketplace, No.

My best guess is his current value/approximation is 4/32 or 2/16, the second year being a team option or a player option depending on the pathway to possibly starting.

2) I don't see this issue as relevant to his situation. Kanter is outside his prime developmental window. He's "young" in real life terms, in NBA terms, he's a sunk cost.

The issue isn't Kanter's continued development, rather his fit in whatever system Fizdale runs.

Kanter is going to opt in, rain threes and increase his market value. Wait and see.

You say that likes it's far fetched or something. He's obviously been putting in plenty of practice at shooting 3's which he's been posting all the videos of and is something Fiz lets and tells his big men do, although i do think there's a chance he opts out, i still don't see him doing it and it's a contract year so he's gonna kill it next year. I really don't care either way if he opts in or out cause it's not gonna hurt us next season either way.

Unfortunately, it is far fetched.

Shooting with no one guarding you in an open gym, when you are well rested, and not getting beat up all game, not having to travel on back to backs, not nursing some nagging in season injury/pain, that's a different story from NBA game speed. Even shooting in some light scrimmages or non NBA games are not the same thing.

Here's the other issue. To be effective as a three point shooter, you actually also need the skill set to move without the ball. You don't need to go Joe Dumars on anyone, but you need to at least be league average in that department. Kanter is low IQ black hole with the ball in his hands. What he does now is run towards the basket, get the ball, and never give it up, and attack the cup. That's it. Out on the perimeter, he actually has to read the defense enough to help himself find good shots. He'll also have to put the ball on the floor. He'll also have to pass the ball at times because not every look ends up a clean look at the basket from long range.

Jason Kidd wasn't a super horrible transition from a horrible shooter to an OK one. He had a good handle. He could move without the ball. He could read the floor. He could make the pass when needed. He knew when to shoot and when to pass. Kanter is just gonna chuck it. He's a black hole now, he'll be a black hole forever. You stage him on the perimeter, he's gonna just get it and chuck it. He's going to make Corey Maggette look like John Stockon.

He's outside his prime developmental window. There's no long term progression to indicate a league average three point shot is coming. It doesn't just flip like a light switch. It's a multiple season progression.

When you say "He's outside his prime developmental window. There's no long term progression to indicate a league average three point shot is coming. It doesn't just flip like a light switch. It's a multiple season progression." that is just totally wrong. You didn't check Fizdale's last 2 coaching positions and how he developed the big men.

Miami - Chris Bosh - taking less than 1 3pt shot a game and less than 30% to in his last 3 years took 2.8; 3.8; 4.2 3pt shots making 34%; 38%; 37%. Taking many more shots than earlier years and a big improvement in %age.

Memphis - Marc Gasol - an even bigger improvement. Went from taking .1 or .2 3pt shots per game with 16% made to 3.6 and 4.4 3pt shots per game. hitting 36%.

So where do you come up with Kanter can't change and learn a 3 pt shot. In practice he is already doing great. He will transition that into his game.

I don't understand the hate for Kanter by some people. He is not a rim protector but he is a monster inside. Scoring; rebounding. And a great teammate. See Frank vs LeBron. I definitely want him back. He's probably the best center, and definitely the toughest center we have had since.....yes since then.

martin wrote:

Vmart wrote:If Channing Fry can become a three point specialist I can’t see why Kanter wouldn’t be able to shoot threes. Kanter has a decent mid range game just needs to expand it. My only grip with Kanter is his defense is putrid.

False. Kanter has a nearly non-existant mid range game. Look it up: https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/k/kanteen01.html

Because you don’t see it often doesn’t mean he doesn’t have it. He just doesn’t use it as much as he probably can.

martin wrote:

Vmart wrote:

martin wrote:

Vmart wrote:If Channing Fry can become a three point specialist I can’t see why Kanter wouldn’t be able to shoot threes. Kanter has a decent mid range game just needs to expand it. My only grip with Kanter is his defense is putrid.

False. Kanter has a nearly non-existant mid range game. Look it up: https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/k/kanteen01.html

Because you don’t see it often doesn’t mean he doesn’t have it. He just doesn’t use it as much as he probably can.

Is that how it works these days? Just wish that maybe has something he doesn't and it'll appear? I just gave you a link to his raw stats, check out the Shooting table. Kanter barely shoots outside of 10 feet, and when he did, he didn't do it well.

He does have it you just saw him in highlights doing just what you said he didn’t have. There is no difference in taking chances on young players who have been under achieving or are busts and hoping that they can turn a corner.

I think Briggs had started a thread on Kanter and his mid range game a while back ago. He was wondering what happened to that outside shooting. I agree that Kanter tends to drive to the basket when a simple jumper would have sufficed but he was pretty good and shot a very good percentage.

When a player gets a green light to shoot threes it makes a difference in approach I can see Kanter knocking down 30-35% from three point land.

Vmart wrote:

martin wrote:

Vmart wrote:

martin wrote:

Vmart wrote:If Channing Fry can become a three point specialist I can’t see why Kanter wouldn’t be able to shoot threes. Kanter has a decent mid range game just needs to expand it. My only grip with Kanter is his defense is putrid.

False. Kanter has a nearly non-existant mid range game. Look it up: https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/k/kanteen01.html

Because you don’t see it often doesn’t mean he doesn’t have it. He just doesn’t use it as much as he probably can.

Is that how it works these days? Just wish that maybe has something he doesn't and it'll appear? I just gave you a link to his raw stats, check out the Shooting table. Kanter barely shoots outside of 10 feet, and when he did, he didn't do it well.

He does have it you just saw him in highlights doing just what you said he didn’t have. There is no difference in taking chances on young players who have been under achieving or are busts and hoping that they can turn a corner.

I think Briggs had started a thread on Kanter and his mid range game a while back ago. He was wondering what happened to that outside shooting. I agree that Kanter tends to drive to the basket when a simple jumper would have sufficed but he was pretty good and shot a very good percentage.

When a player gets a green light to shoot threes it makes a difference in approach I can see Kanter knocking down 30-35% from three point land.

You just made the argument that because there is a YouTube highlight of a player doing something, he "has" it.

Over the past 3 years Kanter has shot 25% from 3point land.

You still think he has a 3pt shot?

martin wrote:

Vmart wrote:

martin wrote:

Vmart wrote:

martin wrote:

Vmart wrote:If Channing Fry can become a three point specialist I can’t see why Kanter wouldn’t be able to shoot threes. Kanter has a decent mid range game just needs to expand it. My only grip with Kanter is his defense is putrid.

False. Kanter has a nearly non-existant mid range game. Look it up: https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/k/kanteen01.html

Because you don’t see it often doesn’t mean he doesn’t have it. He just doesn’t use it as much as he probably can.

Is that how it works these days? Just wish that maybe has something he doesn't and it'll appear? I just gave you a link to his raw stats, check out the Shooting table. Kanter barely shoots outside of 10 feet, and when he did, he didn't do it well.

He does have it you just saw him in highlights doing just what you said he didn’t have. There is no difference in taking chances on young players who have been under achieving or are busts and hoping that they can turn a corner.

I think Briggs had started a thread on Kanter and his mid range game a while back ago. He was wondering what happened to that outside shooting. I agree that Kanter tends to drive to the basket when a simple jumper would have sufficed but he was pretty good and shot a very good percentage.

When a player gets a green light to shoot threes it makes a difference in approach I can see Kanter knocking down 30-35% from three point land.

You just made the argument that because there is a YouTube highlight of a player doing something, he "has" it.

Over the past 3 years Kanter has shot 25% from 3point land.

You still think he has a 3pt shot?

You really don’t like to admit when your wrong. If it makes you feel better you’re right.

nykshaknbake wrote:If O Quinn and Kanter leave, it's fine. Without KP this is another tank year anyway. Let the kids play! Kornet, Robinson should get plenty of time and we are paying oah 18 mill anyway. He'll want to showcase himself for free agency, so it would seem to work out.

KP is schedule to play about 50 to 60 games, right around his average.

Kornet is a good player and Robinson will be a nba player. We are not going anywhere next year with KP out. Focus on the lottery and start doing homework now on which prospects to select with a top 5 pick.

Find out if KP is ready for the center position, and draft accordingly.

This year coming up should be all about playing the youth.

Starting line up should be

Frank
Dotson
Knox
Beasley one year deal
Kornet

Bench:
Burke,Mudiay
Thjr,Baker
Williams, Allonzo Trier,Lee
Hicks, two way
Robinson, one year player

Player to move for picks:
Lee

Let’s keep the eye on the prize top 5 pick

Next year could be starting line up
Kyrie
Frank
Knox
KP
Top 5 pick

But who knows I’m just excited to see how the youth develops.

fishmike wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Markji wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

reub wrote:

Welpee wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

Welpee wrote:Questions:

1) Can Kanter get a long term deal at over $18M from any other team.
2) Can the Knicks convince Kanter that they need to see another year from him under a new coach before committing long term?

I wouldn't give Kanter a long term deal right now before seeing him perform under Fizdale. If they have to let him walk, as much as a like Kanter, we have to do what we have to do. I understand Kanter's (and KOQ's) position but it's just not in the best interest of the Knicks right now.

1) Given the current marketplace, No.

My best guess is his current value/approximation is 4/32 or 2/16, the second year being a team option or a player option depending on the pathway to possibly starting.

2) I don't see this issue as relevant to his situation. Kanter is outside his prime developmental window. He's "young" in real life terms, in NBA terms, he's a sunk cost.

The issue isn't Kanter's continued development, rather his fit in whatever system Fizdale runs.

Kanter is going to opt in, rain threes and increase his market value. Wait and see.

You say that likes it's far fetched or something. He's obviously been putting in plenty of practice at shooting 3's which he's been posting all the videos of and is something Fiz lets and tells his big men do, although i do think there's a chance he opts out, i still don't see him doing it and it's a contract year so he's gonna kill it next year. I really don't care either way if he opts in or out cause it's not gonna hurt us next season either way.

Unfortunately, it is far fetched.

Shooting with no one guarding you in an open gym, when you are well rested, and not getting beat up all game, not having to travel on back to backs, not nursing some nagging in season injury/pain, that's a different story from NBA game speed. Even shooting in some light scrimmages or non NBA games are not the same thing.

Here's the other issue. To be effective as a three point shooter, you actually also need the skill set to move without the ball. You don't need to go Joe Dumars on anyone, but you need to at least be league average in that department. Kanter is low IQ black hole with the ball in his hands. What he does now is run towards the basket, get the ball, and never give it up, and attack the cup. That's it. Out on the perimeter, he actually has to read the defense enough to help himself find good shots. He'll also have to put the ball on the floor. He'll also have to pass the ball at times because not every look ends up a clean look at the basket from long range.

Jason Kidd wasn't a super horrible transition from a horrible shooter to an OK one. He had a good handle. He could move without the ball. He could read the floor. He could make the pass when needed. He knew when to shoot and when to pass. Kanter is just gonna chuck it. He's a black hole now, he'll be a black hole forever. You stage him on the perimeter, he's gonna just get it and chuck it. He's going to make Corey Maggette look like John Stockon.

He's outside his prime developmental window. There's no long term progression to indicate a league average three point shot is coming. It doesn't just flip like a light switch. It's a multiple season progression.

It might be good to check stats before jumping to conclusions.
Kanter took a total of only 2 shots all year from 3 pt last year because those were his instructions from the head coach. He followed the instructions. In past years he has taken a few more 3 pt shots with a big variance from 13% to 75% on .2 shots per game to .8 shots per game.

When you say "He's outside his prime developmental window. There's no long term progression to indicate a league average three point shot is coming. It doesn't just flip like a light switch. It's a multiple season progression." that is just totally wrong. You didn't check Fizdale's last 2 coaching positions and how he developed the big men.

Miami - Chris Bosh - taking less than 1 3pt shot a game and less than 30% to in his last 3 years took 2.8; 3.8; 4.2 3pt shots making 34%; 38%; 37%. Taking many more shots than earlier years and a big improvement in %age.

Memphis - Marc Gasol - an even bigger improvement. Went from taking .1 or .2 3pt shots per game with 16% made to 3.6 and 4.4 3pt shots per game. hitting 36%.

So where do you come up with Kanter can't change and learn a 3 pt shot. In practice he is already doing great. He will transition that into his game.

I don't understand the hate for Kanter by some people. He is not a rim protector but he is a monster inside. Scoring; rebounding. And a great teammate. See Frank vs LeBron. I definitely want him back. He's probably the best center, and definitely the toughest center we have had since.....yes since then.

And last year he wasn't as bad as advertised on the defensive end. No, he wasn't great but he wasn't as big a liability as a lot of us feared. Now I assume this is where somebody posts some advance stat that is suppose to the be final word on any argument in spite of what you actually witnessed on the court.

http://www.82games.com/1718/17NYK21.HTM
Look at KAnter's opposing FG%

Centers who play vs. Kanter light it up. Every night.

Kanter scores 27.8ppg with an EFG% of .593 per 48mins (thats good)
Opponents score 22.7 with an EFG% of .611 per 48mins (thats abysmal)

Effective FG% Allowed
54.0% (on court)
50.5% (off court)

Pretty much every metric, eye test, stat, game log, message forum and genie in a bottle all point to Kanter's defense being as horrible as advertised.

Guys like Greg Monroe have better opposing FG%s. Kanter's D is among the worst of any player getting minutes in the league

Check out his defensive numbers in the paint vs. the perimeter. Respectable in the paint, not so respectable on the perimeter.