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If Shareef wants out of Portland... how about this?
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Bonn1997
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9/8/2004  11:22 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Silverfuel:
Posted by crzymdups:

Question for you: Who is more likely to win in the playoffs? Reef or Sweetney? I'm not sure I know the answer...but I'll throw it to y'all...
I am a real Knick fan and also a big Basketball fan. I think, IN THE PLAYOFFS, Shareef would be a bigger winner than Sweetney just because I love the way he turns to the basket.

Even though he has his back to the basket in the post, its like this guy was built to play b.ball cause when he turns, he is really close to the hoop. This does not mean Sweetney wont become really good.
It's really just speculation. We don't know how good Sweetney will be. We at least have good idea of Shareef's strengths and weaknesses by now.

My point was that while Reef would absolutely be a huge upgrade over Kurt (which is pretty undeniable).

I don't know whether Reef is an upgrade over Sweets. Not sure. Sweets could be a much better rebounder and defender. COULD.

[Edited by - crzymdups on 09/08/2004 23:05:07]
He's a huge upgrade over Kurt on offense but an undeniable downgrade on defense. I guess it just comes to priorities. Overall, Shareef probably has a slightly better impact on the game, though. (Obviously, he has an awesome expiring contract too.)
AUTOADVERT
RonRon
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9/9/2004  12:40 AM
i dont think reaf is a great power forward in the league, but surely puts up the numbers. I would rather like to use these minutes and see where sweetney is at and also what he can become. I think we are missing a center and also a defensive/shot blocking pf as well on our roster.
technomaster
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9/9/2004  2:22 AM
Well, I think Shareef is clearly better than Kurt Thomas overall.

KT falls in the category of the Brian Grants, Horace Grants, and Dale Davis's of the NBA. Excellent banger... but nothing exceptional. Clearly a fine complementary player.

Shareef has franchise-type scoring ability. His moves draw fouls and he absolutely demands a lot of special consideration on defense. Last year he took 8 or more FTs 20 times; 6.8 ft/gm average for his career.

Rumor has it that he's a mediocre defender, but you tend to get over these things when you realize his offensive arsenal is exceptional.

The thing to focus on would be trading away Tim Thomas for him. Maybe we could send over KT, TT, and Shandon for SAR and some bad contracts. :)

“That was two, two from the heart.” - John Starks
Bonn1997
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9/9/2004  4:06 AM
If Shareef comes here, he will take minutes away from Sweetney. If he's only here for this season until the trade deadline when his expiring contract is traded, then that's no big deal. I guess Sweetney will still get his chance. Kurt can at least slight over to the center position to guard teams' backup centers, allowing Sweetney to play some time at PF while Kurt is on the floor. Could the Knicks do the same with Shareef? Can he guard teams' backup centers?
crzymdups
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9/9/2004  1:56 PM
I would much rather have Sweetney and Tim Thomas than Reef and Ruebn Patterson, which is probably all we could get from Portland.

Tim can score just as well as Reef, and again, scoring is not a need for this team, hustle and defense are the needs. I think a shotblocker is most needed. If we draft someone who turns into Dalembert (but remember, Dalembert took four years, even Camby took years to learn how to actually play D in this league and finish strong). Athletic five is what we lack, and it's one of the hardest things to find...
¿ △ ?
MaTT4281
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9/14/2004  9:19 PM
Portland president Steve Patterson confirmed to SportsLine.com Tuesday that the Blazers and the Nets are negotiating a deal which would send G Jason Kidd to Portland and F Shareef Abdur-Raheem in the opposite direction.

A different source reports that the Blazers have already began seeking a medical opinion on the knee fracture for which Kidd was operated on during the summer and which figures to have him out until December.

The surgery was successful, and Kidd has made it clear he would like to leave the Nets, who were sold to Bruce Ratner in the spring and have essentially purged their roster since then. Likewise, Abdur-Raheem is said to have seeked a trade, dissatisfied with playing behind Zach Randolph on the depth charts.

Shareef's $14.6 million contract will expire following the upcoming season, while Kidd signed a six year deal worth over $100 just last summer.

-via RealGM
Bonn1997
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9/14/2004  9:28 PM
That deal would give the Nets a starting lineup of

Collins
Abdur-Rahim
Jefferson
Mercer
Jacque Vaughan?

And a bench filled with CBA level players.

That team is a complete disaster. Only three of the fifteen players on their roster even belong in the NBA if this trade goes through. (I'll count Eric Williams as belonging in the NBA as a bench player.)
Marv
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9/14/2004  9:32 PM
Why do you pick up Kidd when you have Van Exel, Stoudamire and Telfair?
MaTT4281
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9/14/2004  9:43 PM
According to the article at sportsline, Portland may consider throwing in Telfair. If I was portland, that would be where I back off.
TMS
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9/14/2004  10:16 PM
Posted by Marv:

Why do you pick up Kidd when you have Van Exel, Stoudamire and Telfair?

because he's better than all 3? i'm sure they will be trading Stoudamire's expiring deal if they get this deal done for Kidd.
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Nalod
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9/14/2004  10:46 PM
This does make sense if they include Telfair, you'd be bringing him to brooklyn about the time he is legal age to drink. If the kid has upside, he will be reaching some maturity at the same time Kidd might be washed out.

They let Rahim go at seasons end.

The nets are toast in Jersey anyway, they will be cellar dwellers, save money and likely have some nice lotto picks in the next two years. Get a few studs, and rebuild with a young lotto team led by Marburys first cuz. They don't get along from what I have read.

Its interesting to say the least. Thorn is no dope. He has to save some cash, and its just a matter of time when kidds throws in the towel. If they can't draw with two trips to the finals, and a nice run last year, they can never do so. If they can get Mourning to play, they can also trade him and get his money off the books.

Nets can develope young picks, and have cap room. Knick reign in NYC for a few years.
Silverfuel
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9/15/2004  8:18 AM
Posted by Nalod:

Nets can develope young picks, and have cap room. Knick reign in NYC for a few years.
Knicks will always rule NYC. FOREVER!!
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
TMS
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9/15/2004  9:00 AM
a straight up Rahim for Kidd swap is stupid imo if i'm the Nets...i would want some draft picks out of the deal as well.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
fishmike
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9/15/2004  10:13 AM
Stupid for the Blazers... I'm not a big SAR fan but havent we learned anything about 30 year old players w/ knee injuries? Kidd has so many red flags right now. They traded away his favorite teammate, he's been (deservedly so) disgruntled about every offseason move the Nets have made and they dont even have a time table for Kidds return. To me thats the kicker. "Sometime in Dec" is a scary thing to hear about your franchise player with 5 years and $90mm left on his deal.

Maybe trading him for SAR is a panic move, but its one I would make. With no more Kmart Thorn himself said they arent competing for a title. either your moving forward or backward and right now they are clearly moving backward. Trading for SAR would give them the a piece they could turn into more picks and young players come Feb.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Bonn1997
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9/15/2004  11:01 AM
Posted by fishmike:

Stupid for the Blazers... I'm not a big SAR fan but havent we learned anything about 30 year old players w/ knee injuries? Kidd has so many red flags right now. They traded away his favorite teammate, he's been (deservedly so) disgruntled about every offseason move the Nets have made and they dont even have a time table for Kidds return. To me thats the kicker. "Sometime in Dec" is a scary thing to hear about your franchise player with 5 years and $90mm left on his deal.

Maybe trading him for SAR is a panic move, but its one I would make. With no more Kmart Thorn himself said they arent competing for a title. either your moving forward or backward and right now they are clearly moving backward. Trading for SAR would give them the a piece they could turn into more picks and young players come Feb.
I agree. Once I heard Kidd had microfracture surgery, I would have traded him for any decent player with an expiring contract plus one decent prospect (like Telfair) I could trade him for. I think the Blazers will really regret taking Kidd's contract.

TMS
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9/15/2004  12:26 PM
if you traded Jason Kidd for any decent player with an expiring contract plus one decent prospect (like Telfair), you would be tarred & feathered by the fans & it would go down in history as 1 of the worst trades in history next to some of the brilliant moves Scott Layden made as Knicks' GM.

no matter what logic you guys want to use, Jason Kidd has infinitely more trade value than just Shareef Abdur Rahim...if the Nets don't get back more than just Rahim in this deal, they are going to get blasted by their fans.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
fishmike
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9/15/2004  12:35 PM
really? Did you watch the playoffs? Kidd couldnt move. Are 31 year old players coming off knee surgury w/ no timetable to return and owed 90mm that valuable?

The Layden move would be to trade Kidd for SAR straight up then let the deadline expire and fail to resign SAR thus losing Kidd for nothing. Thorn isnt Layden. He will turn SAR into a package of prospects or picks that will yield real players.

I think we are talking about 2 different Jason Kidds here. your thinking of the one that vitalized the Nets franchise and brought b2b EC titles. I'm thinking of the one that had a major knee operation, is 31, is owed 90mm and has NO time table to return.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
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9/15/2004  12:59 PM
Ernie POESL/us... what's up?
Mike FLANAGA... if you could trade Kidd right now for Adur Rahim and Telfair would you do it
Mike FLANAGA... keep in mind Rahim's contract comes off the books end of season
Mike FLANAGA... where Kidd is owed 90mm and has no timetable to return from the knee injury
Ernie POESL/us... if thorn stayed on as gm then maybe, he has a good eye for talent
Ernie POESL/us... + we have 3 , #1's from philly, denver and LA clippers
Mike FLANAGA... I thought that as well... but I wanted to hear it from a Nets fan....

Ernie's a good guy I work with and a Net season ticket holder. Obviously its just one guy... there could be 100 others that feel otherwise. I think the only thing that stinks more than having to be patient while a team rebuilds is having to be patient because you cant rebuild because of one contract (Grant Hill). Kidd's a gamble now whether you keep him or trade him.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
TMS
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9/15/2004  1:33 PM
Posted by fishmike:

really? Did you watch the playoffs? Kidd couldnt move. Are 31 year old players coming off knee surgury w/ no timetable to return and owed 90mm that valuable?

The Layden move would be to trade Kidd for SAR straight up then let the deadline expire and fail to resign SAR thus losing Kidd for nothing. Thorn isnt Layden. He will turn SAR into a package of prospects or picks that will yield real players.

I think we are talking about 2 different Jason Kidds here. your thinking of the one that vitalized the Nets franchise and brought b2b EC titles. I'm thinking of the one that had a major knee operation, is 31, is owed 90mm and has NO time table to return.

yeah, i watched the playoffs...i watched Jason Kidd run rampant on the Knicks & lead his team to totally embarassing the Knicks on their home floor for 2 games & in New Jersey for the other 2...all this talk that Jason Kidd is done is ridiculous when none of you have even seen him play yet after his surgery...

is there a risk? of course there is...there was a risk when Scott Layden traded the #7 pick, Camby & Jax for McDyess & the #25 pick too...if i recall, you among others were in favor of that trade at the time because you believed the risk was worth taking...so why the sudden change of logic here? McDyess was coming off an entire year & a half of inactivity due to his surgically repaired knee...the prognosis on Jason Kidd's knee says he will be able to return by December according to some estimates...if you were OK with giving up a high lottery pick & Marcus Camby for a risk like McDyess, how can you turn around & say that a trade of Shareef Abdur Rahim for Jason Kidd would be dumb for the Blazers?
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fishmike
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9/15/2004  1:45 PM
I learned better?

I also (silly me) assumed Layden would do something about center. A lot of guys were potentially available. Instead all Scott did was bank everything on McDyess reviving the franchise.

I think they are very different situations. McDyess was 4 years younger and only had 2 years left on his deal. While it was a risk if it didnt work out you werent stuck long term with the consequences. While the Knicks sucked it up for the next year and a half his contract was instramental in getting us Marbury.

I'm not saying Kidd is done, but his game is a running game, he's 31 and if he's 80% of the player he was his contract is insane. 90mm is enough to strap a franchise for years. There's no saftey window for Kidd like there was McDyess, unless he retires.

As for the playoffs Frank Williams gave Kidd problems. I recall the problem in that series being KMart and Jefferson making Penny and KT look old slow and unathletic. Oh wait.. thats what they are

Would you risk building your team around Kidd? Port can I guess because of their $$$, but I dont see how the Nets can. This looks like too good and escape clause
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
If Shareef wants out of Portland... how about this?

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