arkrud wrote:

Welpee wrote:

arkrud wrote:

Welpee wrote:

arkrud wrote:

Welpee wrote:

arkrud wrote:

Welpee wrote:

arkrud wrote:

Welpee wrote:

arkrud wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Welpee wrote:

arkrud wrote:I do not believe in statistics. Numbers can be arranged as one with specific agenda want them to be arranged.
The size of the data we have is too small to make any mathematically correct conclusion.
My "faith based belief system" based on my experience and intuition which I value more that "rational thought process".

That is such a revealing admission. So numbers can be arranged to suit one's agenda, but "faith based belief systems," one's "experience" and "intuition" leads to a more rational thought process? Huh?

You can manipulate the subjective WAY easier than manipulating data and you're relieved of the burden of having to justifying it. Honestly it sounds more like a cop out for saying you want to believe what you want to believe in spite of reality.

My personal goal is to be happy not to be right or better that anybody.
That's why I do not understand why people harm themselves by hating on somebody or trying desperately to prove somebody wrong and himself right.
So I put in my arguments, share my experiences, and data I know.
I do not expect anybody to change their mind based on this.
But I have a hope that it can widen their view and will make them less hateful and more happy.

So in other words you'll never be open to differing view points or data/facts that contradict your views because you value only sharing your world view with others but have little interest whether it's based on anything tangible or factual. Basically you say "this is how i feel" then cover your ears and yell "I can't hear you" to any data/facts that challenge what you want to believe is true?

Not at all. I am very interested in what other people think.
Mostly because it tells me a lot about this people.
But I believe only what I see and feel happening.
I do not believe in any authorities and theoretical constructions.
It is just a product of the human mind which is flowed including my own.
The world cannot be understood by just using mind.
There are much more things inside us and around us that our senses cannot get and so our mind cannot adequately process.

So if a person shares their experience with you, since you didn't see it for yourself or personally experience it, in your world what they shared is dismissed and you don't treat it as reality?

You are nitpicking on trying to prove me wrong and I am wrong in many things.
So I think you are wasting your time and energy.
I am not some kind of Guru to give you some true knowledge but there are other who can.
Juts reed this and I hope it will help you to save your mind:

1) Friendliness: Be friendly with people who are happy. If you are not friendly with happy people, you will be jealous. This is because you think that your enemy is happy, and you cannot tolerate your enemy being happy. So, shake hands with happy people. Such an attitude does a lot of good to your mind.

2) Compassion: Do not be friendly with people who are miserable, instead, have compassion for them. If you are friendly with unhappy people you will become unhappy. And if you become unhappy, you can never help them to come out of their misery.

Many people have gotten into trouble by being friendly with unhappy people; both become miserable. It is like a doctor going to a patient who is sick, and the doctor also becomes sick. If the doctor also thinks, ‘How can I alone be healthy? Let me also share the patient’s misery’, then who will help the patient then?

So, what should be the attitude with people who are miserable? Compassion, not pity.

3) Happiness: For people who are doing good work or who are successful in the world, you should feel happy as though you are doing it.

For example, someone is a good singer, singing and bringing joy to everybody, seeing him you should think, ‘I feel so happy that this person is singing so well, and making everyone happy.’

If someone is a good entertainer and he entertains everybody you should feel happy about it. If someone is a great architect and builds beautiful buildings you should feel happy about it. Whenever someone does a good job, share that happiness with them; we need to have this attitude.

4) Indifference: For people who are doing horrible things in the society, destroying themselves, we usually get angry at them. When you are angry, your mind suffers a huge loss. You lose so much energy, you lose your mood, and your enthusiasm. When energy and enthusiasm goes away from you, you become angry and are no better than the other person. You do not know what you are doing. So, what should you do in such a situation? Have a sort of indifference in your mind.

For example, there are thieves in the world, they are there, what can you do about them? First accept, be indifferent. However, this does not mean you do not take any action. Your mind is indifferent (unaffected), but you act on it.

These are the four attitudes that will help us to save our mind. This is what we need to do, save our mind at all costs.

Shi Sri Ravi Shankar

http://www.wisdom.srisriravishankar.org/handle-your-own-mind/

...or you could just answer the question.

Hmmm... I do not dismiss other people experience but I cannot have bad feelings about it.
And I do not want to lie that I do.
I do have compassion to people who are unhappy but I do not getting sad or angry about what they experience.
How it will help them?

But here's my point based on what it sounds like you're saying (and it's not about proving you wrong, just food for thought): I don't know your race or ethnicity but for argument sake, lets assume your white. And as an African-American I tell you that I experience unfair treatment from the police. I get stopped and ticketed unjustly, I get harassed for no reason and I am able to present to you research and data that backs up my claims.

It sounds like your reaction would be since it's not something you personally experienced and perhaps you may not have a ton of African-Americans in your life who can share their own first hand accounts of similar experiences (or perhaps you live in an area with few African-Americans period) and because your belief system says to trust the police and always give them the benefit of the doubt, you'll dismiss my reality and not consider it valid.

That's what I'm trying to get some clarity about. Again, everything I said above is hypothetical and I don't know anything about you personally. It's just an example to illustrate the point I'm trying to make.

I absolutely believe that this unjust profiling is happening.
I do understand that it is a result of slavery/segregation/anti-black policy of US government and every-day racism associated with it which created disproportional poverty and crime among AA population.
This situation in turn affected the police and courts operation practices.
I have a compassionate feelings to innocent victims of this social settings but again I am not sad or angry about it because even if I understand it cannot relate to it.
Because of this level headed take of the issue I think that we need to continue to build public awareness and trust. And I think the situation is getting much better last 30 or so years.
Retaliation, hate, and rage will only exaggerate the issues instead of resolving them.
There are many bad cops and many bad criminals, white and black.
And we should carefully navigate the situation to put blame only where it belongs.

I guess that's where we differ. Even though I'm not Latino I still have emotions about some of the things targeted at that community. Same with gay/lesbians. For me I don't need to be one of them to have strong feels towards their plight.

Compassion is a strong feeling.
As soon as you are not angry or hateful against people or circumstances which make them suffer we are at the same page.
Anger and hate makes us weak and impotent and compassion makes us strong.

And before this thought gets into anyone's mind, non-violence doesn't mean not being angry.

Welpee wrote:

arkrud wrote:

Welpee wrote:

arkrud wrote:

Welpee wrote:

arkrud wrote:

Welpee wrote:

arkrud wrote:

Welpee wrote:

arkrud wrote:

Welpee wrote:

arkrud wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Welpee wrote:

arkrud wrote:I do not believe in statistics. Numbers can be arranged as one with specific agenda want them to be arranged.
The size of the data we have is too small to make any mathematically correct conclusion.
My "faith based belief system" based on my experience and intuition which I value more that "rational thought process".

That is such a revealing admission. So numbers can be arranged to suit one's agenda, but "faith based belief systems," one's "experience" and "intuition" leads to a more rational thought process? Huh?

You can manipulate the subjective WAY easier than manipulating data and you're relieved of the burden of having to justifying it. Honestly it sounds more like a cop out for saying you want to believe what you want to believe in spite of reality.

My personal goal is to be happy not to be right or better that anybody.
That's why I do not understand why people harm themselves by hating on somebody or trying desperately to prove somebody wrong and himself right.
So I put in my arguments, share my experiences, and data I know.
I do not expect anybody to change their mind based on this.
But I have a hope that it can widen their view and will make them less hateful and more happy.

So in other words you'll never be open to differing view points or data/facts that contradict your views because you value only sharing your world view with others but have little interest whether it's based on anything tangible or factual. Basically you say "this is how i feel" then cover your ears and yell "I can't hear you" to any data/facts that challenge what you want to believe is true?

Not at all. I am very interested in what other people think.
Mostly because it tells me a lot about this people.
But I believe only what I see and feel happening.
I do not believe in any authorities and theoretical constructions.
It is just a product of the human mind which is flowed including my own.
The world cannot be understood by just using mind.
There are much more things inside us and around us that our senses cannot get and so our mind cannot adequately process.

So if a person shares their experience with you, since you didn't see it for yourself or personally experience it, in your world what they shared is dismissed and you don't treat it as reality?

You are nitpicking on trying to prove me wrong and I am wrong in many things.
So I think you are wasting your time and energy.
I am not some kind of Guru to give you some true knowledge but there are other who can.
Juts reed this and I hope it will help you to save your mind:

1) Friendliness: Be friendly with people who are happy. If you are not friendly with happy people, you will be jealous. This is because you think that your enemy is happy, and you cannot tolerate your enemy being happy. So, shake hands with happy people. Such an attitude does a lot of good to your mind.

2) Compassion: Do not be friendly with people who are miserable, instead, have compassion for them. If you are friendly with unhappy people you will become unhappy. And if you become unhappy, you can never help them to come out of their misery.

Many people have gotten into trouble by being friendly with unhappy people; both become miserable. It is like a doctor going to a patient who is sick, and the doctor also becomes sick. If the doctor also thinks, ‘How can I alone be healthy? Let me also share the patient’s misery’, then who will help the patient then?

So, what should be the attitude with people who are miserable? Compassion, not pity.

3) Happiness: For people who are doing good work or who are successful in the world, you should feel happy as though you are doing it.

For example, someone is a good singer, singing and bringing joy to everybody, seeing him you should think, ‘I feel so happy that this person is singing so well, and making everyone happy.’

If someone is a good entertainer and he entertains everybody you should feel happy about it. If someone is a great architect and builds beautiful buildings you should feel happy about it. Whenever someone does a good job, share that happiness with them; we need to have this attitude.

4) Indifference: For people who are doing horrible things in the society, destroying themselves, we usually get angry at them. When you are angry, your mind suffers a huge loss. You lose so much energy, you lose your mood, and your enthusiasm. When energy and enthusiasm goes away from you, you become angry and are no better than the other person. You do not know what you are doing. So, what should you do in such a situation? Have a sort of indifference in your mind.

For example, there are thieves in the world, they are there, what can you do about them? First accept, be indifferent. However, this does not mean you do not take any action. Your mind is indifferent (unaffected), but you act on it.

These are the four attitudes that will help us to save our mind. This is what we need to do, save our mind at all costs.

Shi Sri Ravi Shankar

http://www.wisdom.srisriravishankar.org/handle-your-own-mind/

...or you could just answer the question.

Hmmm... I do not dismiss other people experience but I cannot have bad feelings about it.
And I do not want to lie that I do.
I do have compassion to people who are unhappy but I do not getting sad or angry about what they experience.
How it will help them?

But here's my point based on what it sounds like you're saying (and it's not about proving you wrong, just food for thought): I don't know your race or ethnicity but for argument sake, lets assume your white. And as an African-American I tell you that I experience unfair treatment from the police. I get stopped and ticketed unjustly, I get harassed for no reason and I am able to present to you research and data that backs up my claims.

It sounds like your reaction would be since it's not something you personally experienced and perhaps you may not have a ton of African-Americans in your life who can share their own first hand accounts of similar experiences (or perhaps you live in an area with few African-Americans period) and because your belief system says to trust the police and always give them the benefit of the doubt, you'll dismiss my reality and not consider it valid.

That's what I'm trying to get some clarity about. Again, everything I said above is hypothetical and I don't know anything about you personally. It's just an example to illustrate the point I'm trying to make.

I absolutely believe that this unjust profiling is happening.
I do understand that it is a result of slavery/segregation/anti-black policy of US government and every-day racism associated with it which created disproportional poverty and crime among AA population.
This situation in turn affected the police and courts operation practices.
I have a compassionate feelings to innocent victims of this social settings but again I am not sad or angry about it because even if I understand it cannot relate to it.
Because of this level headed take of the issue I think that we need to continue to build public awareness and trust. And I think the situation is getting much better last 30 or so years.
Retaliation, hate, and rage will only exaggerate the issues instead of resolving them.
There are many bad cops and many bad criminals, white and black.
And we should carefully navigate the situation to put blame only where it belongs.

I guess that's where we differ. Even though I'm not Latino I still have emotions about some of the things targeted at that community. Same with gay/lesbians. For me I don't need to be one of them to have strong feels towards their plight.

Compassion is a strong feeling.
As soon as you are not angry or hateful against people or circumstances which make them suffer we are at the same page.
Anger and hate makes us weak and impotent and compassion makes us strong.

I agree with hate, don't agree regarding anger. If it weren't for people expressing their anger who knows how much longer it would've taken the government to finally address civil rights. It's easy to preach not being angry when you're not the one riding the back of the bus.

And before this thought gets into anyone's mind, non-violence doesn't mean not being angry.

As soon as you are not act in anger it is fine too.
It takes special tools to control your anger and limit the negative impact.
Not many people unfortunately equipped with this tools.
This keep the endless cycle of violence and hate going.
People get angry because of unfair treatment by government and some bad people, keep that anger and grow it, and then unleash it on innocent people by association.
The victims of this uncalled assault get angry and this keeps rolling.