GustavBahler wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

ekstarks94 wrote:Anybody with a talent for business can move into different roles/industries....you hire the subject matter experts under you.....but you have to cultivate the vision....you trust your staff under you with the details and you map out the broad strokes and stay on top of execution. As a finance exec for the past 20 yrs in multiple industries I know having the right resources to allow you to make "competent" decisions is key.

The way everyone is talking is that Mills is the talent eval guy/capologist/trade maker/etc. Mlls is a business guy..a corporate guy.....and when you reach a certain level and there are "shake ups" and you survive...you may have a new title and role....but the org respects what you bring to the table because they know you can get things done...I see nothing wrong in having veto power or final say on things from Mills perspective...what I do see as an issue is keeping the holdovers...but MSG is corporate and the decision maker reserves the right to keep "their" guys...If you know this going in you make the decision...accept that situation and the culture or pass...Griff took a pass.

MSG is not your normal franchise.....corporate owned is very different....than a GS state that has investors...or DAL, LAC, MEM...that have billionaire owners....Dolan is an deep pocket exec that is sitting on a damn cash register...and one thing is that he is loyal....you do not find that in todays corporate world...

The Knicks have at least two former GMs working for them and a bunch of talent evaluators...Yes the results have been miserable....but in the Phil era it was forcing the triangle with your best player calling BS on this...prior to Phil....outside of the 50+ win season Melo and Stat(aside from the injuries) did not have the right point guard...if CP3 came had they not signed Tyson and Amare not hit with injuries you would have a different team....I know would of coulda shoulda but....F-it...had it occurred it would be different ...just like SA and the T. Duncan draft after Boston hired Pitino and was all waiting the Tim to fall into their lap and they got Fcked

The moves that the Knicks made did not pan out....

Also it not all about tanking.....everyone wants to tank.....a pick does not mean Shizzzt unless you make the right pick.....also we already have a player that teams tank for years in a row to get with KP...we have that first piece and you build from there....and try to win and develop along the way

People need to recognize Mills for what he is which is an upper echelon exec that survived hos boss's ouster and now he is getting his shot .....again....does he deserve the position...debatable....but he is not making decisions in a vacuum. The only thing THjr signing revealed to me that it was Phil that wanted to trade him and that the "deep state" at MSG thought and still think he was a talent. Time will tell if they were right.

Great Post!!! Never gave much thought to the bolded...Thanks for pointing that out...

Yeah, it's a night and day difference. Cablevision has shareholders they have to answer to immediately. So I don't think we'll ever see the team tank from the beginning of the season. I think they'll always try to make the playoffs. It would definitely be better to just have a billionaire investor who loved the Knicks own the team.

Dolan owns controlling interest in MSG. He doesn't answer to anyone. If he were really worried about a shareholder revolt, the Knicks wouldnt be such a mess, he would have cleaned house a long time ago.

The only thing Dolan is worried about is having his name dragged across the headlines, not the board of directors.

Dolan is just another billionaire owner like the others, except winning isnt all that important to him, just profits. Most billionaire owners take more pride in their team.

Cablevision is no longer shareholder owned publicly traded company, it was acquired by Altice in 2016. It's now part of a privately held company and Dolan doesn't control it.

Madison Square Garden company was carved out of cablevision before the sale and is still majority owned by Dolan and is a publicly traded company (Stock ticker MSG). The company doesn't own the MSG tv channel anymore that was spun into a different company. Instead in 2016 MSG company acquired a different cable tv company.

Tell me something I dont know. I said Dolan owns controlling interest in MSG, not Cablevision.

As the David Griffin flirtation demonstrated, the Knicks already have their successor to former president Phil Jackson.

According to sources debriefed on their front-office search, owner James Dolan is moving forward with a plan that has Steve Mills remaining as the permanent president. No negotiations have taken place yet between the Knicks and Mills.

However, subsequent interviews will be done to find a No. 2 man under Mills, who will be part of the process from here on. Just as Jackson did, Mills is expected to have final say on personnel matters. It’s the same role Mills had when he was hired to replace Glen Grunwald as president before the 2013-14 season.

EwingsGlass wrote:The Hardaway signing makes so little sense, I am inclined to say that Hardaway's agent is giving somebody a piece on the back end. Literally no bargaining position. No other clients of note (Mason Plumlee excluded of course). There is no reason for a 15% trade kicker based on bargaining position. Even poison pill logic on the restricted nature of THJ's free agency doesn't validate a 15% kicker. Only logic is more commission if paid.

http://basketball.realgm.com/info/agent-client-list/Zach-Kurtin/690

It makes no sense. I have no logic to explain this contract, even days later I am baffled. If I were the league, I would be looking at this very closely. Somebody

I'm done with Mills.

Dont mistaken this for being pro-Mills or even pro-Hardaway. I am neither, but the signing was not terrible. As for Mills what is his directive? Its its build a young team than fine. Whats the issue? When we are winning 30ish games and trading picks because the front office is telling fans we are one player away then yea... may the tar and feathering begin. This is the Knicks using the cap space from Rose, and older oft injured player to bring in a 24 year old up and coming player in the fold. Lets see what follows.

EwingsGlass wrote:The Hardaway signing makes so little sense, I am inclined to say that Hardaway's agent is giving somebody a piece on the back end. Literally no bargaining position. No other clients of note (Mason Plumlee excluded of course). There is no reason for a 15% trade kicker based on bargaining position. Even poison pill logic on the restricted nature of THJ's free agency doesn't validate a 15% kicker. Only logic is more commission if paid.

http://basketball.realgm.com/info/agent-client-list/Zach-Kurtin/690

It makes no sense. I have no logic to explain this contract, even days later I am baffled. If I were the league, I would be looking at this very closely. Somebody

I'm done with Mills.

Agree, not a lot about this deal makes any sense.

Unlike say the Yankees, where there was some real work that Cashman had to do to get the proper role players to fit in with the set seven guys (Jeter, Williams, Posada, Pettitte, O'Neil, Martinez, and Mariano) and even replacing a few of these guys, the new Knicks GM is being told what players there are on the team and that the team needs to be successful...despite not having been for almost two decades. And this is with be given no opportunity to make any decisions. It's basically a position the Knicks don't need...it all falls under the purview of President Mills.

Any new GM has no voice in what to do with Melo at this point. Say Griffin came in and he and Jeff saw the current roster as a great team WITH Anthony, Mills is not going to change his mind UNLESS Dolan changes his mind. I can't imagine why anyone would want the job...who the hell would want to work for Dolan. Despite the money I still can't figure out why Jackson took the job.

grillco wrote:I don't think there was ever a question in the front office regarding Mills and the team presidency. You can't be trying to hire a GM and then go after THJ for a sum that no other team was even close to considering AND make any candidate for GM believe that they will have any say in the team. It's really a figurehead position.

Unlike say the Yankees, where there was some real work that Cashman had to do to get the proper role players to fit in with the set seven guys (Jeter, Williams, Posada, Pettitte, O'Neil, Martinez, and Mariano) and even replacing a few of these guys, the new Knicks GM is being told what players there are on the team and that the team needs to be successful...despite not having been for almost two decades. And this is with be given no opportunity to make any decisions. It's basically a position the Knicks don't need...it all falls under the purview of President Mills.

Any new GM has no voice in what to do with Melo at this point. Say Griffin came in and he and Jeff saw the current roster as a great team WITH Anthony, Mills is not going to change his mind UNLESS Dolan changes his mind. I can't imagine why anyone would want the job...who the hell would want to work for Dolan. Despite the money I still can't figure out why Jackson took the job.

General Manager is a figurehead position on the Knicks, more successful franchises take a different approach.

grillco wrote:I don't think there was ever a question in the front office regarding Mills and the team presidency. You can't be trying to hire a GM and then go after THJ for a sum that no other team was even close to considering AND make any candidate for GM believe that they will have any say in the team. It's really a figurehead position.

Unlike say the Yankees, where there was some real work that Cashman had to do to get the proper role players to fit in with the set seven guys (Jeter, Williams, Posada, Pettitte, O'Neil, Martinez, and Mariano) and even replacing a few of these guys, the new Knicks GM is being told what players there are on the team and that the team needs to be successful...despite not having been for almost two decades. And this is with be given no opportunity to make any decisions. It's basically a position the Knicks don't need...it all falls under the purview of President Mills.

Any new GM has no voice in what to do with Melo at this point. Say Griffin came in and he and Jeff saw the current roster as a great team WITH Anthony, Mills is not going to change his mind UNLESS Dolan changes his mind. I can't imagine why anyone would want the job...who the hell would want to work for Dolan. Despite the money I still can't figure out why Jackson took the job.

Kemet wrote:What do i know bout Steve Mills ....

Steve Mills helped Dolan when Dolan Fired Ernie Grunfield in midseason 1999.
Mills refuse to draft Ron Artest for a guy name Weiss .. Mills gave Allan Houston $100M contract.
Mills helped out in the Ewing Trade.
Mills has been Dolan's advisor on hiring General Managers since Scott Layden to Phil Jackson.

Steve Mills’ decade-long career at The Madison Square Garden Company included his role as president of MSG Sports, during which he oversaw all business operations, including marketing and community relations, for the company’s three professional sports teams and Sports Properties, which included college basketball, boxing, and track and field. Steve originally joined the Knicks as executive vice president of franchise operations in September 1999 and became president of sports teams operations for Madison Square Garden in 2001.

So you saying Mills got pictures of little jimmy?

ekstarks94 wrote:

Kemet wrote:
Mills refuse to draft Ron Artest for a guy name Weiss ..

This was not Mills that did the Weis pick...it was Grunfeld's asst GM that screwed us on the way out....look it up

Mills was the vice president of operation .. Steve originally joined the Knicks as executive vice president of franchise operations in September 1999 and became president of sports teams operations for Madison Square Garden in 2001.

ekstarks94 wrote:

Kemet wrote:

ekstarks94 wrote:

Kemet wrote:
Mills refuse to draft Ron Artest for a guy name Weiss ..

This was not Mills that did the Weis pick...it was Grunfeld's asst GM that screwed us on the way out....look it up

Mills was the vice president of operation .. Steve originally joined the Knicks as executive vice president of franchise operations in September 1999 and became president of sports teams operations for Madison Square Garden in 2001.

But Mills did not make the call on the pick...that was Grunfeld's guy....did he have the veto power..dunno....was he even in on the basketball side....to be honest I do not remeber hearing his name until after Layden was going out the door and he brought in Isiah.

Gunfield had intention on selecting St. Johns Ron Artest in the upcoming draft .. to put with Sprewell and resign Houston to a reasonable contract.