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This is turning into the worst off season ever for the knicks
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fishmike
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7/6/2017  9:35 AM
smackeddog wrote:Worst off season ever? Think that one where we landed Shandon Anderson and Howard Eisley's contracts were infinitely worse! The one where we traded ewing for cap hell was pretty brutal too. Oh and the one where we traded Cambuslang and a are stoudamire in their primes for McDyess. And the one where we traded 2 unprotected firsts (turned into Noah and Aldridge) for eddy curry and signed Jerome James to the max MLE
So far this is a great offseason. No long deals for players who arent moving the needle. Setting up for long looks at young players. We have some vets that will play valuable roles (defense) if they stay in Lee, Noah and possibly KOQ. We can see what KP looks like as the primary scorer. We can see how Baker looks in a free offense with Hornecek to put what he wants in place. We can see if Kuz takes a step forward, or if Dotson or another young guy steps forward and turns into a player. We can keep cap space and use it to add assets when some team gets desperate and we should have a great pick next year and a very flexible roster.

So far Knicks are doing everything a smart franchise would do.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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Uptown
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7/6/2017  9:56 AM
Would have liked to see us get secure a few young players who may be on the verge of a break out but they either weren't given an opportunity or are a cap casualty like Ben McLemore of Michael Carter Williams.

There are several players I've seen in summer league that have looked good enough to earn a spot on our training camp roster if they are signed by their respective teams:

Cat Barber & Pierre Jackson to name a few. These are the type of players Knicks should be looking at.

knicks1248
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7/6/2017  9:59 AM
mlby1215 wrote:I think Lee is more or less a victim. Noah called him and he believed it then came. At the moment I hope he can go to a contender and they give us some picks in return.

CrushAlot wrote:
mlby1215 wrote:If they really want to tank, they should have already traded Lee.

Knicks wants to win but no FA wants to sign here because they don't like here and/or they have no confidence.

Tanking teams would keep a solid player, such as Holiday, in a cheap contract then later trade him to his another brother Jrue, for example.

Indeed, tanking is good for Knicks but it is bad for Mills. It will be on his record as GM. One day people would use something like "LOL, this Mills went 80-166 too!! He sucked!" to against him. So why would he want to care about the long-term benefit of Knicks? He has no reason to do that.

I think they are trying to trade Lee. The urgency for that may have lessened with Holiday leaving. I don't think they were chasing free agents this year. Reports are they are telling agents that they want young guys willing to sign short deals.

Veterans like rasheed, kidd and camby sign short deals (and that's only for contenders, not baby sitting).

why would a young guy sign a short deal as if he's made all his millions already and his financial future is set, that's why every one is blowing mills off

Only young player signing a cheap short deal are UDFA and D leaguers, any dope knows that.

ES
Bonn1997
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7/6/2017  10:54 AM
fishmike wrote:
smackeddog wrote:Worst off season ever? Think that one where we landed Shandon Anderson and Howard Eisley's contracts were infinitely worse! The one where we traded ewing for cap hell was pretty brutal too. Oh and the one where we traded Cambuslang and a are stoudamire in their primes for McDyess. And the one where we traded 2 unprotected firsts (turned into Noah and Aldridge) for eddy curry and signed Jerome James to the max MLE
So far this is a great offseason. No long deals for players who arent moving the needle. Setting up for long looks at young players. We have some vets that will play valuable roles (defense) if they stay in Lee, Noah and possibly KOQ. We can see what KP looks like as the primary scorer. We can see how Baker looks in a free offense with Hornecek to put what he wants in place. We can see if Kuz takes a step forward, or if Dotson or another young guy steps forward and turns into a player. We can keep cap space and use it to add assets when some team gets desperate and we should have a great pick next year and a very flexible roster.

So far Knicks are doing everything a smart franchise would do.


Let's not set the bar that low. The grade closer to NA than being either a good or a bad grade.
Bonn1997
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7/6/2017  10:55 AM
knicks1248 wrote:
mlby1215 wrote:I think Lee is more or less a victim. Noah called him and he believed it then came. At the moment I hope he can go to a contender and they give us some picks in return.

CrushAlot wrote:
mlby1215 wrote:If they really want to tank, they should have already traded Lee.

Knicks wants to win but no FA wants to sign here because they don't like here and/or they have no confidence.

Tanking teams would keep a solid player, such as Holiday, in a cheap contract then later trade him to his another brother Jrue, for example.

Indeed, tanking is good for Knicks but it is bad for Mills. It will be on his record as GM. One day people would use something like "LOL, this Mills went 80-166 too!! He sucked!" to against him. So why would he want to care about the long-term benefit of Knicks? He has no reason to do that.

I think they are trying to trade Lee. The urgency for that may have lessened with Holiday leaving. I don't think they were chasing free agents this year. Reports are they are telling agents that they want young guys willing to sign short deals.

Veterans like rasheed, kidd and camby sign short deals (and that's only for contenders, not baby sitting).

why would a young guy sign a short deal as if he's made all his millions already and his financial future is set, that's why every one is blowing mills off

Only young player signing a cheap short deal are UDFA and D leaguers, any dope knows that.


That's still not a justification for starphucking. It's just a reminder that we need to be patient.
Nalod
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7/6/2017  11:04 AM
knicks1248 wrote:
mlby1215 wrote:I think Lee is more or less a victim. Noah called him and he believed it then came. At the moment I hope he can go to a contender and they give us some picks in return.

CrushAlot wrote:
mlby1215 wrote:If they really want to tank, they should have already traded Lee.

Knicks wants to win but no FA wants to sign here because they don't like here and/or they have no confidence.

Tanking teams would keep a solid player, such as Holiday, in a cheap contract then later trade him to his another brother Jrue, for example.

Indeed, tanking is good for Knicks but it is bad for Mills. It will be on his record as GM. One day people would use something like "LOL, this Mills went 80-166 too!! He sucked!" to against him. So why would he want to care about the long-term benefit of Knicks? He has no reason to do that.

I think they are trying to trade Lee. The urgency for that may have lessened with Holiday leaving. I don't think they were chasing free agents this year. Reports are they are telling agents that they want young guys willing to sign short deals.

Veterans like rasheed, kidd and camby sign short deals (and that's only for contenders, not baby sitting).

why would a young guy sign a short deal as if he's made all his millions already and his financial future is set, that's why every one is blowing mills off

Only young player signing a cheap short deal are UDFA and D leaguers, any dope knows that.

Derrick Williams, brandon Jennings, Affalo...........also there was more cap money available this year, or next.......

Good players who had something to prove as they were not getting great long term deals and believed they were worth more.

The players that "Rejected" the knicks went to teams more established and they got good long term deals. If the knicks reached out does not mean they tendered an offer, but likley wanted to see what they were looking for. In your "aw shucks, this is the worst year ever" its also upon us that we are not filling in needs but still growing an asset base. Grow your own, you can make trades. You also let players go, like holiday.
Good kid, but we still have 15mil left to spend, and it does not mean we spend it.

Teams with mulitiple picks TRADED AWAY PLAYERS FOR PICKS........When phil got here the cupboard was not full. JR and Shump, two starters were worth beans in the open market. Same for Tyson.
We tried with Larken, Clearanthony (shot) and some others but we did not hit a good up side cheap player. But we began a process. We got Willy!!!!! We could trade Willy for a player and a future first round pick.
Baker if he turns into a hornacek type player will have value on the court and as an asset.
This takes time. MIlls should continue this.
Too bad we could not move Rose for something last year, and perhaps we can get something in return for melo.

Yes, the 25mil big question. If we can move him via trade and not bring back much in salary our ability to absorb free agents or trades, in addition to KP, WIlly and hopefull Frank is the future.

You have to see that. Its not today, its a core process build out. And thank PHil for all his madness that he didn't starphuch that future.
If mills wants to continue that, great!!!

fishmike
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7/6/2017  11:19 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
smackeddog wrote:Worst off season ever? Think that one where we landed Shandon Anderson and Howard Eisley's contracts were infinitely worse! The one where we traded ewing for cap hell was pretty brutal too. Oh and the one where we traded Cambuslang and a are stoudamire in their primes for McDyess. And the one where we traded 2 unprotected firsts (turned into Noah and Aldridge) for eddy curry and signed Jerome James to the max MLE
So far this is a great offseason. No long deals for players who arent moving the needle. Setting up for long looks at young players. We have some vets that will play valuable roles (defense) if they stay in Lee, Noah and possibly KOQ. We can see what KP looks like as the primary scorer. We can see how Baker looks in a free offense with Hornecek to put what he wants in place. We can see if Kuz takes a step forward, or if Dotson or another young guy steps forward and turns into a player. We can keep cap space and use it to add assets when some team gets desperate and we should have a great pick next year and a very flexible roster.

So far Knicks are doing everything a smart franchise would do.


Let's not set the bar that low. The grade closer to NA than being either a good or a bad grade.
how is the bar low? I think so far this is sound. I have not seen much go down I really wish the Knicks were apart of. Doing nothing is the best move. Focus on the developing the talent here. Also there a pending Melo trade (most likely) and everything changes after that. NA is fine. Beats an F
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Bonn1997
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7/6/2017  11:27 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/6/2017  11:28 AM
fishmike wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
smackeddog wrote:Worst off season ever? Think that one where we landed Shandon Anderson and Howard Eisley's contracts were infinitely worse! The one where we traded ewing for cap hell was pretty brutal too. Oh and the one where we traded Cambuslang and a are stoudamire in their primes for McDyess. And the one where we traded 2 unprotected firsts (turned into Noah and Aldridge) for eddy curry and signed Jerome James to the max MLE
So far this is a great offseason. No long deals for players who arent moving the needle. Setting up for long looks at young players. We have some vets that will play valuable roles (defense) if they stay in Lee, Noah and possibly KOQ. We can see what KP looks like as the primary scorer. We can see how Baker looks in a free offense with Hornecek to put what he wants in place. We can see if Kuz takes a step forward, or if Dotson or another young guy steps forward and turns into a player. We can keep cap space and use it to add assets when some team gets desperate and we should have a great pick next year and a very flexible roster.

So far Knicks are doing everything a smart franchise would do.


Let's not set the bar that low. The grade closer to NA than being either a good or a bad grade.
how is the bar low? I think so far this is sound. I have not seen much go down I really wish the Knicks were apart of. Doing nothing is the best move. Focus on the developing the talent here. Also there a pending Melo trade (most likely) and everything changes after that. NA is fine. Beats an F

OK but you don't get an A for doing nothing. A robot could do nothing. That's why the grade is incomplete or not applicable. Yes, that is better than an F though. I could say I'm slightly, cautiously optimistic. We don't really know anything about the mindset or philosophy the team will have once they do start making decisions.
fishmike
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7/6/2017  11:30 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
smackeddog wrote:Worst off season ever? Think that one where we landed Shandon Anderson and Howard Eisley's contracts were infinitely worse! The one where we traded ewing for cap hell was pretty brutal too. Oh and the one where we traded Cambuslang and a are stoudamire in their primes for McDyess. And the one where we traded 2 unprotected firsts (turned into Noah and Aldridge) for eddy curry and signed Jerome James to the max MLE
So far this is a great offseason. No long deals for players who arent moving the needle. Setting up for long looks at young players. We have some vets that will play valuable roles (defense) if they stay in Lee, Noah and possibly KOQ. We can see what KP looks like as the primary scorer. We can see how Baker looks in a free offense with Hornecek to put what he wants in place. We can see if Kuz takes a step forward, or if Dotson or another young guy steps forward and turns into a player. We can keep cap space and use it to add assets when some team gets desperate and we should have a great pick next year and a very flexible roster.

So far Knicks are doing everything a smart franchise would do.


Let's not set the bar that low. The grade closer to NA than being either a good or a bad grade.
how is the bar low? I think so far this is sound. I have not seen much go down I really wish the Knicks were apart of. Doing nothing is the best move. Focus on the developing the talent here. Also there a pending Melo trade (most likely) and everything changes after that. NA is fine. Beats an F

OK but you don't get an A for doing nothing. A robot could do nothing. That's why the grade is incomplete or not applicable. Yes, that is better than an F though. I could say I'm slightly, cautiously optimistic. We don't really know anything about the mindset or philosophy the team will have once they do start making decisions.

How about the Bonn pool of "guys who are really efficient but dont cost alot?" Who should the Knicks target from there?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Bonn1997
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7/6/2017  11:46 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/6/2017  11:47 AM
fishmike wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
smackeddog wrote:Worst off season ever? Think that one where we landed Shandon Anderson and Howard Eisley's contracts were infinitely worse! The one where we traded ewing for cap hell was pretty brutal too. Oh and the one where we traded Cambuslang and a are stoudamire in their primes for McDyess. And the one where we traded 2 unprotected firsts (turned into Noah and Aldridge) for eddy curry and signed Jerome James to the max MLE
So far this is a great offseason. No long deals for players who arent moving the needle. Setting up for long looks at young players. We have some vets that will play valuable roles (defense) if they stay in Lee, Noah and possibly KOQ. We can see what KP looks like as the primary scorer. We can see how Baker looks in a free offense with Hornecek to put what he wants in place. We can see if Kuz takes a step forward, or if Dotson or another young guy steps forward and turns into a player. We can keep cap space and use it to add assets when some team gets desperate and we should have a great pick next year and a very flexible roster.

So far Knicks are doing everything a smart franchise would do.


Let's not set the bar that low. The grade closer to NA than being either a good or a bad grade.
how is the bar low? I think so far this is sound. I have not seen much go down I really wish the Knicks were apart of. Doing nothing is the best move. Focus on the developing the talent here. Also there a pending Melo trade (most likely) and everything changes after that. NA is fine. Beats an F

OK but you don't get an A for doing nothing. A robot could do nothing. That's why the grade is incomplete or not applicable. Yes, that is better than an F though. I could say I'm slightly, cautiously optimistic. We don't really know anything about the mindset or philosophy the team will have once they do start making decisions.

How about the Bonn pool of "guys who are really efficient but dont cost alot?" Who should the Knicks target from there?

We trying to win long-term? Win now? I already mentioned I would have happily beaten the offer to get Jimmy Butler. I'm happy to take back bad contracts if we're getting draft picks and building long-term. The main thing that would cause me to give the team an A for the off-season is if they hired the right executives who can closely examine all the data for all the players. I don't spend my time doing that any more.
This is turning into the worst off season ever for the knicks

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