ekstarks94 wrote:Phil is not stupid if he can get a 4 and booker and maybe a bender....I will pack KP bags...
Phil has an ego but he is the boss...what KP pulled was bs....so I look at this to ways....either trade KP and get a nice package or put his ass on notice with this trade talk...

This a thousand times this

Sinix wrote:There's a terrible culture in the Knicks locker room and it starts with Melo.

When your highest paid and best player is not a winner or a competitor and doesn't care about the franchise then it's going to create rot all over. By watching a constant defying and usurping within the Knicks players ranks, mostly by Melo, it's infected players like KP. KP came into the league impressionable. From up top he heard 'ball movement and triangle'. Fish and Melo blatantly spat at that and taught KP this type of attitude towards guys like Phil is cool.

Know how I know it's not Phil who is wrong? Melo has an entire career now of being a loser who is not willing to follow the game plan. George Karl called him out on it. He got D'antoni fired over it. D'antoni just won COTY and Karl is a coaching legend.

Melo has got to go and with the way KP has been acting, give me one good reason why fielding offers for him isn't a good move. Say this with me people 'In the NBA assets are largely liquid'.

The genius of dealing KP is that enough GMs might think Phil actually is incompetent that we can sell high.

check the record with melo as a knick

melo without phil 169-143- 4 playoff series 3 yrs

melo with phil 79-167 lottery 3 yrs

Yeah mels the problem

1. From a profit sharing and public relations standpoint, it is a player/employee's league more so than many private enterprises. Quality supply of the workforce being a significant factor. If the league was publicly owned, then it would be more an investor's league, more liquidly inter-related with the remainder of the economy, and with stock appeal/opportunity cost more directly related to player compensation - acting as a check. Not interested in advocating either, just an observation regarding "who's league it is."

2. Phil has played his hand badly several times. His negotiation skills have been quite poor so far - both regarding Carmelo (the signing and inability to work through the NTC), many past trades and in dealings with the media. That said, I like a portion of his track record - in that there is obvious overlap between coaching and GM in team and player evaluation, and I expect this skill to help us in this and future drafts. KP, on the other hand, has zero role in appraising Phil Jackson, and needs to be taught the hard way (without trading him unless the haul is massive).

Allanfan20 wrote:This is a players league. If I were James Dolan, I would pull the trigger and fire Phil ASAP before he has a chance to trade KP. Allow the rest of your staff to draft the right player then search for the right GM. No, that GM is not Isiah Thomas nor is it Steve Mills.

I understand KP is being super immature and he should be reprimanded the minute he gets state side. You cannot trade him for this though. He is a big man who has the chance to become a star and players like that can turn your franchise around.

PS: If I were KP, I would get your ass back state-side, ASAP. Take the heat and clear the sheot hole up. Do not play for your National Team. I understand that's important but right now, you have an obligation to your club.

nykshaknbake wrote:On of the problems I have with Phil on this is that it shouldn't be aired out in public. Phil almost never gives any info on team direction or other stuff you expect from your front office. He lives to publically bash his own players which u don't expect from the front office. It devalues your players and creates discord.

Phil doesn't 'bash' players in the public. Sometimes he gives his honest assessment in a gentle way and people run with it. For example Phil says -

"I think Melo would probably be better off utilizing his skillset on a team closer to an NBA championship at this point in his career"

OH MY GOD THIS GUY INSULTED MELO, HIS FAMILY, HES RACIST AND OUT OF TOUCH!!!!!

Most of it is power plays. He's trying to get Melo to drop his NTC and if you're reading the news Melo still won't do it.

I actually feel like Phil has to get even harsher at this point to get the message to Melo.

Sinix wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:On of the problems I have with Phil on this is that it shouldn't be aired out in public. Phil almost never gives any info on team direction or other stuff you expect from your front office. He lives to publically bash his own players which u don't expect from the front office. It devalues your players and creates discord.

Phil doesn't 'bash' players in the public. Sometimes he gives his honest assessment in a gentle way and people run with it. For example Phil says -

"I think Melo would probably be better off utilizing his skillset on a team closer to an NBA championship at this point in his career"

OH MY GOD THIS GUY INSULTED MELO, HIS FAMILY, HES RACIST AND OUT OF TOUCH!!!!!

Most of it is power plays. He's trying to get Melo to drop his NTC and if you're reading the news Melo still won't do it.

I actually feel like Phil has to get even harsher at this point to get the message to Melo.

I'm in this camp. Phil is being brutally honest not bashing

He has done this before to players much better than melo and KP. They didn't like it either but at the same time eventuallyrespected it

Personally I agree that it would be nicer to keep things in house but I also appreciate that a good portion of a coaches job (which Phil still acts like) is to motivate. Sometimes a carrot. Sometimes a stick.

What Phil has said is not news. EssentiLly all his prior coaches and any analyst worth his salt have also said

Does anyone remember when Parcells referred to Terry Glenn as "she"

However I don't think a harsher message is needed. He should be matter of fact and even keeled

Bonn1997 wrote:

Chandler wrote:

Sinix wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:On of the problems I have with Phil on this is that it shouldn't be aired out in public. Phil almost never gives any info on team direction or other stuff you expect from your front office. He lives to publically bash his own players which u don't expect from the front office. It devalues your players and creates discord.

Phil doesn't 'bash' players in the public. Sometimes he gives his honest assessment in a gentle way and people run with it. For example Phil says -

"I think Melo would probably be better off utilizing his skillset on a team closer to an NBA championship at this point in his career"

OH MY GOD THIS GUY INSULTED MELO, HIS FAMILY, HES RACIST AND OUT OF TOUCH!!!!!

Most of it is power plays. He's trying to get Melo to drop his NTC and if you're reading the news Melo still won't do it.

I actually feel like Phil has to get even harsher at this point to get the message to Melo.

I'm in this camp. Phil is being brutally honest not bashing

He has done this before to players much better than melo and KP. They didn't like it either but at the same time eventuallyrespected it

Personally I agree that it would be nicer to keep things in house but I also appreciate that a good portion of a coaches job (which Phil still acts like) is to motivate. Sometimes a carrot. Sometimes a stick.

What Phil has said is not news. EssentiLly all his prior coaches and any analyst worth his salt have also said

Does anyone remember when Parcells referred to Terry Glenn as "she"

Too bad we don't have anyone being brutally honest with Phil! It would be hilarious to see Melo or Dolan or Mills come out and give him a taste of his honesty.

I'm sure that day will come when melo writes his memoirs

Again this has happened w mj kobe and shaq

All were much better players and Phil would challenge them to be better

In each case they got better and won big

In Melos case for whatever reason he thought he knew better. Now everyone is frustrated and disgusted

Bonn1997 wrote:

Chandler wrote:

Sinix wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:On of the problems I have with Phil on this is that it shouldn't be aired out in public. Phil almost never gives any info on team direction or other stuff you expect from your front office. He lives to publically bash his own players which u don't expect from the front office. It devalues your players and creates discord.

Phil doesn't 'bash' players in the public. Sometimes he gives his honest assessment in a gentle way and people run with it. For example Phil says -

"I think Melo would probably be better off utilizing his skillset on a team closer to an NBA championship at this point in his career"

OH MY GOD THIS GUY INSULTED MELO, HIS FAMILY, HES RACIST AND OUT OF TOUCH!!!!!

Most of it is power plays. He's trying to get Melo to drop his NTC and if you're reading the news Melo still won't do it.

I actually feel like Phil has to get even harsher at this point to get the message to Melo.

I'm in this camp. Phil is being brutally honest not bashing

He has done this before to players much better than melo and KP. They didn't like it either but at the same time eventuallyrespected it

Personally I agree that it would be nicer to keep things in house but I also appreciate that a good portion of a coaches job (which Phil still acts like) is to motivate. Sometimes a carrot. Sometimes a stick.

What Phil has said is not news. EssentiLly all his prior coaches and any analyst worth his salt have also said

Does anyone remember when Parcells referred to Terry Glenn as "she"

Too bad we don't have anyone being brutally honest with Phil! It would be hilarious to see Melo or Dolan or Mills come out and give him a taste of his honesty.

For what reason would that serve?

The only person who would badmouth Phil and not have it come back to bite them is someone whose bridge is already burned like Derek Fisher.

How do we think of Derek Fisher now?

If Melo came out and was 'brutally honest with Phil', which you just want him to insult Phil because thats what you are percieving Phil is doing and it's hurting your feelings, it would do nothing but hurt Melo.

Same thing for Dolan. Same thing for Mills unless we part ways with him.

Phil's the boss of guys like Melo and Mills. If the boss needs to criticize his employees, that's his job.

It's never the job of a Melo to criticize Phil unless Phil or Dolan asks for it.

Bonn1997 wrote:

Sinix wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Sinix wrote:There's a terrible culture in the Knicks locker room and it starts with Melo.

When your highest paid and best player is not a winner or a competitor and doesn't care about the franchise then it's going to create rot all over. By watching a constant defying and usurping within the Knicks players ranks, mostly by Melo, it's infected players like KP. KP came into the league impressionable. From up top he heard 'ball movement and triangle'. Fish and Melo blatantly spat at that and taught KP this type of attitude towards guys like Phil is cool.

Know how I know it's not Phil who is wrong? Melo has an entire career now of being a loser who is not willing to follow the game plan. George Karl called him out on it. He got D'antoni fired over it. D'antoni just won COTY and Karl is a coaching legend.

Melo has got to go and with the way KP has been acting, give me one good reason why fielding offers for him isn't a good move. Say this with me people 'In the NBA assets are largely liquid'.

The genius of dealing KP is that enough GMs might think Phil actually is incompetent that we can sell high.

check the record with melo as a knick

melo without phil 169-143- 4 playoff series 3 yrs

melo with phil 79-167 lottery 3 yrs

Yeah mels the problem

More like Melo was a loser before Phil and he's become a bigger loser as he's aged into his 30s and refuses to change his game to a more team oriented style.

Melo is a freakin albatross.

Yeah, 1248's #s aren't right either. He's including the winning tear the Knicks went on in 2013-14 once Phil joined the team as part of the record without Phil. He's also including all of 2010-11 as with Melo even though the team had a marginally higher winning percentage that year before Melo joined them. The record would still be a tad over .500 with Melo before Phil, and I'd agree with Joec's interpretation of that figure.

I didn't even look at the specific #s because I've watched Melo his whole career.

He's a cancer and a loser.

He never came anywhere close to a championship contending leader of a team and that's all you need to know. For all his ego and talk every off season.

He's pissed off Phil by not following the game plan and we know this isn't a Phil problem because he's pulled the same sh-t with other top tier coaches. Ran D'antoni out of town(just won COTY), couldn't play with Lin, didn't work with Karl.

He hamstrung us when he came to the Knicks by making us give up a team worth of assets and now his sh-tty attitude is making it so we can't trade him away for assets either. Melo is going to make us buy him out to get rid of him.

If this is what loyalty to NY looks like, I'd rather have the disloyalty he gave to the Nuggets.

At least he made a conference finals for the Nuggets and left them with assets when he left. I have nothing but bad memories of ugly basketball with Melo's Knicks. He will not go down in Knicks history like Ewing to me.

Sinix wrote:

franco12 wrote:

Sinix wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Sinix wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Sinix wrote:There's a terrible culture in the Knicks locker room and it starts with Melo.

When your highest paid and best player is not a winner or a competitor and doesn't care about the franchise then it's going to create rot all over. By watching a constant defying and usurping within the Knicks players ranks, mostly by Melo, it's infected players like KP. KP came into the league impressionable. From up top he heard 'ball movement and triangle'. Fish and Melo blatantly spat at that and taught KP this type of attitude towards guys like Phil is cool.

Know how I know it's not Phil who is wrong? Melo has an entire career now of being a loser who is not willing to follow the game plan. George Karl called him out on it. He got D'antoni fired over it. D'antoni just won COTY and Karl is a coaching legend.

Melo has got to go and with the way KP has been acting, give me one good reason why fielding offers for him isn't a good move. Say this with me people 'In the NBA assets are largely liquid'.

The genius of dealing KP is that enough GMs might think Phil actually is incompetent that we can sell high.

check the record with melo as a knick

melo without phil 169-143- 4 playoff series 3 yrs

melo with phil 79-167 lottery 3 yrs

Yeah mels the problem

More like Melo was a loser before Phil and he's become a bigger loser as he's aged into his 30s and refuses to change his game to a more team oriented style.

Melo is a freakin albatross.

Yeah, 1248's #s aren't right either. He's including the winning tear the Knicks went on in 2013-14 once Phil joined the team as part of the record without Phil. He's also including all of 2010-11 as with Melo even though the team had a marginally higher winning percentage that year before Melo joined them. The record would still be a tad over .500 with Melo before Phil, and I'd agree with Joec's interpretation of that figure.

I didn't even look at the specific #s because I've watched Melo his whole career.

He's a cancer and a loser.

He never came anywhere close to a championship contending leader of a team and that's all you need to know. For all his ego and talk every off season.

He's pissed off Phil by not following the game plan and we know this isn't a Phil problem because he's pulled the same sh-t with other top tier coaches. Ran D'antoni out of town(just won COTY), couldn't play with Lin, didn't work with Karl.

He hamstrung us when he came to the Knicks by making us give up a team worth of assets and now his sh-tty attitude is making it so we can't trade him away for assets either. Melo is going to make us buy him out to get rid of him.

If this is what loyalty to NY looks like, I'd rather have the disloyalty he gave to the Nuggets.

At least he made a conference finals for the Nuggets and left them with assets when he left. I have nothing but bad memories of ugly basketball with Melo's Knicks. He will not go down in Knicks history like Ewing to me.

If Phil is a good GM, why did he resign a cancer and loser and give him a NTC?

I wanted Melo to walk, not because I don't like him or think he's a loser, but because handing out that amount of your cap when you're going to suck is counterproductive to trying to rebuild.

I guess Phil knows this now - wished he realized it then.

But I guess when you're learning on the job, you make mistakes.

Because Melo is also very talented and if you let him walk, you get nothing for him.

Re-signing Melo was the right move. You don't let assets walk for nothing. That's what happened to the Thunder with Kevin Durant.

At the time of re-signing Melo was talking about trusting in Phil's plan and playing within the triangle.

I'll admit I was hopeful regarding Melo at the time but now at age 32 or whatever he's at, he's clearly not going to change and we all need to get with the program and move on.

Melo is a loser as a leader mentally and he doesn't have the physicality to mask that any longer. He needs a legitimate contending NBA team with the mental and physical championship make up to be useful now.

So negotiating a buy out with Melo now is a better move than let him go back then? They will pay Melo to play for somebody else. Wow great way to use our cap Phil.