StarksEwing1 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Kharma is a B. D'Antoni was at what might be the pinnacle of his career, things were going great for him this year. Instead of taking the high road, MDA chooses to pile on Melo in an interview. He did this knowing that Anthony has gone through maybe the worst year of his personal and professional life, and MDA had one of his best.

How exactly did he pile on melo? In the article he said Melo is a good guy and he still talks to him. All he said is that they wanted to play different styles and melo pretty much won out which was true.

They have crossed paths on Olympic teams. We fans think its all about personalities. Its business.
MDA was at his contracts end. It was no big deal.

I don't think melo is all that out of sorts either. He has his health, his kids healthy and his marriage has been on the rocks for years. He has choices in life. Remember, "La La is married, Carmelo is not"!!
So why would be be upset with his marriage?

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:The knicks entire roster is trash..top to bottom..except for KP

Melo didnt make his annual all star trip but I wouldnt call him trash. Overpaid maybe

Didn't you post that he was 418th out of 418 (or something like that) on defense? Combine that with shooting worse from the field than the worst team in the league, and what are you left with?

Whether it’s ignoring the numbers and defending isolation basketball, waving off the coach’s play call, or barely moving without the ball, there’s no way around it: Anthony hasn’t fully committed to the triangle offense.

The fact that Anthony ranked No. 418 in the NBA in Defensive Real Plus-Minus is all you need to know about his effort on defense.

http://dailyknicks.com/2017/04/16/new-york-knicks-five-harsh-truths-situation/

Actually it seems Melo ended the year #420 out of 468! Rose was #441

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:The knicks entire roster is trash..top to bottom..except for KP

Melo didnt make his annual all star trip but I wouldnt call him trash. Overpaid maybe

Didn't you post that he was 418th out of 418 (or something like that) on defense? Combine that with shooting worse from the field than the worst team in the league, and what are you left with?

Whether it’s ignoring the numbers and defending isolation basketball, waving off the coach’s play call, or barely moving without the ball, there’s no way around it: Anthony hasn’t fully committed to the triangle offense.

The fact that Anthony ranked No. 418 in the NBA in Defensive Real Plus-Minus is all you need to know about his effort on defense.

http://dailyknicks.com/2017/04/16/new-york-knicks-five-harsh-truths-situation/

Actually it seems Melo ended the year #420 out of 468! Rose was #441

And that's half of the entire cap.

You guys are focused on the wrong thing. You need "star" players to win. Its the job of their teammates to play defense and keep the plus-minus **** straight. The problem with the Knicks is Phil's tweeting, Dolan's meddling, Jeff's coaching, bad roster, not enough talent, bad media, bad fans, no one to "carry the load". Instead of that you are asking these guys to play defense? C'mon man. Isn't it enough that they "sacrificed" their point totals per game for a miserable 27 million a year?

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:The knicks entire roster is trash..top to bottom..except for KP

Melo didnt make his annual all star trip but I wouldnt call him trash. Overpaid maybe

Didn't you post that he was 418th out of 418 (or something like that) on defense? Combine that with shooting worse from the field than the worst team in the league, and what are you left with?

Whether it’s ignoring the numbers and defending isolation basketball, waving off the coach’s play call, or barely moving without the ball, there’s no way around it: Anthony hasn’t fully committed to the triangle offense.

The fact that Anthony ranked No. 418 in the NBA in Defensive Real Plus-Minus is all you need to know about his effort on defense.

http://dailyknicks.com/2017/04/16/new-york-knicks-five-harsh-truths-situation/

Actually it seems Melo ended the year #420 out of 468! Rose was #441

And that's half of the entire cap.

Phil had to be convinced in his new approach after watching the Spurs Defense! I was glad to hear Phil say his scouts will focus on On Ball Defenders from now on. Kawhi, Green and Simmons displayed some serious on ball and help D!!!

"The journey to build this team for the upcoming season and beyond continues," Jackson said. "We have added players with this move that will fit right in to our system while maintaining future flexibility."

StarksEwing1 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Kharma is a B. D'Antoni was at what might be the pinnacle of his career, things were going great for him this year. Instead of taking the high road, MDA chooses to pile on Melo in an interview. He did this knowing that Anthony has gone through maybe the worst year of his personal and professional life, and MDA had one of his best.

How exactly did he pile on melo? In the article he said Melo is a good guy and he still talks to him. All he said is that they wanted to play different styles and melo pretty much won out which was true.

CrushAlot wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Kharma is a B. D'Antoni was at what might be the pinnacle of his career, things were going great for him this year. Instead of taking the high road, MDA chooses to pile on Melo in an interview. He did this knowing that Anthony has gone through maybe the worst year of his personal and professional life, and MDA had one of his best.

How exactly did he pile on melo? In the article he said Melo is a good guy and he still talks to him. All he said is that they wanted to play different styles and melo pretty much won out which was true.

He said that Carmelo gave the Knicks an ultimatum, Melo or D'Antoni. He waited 6 years to say it and he did it when Melo was having a horrible year as Gustav said. It also is bs. D'Antoni was a lame duck coach and the gm had already hired his replacement and amnestied his point guard. D'Antoni ended his Knick career 6 weeks before his contract expired.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Kharma is a B. D'Antoni was at what might be the pinnacle of his career, things were going great for him this year. Instead of taking the high road, MDA chooses to pile on Melo in an interview. He did this knowing that Anthony has gone through maybe the worst year of his personal and professional life, and MDA had one of his best.

How exactly did he pile on melo? In the article he said Melo is a good guy and he still talks to him. All he said is that they wanted to play different styles and melo pretty much won out which was true.

He said that Carmelo gave the Knicks an ultimatum, Melo or D'Antoni. He waited 6 years to say it and he did it when Melo was having a horrible year as Gustav said. It also is bs. D'Antoni was a lame duck coach and the gm had already hired his replacement and amnestied his point guard. D'Antoni ended his Knick career 6 weeks before his contract expired.

Billups wasn't his point guard. truthfully Bllups didn't want t leave Denver but was dragged into the trade. MDA id a good dude so sorry I don't see how he "bashed melo" like a few claim. Lets be honest melo hated his system and it showed. It is what it is

CrushAlot wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Kharma is a B. D'Antoni was at what might be the pinnacle of his career, things were going great for him this year. Instead of taking the high road, MDA chooses to pile on Melo in an interview. He did this knowing that Anthony has gone through maybe the worst year of his personal and professional life, and MDA had one of his best.

How exactly did he pile on melo? In the article he said Melo is a good guy and he still talks to him. All he said is that they wanted to play different styles and melo pretty much won out which was true.

He said that Carmelo gave the Knicks an ultimatum, Melo or D'Antoni. He waited 6 years to say it and he did it when Melo was having a horrible year as Gustav said. It also is bs. D'Antoni was a lame duck coach and the gm had already hired his replacement and amnestied his point guard. D'Antoni ended his Knick career 6 weeks before his contract expired.

Billups wasn't his point guard. truthfully Bllups didn't want t leave Denver but was dragged into the trade. MDA id a good dude so sorry I don't see how he "bashed melo" like a few claim. Lets be honest melo hated his system and it showed. It is what it is

Toney Douglas ended up being his point guard when Grunwld amnestied Billups to sign Tyson. We're any of those moves made in support of D'Antoni's style? How about the GM hiring his college roommate as associate head coach in charge of defense? Or the gm leaving D'Antoni as a lame duck? He came out and said a player said it is him or me and that is why he quit. The guy's replacement was sitting next to him but the Knicks were going to let Mike finish out his last year. He waited six years until he finally was winning to blame Melo. Mike piled on Melo in my opinion. I believe 'bash' is the term you chose.

CrushAlot wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Kharma is a B. D'Antoni was at what might be the pinnacle of his career, things were going great for him this year. Instead of taking the high road, MDA chooses to pile on Melo in an interview. He did this knowing that Anthony has gone through maybe the worst year of his personal and professional life, and MDA had one of his best.

How exactly did he pile on melo? In the article he said Melo is a good guy and he still talks to him. All he said is that they wanted to play different styles and melo pretty much won out which was true.

He said that Carmelo gave the Knicks an ultimatum, Melo or D'Antoni. He waited 6 years to say it and he did it when Melo was having a horrible year as Gustav said. It also is bs. D'Antoni was a lame duck coach and the gm had already hired his replacement and amnestied his point guard. D'Antoni ended his Knick career 6 weeks before his contract expired.

Billups wasn't his point guard. truthfully Bllups didn't want t leave Denver but was dragged into the trade. MDA id a good dude so sorry I don't see how he "bashed melo" like a few claim. Lets be honest melo hated his system and it showed. It is what it is

Toney Douglas ended up being his point guard when Grunwld amnestied Billups to sign Tyson. We're any of those moves made in support of D'Antoni's style? How about the GM hiring his college roommate as associate head coach in charge of defense? Or the gm leaving D'Antoni as a lame duck? He came out and said a player said it is him or me and that is why he quit. The guy's replacement was sitting next to him but the Knicks were going to let Mike finish out his last year. He waited six years until he finally was winning to blame Melo. Mike piled on Melo in my opinion. I believe 'bash' is the term you chose.

im sorry i still dont see it as "piling on" or "bashing" or whatever term u prefer. He said melo is a good dude and he still gets along with him. I think most people would Agree that melo is a pretty good guy but he can be stubborn when it comes to certain styles or systems he does not want to run. George karl,phil,and dantoni have all said it.

The team was built in a traditional manner not a D'Antoni seven seconds or less type roster. D'Antoni was in the last year of his deal. Walsh was gone. Grunwald went all In on the front court. D'Antoni wasn't winning again as the coach. He resigned but he had no juice. His jobs my was done in 6 weeks, he wasn't winning and what he was doing wasn't working again. Saying Melo gave an ultimatum is blaming Melo. D'Antoni saying he still talks with Melo etc. doesn't change what he is doing. D'Antoni always leaves the door open to be called a good guy when he behaves like an @ss.

It is little bit off-topic (and long) but I agree with that Melo has to be traded. However, I don't think we would get better in this way. It is quite possible we will be worse, and a motivated Melo in another team would do everything he could to prove that Knicks management sucks in the way that he starts playing the right way. Yeah, it is very sad that the only few things you can motivate Melo is about power struggle.

Phil talked a lot about culture, systems and teamwork, and I am pretty sure lot of us didn't truly believe in it. It is not that we don't believe in him, we just do not think basketballs can be won in this way. they would argue "If it is true, why would every nba champ team has multiple all-stars?" To many of us. Culture, systems and teamwork are just fancy words you could use when you win and you have talents, like the word "determination", "killer sense", and "willpower".

If (1) talents are very important, (2) Melo is a great talent and (3)I would never believe in tank (for unrelated reasons), why would I still think we should trade him?

It is because Melo is too good offensively and he alone would change the system. As long as he is on the floor, players will tend to change the way they play in order to cooperate with him. It is just like OKC and Westbrook, he is so good that he is the offense of OKC and the offense of OKC is him.

But Westbrook could not play 48 mins and Melo surely cannot. When Westbrook was on the bench, the OKC offense took a rest as well. It is not that other players suck (while they may not be very good), it is just that they always play a certain way for 39 mins and then of course they have a little clue in other 9 mins because they don't have a framework to fall back on.

This is why Phil really wants Bball system, triangle or not, and this is why Spur could win even without its best player and its starting PG. They have a system, and they did not panic.

When Melo is here, players rely on him rather than the system to score. He is the offense, and he changes everything. Melo is just that good. When he runs around, then the defense have to change as well. (too bad he does not like to run around)

On the court, Melo is not bad. He is too good and that is why he has to go this time. He is too old to waste time here, and every Knicks player has to learn the system and embrace it totally.

fwk00 wrote:There's no reason to assign blame at all. I like Phil's approach of simply identifying what might work better and what empirically hasn't worked. In Phil's presser he didn't "blame" Melo - he simply said that it wasn't working and that if Melo's [emphatic public] pseudo-demand was that Phil should commit the team to yet another Melo-centric run at "winning", Phil was recalibrating a strategy that didn't include a Melo-centric strategy. ERGO, Melo should consider other options.

The problem with blame games is that the baby is always thrown out with the bath water.

And the difference between continuous improvement and the blame game is a subtle one. By speaking about Melo in particular, it can be taken as a slam instead of as a process point that's exhausted its cost-effective potential to improve.

By recalibrating the answer to the question of "How do the Knicks get better?", one of the potential answers HAS TO BE to trade Melo for a different set of more complementary assets. A potential answer must take into consideration how far the team is from winning a ring and how much time Melo has to contribute at the level required two, three, or four years down the road. Taking Melo's desires into consideration the burning question is, "Where can Melo fulfill his desire to win a ring, NY or elsewhere?"

In a blame game, its little more than a finger-pointing exercise that is nothing more than judgmental. Some set of reasonable or unreasonable expectations has not been fulfilled, therefore... its *that* person's fault.

If the metric for success is going to predominantly be wins and losses then naturally the players have to take responsibility for conforming to and performing to the best of their ability what's being asked of them qualified by the quality of the talent pool. This is simply a minimum criteria for examination. This is what they are paid to do. And this doesn't change if we broaden the definition of success to include quality of play, maturity, year-to-year general team talent threshold, or whatever.

In fact there's a very steep ladder to climb to claim that a VP, President, or Owner are more responsible that the players and coaches.

Paris907 wrote:Walsh had a vision. Don't trade for Melo when he will come anyway and he was right. Dolan fires him and trades for Melo and in retrospect puts in motion where we are today.

Well after drafting Jordan Hill over multiple other pgs. Trading Hill and another lottery pick to dump 6mil in cap space. Giving away players like Crawford and Randolph only to give Amare 100mil when doctors said he was damage goods and the next highest offer was 60mil. Why should Dolan trust Walsh decision making.