crzymdups wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

EnySpree wrote:This is tired....

Its just time to part ways. I don't care about this narrative they want to paint. We're not starphuching for Melo. Were on a youth movement.... The end of discussion. Melo has a no trade clause. The Knicks can't trade him. He has to ok a trade. It's not up to the Knicks to try and do anything. I don't want to hear about bitch fits and school girl conversations.

Tell the Knicks which teams you want to go to... and then go. Bye! All this ****ing drama. Let's go Knicks. That's all that matters. Go to another team. Let us pick up the pieces and keep it moving. Enough of this bull**** already

I agree partially... but the Knicks will actually need to negotiate a trade for Melo! He makes $30M with his trade kicker next season. They have to find a team that can fit him into their cap. I'm not sure they can do it.

I hope they can, because this is clearly a mess with him here now.

That was the Nets game we loss and they made 20 3s and absolutely no one played defense and I Thought JH had loss the team at that point.

I still feel like JH loss major respect from all of the veterans when HW allowed Phil to come in a change his game plan and judging from the comments regarding veterans in the "post game show that aired last night, he felt the same way

Melo basically saw that the team had no direction and were commitming to winning

Meh! The vets didn't really come thru for this team so who gives a flip how they feel??? The younger players kept playing hard and listening. At this point it's really not worth arguing over a failed roster. The players we'll be moving forward with and new players added this summer are what matters. We've gotta see who stays, who goes and who we bring in!!!

3 Failed rosters

He (jeff) also pointed out that the younger guys although played hard, they make too many mistakes, and don't do the little things to win games

It's part of the process when you play a lot of kids. You think the TWolves don't make mistakes? It's not an indictment of our younger players somehow not being normal.

You seem incapable of understanding the development process. I suggest you might not want to watch the development process of ANY YOUNG TEAM if you can't take watching young players make mistakes!!!

What do you think is gonna happen when we add another few rookies???

This new thing where we only compare the Knicks to the TWolves is really odd.

Yeah. Not sure why the Wolves keep being compared to the Knicks.

Spoiler alert.....

They have the same record....

KP and Kat came in the same draft....

Both teams trying to rebuild

😧

Spoiler alert - the Wolves are much farther along in their rebuild. We have one young first rounder on our team. They have five or six. They're going to be good much faster and I question the basketball knowledge of anyone who doesn't see that.

That's kind of the point. A team with 2 #1s and 5-6 lotto picks hold our same record and are struggling to find their way. Yet Phil with not even a quarter of those resources is expected to field a playoff team.

For one thing, most of our wins were driven by Rose and Melo and Courtney Lee and Lance Thomas - veterans that the Wolves don't have and need to add to flesh out their roster.

If the Knicks are really talking about rebuilding, they'll probably get rid of Melo and Rose and maybe even CLee... this roster probably wins more like 20 games over the course of a full season, like the Nets.

The Timberwolves have amassed a large quality of talent. Some of it may need to be moved - maybe Wiggins or LaVine or both... but those are assets that can be used to improve the team. Just because they haven't figured it out doesn't mean they aren't ahead of us.

I guess that's what I'm confused about with this thread - are we talking about rebuilding or team performance this season? The Wolves were tanking to end the year. They lost their last six games. I wish the Knicks had been able to do that instead of going 3-3, we'd have the 4th lotto slot insteand of 6/7.

We were supposedly tanking and a bunch of people here, I think, are overreacting to winning some games with the kids to end the year. This happens to a lot of bad teams in April. Other teams are exhausted and come in taking you lightly because they see you're tanking and they get beat. The Nets won 6 out of 12 to end the year, the Lakers finished winning 5 in a row, even the Suns won some.

Every single year around the league there is fool's gold in April. Ramon Sessions once averaged like 12 assists a game for the month of April. Thank god he didn't do that here, you guys would be talking about not needing to draft a point guard. Oh wait, some already did that with Ron Baker.

Look, I like Ron, but if you guys are looking at his April and deciding he's a starter you're going to be in for an unpleasant surprise in November.

Lee may put pressure on Phil to be moved if its clearly a rebuild. However I hope he stays. If Lance/Lee/Noah are healthy it moves the needle. Maybe that is a lot to ask, but if it doesnt work you keep building. We are adding lottery talent which is the key.

If we are waiting/hoping on undrafted FAs like Ron Baker to move the needle its time for a wake up. We arent, but Baker IS a part of a clear culture shift from Rose/Jennings. I also have to say I am good with that in light of this season. Dont wait till next year. Dont just ride it out. Have a seat and lets see how Baker or Willy looks for a 10 game stretch, even if its during the NBA tankathon.

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:I have supported Melo around here with fervor since he broke out under Woodson and saved that season. The guy has shown he has impact and game changing talent. However this article is simple and so clear.

Player doesnt give max effort. Points finger. Assess blame. Coaches say when you give max effort you can say something.

Good for Kurt. I am sure that went right to Phil. Finally someone said hey maybe it isnt the organization. Maybe your just to slow and dont play hard enough to be as great as you think you are. Its done. This guy needs to go. This is what you want KP/Willy around? I would rather have Ron Baker and be in the lottery. This guy is a mental midget.

Melo's effort is dictated by his interpretation of the organization's direction. Can we please get this phucking loser out of here? Now?

Teams get heated all the time. You want a superstar who is okay with losing? If a story came out that Melo was okay with losing and Hornacek yelled at him for that, you'd be saying the exact same thing.

Look, you don't like Melo, that's fine. I'm ready to move on, as well. But this is just another example of Phil using Melo as a scapegoat. And I'd bet you a fair amount of money Phil or someone in the Knicks front office leaked this story to Begley in advance of Phil's news conference for a reason. It's funny that you guys rail against the articles of Isola and some other writers, but if Phil leaks a story to the media you lap it right up.

Here's an update to that story -

The Daily News has learned that one hour earlier, several players were angry that Hornacek told the team that with the playoffs no longer in reach to just go “out and have fun and don’t worry about winning.” That didn’t sit well with the veterans.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/phil-jackson-extension-proof-winning-not-priority-knicks-article-1.3053453?utm_content=buffer5fc33&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=NYDNSports+Twitter

That's probably Melo's side, while Begley had the front office side. I'm sure I know which one you side with.

Let me ask - Is it possible that Hornacek is not a great coach? Or a great communicator? DRose goes AWOL, Jeff lost the team here, Courtney Lee posts "dumb and dumber", Kristaps says things are a mess from "top to bottom", and finally we hear Melo loses his **** in the lockerroom and questions the direction of the team. Hornacek lost the team this year. He lost his Phoenix team. There were front offices issues in both places, but he's proven he's a company man and the vets lost faith in him when he re-installed the Triangle at the All-star break. It showed them he wasn't in charge and he didn't have their back. You can act like it was just Melo, but it wasn't. There were mixed messages from the coaching staff all year - three different versions of the offense at least. Phil coming in to coach practice sometimes. Rambis in charge of the defense sometimes.

This situation is a mess. Laying it at Melo's feet is ****ing sad. Obviously it's time to move on, but Phil has created a ****ing disaster area to get rid of Melo. He's undercut his new coach and created a poisonous atmosphere the KP felt compelled to speak out on. We get two more years til KP can be a free agent. Phil better do some good work to improve things around here for KP.

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:I have supported Melo around here with fervor since he broke out under Woodson and saved that season. The guy has shown he has impact and game changing talent. However this article is simple and so clear.

Player doesnt give max effort. Points finger. Assess blame. Coaches say when you give max effort you can say something.

Good for Kurt. I am sure that went right to Phil. Finally someone said hey maybe it isnt the organization. Maybe your just to slow and dont play hard enough to be as great as you think you are. Its done. This guy needs to go. This is what you want KP/Willy around? I would rather have Ron Baker and be in the lottery. This guy is a mental midget.

Melo's effort is dictated by his interpretation of the organization's direction. Can we please get this phucking loser out of here? Now?

Teams get heated all the time. You want a superstar who is okay with losing? If a story came out that Melo was okay with losing and Hornacek yelled at him for that, you'd be saying the exact same thing.

Look, you don't like Melo, that's fine. I'm ready to move on, as well. But this is just another example of Phil using Melo as a scapegoat. And I'd bet you a fair amount of money Phil or someone in the Knicks front office leaked this story to Begley in advance of Phil's news conference for a reason. It's funny that you guys rail against the articles of Isola and some other writers, but if Phil leaks a story to the media you lap it right up.

Here's an update to that story -

The Daily News has learned that one hour earlier, several players were angry that Hornacek told the team that with the playoffs no longer in reach to just go “out and have fun and don’t worry about winning.” That didn’t sit well with the veterans.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/phil-jackson-extension-proof-winning-not-priority-knicks-article-1.3053453?utm_content=buffer5fc33&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=NYDNSports+Twitter

That's probably Melo's side, while Begley had the front office side. I'm sure I know which one you side with.

Let me ask - Is it possible that Hornacek is not a great coach? Or a great communicator? DRose goes AWOL, Jeff lost the team here, Courtney Lee posts "dumb and dumber", Kristaps says things are a mess from "top to bottom", and finally we hear Melo loses his **** in the lockerroom and questions the direction of the team. Hornacek lost the team this year. He lost his Phoenix team. There were front offices issues in both places, but he's proven he's a company man and the vets lost faith in him when he re-installed the Triangle at the All-star break. It showed them he wasn't in charge and he didn't have their back. You can act like it was just Melo, but it wasn't. There were mixed messages from the coaching staff all year - three different versions of the offense at least. Phil coming in to coach practice sometimes. Rambis in charge of the defense sometimes.

This situation is a mess. Laying it at Melo's feet is ****ing sad. Obviously it's time to move on, but Phil has created a ****ing disaster area to get rid of Melo. He's undercut his new coach and created a poisonous atmosphere the KP felt compelled to speak out on. We get two more years til KP can be a free agent. Phil better do some good work to improve things around here for KP.

crzymdups wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

EnySpree wrote:This is tired....

Its just time to part ways. I don't care about this narrative they want to paint. We're not starphuching for Melo. Were on a youth movement.... The end of discussion. Melo has a no trade clause. The Knicks can't trade him. He has to ok a trade. It's not up to the Knicks to try and do anything. I don't want to hear about bitch fits and school girl conversations.

Tell the Knicks which teams you want to go to... and then go. Bye! All this ****ing drama. Let's go Knicks. That's all that matters. Go to another team. Let us pick up the pieces and keep it moving. Enough of this bull**** already

I agree partially... but the Knicks will actually need to negotiate a trade for Melo! He makes $30M with his trade kicker next season. They have to find a team that can fit him into their cap. I'm not sure they can do it.

I hope they can, because this is clearly a mess with him here now.

That was the Nets game we loss and they made 20 3s and absolutely no one played defense and I Thought JH had loss the team at that point.

I still feel like JH loss major respect from all of the veterans when HW allowed Phil to come in a change his game plan and judging from the comments regarding veterans in the "post game show that aired last night, he felt the same way

Melo basically saw that the team had no direction and were commitming to winning

Meh! The vets didn't really come thru for this team so who gives a flip how they feel??? The younger players kept playing hard and listening. At this point it's really not worth arguing over a failed roster. The players we'll be moving forward with and new players added this summer are what matters. We've gotta see who stays, who goes and who we bring in!!!

3 Failed rosters

He (jeff) also pointed out that the younger guys although played hard, they make too many mistakes, and don't do the little things to win games

It's part of the process when you play a lot of kids. You think the TWolves don't make mistakes? It's not an indictment of our younger players somehow not being normal.

You seem incapable of understanding the development process. I suggest you might not want to watch the development process of ANY YOUNG TEAM if you can't take watching young players make mistakes!!!

What do you think is gonna happen when we add another few rookies???

This new thing where we only compare the Knicks to the TWolves is really odd.

Yeah. Not sure why the Wolves keep being compared to the Knicks.

Spoiler alert.....

They have the same record....

KP and Kat came in the same draft....

Both teams trying to rebuild

😧

Spoiler alert - the Wolves are much farther along in their rebuild. We have one young first rounder on our team. They have five or six. They're going to be good much faster and I question the basketball knowledge of anyone who doesn't see that.

That's kind of the point. A team with 2 #1s and 5-6 lotto picks hold our same record and are struggling to find their way. Yet Phil with not even a quarter of those resources is expected to field a playoff team.

For one thing, most of our wins were driven by Rose and Melo and Courtney Lee and Lance Thomas - veterans that the Wolves don't have and need to add to flesh out their roster.

If the Knicks are really talking about rebuilding, they'll probably get rid of Melo and Rose and maybe even CLee... this roster probably wins more like 20 games over the course of a full season, like the Nets.

The Timberwolves have amassed a large quality of talent. Some of it may need to be moved - maybe Wiggins or LaVine or both... but those are assets that can be used to improve the team. Just because they haven't figured it out doesn't mean they aren't ahead of us.

I guess that's what I'm confused about with this thread - are we talking about rebuilding or team performance this season? The Wolves were tanking to end the year. They lost their last six games. I wish the Knicks had been able to do that instead of going 3-3, we'd have the 4th lotto slot insteand of 6/7.

We were supposedly tanking and a bunch of people here, I think, are overreacting to winning some games with the kids to end the year. This happens to a lot of bad teams in April. Other teams are exhausted and come in taking you lightly because they see you're tanking and they get beat. The Nets won 6 out of 12 to end the year, the Lakers finished winning 5 in a row, even the Suns won some.

Every single year around the league there is fool's gold in April. Ramon Sessions once averaged like 12 assists a game for the month of April. Thank god he didn't do that here, you guys would be talking about not needing to draft a point guard. Oh wait, some already did that with Ron Baker.

Look, I like Ron, but if you guys are looking at his April and deciding he's a starter you're going to be in for an unpleasant surprise in November.

The Knicks had one draft pick. Its not possible rebuild and collect the amount of young talent the Wolves did while having multiple lotto picks with one first round draft pick. All we could,do,is take chances on guys like Rose and bargain prices and add what ever GAs were willing to settle for us.

newyorknewyork wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

EnySpree wrote:This is tired....

Its just time to part ways. I don't care about this narrative they want to paint. We're not starphuching for Melo. Were on a youth movement.... The end of discussion. Melo has a no trade clause. The Knicks can't trade him. He has to ok a trade. It's not up to the Knicks to try and do anything. I don't want to hear about bitch fits and school girl conversations.

Tell the Knicks which teams you want to go to... and then go. Bye! All this ****ing drama. Let's go Knicks. That's all that matters. Go to another team. Let us pick up the pieces and keep it moving. Enough of this bull**** already

I agree partially... but the Knicks will actually need to negotiate a trade for Melo! He makes $30M with his trade kicker next season. They have to find a team that can fit him into their cap. I'm not sure they can do it.

I hope they can, because this is clearly a mess with him here now.

That was the Nets game we loss and they made 20 3s and absolutely no one played defense and I Thought JH had loss the team at that point.

I still feel like JH loss major respect from all of the veterans when HW allowed Phil to come in a change his game plan and judging from the comments regarding veterans in the "post game show that aired last night, he felt the same way

Melo basically saw that the team had no direction and were commitming to winning

Meh! The vets didn't really come thru for this team so who gives a flip how they feel??? The younger players kept playing hard and listening. At this point it's really not worth arguing over a failed roster. The players we'll be moving forward with and new players added this summer are what matters. We've gotta see who stays, who goes and who we bring in!!!

3 Failed rosters

He (jeff) also pointed out that the younger guys although played hard, they make too many mistakes, and don't do the little things to win games

It's part of the process when you play a lot of kids. You think the TWolves don't make mistakes? It's not an indictment of our younger players somehow not being normal.

You seem incapable of understanding the development process. I suggest you might not want to watch the development process of ANY YOUNG TEAM if you can't take watching young players make mistakes!!!

What do you think is gonna happen when we add another few rookies???

This new thing where we only compare the Knicks to the TWolves is really odd.

Yeah. Not sure why the Wolves keep being compared to the Knicks.

Spoiler alert.....

They have the same record....

KP and Kat came in the same draft....

Both teams trying to rebuild

😧

Spoiler alert - the Wolves are much farther along in their rebuild. We have one young first rounder on our team. They have five or six. They're going to be good much faster and I question the basketball knowledge of anyone who doesn't see that.

That's kind of the point. A team with 2 #1s and 5-6 lotto picks hold our same record and are struggling to find their way. Yet Phil with not even a quarter of those resources is expected to field a playoff team.

For one thing, most of our wins were driven by Rose and Melo and Courtney Lee and Lance Thomas - veterans that the Wolves don't have and need to add to flesh out their roster.

If the Knicks are really talking about rebuilding, they'll probably get rid of Melo and Rose and maybe even CLee... this roster probably wins more like 20 games over the course of a full season, like the Nets.

The Timberwolves have amassed a large quality of talent. Some of it may need to be moved - maybe Wiggins or LaVine or both... but those are assets that can be used to improve the team. Just because they haven't figured it out doesn't mean they aren't ahead of us.

I guess that's what I'm confused about with this thread - are we talking about rebuilding or team performance this season? The Wolves were tanking to end the year. They lost their last six games. I wish the Knicks had been able to do that instead of going 3-3, we'd have the 4th lotto slot insteand of 6/7.

We were supposedly tanking and a bunch of people here, I think, are overreacting to winning some games with the kids to end the year. This happens to a lot of bad teams in April. Other teams are exhausted and come in taking you lightly because they see you're tanking and they get beat. The Nets won 6 out of 12 to end the year, the Lakers finished winning 5 in a row, even the Suns won some.

Every single year around the league there is fool's gold in April. Ramon Sessions once averaged like 12 assists a game for the month of April. Thank god he didn't do that here, you guys would be talking about not needing to draft a point guard. Oh wait, some already did that with Ron Baker.

Look, I like Ron, but if you guys are looking at his April and deciding he's a starter you're going to be in for an unpleasant surprise in November.

The Knicks had one draft pick. Its not possible rebuild and collect the amount of young talent the Wolves did while having multiple lotto picks with one first round draft pick. All we could,do,is take chances on guys like Rose and bargain prices and add what ever GAs were willing to settle for us.

they turned thj into a 1st rnd pick, and he traded it(grant)for rose..so I'm not sure why you guys leave that out

newyorknewyork wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

EnySpree wrote:This is tired....

Its just time to part ways. I don't care about this narrative they want to paint. We're not starphuching for Melo. Were on a youth movement.... The end of discussion. Melo has a no trade clause. The Knicks can't trade him. He has to ok a trade. It's not up to the Knicks to try and do anything. I don't want to hear about bitch fits and school girl conversations.

Tell the Knicks which teams you want to go to... and then go. Bye! All this ****ing drama. Let's go Knicks. That's all that matters. Go to another team. Let us pick up the pieces and keep it moving. Enough of this bull**** already

I agree partially... but the Knicks will actually need to negotiate a trade for Melo! He makes $30M with his trade kicker next season. They have to find a team that can fit him into their cap. I'm not sure they can do it.

I hope they can, because this is clearly a mess with him here now.

That was the Nets game we loss and they made 20 3s and absolutely no one played defense and I Thought JH had loss the team at that point.

I still feel like JH loss major respect from all of the veterans when HW allowed Phil to come in a change his game plan and judging from the comments regarding veterans in the "post game show that aired last night, he felt the same way

Melo basically saw that the team had no direction and were commitming to winning

Meh! The vets didn't really come thru for this team so who gives a flip how they feel??? The younger players kept playing hard and listening. At this point it's really not worth arguing over a failed roster. The players we'll be moving forward with and new players added this summer are what matters. We've gotta see who stays, who goes and who we bring in!!!

3 Failed rosters

He (jeff) also pointed out that the younger guys although played hard, they make too many mistakes, and don't do the little things to win games

It's part of the process when you play a lot of kids. You think the TWolves don't make mistakes? It's not an indictment of our younger players somehow not being normal.

You seem incapable of understanding the development process. I suggest you might not want to watch the development process of ANY YOUNG TEAM if you can't take watching young players make mistakes!!!

What do you think is gonna happen when we add another few rookies???

This new thing where we only compare the Knicks to the TWolves is really odd.

Yeah. Not sure why the Wolves keep being compared to the Knicks.

Spoiler alert.....

They have the same record....

KP and Kat came in the same draft....

Both teams trying to rebuild

😧

Spoiler alert - the Wolves are much farther along in their rebuild. We have one young first rounder on our team. They have five or six. They're going to be good much faster and I question the basketball knowledge of anyone who doesn't see that.

That's kind of the point. A team with 2 #1s and 5-6 lotto picks hold our same record and are struggling to find their way. Yet Phil with not even a quarter of those resources is expected to field a playoff team.

For one thing, most of our wins were driven by Rose and Melo and Courtney Lee and Lance Thomas - veterans that the Wolves don't have and need to add to flesh out their roster.

If the Knicks are really talking about rebuilding, they'll probably get rid of Melo and Rose and maybe even CLee... this roster probably wins more like 20 games over the course of a full season, like the Nets.

The Timberwolves have amassed a large quality of talent. Some of it may need to be moved - maybe Wiggins or LaVine or both... but those are assets that can be used to improve the team. Just because they haven't figured it out doesn't mean they aren't ahead of us.

I guess that's what I'm confused about with this thread - are we talking about rebuilding or team performance this season? The Wolves were tanking to end the year. They lost their last six games. I wish the Knicks had been able to do that instead of going 3-3, we'd have the 4th lotto slot insteand of 6/7.

We were supposedly tanking and a bunch of people here, I think, are overreacting to winning some games with the kids to end the year. This happens to a lot of bad teams in April. Other teams are exhausted and come in taking you lightly because they see you're tanking and they get beat. The Nets won 6 out of 12 to end the year, the Lakers finished winning 5 in a row, even the Suns won some.

Every single year around the league there is fool's gold in April. Ramon Sessions once averaged like 12 assists a game for the month of April. Thank god he didn't do that here, you guys would be talking about not needing to draft a point guard. Oh wait, some already did that with Ron Baker.

Look, I like Ron, but if you guys are looking at his April and deciding he's a starter you're going to be in for an unpleasant surprise in November.

The Knicks had one draft pick. Its not possible rebuild and collect the amount of young talent the Wolves did while having multiple lotto picks with one first round draft pick. All we could,do,is take chances on guys like Rose and bargain prices and add what ever GAs were willing to settle for us.

they turned thj into a 1st rnd pick, and he traded it(grant)for rose..so I'm not sure why you guys leave that out

In comparison for our one non lotto pick Grant. Minny has Dieng and Muhammad. For our one lotto pick KP. Minny has Lavine, Wiggins Towns, Dunn.

Yeah, again, I'm not the one who keeps bringing up Minnesota as a comparison. Nalod started a thread. I think Minnesota is obviously in much better shape than us. They got to trade Love to a contender for 2 #1 picks, Bennett and Wiggins. Bennett was a terrible bust, Wiggins might be a keeper, might have to be traded... we won't get anywhere near that much in return for Melo. Hopefully we can at least get a young-ish rotation player in return for him.