holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fwk00 wrote:
This is exactly correct. Words could never hurt or help a players talent value to a team. Melo is a well-known commodity and No one in the Knicks organization need say a word about his value.

Melo is a volume scorer based on volume possession. That's a good thing if that's what your team needs otherwise its not. He will not bring back very much in trade.

Melo was injured at the time, and trading him to a contender, mid season, would have been difficult enough. Having a legendary HOF coach publicly declaring that he doesn't like Melo's game, wasn't going to help garner interest with another team, and their fan base.

Say what you want, it sure as hell didn't help. Its why team presidents dont engage in this type of behavior. Once again, when all is said and done the buck stops with Phil Jackson, no matter how some of you try to change the subject.

At least admit that. Im more than willing to admit that Melo is a talented but flawed player. Its why I didn't want Melo back if it meant a max contract, and certainly not with a no trade clause. Its not an either or proposition.

Yes, the buck stops with Phil and Phil will help Melo pack.

But no, Melo is NOT A TALENTED player. He's NOT A FLAWED player. He's a free-loader.

A talented player will find a way to win, will adapt, will make the players around him mindful and better.

Tell me what Melo is talented at? Tapping his head?

And "flawed" implies there's a slight adjustment to be made that should have been made YEARS AGO but somehow is so mysterious no one can figure out why Melo can't understand a basketball system that requires defense.

Melo is a basketball albatross.

I guess he should give back that NCAA ring, the scoring title because he has no talent. You might believe his flaws outweighs what he brings to the table. But to suggest he brings nothing to the table is just plain silly.

Kobe and Paul Pierce said at one time that Melo was the toughest cover in the league. When it gets to the point where you claim a multiple all star, someone respected by his peers of having no talent, that's when its time for me to move on to another topic. Silly beyond words.

For being the toughest cover in the league, just about every young SF shut Melo down pretty well this year - shockingly so. I can't think of who Melo "owned". Anyone? Maybe a rookie somewhere?

Melo might have a driver's license too with an excellent driving record. Or maybe a credit card with excellent credit. But he OWNS the past three season's records. And that in itself is a talent.

Yes, I contend he brings nothing to this team - nothing good.

If he stays, what kind of record will the Knicks have given all this talent?

You mean next year, his 15th year in the league? Dear god - he's old. He's had multiple surgeries the past three years. He's not supposed to be carrying a team anymore. Thank god for Phil's sake he can still pretend it's all Melo's fault. I don't know what he'll do when he can't. Probably lose 50 games for the 4th straight season and not address the media and take veiled shots at his players using Charley Rosen as his mouthpiece.

This is why blaming Melo is so sad - it's his 15th year. What basketball mind thinks he's actually capable of leading the Knicks to 50 wins? As if the only two options are building a team that relies completely on Melo to be superstar or trading him.

What complete horse**** that Melo owns the last three seasons records. He owns the half season he was out injured in 2014-15? F'n weak, indeed.

Must be nice for Phil that he didn't have to do anything worthwhile with two straight years of $30M in cap room, or get ANYTHING AT ALL back in trades for the Chandler, Shumpert, Smith, Felton, Hardaway, etc. Phil didn't have to anything at all. Because Melo OWNED the last three seasons. Dude, you are so delusional I know for a fact now that you work at MSG.

You conveniently ignore the fact that year after year the young players - plying without Melo on the floor - havre no problem executing the Triangle and playing fine defense as taught and advocated by the coaching staff and upper management.

The minute Melo gets on the floor everybody freezes like they're playing Simon Sez instead of basketball.

Yeah, its on Melo.

Does what you describe translate into wins??

IT WILL!!! Can't really judge this until Melo is gone and this team can focus from day one on TEAM BALL.

Knicks are a 20 win team minus Melo and Rose..I think that's why we're wanted Melo to sit in the gamethread so we really could tank..Do you now have amnesia?

I can gladly find your post in case you forgot..

Melo and Rose have the talent to win games by themselves. Duh. They are still capable of going on scoring sprees. Duh.

But as members of a team their flaws are such that they break the continuity of the team and don't elevate team members around them enough over the long haul. For me, both would be great 6th man types in the Jamal Crawford role.

Feel like it's you who has amnesia for asking questions like you just did.

holfresh wrote:

martin wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fwk00 wrote:
This is exactly correct. Words could never hurt or help a players talent value to a team. Melo is a well-known commodity and No one in the Knicks organization need say a word about his value.

Melo is a volume scorer based on volume possession. That's a good thing if that's what your team needs otherwise its not. He will not bring back very much in trade.

Melo was injured at the time, and trading him to a contender, mid season, would have been difficult enough. Having a legendary HOF coach publicly declaring that he doesn't like Melo's game, wasn't going to help garner interest with another team, and their fan base.

Say what you want, it sure as hell didn't help. Its why team presidents dont engage in this type of behavior. Once again, when all is said and done the buck stops with Phil Jackson, no matter how some of you try to change the subject.

At least admit that. Im more than willing to admit that Melo is a talented but flawed player. Its why I didn't want Melo back if it meant a max contract, and certainly not with a no trade clause. Its not an either or proposition.

Yes, the buck stops with Phil and Phil will help Melo pack.

But no, Melo is NOT A TALENTED player. He's NOT A FLAWED player. He's a free-loader.

A talented player will find a way to win, will adapt, will make the players around him mindful and better.

Tell me what Melo is talented at? Tapping his head?

And "flawed" implies there's a slight adjustment to be made that should have been made YEARS AGO but somehow is so mysterious no one can figure out why Melo can't understand a basketball system that requires defense.

Melo is a basketball albatross.

I guess he should give back that NCAA ring, the scoring title because he has no talent. You might believe his flaws outweighs what he brings to the table. But to suggest he brings nothing to the table is just plain silly.

Kobe and Paul Pierce said at one time that Melo was the toughest cover in the league. When it gets to the point where you claim a multiple all star, someone respected by his peers of having no talent, that's when its time for me to move on to another topic. Silly beyond words.

For being the toughest cover in the league, just about every young SF shut Melo down pretty well this year - shockingly so. I can't think of who Melo "owned". Anyone? Maybe a rookie somewhere?

Melo might have a driver's license too with an excellent driving record. Or maybe a credit card with excellent credit. But he OWNS the past three season's records. And that in itself is a talent.

Yes, I contend he brings nothing to this team - nothing good.

If he stays, what kind of record will the Knicks have given all this talent?

You mean next year, his 15th year in the league? Dear god - he's old. He's had multiple surgeries the past three years. He's not supposed to be carrying a team anymore. Thank god for Phil's sake he can still pretend it's all Melo's fault. I don't know what he'll do when he can't. Probably lose 50 games for the 4th straight season and not address the media and take veiled shots at his players using Charley Rosen as his mouthpiece.

This is why blaming Melo is so sad - it's his 15th year. What basketball mind thinks he's actually capable of leading the Knicks to 50 wins? As if the only two options are building a team that relies completely on Melo to be superstar or trading him.

What complete horse**** that Melo owns the last three seasons records. He owns the half season he was out injured in 2014-15? F'n weak, indeed.

Must be nice for Phil that he didn't have to do anything worthwhile with two straight years of $30M in cap room, or get ANYTHING AT ALL back in trades for the Chandler, Shumpert, Smith, Felton, Hardaway, etc. Phil didn't have to anything at all. Because Melo OWNED the last three seasons. Dude, you are so delusional I know for a fact now that you work at MSG.

You conveniently ignore the fact that year after year the young players - plying without Melo on the floor - havre no problem executing the Triangle and playing fine defense as taught and advocated by the coaching staff and upper management.

The minute Melo gets on the floor everybody freezes like they're playing Simon Sez instead of basketball.

Yeah, its on Melo.

Does what you describe translate into wins??

IT WILL!!! Can't really judge this until Melo is gone and this team can focus from day one on TEAM BALL.

Knicks are a 20 win team minus Melo and Rose..I think that's why we're wanted Melo to sit in the gamethread so we really could tank..Do you now have amnesia?

I can gladly find your post in case you forgot..

Melo and Rose have the talent to win games by themselves. Duh. They are still capable of going on scoring sprees. Duh.

But as members of a team their flaws are such that they break the continuity of the team and don't elevate team members around them enough over the long haul. For me, both would be great 6th man types in the Jamal Crawford role.

Feel like it's you who has amnesia for asking questions like you just did.

Both have led 50+ win teams multiple years...Melo 7 or 8 times..Who has amnesia?

They have. But that was like 5+ years ago and neither can do so today. What's you point?

They aren't playing team ball. They aren't making the players around them better. They aren't playing defense.

Once in a while they can explode for points.

martin wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fwk00 wrote:
This is exactly correct. Words could never hurt or help a players talent value to a team. Melo is a well-known commodity and No one in the Knicks organization need say a word about his value.

Melo is a volume scorer based on volume possession. That's a good thing if that's what your team needs otherwise its not. He will not bring back very much in trade.

Melo was injured at the time, and trading him to a contender, mid season, would have been difficult enough. Having a legendary HOF coach publicly declaring that he doesn't like Melo's game, wasn't going to help garner interest with another team, and their fan base.

Say what you want, it sure as hell didn't help. Its why team presidents dont engage in this type of behavior. Once again, when all is said and done the buck stops with Phil Jackson, no matter how some of you try to change the subject.

At least admit that. Im more than willing to admit that Melo is a talented but flawed player. Its why I didn't want Melo back if it meant a max contract, and certainly not with a no trade clause. Its not an either or proposition.

Yes, the buck stops with Phil and Phil will help Melo pack.

But no, Melo is NOT A TALENTED player. He's NOT A FLAWED player. He's a free-loader.

A talented player will find a way to win, will adapt, will make the players around him mindful and better.

Tell me what Melo is talented at? Tapping his head?

And "flawed" implies there's a slight adjustment to be made that should have been made YEARS AGO but somehow is so mysterious no one can figure out why Melo can't understand a basketball system that requires defense.

Melo is a basketball albatross.

I guess he should give back that NCAA ring, the scoring title because he has no talent. You might believe his flaws outweighs what he brings to the table. But to suggest he brings nothing to the table is just plain silly.

Kobe and Paul Pierce said at one time that Melo was the toughest cover in the league. When it gets to the point where you claim a multiple all star, someone respected by his peers of having no talent, that's when its time for me to move on to another topic. Silly beyond words.

For being the toughest cover in the league, just about every young SF shut Melo down pretty well this year - shockingly so. I can't think of who Melo "owned". Anyone? Maybe a rookie somewhere?

Melo might have a driver's license too with an excellent driving record. Or maybe a credit card with excellent credit. But he OWNS the past three season's records. And that in itself is a talent.

Yes, I contend he brings nothing to this team - nothing good.

If he stays, what kind of record will the Knicks have given all this talent?

You mean next year, his 15th year in the league? Dear god - he's old. He's had multiple surgeries the past three years. He's not supposed to be carrying a team anymore. Thank god for Phil's sake he can still pretend it's all Melo's fault. I don't know what he'll do when he can't. Probably lose 50 games for the 4th straight season and not address the media and take veiled shots at his players using Charley Rosen as his mouthpiece.

This is why blaming Melo is so sad - it's his 15th year. What basketball mind thinks he's actually capable of leading the Knicks to 50 wins? As if the only two options are building a team that relies completely on Melo to be superstar or trading him.

What complete horse**** that Melo owns the last three seasons records. He owns the half season he was out injured in 2014-15? F'n weak, indeed.

Must be nice for Phil that he didn't have to do anything worthwhile with two straight years of $30M in cap room, or get ANYTHING AT ALL back in trades for the Chandler, Shumpert, Smith, Felton, Hardaway, etc. Phil didn't have to anything at all. Because Melo OWNED the last three seasons. Dude, you are so delusional I know for a fact now that you work at MSG.

You conveniently ignore the fact that year after year the young players - plying without Melo on the floor - havre no problem executing the Triangle and playing fine defense as taught and advocated by the coaching staff and upper management.

The minute Melo gets on the floor everybody freezes like they're playing Simon Sez instead of basketball.

Yeah, its on Melo.

Does what you describe translate into wins??

IT WILL!!! Can't really judge this until Melo is gone and this team can focus from day one on TEAM BALL.

Knicks are a 20 win team minus Melo and Rose..I think that's why we're wanted Melo to sit in the gamethread so we really could tank..Do you now have amnesia?

I can gladly find your post in case you forgot..

Melo and Rose have the talent to win games by themselves. Duh. They are still capable of going on scoring sprees. Duh.

But as members of a team their flaws are such that they break the continuity of the team and don't elevate team members around them enough over the long haul. For me, both would be great 6th man types in the Jamal Crawford role.

Feel like it's you who has amnesia for asking questions like you just did.

phil is the biggest free loader in all of sports, he doesn't negotiate, he doesn't scout, he doesn't do sht except sit there and criticize everybody that doesn't run his system, even when he was sitting home he was taking shots at GSW for their 3 ball attack.. egotistical jerk.

They both would be great in another system, infact 90% of the roster would be great in another system, and culture

martin wrote:

holfresh wrote:

martin wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fwk00 wrote:
This is exactly correct. Words could never hurt or help a players talent value to a team. Melo is a well-known commodity and No one in the Knicks organization need say a word about his value.

Melo is a volume scorer based on volume possession. That's a good thing if that's what your team needs otherwise its not. He will not bring back very much in trade.

Melo was injured at the time, and trading him to a contender, mid season, would have been difficult enough. Having a legendary HOF coach publicly declaring that he doesn't like Melo's game, wasn't going to help garner interest with another team, and their fan base.

Say what you want, it sure as hell didn't help. Its why team presidents dont engage in this type of behavior. Once again, when all is said and done the buck stops with Phil Jackson, no matter how some of you try to change the subject.

At least admit that. Im more than willing to admit that Melo is a talented but flawed player. Its why I didn't want Melo back if it meant a max contract, and certainly not with a no trade clause. Its not an either or proposition.

Yes, the buck stops with Phil and Phil will help Melo pack.

But no, Melo is NOT A TALENTED player. He's NOT A FLAWED player. He's a free-loader.

A talented player will find a way to win, will adapt, will make the players around him mindful and better.

Tell me what Melo is talented at? Tapping his head?

And "flawed" implies there's a slight adjustment to be made that should have been made YEARS AGO but somehow is so mysterious no one can figure out why Melo can't understand a basketball system that requires defense.

Melo is a basketball albatross.

I guess he should give back that NCAA ring, the scoring title because he has no talent. You might believe his flaws outweighs what he brings to the table. But to suggest he brings nothing to the table is just plain silly.

Kobe and Paul Pierce said at one time that Melo was the toughest cover in the league. When it gets to the point where you claim a multiple all star, someone respected by his peers of having no talent, that's when its time for me to move on to another topic. Silly beyond words.

For being the toughest cover in the league, just about every young SF shut Melo down pretty well this year - shockingly so. I can't think of who Melo "owned". Anyone? Maybe a rookie somewhere?

Melo might have a driver's license too with an excellent driving record. Or maybe a credit card with excellent credit. But he OWNS the past three season's records. And that in itself is a talent.

Yes, I contend he brings nothing to this team - nothing good.

If he stays, what kind of record will the Knicks have given all this talent?

You mean next year, his 15th year in the league? Dear god - he's old. He's had multiple surgeries the past three years. He's not supposed to be carrying a team anymore. Thank god for Phil's sake he can still pretend it's all Melo's fault. I don't know what he'll do when he can't. Probably lose 50 games for the 4th straight season and not address the media and take veiled shots at his players using Charley Rosen as his mouthpiece.

This is why blaming Melo is so sad - it's his 15th year. What basketball mind thinks he's actually capable of leading the Knicks to 50 wins? As if the only two options are building a team that relies completely on Melo to be superstar or trading him.

What complete horse**** that Melo owns the last three seasons records. He owns the half season he was out injured in 2014-15? F'n weak, indeed.

Must be nice for Phil that he didn't have to do anything worthwhile with two straight years of $30M in cap room, or get ANYTHING AT ALL back in trades for the Chandler, Shumpert, Smith, Felton, Hardaway, etc. Phil didn't have to anything at all. Because Melo OWNED the last three seasons. Dude, you are so delusional I know for a fact now that you work at MSG.

You conveniently ignore the fact that year after year the young players - plying without Melo on the floor - havre no problem executing the Triangle and playing fine defense as taught and advocated by the coaching staff and upper management.

The minute Melo gets on the floor everybody freezes like they're playing Simon Sez instead of basketball.

Yeah, its on Melo.

Does what you describe translate into wins??

IT WILL!!! Can't really judge this until Melo is gone and this team can focus from day one on TEAM BALL.

Knicks are a 20 win team minus Melo and Rose..I think that's why we're wanted Melo to sit in the gamethread so we really could tank..Do you now have amnesia?

I can gladly find your post in case you forgot..

Melo and Rose have the talent to win games by themselves. Duh. They are still capable of going on scoring sprees. Duh.

But as members of a team their flaws are such that they break the continuity of the team and don't elevate team members around them enough over the long haul. For me, both would be great 6th man types in the Jamal Crawford role.

Feel like it's you who has amnesia for asking questions like you just did.

Both have led 50+ win teams multiple years...Melo 7 or 8 times..Who has amnesia?

They have. But that was like 5+ years ago and neither can do so today. What's you point?

They aren't playing team ball. They aren't making the players around them better. They aren't playing defense.

Once in a while they can explode for points.

The only DUH (IMHO) is thinking this group, without Melo, can stand up to NBA teams. Even in the weak East. Just don't think your vision translates to wins. But fair enough, it's yet to be seen. One thing....you make it sound as though we have gone through Melo the last 3 years? (Like Woodson did) The truth is Melo has been the one trying to adapt to Phil's game plan? But again, this argument can only be solved by seeing what will happen once Melo is gone. Think both sides are ready to find out.

nixluva wrote:Should we fear NOT having Melo!?? REALLY? What difference did it make having him the last few years? It's time to move on and build something real and lasting. Ultimately that is what Phil is doing. Some fans and the Media don't see it. The Media and former players now in the Media are prone to take sides against Phil and for the player like Melo. Doesn't mean they're right.

We need to finally try to build this right. Aside from a brief period in the 54 win season nothing has worked with Melo here in NY. Time to see what life is like Minus Melo or at least a reduced role for Melo. We've gotta build a complete team.

If Phil was trying to build something real and lasting, then he should NOT be investing big money in guys like Calderon, Lee, and injury prone players like Noah and Rose. They are the opposite of lasting since they have being declining for years. And then Phil trades the little young players we had in Shump, Hardaway and Grant. Now don’t get me wrong may be Phil and Dolan decide to go NOW into rebuilding mode but make no mistake, that was not the intent in the past.

KnicksFE wrote:

nixluva wrote:Should we fear NOT having Melo!?? REALLY? What difference did it make having him the last few years? It's time to move on and build something real and lasting. Ultimately that is what Phil is doing. Some fans and the Media don't see it. The Media and former players now in the Media are prone to take sides against Phil and for the player like Melo. Doesn't mean they're right.

We need to finally try to build this right. Aside from a brief period in the 54 win season nothing has worked with Melo here in NY. Time to see what life is like Minus Melo or at least a reduced role for Melo. We've gotta build a complete team.

If Phil was trying to build something real and lasting, then he should NOT be investing big money in guys like Calderon, Lee, and injury prone players like Noah and Rose. They are the opposite of lasting since they have being declining for years. And then Phil trades the little young players we had in Shump, Hardaway and Grant. Now don’t get me wrong may be Phil and Dolan decide to go NOW into rebuilding mode but make no mistake, that was not the intent in the past.

Nalod wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Nalod wrote:I tend to think more centric than extreme views on either Phil or Melo.

Melo did say he wanted to evolve and run the triangle. But he has not, or can't or it clashes with his scoring goals.
Phil did resign him. Thinking Melo, who is very talented could do this.

Both aspects did not materialize.

Circumstance happens.

You keep mentioning these scoring goals..I have never read that anywhere..Where are you getting this information from?

It might be a stretch but:

Melo likes NY over winning. The man seems content in NYC and not winning. Not to say he is lazy or a loser. He does not expand others games. he rejected MDA who is a pretty good offensive mind.
He won't adhere to any offense scheme that does not play to his strength. He has lead the league in scoring, and played well under Woodson who allowed Melo to do his thing! We experienced good success when melo was surrounded by a talented group, but it was an old group unsustainable to make a playoff run.

This:

http://www.espn.com/nba/history/leaders

7 of the 25 are without chips. But they are all in the HOF. He will be there first round. BTW, I am all for him staying and winning a chip with Knicks!!!!
I just don't see him doing what we need him to do.
BTW, I think we can win with Melo's talent on the court. He can pass and rebound. Its his movement without the ball and defense that is suspect.

Yeah it's a bit of a stretch...When it comes to Melo, I tend to expect anything tho...So it's in the wheelhouse...Melo probably doesn't like children too..

Melo could have been the most prolific corner three point shooter the NBA has ever seen under MDA...What has MDA ever won....NADA..He doesn't coach defense...

holfresh wrote:

Nalod wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Nalod wrote:I tend to think more centric than extreme views on either Phil or Melo.

Melo did say he wanted to evolve and run the triangle. But he has not, or can't or it clashes with his scoring goals.
Phil did resign him. Thinking Melo, who is very talented could do this.

Both aspects did not materialize.

Circumstance happens.

You keep mentioning these scoring goals..I have never read that anywhere..Where are you getting this information from?

It might be a stretch but:

Melo likes NY over winning. The man seems content in NYC and not winning. Not to say he is lazy or a loser. He does not expand others games. he rejected MDA who is a pretty good offensive mind.
He won't adhere to any offense scheme that does not play to his strength. He has lead the league in scoring, and played well under Woodson who allowed Melo to do his thing! We experienced good success when melo was surrounded by a talented group, but it was an old group unsustainable to make a playoff run.

This:

http://www.espn.com/nba/history/leaders

7 of the 25 are without chips. But they are all in the HOF. He will be there first round. BTW, I am all for him staying and winning a chip with Knicks!!!!
I just don't see him doing what we need him to do.
BTW, I think we can win with Melo's talent on the court. He can pass and rebound. Its his movement without the ball and defense that is suspect.

Yeah it's a bit of a stretch...When it comes to Melo, I tend to expect anything tho...So it's in the wheelhouse...Melo probably doesn't like children too..

Right, its all a stretch. Nalod doe not make shyt up. When has melo "sacrificed his game"? Why did Melo resign here?

4 months and can't win 2 in a row.. there's just now way you blame rose and melo for that