holfresh wrote:^^^^So how do we explain Melo's brand seemingly enhanced by the way he has handled Phil's bumblings??..You can hear it from basketball analyst after basketball analyst..I'll even venture to say Melo will be thought for a management post down the road...

And Dolan renames the building Melo Square Garden soon!

TripleThreat wrote:

holfresh wrote:^^^^So how do we explain Melo's brand seemingly enhanced by the way he has handled Phil's bumblings??..You can hear it from basketball analyst after basketball analyst..I'll even venture to say Melo will be thought for a management post down the road...

As the story goes, when David Stern heard about the Malice In The Palace, his legendary temper went through the roof, after he saw the ESPN analyst response to it, right after, apparently he went full blown livid. Here is was, former players, basically justifying the "code" by saying they understood where those players were coming from and "defending their family"

It was pathetic and completely out of touch. It made NBA players look like thugs and narcissists and divas and out of control. Not long after, Stern turned the screws on. Dress code, flagrant foul changes, more suspensions, more security, he did what "parents do", he treated children like children.

Lots of these analysts know if they say anything even remotely accountable level, that franchise, maybe the coach, maybe the players cut them off from interviews, giving info for the guys writing books, giving insider access, etc.

Of course many of them are going to kiss Melo's butt all the time. If you turned on an NBA game while STAT was at the end with the Knicks, you'd only hear positives about him.

Melo, along with STAT and Chris Paul, were socially obtuse enough to toast about a big three, in front of Paul's then franchise owner, at Paul's wedding, thinking Landry Fields could headline a package to get Paul into a close to capped out team.

Melo's an idiot. He has no charisma, he's an idiot. He says stupid thing after stupid thing in the press ( I hate Tom Brady, but I give him credit, he can handle the press well) and is only survived by having Leon Rose of CAA clean up after him. Melo has a "brand" not because of Melo, but because of David Stern and how Stern made NBA players so infinitely marketable in general.

People said great things about Zeke too, in public, to start, until the back end when he stopped playing and was in management, when it wouldn't cost them to criticize him, then it all came out how other player hated the dude.

Jackson is going after Melo where Melo can be hurt, in terms of public perception, because pathetically, this is something Melo cares more about than actually winning basketball games. Jackson is simply using what Bill Parcells has always used, the press as a weapon to push his players around.

It should say something that most NBA teams weren't lining up in droves to trade for Melo when it was clear the Knicks wanted to move him.

Jackson ruined Melo's trade value!

What would Melo's trade value be if Jackson said nothing at all? Still pretty horrible. And even with less leverage.

Yes, yes, let's pretend NBA players will turn down the most money and the most years from the Knicks, if the Knicks are their best playing time/winning time/money/years length option out there. Guys who can win and get paid aren't coming to the Knicks. They have better options. Some guys would rather take a little less to contend at the end of their careers. But are we going to pretend a guy who has no other FA options is going to turn down money and years from the Knicks because of something Jackson said in the press about Melo?

NEVER CARE ABOUT WHAT PEOPLE SAY, WATCH WHAT THEY DO

The guys at NBC talked up Tiki Barber, how he was such an amazing personality, how he'd succeed in TV as a broadcaster, how he'd be change how sports and mainstream TV could blend together, and on and on and on. But aside from the fluff, how did it break down? They give him the best talk show to run? His own movie? His own channel?

Bill Walton used to say how Shaq, at least 60 pounds overweight from Chalupas, was in such elite condition, even when Shaq would waddle up and down the court.

The NBA, like anything else, has a "marketplace" and that market does not care how you feel, or how I feel, or what Jackson says. Melo's trade value is rotten because of his age and how he plays and his clear self imposed limitations and that's it.

Jackson has underestimated Melo and seems like you have too...This isn't the 80s & 90s anymore...This isn't Phil's Jackson and Bill Parcell's media turf anymore, everyone has their own platform...The media used to go gaga at their one line utterances and put down of players they disdain...This isn't that scene anymore, it's a different World...Notice how Phil fumbled the two hits at Melo via former media intermediaries...I'm very interested to see how this ends...KP, who now has the juice card, took a shot a management in the now infamous "top to bottom" spiel, and drew no blow back...In fact, Breen and Clyde rushed to lay cover for him during the following broadcast, smoothing over his comments making them seem less abrasive...Phil is wounded, he won't get another gig after this and he doesn't need it...Clearly he doesn't have the same sway and pull he once had...

Melo's last year was huge for his brand...The Olympics, Soccer team in PR, outmaneuvering Phil in the press, Donald would say, Uge...Melo went into Brazil's poor neighborhoods during the Olympics while other athletes stayed away from the Country during the Zika scare...Melo bought a soccer team in Puerto Rico while everyone was fleeing the country during their bond/economic crisis...He showed up in Cuba too, with a special on VISE SPORTS after the sanctions were relaxed to promote his team and the Soccer League...The very public and publicized stance on the issues that affects Black Americans at the ESPYs and now handling Phil's missteps to land body blows on him...He has looked like the only adult in the room..Impressive year...Meanwhile Phil is playing the role of a recluse in the offices at MSG...So who is schmoozing and have their tentacles in the media again???

If I were Melo, I would go to the Clippers and play third fiddle to CP3 and Blake Griffin while trying to get them to the Finals...If they succeed, he will be golden..Phil would look like a complete stool...But that's just me...

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:I appreciate Melo as a player and his loyalty to the Knicks. I wish things had worked out better with him here. I thought Melo had turned the corner last year when he was passing at the highest rate of his career. He did not continue in that growth and this is what led Phil to lash out. Let's not forget this key fact!!!

Everyone is free to be angry with Phil for his failures as President but this is also a referendum on Melo. This season might still have been a failure but the Phil v Melo stuff is about MELO not doing the things he should as the highest paid player on the team and a Vet leader. Melo was praised last year for being DadMelo so why did he stop leading?

I can't excuse this and I don't blame Phil for calling Melo out.

It's funny because Melo is pretty much the same player he was when he came to the Knicks. He is an elite scorer. He has been called the toughest cover by his peers in the past. Now because Melo didn't change enough in year 14 of his career he is the bad guy? That just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Fourteen years in Melo's faults probably aren't changing much. They weren't changing much twelve years in when Phil gave him the NTC and the huge trade kicker. During the broadcast yesterday MJax and JVG brought up coaching continuity, roster continuity and roster construction. There has been no continuity with the roster and there have been 4 coaches in Phil's 3 plus years. JVG also brought up that he thought roster construction was much better when Woodson was coaching. Grunwald knew Melo's strengths and weaknesses and built a team around them. Phil gave Melo a contract that can't be traded and now is mad because Melo is playing like he has for his entire tenure in the nba. But it's on Melo. If you dont know what type of player Melo is after 12 years you are a fool. If you make that huge commitment and then continue to cobble together rosters that don't compliment Melo and aren't competitive in today's nba you should be let go or reassigned.

Melo needs to move on but Phil's roster construction, coaching hires, trades, and meddling are all on him. Both guys need to go but I believe Phil has his job for as long as he wants it.

Good post crush

I do think melo should have change his game a little to fit in better, just like all these centers in the league are now shooting 3's. I just think that Phil put a bunch of young d leaguers around melo, which was as dumb as it gets, because now your asking a top flight scorer to trust his teammates who have been super inconsistent in every imaginable way.

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:I appreciate Melo as a player and his loyalty to the Knicks. I wish things had worked out better with him here. I thought Melo had turned the corner last year when he was passing at the highest rate of his career. He did not continue in that growth and this is what led Phil to lash out. Let's not forget this key fact!!!

Everyone is free to be angry with Phil for his failures as President but this is also a referendum on Melo. This season might still have been a failure but the Phil v Melo stuff is about MELO not doing the things he should as the highest paid player on the team and a Vet leader. Melo was praised last year for being DadMelo so why did he stop leading?

I can't excuse this and I don't blame Phil for calling Melo out.

It's funny because Melo is pretty much the same player he was when he came to the Knicks. He is an elite scorer. He has been called the toughest cover by his peers in the past. Now because Melo didn't change enough in year 14 of his career he is the bad guy? That just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Fourteen years in Melo's faults probably aren't changing much. They weren't changing much twelve years in when Phil gave him the NTC and the huge trade kicker. During the broadcast yesterday MJax and JVG brought up coaching continuity, roster continuity and roster construction. There has been no continuity with the roster and there have been 4 coaches in Phil's 3 plus years. JVG also brought up that he thought roster construction was much better when Woodson was coaching. Grunwald knew Melo's strengths and weaknesses and built a team around them. Phil gave Melo a contract that can't be traded and now is mad because Melo is playing like he has for his entire tenure in the nba. But it's on Melo. If you dont know what type of player Melo is after 12 years you are a fool. If you make that huge commitment and then continue to cobble together rosters that don't compliment Melo and aren't competitive in today's nba you should be let go or reassigned.

Melo needs to move on but Phil's roster construction, coaching hires, trades, and meddling are all on him. Both guys need to go but I believe Phil has his job for as long as he wants it.

Good post crush

I do think melo should have change his game a little to fit in better, just like all these centers in the league are now shooting 3's. I just think that Phil put a bunch of young d leaguers around melo, which was as dumb as it gets, because now your asking a top flight scorer to trust his teammates who have been super inconsistent in every imaginable way.

Melo demonstrated he COULD CHANGE last year when he passed the ball more. His Assist % was 20.9 last year and only 14.1 this year. Melo could EASILY pass the ball more and it has nothing to do with teammates. This is all on Melo. STOP MAKING EXCUSES FOR MELO!!!

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:I appreciate Melo as a player and his loyalty to the Knicks. I wish things had worked out better with him here. I thought Melo had turned the corner last year when he was passing at the highest rate of his career. He did not continue in that growth and this is what led Phil to lash out. Let's not forget this key fact!!!

Everyone is free to be angry with Phil for his failures as President but this is also a referendum on Melo. This season might still have been a failure but the Phil v Melo stuff is about MELO not doing the things he should as the highest paid player on the team and a Vet leader. Melo was praised last year for being DadMelo so why did he stop leading?

I can't excuse this and I don't blame Phil for calling Melo out.

It's funny because Melo is pretty much the same player he was when he came to the Knicks. He is an elite scorer. He has been called the toughest cover by his peers in the past. Now because Melo didn't change enough in year 14 of his career he is the bad guy? That just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Fourteen years in Melo's faults probably aren't changing much. They weren't changing much twelve years in when Phil gave him the NTC and the huge trade kicker. During the broadcast yesterday MJax and JVG brought up coaching continuity, roster continuity and roster construction. There has been no continuity with the roster and there have been 4 coaches in Phil's 3 plus years. JVG also brought up that he thought roster construction was much better when Woodson was coaching. Grunwald knew Melo's strengths and weaknesses and built a team around them. Phil gave Melo a contract that can't be traded and now is mad because Melo is playing like he has for his entire tenure in the nba. But it's on Melo. If you dont know what type of player Melo is after 12 years you are a fool. If you make that huge commitment and then continue to cobble together rosters that don't compliment Melo and aren't competitive in today's nba you should be let go or reassigned.

Melo needs to move on but Phil's roster construction, coaching hires, trades, and meddling are all on him. Both guys need to go but I believe Phil has his job for as long as he wants it.

Good post crush

I do think melo should have change his game a little to fit in better, just like all these centers in the league are now shooting 3's. I just think that Phil put a bunch of young d leaguers around melo, which was as dumb as it gets, because now your asking a top flight scorer to trust his teammates who have been super inconsistent in every imaginable way.

Melo demonstrated he COULD CHANGE last year when he passed the ball more. His Assist % was 20.9 last year and only 14.1 this year. Melo could EASILY pass the ball more and it has nothing to do with teammates. This is all on Melo. STOP MAKING EXCUSES FOR MELO!!!

Why not look at the dynamics of everything..

Last yr Melo ran point fwd for the most part, He had was getting at least 2 assist from lopez, who always rolled to the baskets on PnR, unlike KP who ventures 30 ft from the basket for a low percentage shot. You notice how willy (who roles to the basket) has received pin point passes from melo in a High Pnr.

No one on the bench is shooting above 40%, and no in the starting line is shooting above avg except rose.... so the trust just ain't there, not to mention that one game we will run a lot of PNR, the next will run JH's version of the triangle, and the next game we're full triangle, and this has been going all season long.

Were are only scoring more points this yr, because we are taking more FT's, we have more penetrator's. Other than that the offense still is a ball of confusion every other game..

knicks1248 wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:The amount of speculation and conjecture people are willing to go to so they can make Melo look good is mindboggling. I mean these guys are putting the fan into fantasy everyday. How to suspend reality and go into Alt-Melo universe. They would make Jonatgan Livingstone Seagull jealous.

The team is brutally bad with or without melo. That's pretty much the bottom line. I don't understand why you haven't figure that part out yet

Melo accounts for 26% of our ENTIRE salary cap and Rose for another 22.7. That's half of the NBA salary cap for those two. Anybody who think they can evaluate how this team will perform without those two by ignoring that we can get half the NBA cap worth of professional basketball players added to the team isn't dealing with a full deck.

meloshouldgo wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:The amount of speculation and conjecture people are willing to go to so they can make Melo look good is mindboggling. I mean these guys are putting the fan into fantasy everyday. How to suspend reality and go into Alt-Melo universe. They would make Jonatgan Livingstone Seagull jealous.

The team is brutally bad with or without melo. That's pretty much the bottom line. I don't understand why you haven't figure that part out yet

Melo accounts for 26% of our ENTIRE salary cap

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:I appreciate Melo as a player and his loyalty to the Knicks. I wish things had worked out better with him here. I thought Melo had turned the corner last year when he was passing at the highest rate of his career. He did not continue in that growth and this is what led Phil to lash out. Let's not forget this key fact!!!

Everyone is free to be angry with Phil for his failures as President but this is also a referendum on Melo. This season might still have been a failure but the Phil v Melo stuff is about MELO not doing the things he should as the highest paid player on the team and a Vet leader. Melo was praised last year for being DadMelo so why did he stop leading?

I can't excuse this and I don't blame Phil for calling Melo out.

It's funny because Melo is pretty much the same player he was when he came to the Knicks. He is an elite scorer. He has been called the toughest cover by his peers in the past. Now because Melo didn't change enough in year 14 of his career he is the bad guy? That just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Fourteen years in Melo's faults probably aren't changing much. They weren't changing much twelve years in when Phil gave him the NTC and the huge trade kicker. During the broadcast yesterday MJax and JVG brought up coaching continuity, roster continuity and roster construction. There has been no continuity with the roster and there have been 4 coaches in Phil's 3 plus years. JVG also brought up that he thought roster construction was much better when Woodson was coaching. Grunwald knew Melo's strengths and weaknesses and built a team around them. Phil gave Melo a contract that can't be traded and now is mad because Melo is playing like he has for his entire tenure in the nba. But it's on Melo. If you dont know what type of player Melo is after 12 years you are a fool. If you make that huge commitment and then continue to cobble together rosters that don't compliment Melo and aren't competitive in today's nba you should be let go or reassigned.

Melo needs to move on but Phil's roster construction, coaching hires, trades, and meddling are all on him. Both guys need to go but I believe Phil has his job for as long as he wants it.

Good post crush

I do think melo should have change his game a little to fit in better, just like all these centers in the league are now shooting 3's. I just think that Phil put a bunch of young d leaguers around melo, which was as dumb as it gets, because now your asking a top flight scorer to trust his teammates who have been super inconsistent in every imaginable way.

Melo demonstrated he COULD CHANGE last year when he passed the ball more. His Assist % was 20.9 last year and only 14.1 this year. Melo could EASILY pass the ball more and it has nothing to do with teammates. This is all on Melo. STOP MAKING EXCUSES FOR MELO!!!

Why not look at the dynamics of everything..

Last yr Melo ran point fwd for the most part, He had was getting at least 2 assist from lopez, who always rolled to the baskets on PnR, unlike KP who ventures 30 ft from the basket for a low percentage shot. You notice how willy (who roles to the basket) has received pin point passes from melo in a High Pnr.

No one on the bench is shooting above 40%, and no in the starting line is shooting above avg except rose.... so the trust just ain't there, not to mention that one game we will run a lot of PNR, the next will run JH's version of the triangle, and the next game we're full triangle, and this has been going all season long.

Were are only scoring more points this yr, because we are taking more FT's, we have more penetrator's. Other than that the offense still is a ball of confusion every other game..

Man I just can't believe the extent you guys are going to excuse Melo's regression as a leader and on the floor. There has been more than enough opportunity to PASS THE BALL in the flow of the offense by Melo!

This isn't about Melo not trusting his teammates!!! I mean come on!!! He doesn't trust Rose, CLee or KP??? Sure guys miss shots but that is not why Melo stopped passing like he was last year.

The offense is NOT a ball of confusion is you execute but Melo and Rose break the offense!!! There is no excuse for the lack of passing from the 2 players that have the most talent, experience and touches every game. If Melo was purely a Catch and Shoot player I could understand but he holds the ball on most possessions. This draws defensive attention and Melo has multiple options on every play if he chose to explore it.

OK..All this fake outrage to support your anti-Melo rhetoric...We can look at these stats on your level..Melo has a 29% USG with a 14% ast.% and KP 24% USG with a 7% ast.%...But I'm sure the latter doesn't concern you one bit..

Look it up...ast.% is usually consistent for a player's career..So don't tell me about being a young player..

You really can't compare KP and Melo in how they are used in the offense. KP is only just beginning to learn how to properly post up and most of his offense is Catch and Shoot. KP holds the ball for less than 2 seconds 69% of his touches. He holds the ball for 6 or more Seconds only 1.5%. Melo holds the ball for 2-6 seconds 43.2% and 6 or more second 14.8%. And guess when Melo is MOST efficient?? When he holds the for for less than 2 seconds!!!

TOUCH TIME RANGE	GP	G	FREQ	FGM	FGA	FG%	EFG%
Touch < 2 Seconds	71	71	42.0%	3.6	7.9	45.9	56.0
Touch 2-6 Seconds	71	70	43.2%	3.3	8.1	41.2	43.4
Touch 6+ Seconds	71	68	14.8%	1.2	2.8	43.7	45.9

http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2546/shots-dash/

Let's not try and twist this so that it makes Melo look better by trashing KP!!! That my friend is BULLSHYTE!!!

STOP MAKING EXCUSES FOR MELO!!! This dude could have done a better job of leading the team by example simply by passing more, holding it less and giving more effort on D. If Melo had done these EASY things no one would be able to blame him for anything. Phil got on him for these very reasons and he was right.

Hey nix, what was Melo's assist percentage during the 54 win 2012-13 season? I already know, but I can't wait to hear your spin.

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:I appreciate Melo as a player and his loyalty to the Knicks. I wish things had worked out better with him here. I thought Melo had turned the corner last year when he was passing at the highest rate of his career. He did not continue in that growth and this is what led Phil to lash out. Let's not forget this key fact!!!

Everyone is free to be angry with Phil for his failures as President but this is also a referendum on Melo. This season might still have been a failure but the Phil v Melo stuff is about MELO not doing the things he should as the highest paid player on the team and a Vet leader. Melo was praised last year for being DadMelo so why did he stop leading?

I can't excuse this and I don't blame Phil for calling Melo out.

It's funny because Melo is pretty much the same player he was when he came to the Knicks. He is an elite scorer. He has been called the toughest cover by his peers in the past. Now because Melo didn't change enough in year 14 of his career he is the bad guy? That just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Fourteen years in Melo's faults probably aren't changing much. They weren't changing much twelve years in when Phil gave him the NTC and the huge trade kicker. During the broadcast yesterday MJax and JVG brought up coaching continuity, roster continuity and roster construction. There has been no continuity with the roster and there have been 4 coaches in Phil's 3 plus years. JVG also brought up that he thought roster construction was much better when Woodson was coaching. Grunwald knew Melo's strengths and weaknesses and built a team around them. Phil gave Melo a contract that can't be traded and now is mad because Melo is playing like he has for his entire tenure in the nba. But it's on Melo. If you dont know what type of player Melo is after 12 years you are a fool. If you make that huge commitment and then continue to cobble together rosters that don't compliment Melo and aren't competitive in today's nba you should be let go or reassigned.

Melo needs to move on but Phil's roster construction, coaching hires, trades, and meddling are all on him. Both guys need to go but I believe Phil has his job for as long as he wants it.

Good post crush

I do think melo should have change his game a little to fit in better, just like all these centers in the league are now shooting 3's. I just think that Phil put a bunch of young d leaguers around melo, which was as dumb as it gets, because now your asking a top flight scorer to trust his teammates who have been super inconsistent in every imaginable way.

Melo demonstrated he COULD CHANGE last year when he passed the ball more. His Assist % was 20.9 last year and only 14.1 this year. Melo could EASILY pass the ball more and it has nothing to do with teammates. This is all on Melo. STOP MAKING EXCUSES FOR MELO!!!

Why not look at the dynamics of everything..

Last yr Melo ran point fwd for the most part, He had was getting at least 2 assist from lopez, who always rolled to the baskets on PnR, unlike KP who ventures 30 ft from the basket for a low percentage shot. You notice how willy (who roles to the basket) has received pin point passes from melo in a High Pnr.

No one on the bench is shooting above 40%, and no in the starting line is shooting above avg except rose.... so the trust just ain't there, not to mention that one game we will run a lot of PNR, the next will run JH's version of the triangle, and the next game we're full triangle, and this has been going all season long.

Were are only scoring more points this yr, because we are taking more FT's, we have more penetrator's. Other than that the offense still is a ball of confusion every other game..

Man I just can't believe the extent you guys are going to excuse Melo's regression as a leader and on the floor. There has been more than enough opportunity to PASS THE BALL in the flow of the offense by Melo!

This isn't about Melo not trusting his teammates!!! I mean come on!!! He doesn't trust Rose, CLee or KP??? Sure guys miss shots but that is not why Melo stopped passing like he was last year.

The offense is NOT a ball of confusion is you execute but Melo and Rose break the offense!!! There is no excuse for the lack of passing from the 2 players that have the most talent, experience and touches every game. If Melo was purely a Catch and Shoot player I could understand but he holds the ball on most possessions. This draws defensive attention and Melo has multiple options on every play if he chose to explore it.

OK..All this fake outrage to support your anti-Melo rhetoric...We can look at these stats on your level..Melo has a 29% USG with a 14% ast.% and KP 24% USG with a 7% ast.%...But I'm sure the latter doesn't concern you one bit..

Look it up...ast.% is usually consistent for a player's career..So don't tell me about being a young player..

You really can't compare KP and Melo in how they are used in the offense. KP is only just beginning to learn how to properly post up and most of his offense is Catch and Shoot. KP holds the ball for less than 2 seconds 69% of his touches. He holds the ball for 6 or more Seconds only 1.5%. Melo holds the ball for 2-6 seconds 43.2% and 6 or more second 14.8%. And guess when Melo is MOST efficient?? When he holds the for for less than 2 seconds!!!

TOUCH TIME RANGE	GP	G	FREQ	FGM	FGA	FG%	EFG%
Touch < 2 Seconds	71	71	42.0%	3.6	7.9	45.9	56.0
Touch 2-6 Seconds	71	70	43.2%	3.3	8.1	41.2	43.4
Touch 6+ Seconds	71	68	14.8%	1.2	2.8	43.7	45.9

http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2546/shots-dash/

Let's not try and twist this so that it makes Melo look better by trashing KP!!! That my friend is BULLSHYTE!!!

STOP MAKING EXCUSES FOR MELO!!! This dude could have done a better job of leading the team by example simply by passing more, holding it less and giving more effort on D. If Melo had done these EASY things no one would be able to blame him for anything. Phil got on him for these very reasons and he was right.

My point is that you feel your job is to provide cover for who ever is in charge..It Phil's turn..Phil is full of shet..He just needs to be a man and own up to his missteps..It's seems it too much to ask..Then here you come providing cover, lame...

I'm not trying to bash KP, I just want to point out your double standards..Lame..