nixluva wrote:This is a really nice article on Randle with short video clips.

https://elitesportsny.com/2017/03/08/new-york-knicks-closer-look-chasson-randles-coming-party/

can we get tony wroten back too :)
just playing but that would be one energetic backcourt. ron ron doesn't look very enthusiastic and doesn't inspire his teammates. read my siggy.

Cartman718 wrote:

nixluva wrote:This is a really nice article on Randle with short video clips.

https://elitesportsny.com/2017/03/08/new-york-knicks-closer-look-chasson-randles-coming-party/

can we get tony wroten back too :)
just playing but that would be one energetic backcourt. ron ron doesn't look very enthusiastic and doesn't inspire his teammates. read my siggy.

Who is Ron Ron? Are you talking about Ron Baker? I think Ron is fine as a tough reserve guard. He's had far less experience as a PG and still he does help this team when he's on the floor. He's got to gain more confidence and fix his shot. He's a capable scorer so I suspect he'll get that going with more work. Still we are talking about a UDFA role player. Besides his teammates love him.

“The triangle itself is just a name. Some of the actions you get out of the triangle, you see in other offenses,” Randle said. “Two-man game where you get a triangle on the side. Cut off the post, things like that. I think there are similarities with other systems.”

We need more players like him and Ron Baker and fewer players like Rose.

nixluva wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

nixluva wrote:This is a really nice article on Randle with short video clips.

https://elitesportsny.com/2017/03/08/new-york-knicks-closer-look-chasson-randles-coming-party/

can we get tony wroten back too :)
just playing but that would be one energetic backcourt. ron ron doesn't look very enthusiastic and doesn't inspire his teammates. read my siggy.

Who is Ron Ron? Are you talking about Ron Baker? I think Ron is fine as a tough reserve guard. He's had far less experience as a PG and still he does help this team when he's on the floor. He's got to gain more confidence and fix his shot. He's a capable scorer so I suspect he'll get that going with more work. Still we are talking about a UDFA role player. Besides his teammates love him.

Ron Ron is your second cousin's nephew's half brother. Ron Baker does not belong in the NBA...only his defense does. His offense and shot making is just about as bad as Jerian Grant's...who in my opinion still doesn't belong in NBA.

Yes his teammates love him and thats why we should keep him (sarcasm).

nixluva wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

nixluva wrote:This is a really nice article on Randle with short video clips.

https://elitesportsny.com/2017/03/08/new-york-knicks-closer-look-chasson-randles-coming-party/

can we get tony wroten back too :)
just playing but that would be one energetic backcourt. ron ron doesn't look very enthusiastic and doesn't inspire his teammates. read my siggy.

Who is Ron Ron? Are you talking about Ron Baker? I think Ron is fine as a tough reserve guard. He's had far less experience as a PG and still he does help this team when he's on the floor. He's got to gain more confidence and fix his shot. He's a capable scorer so I suspect he'll get that going with more work. Still we are talking about a UDFA role player. Besides his teammates love him.

Ron Ron is your second cousin's nephew's half brother. Ron Baker does not belong in the NBA...only his defense does. His offense and shot making is just about as bad as Jerian Grant's...who in my opinion still doesn't belong in NBA.

Yes his teammates love him and thats why we should keep him (sarcasm).

We're talking about a rookie who wasn't drafted. I think the Knicks want to continue to develop him and aren't taking a shortsighted view of him. Teams actually do invest time in prospects and I see no reason they can't do that with Baker. They know he's more than capable of getting his shot going. It's not like he can't shoot at all.

Cartman718 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

nixluva wrote:This is a really nice article on Randle with short video clips.

https://elitesportsny.com/2017/03/08/new-york-knicks-closer-look-chasson-randles-coming-party/

can we get tony wroten back too :)
just playing but that would be one energetic backcourt. ron ron doesn't look very enthusiastic and doesn't inspire his teammates. read my siggy.

Who is Ron Ron? Are you talking about Ron Baker? I think Ron is fine as a tough reserve guard. He's had far less experience as a PG and still he does help this team when he's on the floor. He's got to gain more confidence and fix his shot. He's a capable scorer so I suspect he'll get that going with more work. Still we are talking about a UDFA role player. Besides his teammates love him.

Ron Ron is your second cousin's nephew's half brother. Ron Baker does not belong in the NBA...only his defense does. His offense and shot making is just about as bad as Jerian Grant's...who in my opinion still doesn't belong in NBA.

Yes his teammates love him and thats why we should keep him (sarcasm).

I don't get this statement. Most PGs - starting PGs - can't stay in front of their man, and yet we have seen Ron do this on more than one occasion. He fights over picks, he kinda sorta stayed in front of Steph Curry quite nicely throughout the GS game. Baker doesn't shut anyone down but he is a tough defender, sets very nice picks, helps out, screens, get steals, moves the ball, makes some nice passes.... and we don't want him on the team? Send him to the D-League cause he doesn't shoot well enough? We don't like guys because they JUST play defense?

What is this about?

martin wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

nixluva wrote:This is a really nice article on Randle with short video clips.

https://elitesportsny.com/2017/03/08/new-york-knicks-closer-look-chasson-randles-coming-party/

can we get tony wroten back too :)
just playing but that would be one energetic backcourt. ron ron doesn't look very enthusiastic and doesn't inspire his teammates. read my siggy.

Who is Ron Ron? Are you talking about Ron Baker? I think Ron is fine as a tough reserve guard. He's had far less experience as a PG and still he does help this team when he's on the floor. He's got to gain more confidence and fix his shot. He's a capable scorer so I suspect he'll get that going with more work. Still we are talking about a UDFA role player. Besides his teammates love him.

Ron Ron is your second cousin's nephew's half brother. Ron Baker does not belong in the NBA...only his defense does. His offense and shot making is just about as bad as Jerian Grant's...who in my opinion still doesn't belong in NBA.

Yes his teammates love him and thats why we should keep him (sarcasm).

I don't get this statement. Most PGs - starting PGs - can't stay in front of their man, and yet we have seen Ron do this on more than one occasion. He fights over picks, he kinda sorta stayed in front of Steph Curry quite nicely throughout the GS game. Baker doesn't shut anyone down but he is a tough defender, sets very nice picks, helps out, screens, get steals, moves the ball, makes some nice passes.... and we don't want him on the team? Send him to the D-League cause he doesn't shoot well enough? We don't like guys because they JUST play defense?

What is this about?

justin holiday came in with the same rep (defensive guy) and over the course of the season has shown he can shoot too.

nixluva wrote:Just so we're clear here, Baker has offensive ability. He's trying to adjust to the NBA level as a PG which he hasn't technically been.

i can probably show you similar youtube videos for ANY undrafted players who now play in the NBA.
but listen to your own above statement...about adjustment. sounds like he needs more time...in the d-league.

nixluva wrote:Just so we're clear here, Baker has offensive ability. He's trying to adjust to the NBA level as a PG which he hasn't technically been. He's learned the Triangle fairly quickly and if his shots were dropping as they should he'd be doing great. Baker is long for his height and tho he's not explosive he is strong. He does just about everything at a good level and shooting was NEVER his problem.

Shooting Guard
Wichita State, Sr., 23
6'4, 220 pounds
6'9.75 wingspan, 35.5'' max vert

2015-16 Statistics: 14.0 PPG, 4.8 RPG, 3.2 APG, 1.5 SPG, 0.6 BPG, 1.6 TOPG, 42.4% FG, 79.3% FT, 35.0% 3P

Summary: Ron Baker is a solid outside shooter with a high basketball IQ. He went from a virtually unknown walk-on to one of the best college players in the country in just a few short years. The biggest turn-off for NBA teams will be his age; at 23, Baker is one of the oldest players in the draft. For reference, Baker is three months older than Wizards guard Bradley Beal, who is about to enter his fifth NBA season. In an era where NBA teams tend to target 18-20 year-olds who they can develop for the first few years of their career, Baker's age definitely does not do him any favors.

Offensive Breakdown: He does everything well, but does not have any singular standout skill that jumps off the page. His greatest strength is his ability to knock down mid- to long-range jump shots. Baker is also a solid distributor with one of the lowest turnover rates of any guard in the nation throughout his career. If he can continue to improve his three-point shooting, he could potentially find a role as an instant offense guy coming off the bench for an NBA team.

Defensive Breakdown: Baker was a decent on-ball defender in college, but that should be taken with a grain of salt when you compare the talent levels of the Missouri Valley to the players he will be asked to guard in the NBA. He is undersized for a shooting guard, and he will often give up 4-6 inches on opposing shooting guards. He also doesn't have great lateral quickness by NBA guard standards.

http://www.midmajormadness.com/2016/6/21/11980794/nba-draft-2016-scouting-report-ron-baker-wichita-state-shockers

Turns out Baker has more than enough lateral quickness for the NBA!!! So once his shot comes around as it should he's going to be a very nice player for this team off the bench. The Knicks aren't worried that somehow Baker has lost the ability to shoot!

nixluva wrote:

fishmike wrote:

nixluva wrote:Just so we're clear here, Baker has offensive ability. He's trying to adjust to the NBA level as a PG which he hasn't technically been. He's learned the Triangle fairly quickly and if his shots were dropping as they should he'd be doing great. Baker is long for his height and tho he's not explosive he is strong. He does just about everything at a good level and shooting was NEVER his problem.

Shooting Guard
Wichita State, Sr., 23
6'4, 220 pounds
6'9.75 wingspan, 35.5'' max vert

2015-16 Statistics: 14.0 PPG, 4.8 RPG, 3.2 APG, 1.5 SPG, 0.6 BPG, 1.6 TOPG, 42.4% FG, 79.3% FT, 35.0% 3P

Summary: Ron Baker is a solid outside shooter with a high basketball IQ. He went from a virtually unknown walk-on to one of the best college players in the country in just a few short years. The biggest turn-off for NBA teams will be his age; at 23, Baker is one of the oldest players in the draft. For reference, Baker is three months older than Wizards guard Bradley Beal, who is about to enter his fifth NBA season. In an era where NBA teams tend to target 18-20 year-olds who they can develop for the first few years of their career, Baker's age definitely does not do him any favors.

Offensive Breakdown: He does everything well, but does not have any singular standout skill that jumps off the page. His greatest strength is his ability to knock down mid- to long-range jump shots. Baker is also a solid distributor with one of the lowest turnover rates of any guard in the nation throughout his career. If he can continue to improve his three-point shooting, he could potentially find a role as an instant offense guy coming off the bench for an NBA team.

Defensive Breakdown: Baker was a decent on-ball defender in college, but that should be taken with a grain of salt when you compare the talent levels of the Missouri Valley to the players he will be asked to guard in the NBA. He is undersized for a shooting guard, and he will often give up 4-6 inches on opposing shooting guards. He also doesn't have great lateral quickness by NBA guard standards.

http://www.midmajormadness.com/2016/6/21/11980794/nba-draft-2016-scouting-report-ron-baker-wichita-state-shockers

Turns out Baker has more than enough lateral quickness for the NBA!!! So once his shot comes around as it should he's going to be a very nice player for this team off the bench. The Knicks aren't worried that somehow Baker has lost the ability to shoot!

This is fluff. Baker last 2 years in college he was a 42% shooter. There has never been anything about him that says he's a good offensive player. He was utterly average at the college level and well below at the NBA level. Baker certainly does not "do everything well" on offense. He's high effort and low skill. I get he is likable, but he's an undrafted rookie with a well below average NBA skill set. His numbers seem to back that up.

I disagree

Year	League	Team	        GP  Min	 Pts	FG	FGA	FG%	2Pt	2PtA	2P%	3Pt	3PtA	3P%	FTM	FTA	FT%	
2012/13	NCAA	Wichita St	18  26.1 8.7	2.5	6.3	39.8	0.8	1.6	51.7	1.7	4.7	35.7	2.1	2.5	82.2	
2013/14	NCAA	Wichita St	35  30.0 13.0	4.0	8.9	44.7	2.1	3.9	54.1	1.9	5.0	37.5	3.2	3.7	84.7	
2014/15	NCAA	Wichita St	34  33.0 14.6	4.9	11.4	42.7	2.6	5.4	48.6	2.2	6.0	37.4	2.7	3.6	76.0	
2015/16	NCAA	Wichita St	34  31.6 13.8	4.5	10.7	42.3	2.7	5.5	49.5	1.8	5.2	34.8	2.9	3.7	78.4
Season	School	Conf	ORtg	DRtg
2012-13	Wichita State	121.3	99.5
2013-14	Wichita State	125.2	92.7
2014-15	Wichita State	123.3	92.7
2015-16	Wichita State	116.0	87.9
Career	Wichita State	121.3	92.1

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/ron-baker-1.html

nixluva wrote:

fishmike wrote:

nixluva wrote:

fishmike wrote:

nixluva wrote:Just so we're clear here, Baker has offensive ability. He's trying to adjust to the NBA level as a PG which he hasn't technically been. He's learned the Triangle fairly quickly and if his shots were dropping as they should he'd be doing great. Baker is long for his height and tho he's not explosive he is strong. He does just about everything at a good level and shooting was NEVER his problem.

Shooting Guard
Wichita State, Sr., 23
6'4, 220 pounds
6'9.75 wingspan, 35.5'' max vert

2015-16 Statistics: 14.0 PPG, 4.8 RPG, 3.2 APG, 1.5 SPG, 0.6 BPG, 1.6 TOPG, 42.4% FG, 79.3% FT, 35.0% 3P

Summary: Ron Baker is a solid outside shooter with a high basketball IQ. He went from a virtually unknown walk-on to one of the best college players in the country in just a few short years. The biggest turn-off for NBA teams will be his age; at 23, Baker is one of the oldest players in the draft. For reference, Baker is three months older than Wizards guard Bradley Beal, who is about to enter his fifth NBA season. In an era where NBA teams tend to target 18-20 year-olds who they can develop for the first few years of their career, Baker's age definitely does not do him any favors.

Offensive Breakdown: He does everything well, but does not have any singular standout skill that jumps off the page. His greatest strength is his ability to knock down mid- to long-range jump shots. Baker is also a solid distributor with one of the lowest turnover rates of any guard in the nation throughout his career. If he can continue to improve his three-point shooting, he could potentially find a role as an instant offense guy coming off the bench for an NBA team.

Defensive Breakdown: Baker was a decent on-ball defender in college, but that should be taken with a grain of salt when you compare the talent levels of the Missouri Valley to the players he will be asked to guard in the NBA. He is undersized for a shooting guard, and he will often give up 4-6 inches on opposing shooting guards. He also doesn't have great lateral quickness by NBA guard standards.

http://www.midmajormadness.com/2016/6/21/11980794/nba-draft-2016-scouting-report-ron-baker-wichita-state-shockers

Turns out Baker has more than enough lateral quickness for the NBA!!! So once his shot comes around as it should he's going to be a very nice player for this team off the bench. The Knicks aren't worried that somehow Baker has lost the ability to shoot!

This is fluff. Baker last 2 years in college he was a 42% shooter. There has never been anything about him that says he's a good offensive player. He was utterly average at the college level and well below at the NBA level. Baker certainly does not "do everything well" on offense. He's high effort and low skill. I get he is likable, but he's an undrafted rookie with a well below average NBA skill set. His numbers seem to back that up.

I disagree

Year	League	Team	        GP  Min	 Pts	FG	FGA	FG%	2Pt	2PtA	2P%	3Pt	3PtA	3P%	FTM	FTA	FT%	
2012/13	NCAA	Wichita St	18  26.1 8.7	2.5	6.3	39.8	0.8	1.6	51.7	1.7	4.7	35.7	2.1	2.5	82.2	
2013/14	NCAA	Wichita St	35  30.0 13.0	4.0	8.9	44.7	2.1	3.9	54.1	1.9	5.0	37.5	3.2	3.7	84.7	
2014/15	NCAA	Wichita St	34  33.0 14.6	4.9	11.4	42.7	2.6	5.4	48.6	2.2	6.0	37.4	2.7	3.6	76.0	
2015/16	NCAA	Wichita St	34  31.6 13.8	4.5	10.7	42.3	2.7	5.5	49.5	1.8	5.2	34.8	2.9	3.7	78.4
Season	School	Conf	ORtg	DRtg
2012-13	Wichita State	121.3	99.5
2013-14	Wichita State	125.2	92.7
2014-15	Wichita State	123.3	92.7
2015-16	Wichita State	116.0	87.9
Career	Wichita State	121.3	92.1

what did you just show me? That Baker's shooting dropped for 3 years in a row in college?

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/ron-baker-1.html

You seem to miss the point. Good defender. Decent shooter. Now I'm not saying he is some star but he certainly can be a solid reserve guard and he CAN shoot better than he has this year. No one should expect Baker to light the world on fire but he deserves more than the small sample he's had so far to just assume he won't get his offense going.

IMO Baker is a guy who could be like Dellvadova. Teams can use those kinds of players that give MAX EFFORT and play TEAM BALL. Time will tell what he does at this level.

What would it take for Baker to be an effective rotation player? He's either got to shoot much better or facilitate much better. Which one of those that we havent seen in a few years is going to pop now that he's in the NBA?

I applaud Phil for looking at this talent pool. I will be thrilled to be wrong about Baker, but your argument that he's good isnt based on anything that has actually happened in this reality. He actually had some buzz after his sophomore season and did nothing to stand out or help himself as senior classman. I like that we are looking at guys like Baker instead of guys like Moochie Norris, but lets keep it in perspective.