Uptown wrote:

Chandler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Melo did say something that was right on today.

Melo has to deal with the media every day--drama whatever maybe BSing for Phil etc... Phil doesnt do anything with the media-so its all on Melo there and thats true.

It's true, but it's also the same with every other team in the league- how often do you see their team presidents giving interviews? The media manufacture drama to get attention on their articles. A drama or a crisis will push interest and sales. Melo new what he was signing up for.

Earlier this season and last the media (and people on this board) said Phil needed to shut up (on twitter and on interviews), they said he undermined his coaches and players by speaking etc etc. Now they're blasting him for not speaking. And when he does give the occasional interview they blast him for whatever he says (the minor comments about Melo, the posse comment, etc).

All the good and talented beat reporters have moved on, been promoted etc. All we are left with are the bitter bums who know this is their last gig- they are awful, I don't blame Phil for not talking to them.

I'm in this boat

There is a big difference IMO between Phil's passive aggressive tweets, comments towards players, and being out front when your starting PG goes AWOL. Being out front when one of your buddies writes a nasty article about your star, and that player has to track you down to find out what the deal is.

Sure I would prefer that Phil kept quiet when it comes to tweets and articles dissing players, but that doesn't mean I want to see him do it through one of his friends (Charley Rosen) instead. Phil has to strike the right balance, has yet to do that IMO.

Did Rosen say anything shocking about Melo? He has said exactly what we all have said for a long while now. Why is this shocking and why did it have to come thru Phil? A TON of other writers have said the same thing - that melo is a 1-dementional playler who doesn't play D and is losing his legs. Does is somehow carry more weight with Rosen?

This... Was this part of the Phil's chronicles? Or is Melo simply failing the eye test? It does carry more weight with Rosen because he's Phil mouthpiece. Maybe not this time he wasnt but everyone knows the connection so its understandable that the questions are going to be asked. The PROBLEM with the questions arent regarding Rosen/Phil, the problem is that Melo is a one dimensional scorer who is losing his legs and his team's losses are mounting. I mean what is more important? Melo's ego of the Knicks?

agreed. Have people actually read Rosen's piece? it's on fanrag, and it's not a hatchet job. If he wanted to he could have demonstrated everything with video. When is the last time anyone saw Melo sprint back on defense, or for that matter even on offense?

Getting back on defense and moving the ball is Sh#t you deal with in practice, not in the papers or magazines.

i agree in principle. However (a) this was Rosen, not Phil, and he was calling em as he saw em; (b) what if it's brought up in practice and the player is not responding -- which is plausible given Melo has acted like this for a half dozen coaches already; and (c) Phil has done this with players much superior to Melo

Having said that, I agree dirty laundry stuff should be addressed in house first.

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Melo did say something that was right on today.

Melo has to deal with the media every day--drama whatever maybe BSing for Phil etc... Phil doesnt do anything with the media-so its all on Melo there and thats true.

It's true, but it's also the same with every other team in the league- how often do you see their team presidents giving interviews? The media manufacture drama to get attention on their articles. A drama or a crisis will push interest and sales. Melo new what he was signing up for.

Earlier this season and last the media (and people on this board) said Phil needed to shut up (on twitter and on interviews), they said he undermined his coaches and players by speaking etc etc. Now they're blasting him for not speaking. And when he does give the occasional interview they blast him for whatever he says (the minor comments about Melo, the posse comment, etc).

All the good and talented beat reporters have moved on, been promoted etc. All we are left with are the bitter bums who know this is their last gig- they are awful, I don't blame Phil for not talking to them.

I'm in this boat

There is a big difference IMO between Phil's passive aggressive tweets, comments towards players, and being out front when your starting PG goes AWOL. Being out front when one of your buddies writes a nasty article about your star, and that player has to track you down to find out what the deal is.

Sure I would prefer that Phil kept quiet when it comes to tweets and articles dissing players, but that doesn't mean I want to see him do it through one of his friends (Charley Rosen) instead. Phil has to strike the right balance, has yet to do that IMO.

Did Rosen say anything shocking about Melo? He has said exactly what we all have said for a long while now. Why is this shocking and why did it have to come thru Phil? A TON of other writers have said the same thing - that melo is a 1-dementional playler who doesn't play D and is losing his legs. Does is somehow carry more weight with Rosen?

Those other writers haven't been acknowledged by other veteran sportwriters to be a mouthpiece for Phil Jackson. I see no distinction between a passive aggressive tweet, and passive aggressive comments about Melo being over the hill, through his buddy Rosen.

If Phil wants to trade Melo he should be up front about it and tell him, instead of doing it through one of his friends. Seems more presidential.

Why would Phil want Melo traded? I dont see that at all. I think Phil wants DadMelo. I think he wants a guy who will be simply be more rounded and move the ball. I think he like many see's Melo as stuck in some ways and if he could shake those could be a part of a huge next chapter. Phil wants Melo to succeed.. how best to go about that is up for debate though

If he really wants to see DadMelo more often, he should act more like PoppaPhil. If Phil thinks that Melo is holding on to the ball too long (no exactly breaking news), he should have spoken to him privately a long time ago instead of pointing out his star player's flaws to millions. How many team presidents do that publicly?

If Phil really wants melo to stay, he shouldn't be using reporter as a mouthpiece to criticize him. Be PoppaPhil, help Melo in private, not through twitter, not through one of his media friends.

why are you assuming he hasnt? I would assume the opposite... that way back when he resigned Melo he told him his expectations and probably told him again. Are you really assuming that the first time Melo is hearing these sentiments is from these press clippings? Does that really make sense?

When Melo was asked if Phil had ever brought up Melo's holding on to the ball too long before the interview, his answer was no. Melo said in so many words that he wished that Phil had spoken to him in private. Melo has made a concerted effort to keep the lines of communications open. Phil said in an interview that it was important to Melo, did not say that it was important to him.

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Melo did say something that was right on today.

Melo has to deal with the media every day--drama whatever maybe BSing for Phil etc... Phil doesnt do anything with the media-so its all on Melo there and thats true.

It's true, but it's also the same with every other team in the league- how often do you see their team presidents giving interviews? The media manufacture drama to get attention on their articles. A drama or a crisis will push interest and sales. Melo new what he was signing up for.

Earlier this season and last the media (and people on this board) said Phil needed to shut up (on twitter and on interviews), they said he undermined his coaches and players by speaking etc etc. Now they're blasting him for not speaking. And when he does give the occasional interview they blast him for whatever he says (the minor comments about Melo, the posse comment, etc).

All the good and talented beat reporters have moved on, been promoted etc. All we are left with are the bitter bums who know this is their last gig- they are awful, I don't blame Phil for not talking to them.

I'm in this boat

There is a big difference IMO between Phil's passive aggressive tweets, comments towards players, and being out front when your starting PG goes AWOL. Being out front when one of your buddies writes a nasty article about your star, and that player has to track you down to find out what the deal is.

Sure I would prefer that Phil kept quiet when it comes to tweets and articles dissing players, but that doesn't mean I want to see him do it through one of his friends (Charley Rosen) instead. Phil has to strike the right balance, has yet to do that IMO.

Did Rosen say anything shocking about Melo? He has said exactly what we all have said for a long while now. Why is this shocking and why did it have to come thru Phil? A TON of other writers have said the same thing - that melo is a 1-dementional playler who doesn't play D and is losing his legs. Does is somehow carry more weight with Rosen?

Those other writers haven't been acknowledged by other veteran sportwriters to be a mouthpiece for Phil Jackson. I see no distinction between a passive aggressive tweet, and passive aggressive comments about Melo being over the hill, through his buddy Rosen.

If Phil wants to trade Melo he should be up front about it and tell him, instead of doing it through one of his friends. Seems more presidential.

Why would Phil want Melo traded? I dont see that at all. I think Phil wants DadMelo. I think he wants a guy who will be simply be more rounded and move the ball. I think he like many see's Melo as stuck in some ways and if he could shake those could be a part of a huge next chapter. Phil wants Melo to succeed.. how best to go about that is up for debate though

If he really wants to see DadMelo more often, he should act more like PoppaPhil. If Phil thinks that Melo is holding on to the ball too long (no exactly breaking news), he should have spoken to him privately a long time ago instead of pointing out his star player's flaws to millions. How many team presidents do that publicly?

If Phil really wants melo to stay, he shouldn't be using reporter as a mouthpiece to criticize him. Be PoppaPhil, help Melo in private, not through twitter, not through one of his media friends.

why are you assuming he hasnt? I would assume the opposite... that way back when he resigned Melo he told him his expectations and probably told him again. Are you really assuming that the first time Melo is hearing these sentiments is from these press clippings? Does that really make sense?

When Melo was asked if Phil had ever brought up Melo's holding on to the ball too long before the interview, his answer was no. Melo said in so many words that he wished that Phil had spoken to him in private. Melo has made a concerted effort to keep the lines of communications open. Phil said in an interview that it was important to Melo, did not say that it was important to him.

Boy... as most know I am a Melo supporter and have been over the years but this really strikes me as baby stuff. Phil never attributed the Knick's struggles to Melo or his ball hogging. He simply didnt deny the obvious. I mean is Melo the victim here? I mean what Phil said should be obvious to everyone with eyes that follows the team and that player. I see no problem with any of this.

I wouldnt call my boss humiliating me in front of millions of people "baby stuff". Don't care what profession it is. Again, how many team presidents let alone GMs, or even coaches, air their dirty laundy this way about someone with Melo's credentials?

If its "baby stuff" as you call it, why isnt everyone doing it? Is Melo the only person in this league who deserves this type of treatment? As I said, Melo made a point of keeping the lines of communication open, and for taking a proactive approach to their boss/employee relationship, he gets rewarded by in effect being called a ball stopper to the world, without going to him first.

That seems more like "baby stuff" to me. Melo was the adult in this situation, not Phil.

New York Knicks president Phil Jackson said Carmelo Anthony can play the "role that Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant played" in their teams' triangle offenses, but he believes that Anthony sometimes breaks a team rule by holding on to the ball for too long.

"Carmelo a lot of times wants to hold the ball longer than -- we have a rule: If you hold a pass two seconds, you benefit the defense. So he has a little bit of a tendency to hold it for three, four, five seconds, and then everybody comes to a stop," Jackson said in an interview with CBS Sports Network that aired Tuesday. "That is one of the things we work with. But he's adjusted to [the triangle], he knows what he can do and he's willing to see its success."

Jackson's comments were prompted by a question about whether Anthony can fit in the triangle offense. Jackson made it clear he believes Anthony can.

"He can play that role that Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant played," Jackson said. "It's a perfect spot for him to be in that isolated position on the weak side, because it's an overload offense and there's a weakside man that always has an advantage if the ball is swung."

Baby stuff is not being able to handle the comments above, but wanting to be the face of the franchise. He likes to talk about how he shoulders the blame but he cant handle the above? Sorry that doesnt add up to me at all.

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Melo did say something that was right on today.

Melo has to deal with the media every day--drama whatever maybe BSing for Phil etc... Phil doesnt do anything with the media-so its all on Melo there and thats true.

It's true, but it's also the same with every other team in the league- how often do you see their team presidents giving interviews? The media manufacture drama to get attention on their articles. A drama or a crisis will push interest and sales. Melo new what he was signing up for.

Earlier this season and last the media (and people on this board) said Phil needed to shut up (on twitter and on interviews), they said he undermined his coaches and players by speaking etc etc. Now they're blasting him for not speaking. And when he does give the occasional interview they blast him for whatever he says (the minor comments about Melo, the posse comment, etc).

All the good and talented beat reporters have moved on, been promoted etc. All we are left with are the bitter bums who know this is their last gig- they are awful, I don't blame Phil for not talking to them.

I'm in this boat

There is a big difference IMO between Phil's passive aggressive tweets, comments towards players, and being out front when your starting PG goes AWOL. Being out front when one of your buddies writes a nasty article about your star, and that player has to track you down to find out what the deal is.

Sure I would prefer that Phil kept quiet when it comes to tweets and articles dissing players, but that doesn't mean I want to see him do it through one of his friends (Charley Rosen) instead. Phil has to strike the right balance, has yet to do that IMO.

Did Rosen say anything shocking about Melo? He has said exactly what we all have said for a long while now. Why is this shocking and why did it have to come thru Phil? A TON of other writers have said the same thing - that melo is a 1-dementional playler who doesn't play D and is losing his legs. Does is somehow carry more weight with Rosen?

Those other writers haven't been acknowledged by other veteran sportwriters to be a mouthpiece for Phil Jackson. I see no distinction between a passive aggressive tweet, and passive aggressive comments about Melo being over the hill, through his buddy Rosen.

If Phil wants to trade Melo he should be up front about it and tell him, instead of doing it through one of his friends. Seems more presidential.

Why would Phil want Melo traded? I dont see that at all. I think Phil wants DadMelo. I think he wants a guy who will be simply be more rounded and move the ball. I think he like many see's Melo as stuck in some ways and if he could shake those could be a part of a huge next chapter. Phil wants Melo to succeed.. how best to go about that is up for debate though

If he really wants to see DadMelo more often, he should act more like PoppaPhil. If Phil thinks that Melo is holding on to the ball too long (no exactly breaking news), he should have spoken to him privately a long time ago instead of pointing out his star player's flaws to millions. How many team presidents do that publicly?

If Phil really wants melo to stay, he shouldn't be using reporter as a mouthpiece to criticize him. Be PoppaPhil, help Melo in private, not through twitter, not through one of his media friends.

why are you assuming he hasnt? I would assume the opposite... that way back when he resigned Melo he told him his expectations and probably told him again. Are you really assuming that the first time Melo is hearing these sentiments is from these press clippings? Does that really make sense?

When Melo was asked if Phil had ever brought up Melo's holding on to the ball too long before the interview, his answer was no. Melo said in so many words that he wished that Phil had spoken to him in private. Melo has made a concerted effort to keep the lines of communications open. Phil said in an interview that it was important to Melo, did not say that it was important to him.

Boy... as most know I am a Melo supporter and have been over the years but this really strikes me as baby stuff. Phil never attributed the Knick's struggles to Melo or his ball hogging. He simply didnt deny the obvious. I mean is Melo the victim here? I mean what Phil said should be obvious to everyone with eyes that follows the team and that player. I see no problem with any of this.

I wouldnt call my boss humiliating me in front of millions of people "baby stuff". Don't care what profession it is. Again, how many team presidents let alone GMs, or even coaches, air their dirty laundy this way about someone with Melo's credentials?

If its "baby stuff" as you call it, why isnt everyone doing it? Is Melo the only person in this league who deserves this type of treatment? As I said, Melo made a point of keeping the lines of communication open, and for taking a proactive approach to their boss/employee relationship, he gets rewarded by in effect being called a ball stopper to the world, without going to him first.

That seems more like "baby stuff" to me. Melo was the adult in this situation, not Phil.

you really think what Phil said was humiliating? That really strikes me as you pumping up what happened to back your argument.

New York Knicks president Phil Jackson said Carmelo Anthony can play the "role that Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant played" in their teams' triangle offenses, but he believes that Anthony sometimes breaks a team rule by holding on to the ball for too long.

"Carmelo a lot of times wants to hold the ball longer than -- we have a rule: If you hold a pass two seconds, you benefit the defense. So he has a little bit of a tendency to hold it for three, four, five seconds, and then everybody comes to a stop," Jackson said in an interview with CBS Sports Network that aired Tuesday. "That is one of the things we work with. But he's adjusted to [the triangle], he knows what he can do and he's willing to see its success."

Jackson's comments were prompted by a question about whether Anthony can fit in the triangle offense. Jackson made it clear he believes Anthony can.

"He can play that role that Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant played," Jackson said. "It's a perfect spot for him to be in that isolated position on the weak side, because it's an overload offense and there's a weakside man that always has an advantage if the ball is swung."

If those comments equate to "humiliating" than I would say you and Melo need to seek less public professions. Sure seems to me that he's saying he's a few bad habits away from playing the role of some of the best ever.

Baby stuff is not being able to handle the comments above, but wanting to be the face of the franchise. He likes to talk about how he shoulders the blame but he cant handle the above? Sorry that doesnt add up to me at all.

Wrong, baby stuff is not addressing this in practice (as Uptown pointed out) but through the media. If we want to get all macho about it, why is Phil afraid of talking to Melo himself? Why does he feel more comfortable talking to a female reporter about this issue, miles away from him? What did he believe was going to happen?

Strip away the jargon from his comments, and its Phil calling Melo a ball stopper, ballhog, ISO heavy,whatever you want to call it. To hear this criticism from your boss through reporters, in the locker room, right after you just finished a game, is humiliating. You never answered my question, how many team presidents critique their star player this way to the media?

Phil cant say he was keeping his distance to let the coaches do their thing, he has been teaching the Triangle, a system he has forced on his new coach. So if Phil is going to embed himself into the offense, why is Melo hearing this from reporters and not him directly? Haven't heard a good answer yet fishola.

As for saying it in practice that isnt Phil's job. Remember anytime he's been around practice all you hear is how he's undermining his coach. Damned if you do, damned if you dont.

The Knicks are not playing good ball. Melo has not played good ball. Maybe Phil should have told that female reported he cant comment because you never know who's feelings he's going to hurt? Would that have gotten the Knicks fanbase seal of approval?

Sorry Melo, you just lost what? 11 of 13?

Man... "humiliating?" Boy that strikes me as a big stretch. I mean whats the context here? Vilify Phil over Melo's hurt feelings? If he says it in practice he's undermining the coach. Essentially your saying no gm or FO person should ever be critical of a player? Sorry, I dont subscribe to that.

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Melo did say something that was right on today.

Melo has to deal with the media every day--drama whatever maybe BSing for Phil etc... Phil doesnt do anything with the media-so its all on Melo there and thats true.

It's true, but it's also the same with every other team in the league- how often do you see their team presidents giving interviews? The media manufacture drama to get attention on their articles. A drama or a crisis will push interest and sales. Melo new what he was signing up for.

Earlier this season and last the media (and people on this board) said Phil needed to shut up (on twitter and on interviews), they said he undermined his coaches and players by speaking etc etc. Now they're blasting him for not speaking. And when he does give the occasional interview they blast him for whatever he says (the minor comments about Melo, the posse comment, etc).

All the good and talented beat reporters have moved on, been promoted etc. All we are left with are the bitter bums who know this is their last gig- they are awful, I don't blame Phil for not talking to them.

I'm in this boat

There is a big difference IMO between Phil's passive aggressive tweets, comments towards players, and being out front when your starting PG goes AWOL. Being out front when one of your buddies writes a nasty article about your star, and that player has to track you down to find out what the deal is.

Sure I would prefer that Phil kept quiet when it comes to tweets and articles dissing players, but that doesn't mean I want to see him do it through one of his friends (Charley Rosen) instead. Phil has to strike the right balance, has yet to do that IMO.

Did Rosen say anything shocking about Melo? He has said exactly what we all have said for a long while now. Why is this shocking and why did it have to come thru Phil? A TON of other writers have said the same thing - that melo is a 1-dementional playler who doesn't play D and is losing his legs. Does is somehow carry more weight with Rosen?

Those other writers haven't been acknowledged by other veteran sportwriters to be a mouthpiece for Phil Jackson. I see no distinction between a passive aggressive tweet, and passive aggressive comments about Melo being over the hill, through his buddy Rosen.

If Phil wants to trade Melo he should be up front about it and tell him, instead of doing it through one of his friends. Seems more presidential.

Why would Phil want Melo traded? I dont see that at all. I think Phil wants DadMelo. I think he wants a guy who will be simply be more rounded and move the ball. I think he like many see's Melo as stuck in some ways and if he could shake those could be a part of a huge next chapter. Phil wants Melo to succeed.. how best to go about that is up for debate though

If he really wants to see DadMelo more often, he should act more like PoppaPhil. If Phil thinks that Melo is holding on to the ball too long (no exactly breaking news), he should have spoken to him privately a long time ago instead of pointing out his star player's flaws to millions. How many team presidents do that publicly?

If Phil really wants melo to stay, he shouldn't be using reporter as a mouthpiece to criticize him. Be PoppaPhil, help Melo in private, not through twitter, not through one of his media friends.

why are you assuming he hasnt? I would assume the opposite... that way back when he resigned Melo he told him his expectations and probably told him again. Are you really assuming that the first time Melo is hearing these sentiments is from these press clippings? Does that really make sense?

When Melo was asked if Phil had ever brought up Melo's holding on to the ball too long before the interview, his answer was no. Melo said in so many words that he wished that Phil had spoken to him in private. Melo has made a concerted effort to keep the lines of communications open. Phil said in an interview that it was important to Melo, did not say that it was important to him.

Boy... as most know I am a Melo supporter and have been over the years but this really strikes me as baby stuff. Phil never attributed the Knick's struggles to Melo or his ball hogging. He simply didnt deny the obvious. I mean is Melo the victim here? I mean what Phil said should be obvious to everyone with eyes that follows the team and that player. I see no problem with any of this.

I wouldnt call my boss humiliating me in front of millions of people "baby stuff". Don't care what profession it is. Again, how many team presidents let alone GMs, or even coaches, air their dirty laundy this way about someone with Melo's credentials?

If its "baby stuff" as you call it, why isnt everyone doing it? Is Melo the only person in this league who deserves this type of treatment? As I said, Melo made a point of keeping the lines of communication open, and for taking a proactive approach to their boss/employee relationship, he gets rewarded by in effect being called a ball stopper to the world, without going to him first.

That seems more like "baby stuff" to me. Melo was the adult in this situation, not Phil.

you really think what Phil said was humiliating? That really strikes me as you pumping up what happened to back your argument.

New York Knicks president Phil Jackson said Carmelo Anthony can play the "role that Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant played" in their teams' triangle offenses, but he believes that Anthony sometimes breaks a team rule by holding on to the ball for too long.

"Carmelo a lot of times wants to hold the ball longer than -- we have a rule: If you hold a pass two seconds, you benefit the defense. So he has a little bit of a tendency to hold it for three, four, five seconds, and then everybody comes to a stop," Jackson said in an interview with CBS Sports Network that aired Tuesday. "That is one of the things we work with. But he's adjusted to [the triangle], he knows what he can do and he's willing to see its success."

Jackson's comments were prompted by a question about whether Anthony can fit in the triangle offense. Jackson made it clear he believes Anthony can.

"He can play that role that Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant played," Jackson said. "It's a perfect spot for him to be in that isolated position on the weak side, because it's an overload offense and there's a weakside man that always has an advantage if the ball is swung."

If those comments equate to "humiliating" than I would say you and Melo need to seek less public professions. Sure seems to me that he's saying he's a few bad habits away from playing the role of some of the best ever.

Baby stuff is not being able to handle the comments above, but wanting to be the face of the franchise. He likes to talk about how he shoulders the blame but he cant handle the above? Sorry that doesnt add up to me at all.

What was so "baby like" about what Melo said once asked about what Rosen wrote? Your defending comments made by Rosen as no big deal but your saying Melo is acting like a baby by saying what exactly? Maybe I missed something.

Cartman718 wrote:all i know is that holding the ball for 4-5 seconds...ummm.. his boys michael and kobe did it enough as well...wtf is he talking about

Can you take a stab at it?

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

MS wrote:Now is the time.

Tyson Chandler huge mistake. Signing Derek Fisher to a long term deal, huge mistake. Trading Shumpert and JR for nothing, mistake. Signing Noah huge mistake.

Talking through Rosen huge mistake.

Taking Knick job... biggest mistake. I think its obvious after Walsh, Isiah, Phil that this franchise will never learn, and neither will the fans.

Phil has done something no other GM has. He's kept our pick and added young talent. If we flounder we increase our chance of a blue chip player in the draft. Most of the very good teams were bad long enough to amass that talent in the draft. Green, Curry, Klay come to mind. Its very tough to quickly turn things around in the NBA. It happens yes, but assuming you can duplicate those circumstances isnt realistic. I think he's doing it right. He's added good player and drafted well. It will click when it clicks.

Or we could "hold Phil accountable" for our hurt feelings and 2nd guess every move, despite knowing how silly that is anyway. Tell me the GM you want why its going to be different.

Cracks me up when people like Briggs cry about the signings when the guy was pining to pay Allan Crabbe $18mm a year and the guy is total trash. Noah's value will present itself in time and Lee is a tradable player.

Fair enough. Dont think feelings have anything to do with it. If its fair game to call out players deficiencies, why not a GM's? Second guessing asside. Specially when some were bad judgements. Not to mention, we are talking about Phil Freakin Jackson. Kinda of a higher expectation? No? If Gaines was the one that wanted KP, then we can say that Phil's use was in FA. And sure, guys like Lee filled a void and made sense regardless of how he plays. Noah though? Age, injury history and on a decline? And you sign him for starter money? Rose, injury history, bad fit. Not a great decision either. Would expect more from PJ. Are these his only mistakes and is it a decent batting average. Sure. But thread was, when do we hold him accountable? 3 years, 4,5?

You asked who would do better? Well we would have to know who is working non stop in the office, on the phones building ties, working to make the organazation a player friendly destination, building a consistent hard working enviroment full of excellent flowing communnication channels . Cant say that anyone knows the answer but can tell you there are probably a lot of GM's out there doing these things 24/7.

what was the expectation? That 3-4 stars in the league would want to come to play for Phil's Knicks? I mean what are Phil's huge whiffs? He's openly admitted to missing on Crowder. Shumpert, JR, Tyson... not sure I want anything to do with those guys. Willy, Kuz, KOQ and KP I am very high on. We have kept the pics. Noah's value is TBD in my opinion and Lee is good value.

Yes.. it would be nice if we could drafted the next Lebron and Durant decided to sign here, but there needed to be a realistic understanding that this might not be easy quick or simple, that we may have to grind out talent for a few years before this team is good. That may even include a trip or two to the lottery, although I am still not convinced that will be the case.

Very few teams in the NBA have dramatic 180s, and when you see huge swings and win totals its often preceded by a down period where that team acquired players. I mean as for calling out players I mean waaaa... should Melo be babied? Is saying he ball hogs too much a bad things? Im not where I see this issues... I get more worried when guys like Layden and Isiah used to talk about how much they liked their (25win) teams.

Dont think expectation was to have 3 stars come over. Although it was probably a thought of Dolan's. That is, Phil having that kind of influence. And I definately did not expect any draft pick to be the next LBJ. Have said many time the draft is just another Lotto game. As mentioned, Would say Noah contract has been his biggest mistake so far and the inability to establish consistency in personnel.

Touching on your last point. Think the answer on how he has done is based more about the direction of the franchise, overall climate, how he has changed the stigma of NY being a dysfunctional organazation (Includes stability and continuity) and how he changes, in a positive way, the perception of NY as a good destination for future free agents. Calling out your best palyer without proper communication channels does not help succeed in doing the latter.

Do think he has done well in entrusting Gaines to sign KP and other Euro players (Kuz and Willy) Also, thought that including Holiday in Rose trade is looking quite good.

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Melo did say something that was right on today.

Melo has to deal with the media every day--drama whatever maybe BSing for Phil etc... Phil doesnt do anything with the media-so its all on Melo there and thats true.

It's true, but it's also the same with every other team in the league- how often do you see their team presidents giving interviews? The media manufacture drama to get attention on their articles. A drama or a crisis will push interest and sales. Melo new what he was signing up for.

Earlier this season and last the media (and people on this board) said Phil needed to shut up (on twitter and on interviews), they said he undermined his coaches and players by speaking etc etc. Now they're blasting him for not speaking. And when he does give the occasional interview they blast him for whatever he says (the minor comments about Melo, the posse comment, etc).

All the good and talented beat reporters have moved on, been promoted etc. All we are left with are the bitter bums who know this is their last gig- they are awful, I don't blame Phil for not talking to them.

I'm in this boat

There is a big difference IMO between Phil's passive aggressive tweets, comments towards players, and being out front when your starting PG goes AWOL. Being out front when one of your buddies writes a nasty article about your star, and that player has to track you down to find out what the deal is.

Sure I would prefer that Phil kept quiet when it comes to tweets and articles dissing players, but that doesn't mean I want to see him do it through one of his friends (Charley Rosen) instead. Phil has to strike the right balance, has yet to do that IMO.

Did Rosen say anything shocking about Melo? He has said exactly what we all have said for a long while now. Why is this shocking and why did it have to come thru Phil? A TON of other writers have said the same thing - that melo is a 1-dementional playler who doesn't play D and is losing his legs. Does is somehow carry more weight with Rosen?

Those other writers haven't been acknowledged by other veteran sportwriters to be a mouthpiece for Phil Jackson. I see no distinction between a passive aggressive tweet, and passive aggressive comments about Melo being over the hill, through his buddy Rosen.

If Phil wants to trade Melo he should be up front about it and tell him, instead of doing it through one of his friends. Seems more presidential.

Why would Phil want Melo traded? I dont see that at all. I think Phil wants DadMelo. I think he wants a guy who will be simply be more rounded and move the ball. I think he like many see's Melo as stuck in some ways and if he could shake those could be a part of a huge next chapter. Phil wants Melo to succeed.. how best to go about that is up for debate though

If he really wants to see DadMelo more often, he should act more like PoppaPhil. If Phil thinks that Melo is holding on to the ball too long (no exactly breaking news), he should have spoken to him privately a long time ago instead of pointing out his star player's flaws to millions. How many team presidents do that publicly?

If Phil really wants melo to stay, he shouldn't be using reporter as a mouthpiece to criticize him. Be PoppaPhil, help Melo in private, not through twitter, not through one of his media friends.

why are you assuming he hasnt? I would assume the opposite... that way back when he resigned Melo he told him his expectations and probably told him again. Are you really assuming that the first time Melo is hearing these sentiments is from these press clippings? Does that really make sense?

When Melo was asked if Phil had ever brought up Melo's holding on to the ball too long before the interview, his answer was no. Melo said in so many words that he wished that Phil had spoken to him in private. Melo has made a concerted effort to keep the lines of communications open. Phil said in an interview that it was important to Melo, did not say that it was important to him.

Boy... as most know I am a Melo supporter and have been over the years but this really strikes me as baby stuff. Phil never attributed the Knick's struggles to Melo or his ball hogging. He simply didnt deny the obvious. I mean is Melo the victim here? I mean what Phil said should be obvious to everyone with eyes that follows the team and that player. I see no problem with any of this.

I wouldnt call my boss humiliating me in front of millions of people "baby stuff". Don't care what profession it is. Again, how many team presidents let alone GMs, or even coaches, air their dirty laundy this way about someone with Melo's credentials?

If its "baby stuff" as you call it, why isnt everyone doing it? Is Melo the only person in this league who deserves this type of treatment? As I said, Melo made a point of keeping the lines of communication open, and for taking a proactive approach to their boss/employee relationship, he gets rewarded by in effect being called a ball stopper to the world, without going to him first.

That seems more like "baby stuff" to me. Melo was the adult in this situation, not Phil.

you really think what Phil said was humiliating? That really strikes me as you pumping up what happened to back your argument.

New York Knicks president Phil Jackson said Carmelo Anthony can play the "role that Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant played" in their teams' triangle offenses, but he believes that Anthony sometimes breaks a team rule by holding on to the ball for too long.

"Carmelo a lot of times wants to hold the ball longer than -- we have a rule: If you hold a pass two seconds, you benefit the defense. So he has a little bit of a tendency to hold it for three, four, five seconds, and then everybody comes to a stop," Jackson said in an interview with CBS Sports Network that aired Tuesday. "That is one of the things we work with. But he's adjusted to [the triangle], he knows what he can do and he's willing to see its success."

Jackson's comments were prompted by a question about whether Anthony can fit in the triangle offense. Jackson made it clear he believes Anthony can.

"He can play that role that Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant played," Jackson said. "It's a perfect spot for him to be in that isolated position on the weak side, because it's an overload offense and there's a weakside man that always has an advantage if the ball is swung."

If those comments equate to "humiliating" than I would say you and Melo need to seek less public professions. Sure seems to me that he's saying he's a few bad habits away from playing the role of some of the best ever.

Baby stuff is not being able to handle the comments above, but wanting to be the face of the franchise. He likes to talk about how he shoulders the blame but he cant handle the above? Sorry that doesnt add up to me at all.

Wrong, baby stuff is not addressing this in practice (as Uptown pointed out) but through the media. If we want to get all macho about it, why is Phil afraid of talking to Melo himself? Why does he feel more comfortable talking to a female reporter about this issue, miles away from him? What did he believe was going to happen?

Strip away the jargon from his comments, and its Phil calling Melo a ball stopper, ballhog, ISO heavy,whatever you want to call it. To hear this criticism from your boss through reporters, in the locker room, right after you just finished a game, is humiliating. You never answered my question, how many team presidents critique their star player this way to the media?

Phil cant say he was keeping his distance to let the coaches do their thing, he has been teaching the Triangle, a system he has forced on his new coach. So if Phil is going to embed himself into the offense, why is Melo hearing this from reporters and not him directly? Haven't heard a good answer yet fishola.

To answer your question I am wrong guy to ask, because I really only follow the Knicks. I dont follow every other team in the league so I dont know what is said. I DO know Bill Parcells used to make comments like this however both in his time withthe Jets and Giants. Phil certainly did this with Kobe and Shaq when was coaching them and winning titles.

As for saying it in practice that isnt Phil's job. Remember anytime he's been around practice all you hear is how he's undermining his coach. Damned if you do, damned if you dont.

The Knicks are not playing good ball. Melo has not played good ball. Maybe Phil should have told that female reported he cant comment because you never know who's feelings he's going to hurt? Would that have gotten the Knicks fanbase seal of approval?

Sorry Melo, you just lost what? 11 of 13?

Man... "humiliating?" Boy that strikes me as a big stretch. I mean whats the context here? Vilify Phil over Melo's hurt feelings? If he says it in practice he's undermining the coach. Essentially your saying no gm or FO person should ever be critical of a player? Sorry, I dont subscribe to that.

Melo looked very embarrassed, didnt deserve to hear anything like that through someone outside the organization. I believe we can agree that team presidents going into any detail about a major flaw in the game of their star player without consulting them first, is rare.

Phil has known for a long time from first hand experience as a coach that Melo has always tended to hold on to the ball longer than is probably good to reliably execute an offense, even one that is ISO heavy. Still, he went and gave Melo the max with a no trade clause to run an offense that is predicated on ball movement.

To me Phil not having a conversation about this with Melo before he gave him not only the max, but the NTC as well is kind of like Obi Wan Kenobi forgetting to tell Luke Skywalker about the Force. Seems essential no?

Wait.. what again did Melo hear? That he holds the ball too long? Whats the problem? That Melo didnt know he did this or someone had the audacity to suggest such a thing???

Play some defense and share the ball this goes away. Or cry about it and claim drama. Pick one.

You answer my question, and I'll answer yours.

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Melo did say something that was right on today.

Melo has to deal with the media every day--drama whatever maybe BSing for Phil etc... Phil doesnt do anything with the media-so its all on Melo there and thats true.

It's true, but it's also the same with every other team in the league- how often do you see their team presidents giving interviews? The media manufacture drama to get attention on their articles. A drama or a crisis will push interest and sales. Melo new what he was signing up for.

Earlier this season and last the media (and people on this board) said Phil needed to shut up (on twitter and on interviews), they said he undermined his coaches and players by speaking etc etc. Now they're blasting him for not speaking. And when he does give the occasional interview they blast him for whatever he says (the minor comments about Melo, the posse comment, etc).

All the good and talented beat reporters have moved on, been promoted etc. All we are left with are the bitter bums who know this is their last gig- they are awful, I don't blame Phil for not talking to them.

I'm in this boat

There is a big difference IMO between Phil's passive aggressive tweets, comments towards players, and being out front when your starting PG goes AWOL. Being out front when one of your buddies writes a nasty article about your star, and that player has to track you down to find out what the deal is.

Sure I would prefer that Phil kept quiet when it comes to tweets and articles dissing players, but that doesn't mean I want to see him do it through one of his friends (Charley Rosen) instead. Phil has to strike the right balance, has yet to do that IMO.

Did Rosen say anything shocking about Melo? He has said exactly what we all have said for a long while now. Why is this shocking and why did it have to come thru Phil? A TON of other writers have said the same thing - that melo is a 1-dementional playler who doesn't play D and is losing his legs. Does is somehow carry more weight with Rosen?

Those other writers haven't been acknowledged by other veteran sportwriters to be a mouthpiece for Phil Jackson. I see no distinction between a passive aggressive tweet, and passive aggressive comments about Melo being over the hill, through his buddy Rosen.

If Phil wants to trade Melo he should be up front about it and tell him, instead of doing it through one of his friends. Seems more presidential.

Why would Phil want Melo traded? I dont see that at all. I think Phil wants DadMelo. I think he wants a guy who will be simply be more rounded and move the ball. I think he like many see's Melo as stuck in some ways and if he could shake those could be a part of a huge next chapter. Phil wants Melo to succeed.. how best to go about that is up for debate though

If he really wants to see DadMelo more often, he should act more like PoppaPhil. If Phil thinks that Melo is holding on to the ball too long (no exactly breaking news), he should have spoken to him privately a long time ago instead of pointing out his star player's flaws to millions. How many team presidents do that publicly?

If Phil really wants melo to stay, he shouldn't be using reporter as a mouthpiece to criticize him. Be PoppaPhil, help Melo in private, not through twitter, not through one of his media friends.

why are you assuming he hasnt? I would assume the opposite... that way back when he resigned Melo he told him his expectations and probably told him again. Are you really assuming that the first time Melo is hearing these sentiments is from these press clippings? Does that really make sense?

When Melo was asked if Phil had ever brought up Melo's holding on to the ball too long before the interview, his answer was no. Melo said in so many words that he wished that Phil had spoken to him in private. Melo has made a concerted effort to keep the lines of communications open. Phil said in an interview that it was important to Melo, did not say that it was important to him.

Boy... as most know I am a Melo supporter and have been over the years but this really strikes me as baby stuff. Phil never attributed the Knick's struggles to Melo or his ball hogging. He simply didnt deny the obvious. I mean is Melo the victim here? I mean what Phil said should be obvious to everyone with eyes that follows the team and that player. I see no problem with any of this.

I wouldnt call my boss humiliating me in front of millions of people "baby stuff". Don't care what profession it is. Again, how many team presidents let alone GMs, or even coaches, air their dirty laundy this way about someone with Melo's credentials?

If its "baby stuff" as you call it, why isnt everyone doing it? Is Melo the only person in this league who deserves this type of treatment? As I said, Melo made a point of keeping the lines of communication open, and for taking a proactive approach to their boss/employee relationship, he gets rewarded by in effect being called a ball stopper to the world, without going to him first.

That seems more like "baby stuff" to me. Melo was the adult in this situation, not Phil.

you really think what Phil said was humiliating? That really strikes me as you pumping up what happened to back your argument.

New York Knicks president Phil Jackson said Carmelo Anthony can play the "role that Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant played" in their teams' triangle offenses, but he believes that Anthony sometimes breaks a team rule by holding on to the ball for too long.

"Carmelo a lot of times wants to hold the ball longer than -- we have a rule: If you hold a pass two seconds, you benefit the defense. So he has a little bit of a tendency to hold it for three, four, five seconds, and then everybody comes to a stop," Jackson said in an interview with CBS Sports Network that aired Tuesday. "That is one of the things we work with. But he's adjusted to [the triangle], he knows what he can do and he's willing to see its success."

Jackson's comments were prompted by a question about whether Anthony can fit in the triangle offense. Jackson made it clear he believes Anthony can.

"He can play that role that Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant played," Jackson said. "It's a perfect spot for him to be in that isolated position on the weak side, because it's an overload offense and there's a weakside man that always has an advantage if the ball is swung."

If those comments equate to "humiliating" than I would say you and Melo need to seek less public professions. Sure seems to me that he's saying he's a few bad habits away from playing the role of some of the best ever.

Baby stuff is not being able to handle the comments above, but wanting to be the face of the franchise. He likes to talk about how he shoulders the blame but he cant handle the above? Sorry that doesnt add up to me at all.

Wrong, baby stuff is not addressing this in practice (as Uptown pointed out) but through the media. If we want to get all macho about it, why is Phil afraid of talking to Melo himself? Why does he feel more comfortable talking to a female reporter about this issue, miles away from him? What did he believe was going to happen?

Strip away the jargon from his comments, and its Phil calling Melo a ball stopper, ballhog, ISO heavy,whatever you want to call it. To hear this criticism from your boss through reporters, in the locker room, right after you just finished a game, is humiliating. You never answered my question, how many team presidents critique their star player this way to the media?

Phil cant say he was keeping his distance to let the coaches do their thing, he has been teaching the Triangle, a system he has forced on his new coach. So if Phil is going to embed himself into the offense, why is Melo hearing this from reporters and not him directly? Haven't heard a good answer yet fishola.

To answer your question I am wrong guy to ask, because I really only follow the Knicks. I dont follow every other team in the league so I dont know what is said. I DO know Bill Parcells used to make comments like this however both in his time withthe Jets and Giants. Phil certainly did this with Kobe and Shaq when was coaching them and winning titles.

As for saying it in practice that isnt Phil's job. Remember anytime he's been around practice all you hear is how he's undermining his coach. Damned if you do, damned if you dont.

The Knicks are not playing good ball. Melo has not played good ball. Maybe Phil should have told that female reported he cant comment because you never know who's feelings he's going to hurt? Would that have gotten the Knicks fanbase seal of approval?

Sorry Melo, you just lost what? 11 of 13?

Man... "humiliating?" Boy that strikes me as a big stretch. I mean whats the context here? Vilify Phil over Melo's hurt feelings? If he says it in practice he's undermining the coach. Essentially your saying no gm or FO person should ever be critical of a player? Sorry, I dont subscribe to that.

Melo looked very embarrassed, didnt deserve to hear anything like that through someone outside the organization. I believe we can agree that team presidents going into any detail about a major flaw in the game of their star player without consulting them first, is rare.

Phil has known for a long time from first hand experience as a coach that Melo has always tended to hold on to the ball longer than is probably good to reliably execute an offense, even one that is ISO heavy. Still, he went and gave Melo the max with a no trade clause to run an offense that is predicated on ball movement.

To me Phil not having a conversation about this with Melo before he gave him not only the max, but the NTC as well is kind of like Obi Wan Kenobi forgetting to tell Luke Skywalker about the Force. Seems essential no?

Wait.. what again did Melo hear? That he holds the ball too long? Whats the problem? That Melo didnt know he did this or someone had the audacity to suggest such a thing???

Play some defense and share the ball this goes away. Or cry about it and claim drama. Pick one.

You answer my question, and I'll answer yours.

Sorry.. I must have missed your point along the way. I really have nothing else to say on the topic.

OK C3PO...

CrushAlot wrote:

Nalod wrote:Stan Van gundy been known to say things......
Dwight Howards coach's.......
Riley didn't embarrass Wade?
Is any player above criticism? Is it that "stars" are above it?
Pop has been critical of some guys on his team.......
Does it have to be a coach with chips have the ability to say things?
Larry Brown Humiliated Iverson at times.
Who is above it?

Yeah but you are talking about coaches or in Riley's case a very hands on guy. The guys you mention interacted with the player the day before they said something and the day after. I have never read, 'The Buford Files', or 'The Meyers Files' where those guys say good or bad things about their players. GMs/Presidents don't blast their guys in the press. Phil and Melo don't talk and Melo has said he is around every day if Phil wants to talk to him about something. Not a good look for Phil. And as Melo said, Phil does his stuff in the press and he then has to face the media and answer questions because of it.

You make a good point. I thought Phil did go to a practices and spend time with them. The CBS thing was really not bad.
Melo has been scorned by Karl and MDA as well. He did play for Woodson, who is the assistant for Clippers!!!
reality is Melo wants to play in NY and I think phil is frustrated by Melo at times.