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Melo: If they feel my time in NY is over that's a conversation we should have
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yellowboy90
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1/16/2017  12:35 AM
CrushAlot wrote:
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:IMO, Phil has never really believed in Melo being kp art if a winning team.

I believe that he had to re-sign him because of Dolan. Had he had his way he would have let Melo walk.

Melo is a great scorer and could be an even better as a set up guy if he had the brains to do it. The team goes up and down as Melo's desire to fit in or be all about his ego.

I am all for a trade. It will be a positive move for the team. I trust in Phil. He is the only one who has ever won anything in the organization.

I don't feel the same way about Phil. He doesn't trade picks which is honorable but so is Byron Scott working his guys hard in practice. I am not positive but I believe Zach Lowe did a podcast earlier this year where he and a guest were laughing at how little time Phil puts into his position compared to the other execs around the league. I will try to find it tomorrow.

Are you sure that's Phil or is it Dolan because Dolan put a stop to trading 1sts before Phil got here and it's why the knicks lost out on getting lowry.
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CrushAlot
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1/16/2017  12:47 AM
yellowboy90 wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:IMO, Phil has never really believed in Melo being kp art if a winning team.

I believe that he had to re-sign him because of Dolan. Had he had his way he would have let Melo walk.

Melo is a great scorer and could be an even better as a set up guy if he had the brains to do it. The team goes up and down as Melo's desire to fit in or be all about his ego.

I am all for a trade. It will be a positive move for the team. I trust in Phil. He is the only one who has ever won anything in the organization.

I don't feel the same way about Phil. He doesn't trade picks which is honorable but so is Byron Scott working his guys hard in practice. I am not positive but I believe Zach Lowe did a podcast earlier this year where he and a guest were laughing at how little time Phil puts into his position compared to the other execs around the league. I will try to find it tomorrow.

Are you sure that's Phil or is it Dolan because Dolan put a stop to trading 1sts before Phil got here and it's why the knicks lost out on getting lowry.

I am sure they were talking about Phil on the podcast but I don't know if he is following orders in regards to first rounders.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
ESOMKnicks
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1/16/2017  1:03 AM
Knixkik wrote:I have always been supportive of Melo. He is the scapegoat the same way Ewing was. NY fans just don't learn. However, if it's time to move on, that's fine. It's reality that most of these relationships end in divorce. Change is the only constant. But I would have loved to see porzingis at the 5 and Melo at the 4 before a divorce. But it may be too little too late. We can't learn much the 2nd half of the year if both sides are thinking it's time to move on.

With Ewing we were great. With Melo we have sucked.
ESOMKnicks
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1/16/2017  1:07 AM
CrushAlot wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
holfresh wrote:Like Trump, that just set up a negotiation starting point..

I agree Melo left the door a little open. If Melo goes, Im guessing he wants Phil to be seen as the one driving this move (even though he has the NTC) and probably wouldnt mind leaving himself at this point.

If its a choice between a bad deal now, and a better deal this summer, I hope Phil waits. Rose I would move now, try for another expiring deal, like Noel.

Not trying to be funny here, but Melo would probably want to go to one of the LA teams because of his wife's career, and his kids as well. Engineering something that would address his and his family's needs probably has a better chance of happening over the summer.

good post. It would probably make more sense waiting for the summer in terms of value. As for rose they should try and get something for him even by eating some salary to get a better return

Melo is a 14 year veteran who has played about 20 seasons worth of minutes and has a bad shoulder. Waiting is too big a gamble IMO.

That kind of thinking got us Ewing's crappy deal, and years of cap hell. Might not be a good deal out there that Phil can put together in a hurry. Sure try, but if not wait until the dust settles.

Good point. If it doesn't happen at the deadline then around the draft a deal could be made.

We can get the most value for Melo before the deadline, from a team that feels he would make the difference between a strong run in the playoffs and a championship this year. In the off-season teams think of trades with much cooler heads and less desperation.
shinmen
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1/16/2017  1:39 AM
I'm no nba salary expert but the other team would have to take melo and his 30 millions in salary with the trade kicker. I don't see this happening except with us taking back a lot of crap. The purpose is to build something, not dig a deeper hole. Maybe in july with teams having more cap space we could work something out.
CrushAlot
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1/16/2017  1:53 AM
He has the second-highest trade kicker in the NBA at $11,700,000, according to Eric Pincus.
http://hoopshype.com/player/carmelo-anthony/salary/
Do the Knicks pay that or the team acquiring Melo?
If I am Melo I might just bolt. 12 mil and a chance to play for a real team is a lot of motivation.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
holfresh
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1/16/2017  2:16 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/16/2017  2:17 AM
CrushAlot wrote:He has the second-highest trade kicker in the NBA at $11,700,000, according to Eric Pincus.
http://hoopshype.com/player/carmelo-anthony/salary/
Do the Knicks pay that or the team acquiring Melo?
If I am Melo I might just bolt. 12 mil and a chance to play for a real team is a lot of motivation.

I read somewhere based on the previous CBA, circa 2014-15 that it's paid by the Knicks and only if they are under the cap..So Melo would get nothing..Not sure if the new CBA is ratified..
stopstandthere
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1/16/2017  2:39 AM
Right, it is time to move on.
wargames
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1/16/2017  3:43 AM
I just think it needs to be repeated. Melo doesn't suck and if he is traded Phil should bring back a good haul of youth/picks. It's doesn't have to be a great haul, but it should definitely be something that could help reset the Knicks quickly. Melo doesn't have to leave, trading him is just transitioning to a different team quicker. So Phil should receive compensation for Melo that reflects that.
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smackeddog
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1/16/2017  4:54 AM
Problem is, that article said he would only accept a trade to the Cavs or Clippers- neither of which will return anything but bad contracts. I mean, we're talking about Jamal Crawford and Austin Rivers!

Literally, I think the only team that could give us something nice back would be Boston and I don't see Melo fitting well (also couldn't picture him as a Celtic) with IT- would completely mess up that team.
smackeddog
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1/16/2017  4:56 AM
Man, that article is brutal! (But true):

CARMELO ANTHONY’s legs are going, going, almost gone. As ever, he’s still a dangerous scorer but resists any offensive game plan that limits his one-on-one adventures. Moreover, his sticky fingers causes whatever ball-and-player movement is in effect to come to a grinding stop.

Since Melo has been mostly shooting blanks in the clutch — he was scoreless in the fourth quarter last night — it’s really a dead stop.

Also, while he’s never been accused of playing defense, Anthony is intent on saving even more steps on this end of the game to conserve his energy for offense.

He’s four months away from his 33rd birthday, his contract is humongous and contains a no-trade clause. It’s understood that he’d only accept being dealt to the Cavaliers or the Clippers.
ESOMKnicks
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1/16/2017  5:00 AM
If Phil can get us a lottery pick plus expiring contracts for Melo, he should have a monument built for him in NY. And if he finnagles the Nets pick from Boston, the monument should be the size of the Statue of Liberty.
holfresh
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1/16/2017  6:53 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/16/2017  7:02 AM
smackeddog wrote:Man, that article is brutal! (But true):

CARMELO ANTHONY’s legs are going, going, almost gone. As ever, he’s still a dangerous scorer but resists any offensive game plan that limits his one-on-one adventures. Moreover, his sticky fingers causes whatever ball-and-player movement is in effect to come to a grinding stop.

Since Melo has been mostly shooting blanks in the clutch — he was scoreless in the fourth quarter last night — it’s really a dead stop.

Also, while he’s never been accused of playing defense, Anthony is intent on saving even more steps on this end of the game to conserve his energy for offense.

He’s four months away from his 33rd birthday, his contract is humongous and contains a no-trade clause. It’s understood that he’d only accept being dealt to the Cavaliers or the Clippers.


It's not all true..It just seem like he goes out his way to land a blow...For example, he says Melo has been shooting blanks in the clutch..Anyone who pays close attention to the Knicks like Phil would, knows he hit two game winners this season already and carried the team in the 4th of two other games to eventual victories..

He also said Melo was scoreless in the 4th of a game when he wrote the article..Melo was actually 0-3 in the quarter after scoring 28 points in the game on 11-25 shooting..So not scoring is more a function of him playing the entire 3rd quarter and coming back half way in the 4th than just being off the entire quarter..Its a hit piece..Not a way I think Phil would go about doing his business..
Bonn1997
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1/16/2017  7:44 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/16/2017  7:45 AM
NardDogNation wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
holfresh wrote:Like Trump, that just set up a negotiation starting point..

I agree Melo left the door a little open. If Melo goes, Im guessing he wants Phil to be seen as the one driving this move (even though he has the NTC) and probably wouldnt mind leaving himself at this point.

If its a choice between a bad deal now, and a better deal this summer, I hope Phil waits. Rose I would move now, try for another expiring deal, like Noel.

Not trying to be funny here, but Melo would probably want to go to one of the LA teams because of his wife's career, and his kids as well. Engineering something that would address his and his family's needs probably has a better chance of happening over the summer.

good post. It would probably make more sense waiting for the summer in terms of value. As for rose they should try and get something for him even by eating some salary to get a better return

Melo is a 14 year veteran who has played about 20 seasons worth of minutes and has a bad shoulder. Waiting is too big a gamble IMO.

That kind of thinking got us Ewing's crappy deal, and years of cap hell. Might not be a good deal out there that Phil can put together in a hurry. Sure try, but if not wait until the dust settles.


No, I want to free up cap room, not do something that could hurt long-term.

Why? I'd imagine that the value of cap room is at an all-time low with so many teams having it available. Because of that, my primary concern in a Melo deal would be trying to recoup as many tangible assets as possible that are key to a successful rebuild (i.e. draft picks).


That's a good point but I don't think we can get good picks for Melo. I'd love to get them though. I'd certainly try though.
Bonn1997
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1/16/2017  7:46 AM
yellowboy90 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
holfresh wrote:Like Trump, that just set up a negotiation starting point..

I agree Melo left the door a little open. If Melo goes, Im guessing he wants Phil to be seen as the one driving this move (even though he has the NTC) and probably wouldnt mind leaving himself at this point.

If its a choice between a bad deal now, and a better deal this summer, I hope Phil waits. Rose I would move now, try for another expiring deal, like Noel.

Not trying to be funny here, but Melo would probably want to go to one of the LA teams because of his wife's career, and his kids as well. Engineering something that would address his and his family's needs probably has a better chance of happening over the summer.

good post. It would probably make more sense waiting for the summer in terms of value. As for rose they should try and get something for him even by eating some salary to get a better return

Melo is a 14 year veteran who has played about 20 seasons worth of minutes and has a bad shoulder. Waiting is too big a gamble IMO.

You act like the knicks have a quality F.O. as long as Phil is here the trade will likely be terrible regardless


Most likely, it's as long as Dolan is here but I agree. This is why Melo is just a symptom of the problem.
Bonn1997
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1/16/2017  7:50 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/16/2017  7:54 AM
nyknickzingis wrote:Us losing games is on Melo. Defensively he is atrocious for the team's leader. He just brings zero defensive culture to the team.

I do have no hard feelings for Melo. I appreciate his talent as a scorer. He's one of the best isolation scorers in the game. However, he is not winning as the man. We're moving nowhere. We're stuck between a fringe playoff team and a lottery team. It's not a good place to be in every year. Moving Melo expediates the rebuilding process.

If the team were able to win something in the now, or Melo was drawing in all-star free agents that could put the Knicks into contending, ok. That's not the case. The trade has made sense for almost 2 years now. However Phil and everyone wanted to give it a try. They have. Time to move on now.

Phil has to step up. Take the heat. Be the bad guy. He's already vilified. He does need to make a trade that gives Knicks some capspace and longterm assets. It won't be easy to make a trade.


It's not just his defense, though. His shooting is worse than the worst shooting team in the league. If he's not going to play defense or shoot respectably, what are we paying him $25 mil for? The 5.9 rebounds? 0.9 steals?
holfresh
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1/16/2017  8:17 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:Us losing games is on Melo. Defensively he is atrocious for the team's leader. He just brings zero defensive culture to the team.

I do have no hard feelings for Melo. I appreciate his talent as a scorer. He's one of the best isolation scorers in the game. However, he is not winning as the man. We're moving nowhere. We're stuck between a fringe playoff team and a lottery team. It's not a good place to be in every year. Moving Melo expediates the rebuilding process.

If the team were able to win something in the now, or Melo was drawing in all-star free agents that could put the Knicks into contending, ok. That's not the case. The trade has made sense for almost 2 years now. However Phil and everyone wanted to give it a try. They have. Time to move on now.

Phil has to step up. Take the heat. Be the bad guy. He's already vilified. He does need to make a trade that gives Knicks some capspace and longterm assets. It won't be easy to make a trade.


It's not just his defense, though. His shooting is worse than the worst shooting team in the league. If he's not going to play defense or shoot respectably, what are we paying him $25 mil for? The 5.9 rebounds? 0.9 steals?

He was shooting 48% before he injured his shoulder..His % plummeted since then..He might be getting paid since the team has no chance to win without him..
smackeddog
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1/16/2017  8:25 AM
ESOMKnicks wrote:If Phil can get us a lottery pick plus expiring contracts for Melo, he should have a monument built for him in NY. And if he finnagles the Nets pick from Boston, the monument should be the size of the Statue of Liberty.

Yeah, imagine us having two high lottery picks in this draft- the stuff of dreams! Which is why it won't happen, unfortunately
HofstraBBall
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1/16/2017  8:33 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/16/2017  8:39 AM
Problem here is, everyone is too busy whining like 2 year old little girls and looking to blame someone for not being able to wear their oversize Knick jerseys in public, that they are not seeing the real problems. Reminds me a lot of whining Yankee fans. (Probably a lot on here and in NYC)
If you watch the last 10 games, Melo is not the problem. KP is not LBJ and he will not be handing us a chip if we give him the rock every possession. People keep talking **** but they seem to not be noticing simple facts. It's easy to blame the star, I get it. Easy to say Melo can't play defense, not the best defensive player. Easy to say he takes too many shots, anyone who doesn't already know this is mentally slow. But look at why we are losing and you see a lot more obvious things to correct.

Raptors back court scored 64 points yesterday...not on Melo
Melo leaves in Q2...bench plays like ****.(happens most games)
2 years of tanking by Phil..Not on Melo for losing.
2nd unit has no consistent scorers...yeah I know, Cheese, Baker and Willy are awesome.
Oh yeah, Triangle learning curve and old man Phil insistence for every coach.

I still see the biggest problems as
Noah a mistake and liabilty for 17M..not on Melo (Phil?)
KP not a center and forcing 2 guys to play out of position..not on Melo
Rose not a PG no outside jumper.
Lee not the defender everyone claimed he was. JR without the energy, ability to play in spotlight and big moment and ability to drive.
Hmmmm and NO BENCH!!

Is Melo the same? No. Does he miss defensive assignments? Yes. Can we win with him with a few changes to the roster? Absolutely. Fact of the matter is that the alternative is watching a bunch of young unproven guys get their **** handed to them every night, only to realize a few years later that we did not draft the next LBJ like every dreamer on this board is assuming we will. While were at it, let's all quit our jobs and play Lotto for a living. Way to build is have solid vets, Melo and trade for young 2 or 3 year pros and hope to get some luck in draft. Only reason I see to trade Melo is that KP can't play center. But then you better hope KP ia ready to turn into what everyone is claiming him to be.(Better than Melo) But be careful, he can be the next Dirk or, like someone mentioned, Bradley 2.0. Big and soft and taking 30 footers all game. Keep in mind that guys like that need players like Melo to shine.

'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
Bonn1997
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1/16/2017  8:46 AM
holfresh wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:Us losing games is on Melo. Defensively he is atrocious for the team's leader. He just brings zero defensive culture to the team.

I do have no hard feelings for Melo. I appreciate his talent as a scorer. He's one of the best isolation scorers in the game. However, he is not winning as the man. We're moving nowhere. We're stuck between a fringe playoff team and a lottery team. It's not a good place to be in every year. Moving Melo expediates the rebuilding process.

If the team were able to win something in the now, or Melo was drawing in all-star free agents that could put the Knicks into contending, ok. That's not the case. The trade has made sense for almost 2 years now. However Phil and everyone wanted to give it a try. They have. Time to move on now.

Phil has to step up. Take the heat. Be the bad guy. He's already vilified. He does need to make a trade that gives Knicks some capspace and longterm assets. It won't be easy to make a trade.


It's not just his defense, though. His shooting is worse than the worst shooting team in the league. If he's not going to play defense or shoot respectably, what are we paying him $25 mil for? The 5.9 rebounds? 0.9 steals?

He was shooting 48% before he injured his shoulder..His % plummeted since then..He might be getting paid since the team has no chance to win without him..

Small sample? :) He barely shot better than the worst team last year too. Who cares if the team doesn't win without him? No one's talking about just waiving him. The team doesn't win with him anyway.
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