nixluva wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

nixluva wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Uptown wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:OK maybe we don't have a disagreement then. My default position is that you can't please everyone, and I hope Phil isn't trying to do that.I want him to do what I think is right, just like everyone else, But most people don't agree in what is right.So the argument that Phil should do this because everyone would accuse him otherwise is weak in my opinion.

The bolded is the thought process of many posters....If the organization doesn't sign the players I want for the money I say and build the team the way I see fit, then its wrong....

When in your lifetime have you ever seen the Knicks in full rebuild mode? The Knicks have always tried to lure the big Free agents (Alan Houston, not to mention the countless players who turned us down), taking Risky players (Sprewell, Bernard King,) injured players (Larry Johnson) and traded away home grown youth (Strickland, Jackson, etc). I'm not saying its the absolute right way, but its the Knicks way since I was a fan.

Please don't put words in my mouth that I didn't say. It's not about being right it's about having a long teeth aprroach or doing the same **** we did during the last twenty years. Don't ask when the Knicks did a full rebuild. Ask yourself when was the last time Knicks had real success with dumb starfukking?

I think you're assessment of what Phil is doing is WAY off. He's not just collecting names as you seem to be suggesting. He's looking at what these players offer the team in the way of winning games. Noah is a winning player. He promotes TEAM play and has the right attitude about how to play. It's not just a guy collecting players. He's collecting skillsets and intangibles that he believes will lead to winning. He's a MUCH deeper thinker than you're giving him credit for. Maybe in the past Knicks GM's have got starry eyed but that's not really how Phil thinks. Just go read anything he's written or has been written about his process and you'll see exactly what I mean.

Yes Noah is a very good player and I have said multiple times I like his style of play. But he does injure himself quite often and no amount of lip service to the Knicks organization and reading books on Phil will make that go away. Rose is poor defender as is Melo, so all this great basketball understanding had so far yielded 4 starters and two of them are questionable defenders and that's being generous. Melo and Rose both need the ball and we have no idea yet if given their history of injury(Rose) and precedence for half court bully ball (Melo) can combine effectively in a motion offense. We still have no consistent outside shooting our promoter defense to speak of. We don't have any guards on the bench, except a undrafted rookie and we have gaping holes if one of these old gimpy guys go down for a few games which will inevitably happen.

Obviously there are holes still left to be filled. Also no one is suggesting this team is perfect. I could go down a list like this for the Cavs too. It's very hard to man a team full of perfect players. In the end this team will be better than the one we had last year. We're starting off already with more capabilities.

I agree this team lacks enough Shooting. It's currently a severe hole. Hopefully Phil will be able to address that need. He's clearly making every effort to solve this problem.

Knickoftime wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:-You want the probabilities in your favor for every decision

Not for nothing, but probabilities are never in your favor in professional sports.

I think you mean to say you want to pursue the relatively more favorable probabilities.

-Players tend to have a sharp decline by their late 20s and early 30s

I am not refuting this. I'd like to see the empirical support of this to see how significant the decline is.

Can you help?

-The best teams are ones that have players playing on bargain contracts

That would not describe the Cleveland Cavaliers. Just sayin'.

A) Not sure what you mean? Do you mean the probability of winning a championship? I just meant the probability that the team is better after than before the decision.

If that equation was manageable - any change move is statistically probable to make you better, every team would generally get better and that's impossible.

The odds are not 50/50 unless the only thing you do is sign the James and Durants of the world.

B) Oh man - the same conversation went into two threads. I posted the aging data in the Courtney Lee thread here:http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=54731

Thank you, I'll check it out.

meloshouldgo wrote:As you can see we already don't have enough money to land a starting quality SG.

This is why you wait...

"He wanted to play in New York and Joakim Noah was instrumental in recruiting him. Would not have happened without Joakim. Courtney couldn't be more excited."

ChuckBuck wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:It's like I wrote this article or something.

His concerns are my concerns. Instead of sitting put and filling out the roster with filler, we're about to ruin our cap for next year. Instead of 60-65m to sign 2 max studs, we can only offer 1.

Today proved players are willing to jump ship if the money and opportunity presented itself.

Shame we're going in another direction.

Exactly which team stars jumped ship today? Durant, Batum, Derozan, Whiteside chose or will choose the extra year and more money. Think Knicks know the pattern. Specially next year when caps go up.
Noah at 18M with next year's number can be a bargain if he stays healthy or a tradeable contract if he shows signs of injury. Would agree Gordon would make things a bit too risky, unless it's a team friendly deal.

I said players not stars. Next year will be superstars.

Didn't Parsons and Evan Turner switch teams? I heard Horford will switch soon too.

Parsons went to another team bc the Mavs said he wasn't worth the max (they are right). Parsons turned down a max offer from a high cost region and chose Memphis bc it is an extra 6 mil or so over the life of the deal. We woulda had the same issue Portland had if that was something we wanted to do. Don't mind disagreeing with what the Knicks have done but realistic other options need to be listed or referenced.

Caseloads wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:It's like I wrote this article or something.

His concerns are my concerns. Instead of sitting put and filling out the roster with filler, we're about to ruin our cap for next year. Instead of 60-65m to sign 2 max studs, we can only offer 1.

Today proved players are willing to jump ship if the money and opportunity presented itself.

Shame we're going in another direction.

Yep, exactly what I have been trying to say as well. We wasted our assets for a middling second round exit team. Unless of course like the author suggests we are competing for the 2012 conference finals in which case success is assured.

cap goes up next year and rose is a FA. that's 35 mil in Salary cap space.

Bonn1997 wrote:

Caseloads wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:It's like I wrote this article or something.

His concerns are my concerns. Instead of sitting put and filling out the roster with filler, we're about to ruin our cap for next year. Instead of 60-65m to sign 2 max studs, we can only offer 1.

Today proved players are willing to jump ship if the money and opportunity presented itself.

Shame we're going in another direction.

Yep, exactly what I have been trying to say as well. We wasted our assets for a middling second round exit team. Unless of course like the author suggests we are competing for the 2012 conference finals in which case success is assured.

cap goes up next year and rose is a FA. that's 35 mil in Salary cap space.

But Rose's cap hit is 30 mil. So either we let him go or we use almost the entire cap space on him. Or maybe we can re-sign him cheaper early and then have some cap space left.

If the knicks go over the cap to resign their FAs they will not have $30m in cap space.

Knickoftime wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Caseloads wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:It's like I wrote this article or something.

His concerns are my concerns. Instead of sitting put and filling out the roster with filler, we're about to ruin our cap for next year. Instead of 60-65m to sign 2 max studs, we can only offer 1.

Today proved players are willing to jump ship if the money and opportunity presented itself.

Shame we're going in another direction.

Yep, exactly what I have been trying to say as well. We wasted our assets for a middling second round exit team. Unless of course like the author suggests we are competing for the 2012 conference finals in which case success is assured.

cap goes up next year and rose is a FA. that's 35 mil in Salary cap space.

But Rose's cap hit is 30 mil. So either we let him go or we use almost the entire cap space on him. Or maybe we can re-sign him cheaper early and then have some cap space left.

If the knicks go over the cap to resign their FAs they will not have $30m in cap space.

Depends on how much they go over.

Galloway, Thomas and Williams already have cap holds that factor in. So it is not like you subtract whatever they sign from next year's cap.

The ONLY guy that i think is a must is Lance Thomas. Guys like Galloway-hardworking lunch pail guys-while very important are a dime a dozen in the d-league, from a business perspective. What makes you think Baker cant do most of what Langston can? Derrick would be great to keep too but again, guys who only have one specific skill are more easily replaced. In Williams case if his salary is going to explode, look into guys like filling his spot with Takato (since lance is goint to be the 6th man if resigned) or even a budget Lance Stephenson.