Panos wrote:who is erstnnever?

HofstraBBall wrote:

Vmart wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Clean wrote:Sorry but I and still fine with trading both of them. I am sure a lot of people will look better if they are playing with arguably the 2nd best basketball player ever. The facts remain the same they did not fit with our team. We don't have a super star and 2 all stars. We actually had to rely on them to play consistently. The Cavs have so much talent they can still win when those two disappear for multiple games at a time.

EXHIBIT 3. The everything or nothing mentality. Perhaps we did not have LeBron to help them win a chip. But we did have the ability to win 54 games with them just a year removed. JR won a sixth man award and Shump will be one of the best wing defenders for years to come. Funny how we keep talking about needing a tough wing defender to stop every point guard from flying through us.

Like you said we don't have a LeBron. We had Kidd who was able to maximize their talents. It still about having that elite talent that take players and gives them a role to play. The problem here was the lack of elite talent. Without that elite talent role player expectations are going to be beyond what they can give you.

Agree. Do you think we should have received some compensation in the trade for them though? Amd just pointing out the typical mentality us as fans have due to frustration of losing. But feel that even front offices have that knee jerk reaction without fully evaluating players and circumstances. Don't get me wrong, don'think they were All Stars, but feel Smith was an above average athletic guy with lots of talent and Shump, as you said, was asked to do too much but will be a solid defender in the league for many years. Talents that were not appreciated but are needed and have value in the league

It's tough to know if compensation should be receive when dealing with role players as they are easily replaced. Hardest part is getting that Elite talent. LeBron with this current Knicks team gets to the finals too.

Papabear wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

blkexec wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

Nalod wrote:JR was a throw in to whom Lebron was able to rehabilitate to be a good role player.

PHil had to clean house of the loser mentality and those unbelievers to his triangle. They were not suited to be team leaders or maintain being a prime time player in NYC. JR always had the talent, but not the head. Shump's injury prone and inconsistent shot made him a bad fit and he was not going to eat 10mm a year off our cap.

They had love trade value. Kudo's for them in a support role and now have rings. Same for the Moz and Channing!

Lebron trying to make himself look like the god of basketball saying he took on JR and changed him but he was the EXACT same player he was for us....EXACT. The only thing that he changed was being a dummy off the court which was only because he wasn't in New York where the party scene never stops.

JR was not the exact same player. Phil helped JR grow up, along with what you said as far as Clevland vs NY night life. But when JR was traded, that woke him up. And his parents or Dad must have drilled him about growing up and changing your habits, or the league will spit you out and let you rot. Phil saved JR's career.

JR didn't go to Clev wanting to start. He came to Clev ready to play his role, be a professional....Which is what Phil wanted from him. But it took JR to be traded for him to straighten up!

That's all great but you didn't tell me how he was not the same player besides off the court which i already said he changed?? He was the same inconsistent player he was for us. He would shoot it lights out one night and then go 4/5 games missing 7-10 3 point shots, he was a decent defender just like with us but would commit stupid fouls just like with us and get some techs just like with us. Same player

Papabear Says

You know some of you guys will never get it. Thats why we may go another 10 years before we become a real playoff team. We are quick to throw someone under the bus. JR and Shump played well. Thats also why players don't like coming to New York to play. Who are we gonna get this summer? No one!JR and Shump got there rings and I am happy for them. Phil Jackson pulled the trigger on them without getting anything back. This is about the players and Phil still think its about him.

So your blaming the fans? Yes, Phil thinks its about "Him"! If you think "him" is about JR "messing up" while in NY, then yeah, its about "HIm" Not wanting that on your team. If about Shump not being a quality player going forward, then yeah. You think phil REJECTED better offers to make a point? Do you think phil some how devalued these guys THEN traded them?

fishmike wrote:

Panos wrote:who is erstnnever?

This guy's rarely talked about little bro

You two must be dating. As you both have the rare affinity for spell check. Sorry, will preview next time, maybe.

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:You want to give JR credit for something? How about this... he didn't shoot. He played good defense and let better players take the important shots.

Ah.. great points? So a guy who plays 30-40 minutes a game in a play off series has no impact on a series? You must coach. As mentioned, not defending or comparing JR'S or Shump's games to anyone. Just congratulating former Knicks and pointing out the obvious. Sorry. Fans specially New Yorkers, like to piss and moan about every player if the don't win a chip. Rarely looking at any atributes or ways of developing the player. They rather dump everyone for the next long shot or future draft pick. How has that worked for us? It does make it easier to talk about the "what if" Bull**** though. As everyone is a wannabe GM. Just surprised that a front office who is hired to be at a higher level than the couch experts would let assets go without compensation.

I will say it again.. there are 50 other equally average players in the NBA you could swap out for JR or Shump and Cle wins a title.

JR shot 40%. Shump shot 30%. They both had entire games where they had zero impact. They both had a few nice moments. Shump is crappy player with a worse contract. The Knicks got the best season JR will most likely ever have in the NBA and it was a lot of fun. Of course he totally tanked in the playoffs for us but hey... water under a bridge

fishmike wrote:There are 50 other players in the NBA the Cavs could have won a title with if you swapped them out with JR/Shump. They played OK in very limited roles. JR gives you 10ppg and shoots 40%. Shump gives you 3ppg and shoots 30%. How much credit for the Cav's success are people dishing out to these guys?

The X factor was Triston Thompson who gave the Cavs a really nice boost and was the 3rd best player on the floor for them as Love was totally exposed (again) as non impact stat collector. Aside from that the series came down to Lebron being the best player (by a lot), Irving was an unstoppable scorer and Curry missed shots that he needs to hit for GS to win.

Knicks got the best season out of JR that he will probably ever have in the NBA, and not for one minute to I wish we still had Shump or that joke of a contract that the Cavs signed him too.

But yea.. congrats to them lol. They are Champs!

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Panos wrote:who is erstnnever?

This guy's rarely talked about little bro

You two must be dating. As you both have the rare affinity for spell check. Sorry, will preview next time, maybe.

no.. your just so focused on being right and proving your epic basketball genius to realize a simple joke has taken place.

Being right? About congrats? Nah. It was funny joke though. And I was just joking as well.

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:You want to give JR credit for something? How about this... he didn't shoot. He played good defense and let better players take the important shots.

Ah.. great points? So a guy who plays 30-40 minutes a game in a play off series has no impact on a series? You must coach. As mentioned, not defending or comparing JR'S or Shump's games to anyone. Just congratulating former Knicks and pointing out the obvious. Sorry. Fans specially New Yorkers, like to piss and moan about every player if the don't win a chip. Rarely looking at any atributes or ways of developing the player. They rather dump everyone for the next long shot or future draft pick. How has that worked for us? It does make it easier to talk about the "what if" Bull**** though. As everyone is a wannabe GM. Just surprised that a front office who is hired to be at a higher level than the couch experts would let assets go without compensation.

Im sorry if I missed the point... I didn't realize this was a "HofstraBBall is trying to make a point and if you don't agree your just another dmub NY fan" thread.

I will say it again.. there are 50 other equally average players in the NBA you could swap out for JR or Shump and Cle wins a title.

JR shot 40%. Shump shot 30%. They both had entire games where they had zero impact. They both had a few nice moments. Shump is crappy player with a worse contract. The Knicks got the best season JR will most likely ever have in the NBA and it was a lot of fun. Of course he totally tanked in the playoffs for us but hey... water under a bridge

Now I see were the "Focused on being right" comment comes from. Your still wasting your breath/typing/stat check on JR. Cuz.....YOU have to be right. He was not the MVP and he was just a role player for Knicks. Agreed. And you think he had no value or impact on the win. Got it. Again Congrats to Smith and Shump, players New York fans never appreciated.

Bonn1997 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:And according to Ayesha Curry, everyone of the Cavs is but a role player, who don't even control their own destiny...

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/ayeshacurry/status/744734620134965249

Yup...the deity had a plan for this series, and probably caused the NBA to suspend Green.

People should know their role and she should understand that no one cares what she thinks. She's venturing into Diva territory when her only claim to fame is being married to someone else that matters.

Ouch. She has 609K followers.

No one would care what she thinks if her husband wasn't one of the best basketball players to set foot on a basketball court.*

Sangfroid wrote:

Nalod wrote:JR was a throw in to whom Lebron was able to rehabilitate to be a good role player.

PHil had to clean house of the loser mentality and those unbelievers to his triangle. They were not suited to be team leaders or maintain being a prime time player in NYC. JR always had the talent, but not the head. Shump's injury prone and inconsistent shot made him a bad fit and he was not going to eat 10mm a year off our cap.

They had love trade value. Kudo's for them in a support role and now have rings. Same for the Moz and Channing!

I can't understand all these kudos for JR and Shump. JR partied thru his final years. Lest we forget the Rhianna ribbing, him being more interested in chasing tail thru out our playoff run. And his own admission of partying too much, instead of keeping his head and body in the game. Or, our coddling of Shumpert for 4 years, hoping that he would develop into some king of useful role player. Hats off to Lebron and Ohio nor finally centering these players, and allowing them to become more mature and focused. We saw that the New York glare, nightlife and pressure was more then they could bear.