ChuckBuck wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Nalod wrote:Lebron has been king of this generation. Jordan reigned over his.
When you go to the finals 7 times in 10 years, your the king.

LeBron is the best of this generation hands down. I have respect for his talent I still think if in West he gets to only 2 finals. He might have two titles and some conference appearances. The out come of his finals appearances is more about the state of the east than his ability to get to the finals. Choosing destinations seems more like NBA Marketing scam more than anything else.

He might not even have a ring if he's out west conceivably. Going against OKC and San Antonio and the 2 LA teams(when the Lakers were good). He might be ringless if not for cruising through the East, year after year.

What are you thiking. The "Tulsa Lebrons". Lebron plays 1 on 5 and has his own team?

Use some imagination. Say Lebron was drafted the year before, that was the Rockets picking Ming. Say Lebron is there. Now, do you think they do the same trade to get Mcrady? Or they go in another direction?
I say they do, using assets for that trade in another capacity. Obviously, everything changes.

Even you understand that time and events can't always be repeated or reconstructed as the same.

So Lebron on Rockets perhaps changes every thing. Lebron if he made his way to Los Angeles might have embraced a relationship with Dr. Buss and formed a partnership of trust and he stays. At the time, Kobe was very uncoachable and perhaps a trade happens. Variables, they count.

Nalod wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Nalod wrote:Lebron has been king of this generation. Jordan reigned over his.
When you go to the finals 7 times in 10 years, your the king.

LeBron is the best of this generation hands down. I have respect for his talent I still think if in West he gets to only 2 finals. He might have two titles and some conference appearances. The out come of his finals appearances is more about the state of the east than his ability to get to the finals. Choosing destinations seems more like NBA Marketing scam more than anything else.

Ok, but what team is he in the west? Its not like he is his own franchise! He exercised his right to move to Miami and then back to Cleveland. Jordan was not the "King" until he was in his late 20's and winning championships. If he was with a franchise that he could not wake up and think he could win with ever day, based on his personality I could see him wanting to move to another city.

He was also paid very well!!

But what city? What if he was drafted by Seattle/OKC instead of Durant? Or in Portland instead of Oden? What if that franchise built around him via draft? What if Portland's owner realized what a dick he was and that he'd lose him for nothing decided to trade him?
The notion of "Out west" has way too many variables. Have at it though and see if you can create one.

ChuckBuck wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Nalod wrote:Lebron has been king of this generation. Jordan reigned over his.
When you go to the finals 7 times in 10 years, your the king.

LeBron is the best of this generation hands down. I have respect for his talent I still think if in West he gets to only 2 finals. He might have two titles and some conference appearances. The out come of his finals appearances is more about the state of the east than his ability to get to the finals. Choosing destinations seems more like NBA Marketing scam more than anything else.

He might not even have a ring if he's out west conceivably. Going against OKC and San Antonio and the 2 LA teams(when the Lakers were good). He might be ringless if not for cruising through the East, year after year.

I'm giving him a couple of titles because he won 2 finals vs the west. But you scenario is definitely plausible. This current final has manipulation all over it now and honestly with Green suspension by the league forcing extra games. The NBA just made the finals a clown show. They devalued the meaning of the game the purpose of the game. So now everyone knows when the NBA wants money they just manipulate the outcome of games.

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Nalod wrote:Lebron has been king of this generation. Jordan reigned over his.
When you go to the finals 7 times in 10 years, your the king.

LeBron is the best of this generation hands down. I have respect for his talent I still think if in West he gets to only 2 finals. He might have two titles and some conference appearances. The out come of his finals appearances is more about the state of the east than his ability to get to the finals. Choosing destinations seems more like NBA Marketing scam more than anything else.

Ok, but what team is he in the west? Its not like he is his own franchise! He exercised his right to move to Miami and then back to Cleveland. Jordan was not the "King" until he was in his late 20's and winning championships. If he was with a franchise that he could not wake up and think he could win with ever day, based on his personality I could see him wanting to move to another city.

He was also paid very well!!

But what city? What if he was drafted by Seattle/OKC instead of Durant? Or in Portland instead of Oden? What if that franchise built around him via draft? What if Portland's owner realized what a dick he was and that he'd lose him for nothing decided to trade him?
The notion of "Out west" has way too many variables. Have at it though and see if you can create one.

That was my reaction too but I think he means if Lebron's miami and Cleveland teams played in the west.

Yes, consider halfway decent roster construction on whatever team he was on...he might not even advance to the finals in the competitive west with all those stacked teams.

but there were 2 years where his teams beat the winner of the western conference!?

Remember in 2012 and 2013, his teams were able to steamroll the Knicks, Bucks, and Rose-less Bulls in the early rounds. His Heat came out of the East without any true attrition.

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Nalod wrote:Lebron has been king of this generation. Jordan reigned over his.
When you go to the finals 7 times in 10 years, your the king.

LeBron is the best of this generation hands down. I have respect for his talent I still think if in West he gets to only 2 finals. He might have two titles and some conference appearances. The out come of his finals appearances is more about the state of the east than his ability to get to the finals. Choosing destinations seems more like NBA Marketing scam more than anything else.

Ok, but what team is he in the west? Its not like he is his own franchise! He exercised his right to move to Miami and then back to Cleveland. Jordan was not the "King" until he was in his late 20's and winning championships. If he was with a franchise that he could not wake up and think he could win with ever day, based on his personality I could see him wanting to move to another city.

He was also paid very well!!

But what city? What if he was drafted by Seattle/OKC instead of Durant? Or in Portland instead of Oden? What if that franchise built around him via draft? What if Portland's owner realized what a dick he was and that he'd lose him for nothing decided to trade him?
The notion of "Out west" has way too many variables. Have at it though and see if you can create one.

That was my reaction too but I think he means if Lebron's miami and Cleveland teams played in the west.

Yes, consider halfway decent roster construction on whatever team he was on...he might not even advance to the finals in the competitive west with all those stacked teams.

but there were 2 years where his teams beat the winner of the western conference!?

Remember in 2012 and 2013, his teams were able to steamroll the Knicks, Bucks, and Rose-less Bulls in the early rounds. His Heat came out of the East without any true attrition.

But his team then beat the winner of the west.

Easier road ahead, point still stands. Easier to advance in a conference with several teams that might not make the playoffs if they were in the Western Conference. Compare the Eastern conference teams his Miami and Cleveland teams have beaten with prime Dirk, Pop and the Big 4 in San Antonio, OKC's dynamic duo, prime Kobe/Odom/Pau/Bynum/Artest and coach Jackson.

Yes he beat the Spurs in 2013(in 7 games), but the very next year in 2014 look what happened against the same team.

Nalod wrote:Chuck, you just laid out a great explanation for Melo to have his lack of playoff success!!!!
The west was STACKED!!!!
And no, old Iverson, over rated lazy Nene and Kenyan Martin was not a great cast!!!!
In my book, I never thought Denver was all that great then, but then I don't have an agenda.
and for the record, I was never a Melo fan at all.

So "He", as you said, "Beat the Spurs", etc, you make assumptions that "He" vs. a team is all that. "He" cannot do it alone.
Melo is further down the food chain as we all can agree. No man is an Island. Even Jordan had 4 other guys on the floor with him.

Good job Chucky!

Don't forget Camby, early Birdman, early JR, still in his prime Billups. Talent around him was never an issue.

Melo just couldn't get his team over the hump in either conference. Only made it to 1 Western Conference Finals. Though Lebron would struggle in the Western Conference no matter what, his greatest feat in my eyes was willing the 2007 Cleveland Cavaliers as a 22 year old to the NBA Finals. To bring a cast of characters like Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Drew Gooden, Larry Hughes, Eric Snow, and Sasha Pavlovic to the NBA Finals is accomplishment in itself no matter if they got swept.

If Lebron started as a rookie in the West and stayed there, he'd probably make 1 or 2 total NBA Finals appearances. That's just how tough the West is.

Nalod wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Nalod wrote:Chuck, you just laid out a great explanation for Melo to have his lack of playoff success!!!!
The west was STACKED!!!!
And no, old Iverson, over rated lazy Nene and Kenyan Martin was not a great cast!!!!
In my book, I never thought Denver was all that great then, but then I don't have an agenda.
and for the record, I was never a Melo fan at all.

So "He", as you said, "Beat the Spurs", etc, you make assumptions that "He" vs. a team is all that. "He" cannot do it alone.
Melo is further down the food chain as we all can agree. No man is an Island. Even Jordan had 4 other guys on the floor with him.

Good job Chucky!

Don't forget Camby, early Birdman, early JR, still in his prime Billups. Talent around him was never an issue.

Melo just couldn't get his team over the hump in either conference. Only made it to 1 Western Conference Finals. Though Lebron would struggle in the Western Conference no matter what, his greatest feat in my eyes was willing the 2007 Cleveland Cavaliers as a 22 year old to the NBA Finals. To bring a cast of characters like Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Drew Gooden, Larry Hughes, Eric Snow, and Sasha Pavlovic to the NBA Finals is accomplishment in itself no matter if they got swept.

If Lebron started as a rookie in the West and stayed there, he'd probably make 1 or 2 total NBA Finals appearances. That's just how tough the West is.

Except Billups, none that you mentioned had a blue chip experience. Early JR is early bone head, Camby never showed the clutch gene, Birdman was on smack.
On paper it was a talented team, and conf. finals is no joke. But against the Spurs and Lakers, of which they usually had to face one or the other, and the PHX suns who were among the best team to never make a final, the notion that the Nugg's, a team of misfit bone heads lead by the very stable billups, should have succeeded far greater, might be a stretch.

The west was stacked more for hypothetical Western Lebron than real Nuggy Melo?

Bonehead off the court or not, Early JR actually had a higher win shares per 48 than Melo the year the Nuggets went to Western Conference Finals. Camby was a perennial All NBA Defensive 1st team and won a Defensive Player of the Year during his time along side Melo. Billups, the name speaks for itself, clutch gene personified. If Lebron had this cast out west during his early career, he'd probably have 3 rings already.

ChuckBuck wrote:

Nalod wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Nalod wrote:Chuck, you just laid out a great explanation for Melo to have his lack of playoff success!!!!
The west was STACKED!!!!
And no, old Iverson, over rated lazy Nene and Kenyan Martin was not a great cast!!!!
In my book, I never thought Denver was all that great then, but then I don't have an agenda.
and for the record, I was never a Melo fan at all.

So "He", as you said, "Beat the Spurs", etc, you make assumptions that "He" vs. a team is all that. "He" cannot do it alone.
Melo is further down the food chain as we all can agree. No man is an Island. Even Jordan had 4 other guys on the floor with him.

Good job Chucky!

Don't forget Camby, early Birdman, early JR, still in his prime Billups. Talent around him was never an issue.

Melo just couldn't get his team over the hump in either conference. Only made it to 1 Western Conference Finals. Though Lebron would struggle in the Western Conference no matter what, his greatest feat in my eyes was willing the 2007 Cleveland Cavaliers as a 22 year old to the NBA Finals. To bring a cast of characters like Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Drew Gooden, Larry Hughes, Eric Snow, and Sasha Pavlovic to the NBA Finals is accomplishment in itself no matter if they got swept.

If Lebron started as a rookie in the West and stayed there, he'd probably make 1 or 2 total NBA Finals appearances. That's just how tough the West is.

Except Billups, none that you mentioned had a blue chip experience. Early JR is early bone head, Camby never showed the clutch gene, Birdman was on smack.
On paper it was a talented team, and conf. finals is no joke. But against the Spurs and Lakers, of which they usually had to face one or the other, and the PHX suns who were among the best team to never make a final, the notion that the Nugg's, a team of misfit bone heads lead by the very stable billups, should have succeeded far greater, might be a stretch.

The west was stacked more for hypothetical Western Lebron than real Nuggy Melo?

Bonehead off the court or not, Early JR actually had a higher win shares per 48 than Melo the year the Nuggets went to Western Conference Finals. Camby was a perennial All NBA Defensive 1st team and won a Defensive Player of the Year during his time along side Melo. Billups, the name speaks for itself, clutch gene personified. If Lebron had this cast out west during his early career, he'd probably have 3 rings already.

Holy sheehit. He's doing JR commercials. It's actually come to this. Oh wait, Lin Love, JR Love...easy to 'splain.

Next up, Chucky will explain to us all how if Lebron was only here with Raymond Felton and Tyson Chandler, we'd have 5 or 6 chips by now...

Bonn1997 wrote:

sidsanders wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

MS wrote:Pippen and Rodman for all time great's. HOF players, top 50 all time. Everything is relative.

Last year's finals he played with no guy Tristan Thompson and averaged the following.

35.8pts 13.3rbs 8.8ass 1.3 blocks

Jordan nor Kobe could have won that NBA finals nor against the Spurs. Kobe would have missed the playoffs with that team.

This series he has not played well.

24.8pts 11rbs 8.7pts 1.8blks 2.3stls

vs

21.5pts 5rbs 4.8ass 1stls

Curry is somehow absolved...

Yeah, and Jordan or Kobe couldn't have put up that kind of production either.

jordan, not so sure i would agree he didnt/couldnt put up close or in some cases better stats. he still has the finals ppg record at 41 (8.5rbs, 6.3ast) vs phx. his first finals: 31, 11ast, 6.6rbs, 1.4blks.

Hmmm. I didn't realize he averaged 11 assists a game for a series. I see he had some years where his rebounding stats were better than I thought too. I guess I should have just said Kobe.

Jordan had some NBA finals close to what lebron is doing, but kobe should never ever ever ever be in the same conversation as these 2. Why he has somehow become the bridge between the 2 in NBA history is beyond me. I guess its his position. But it never made sense. He just isn't in the same galaxy.

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Nalod wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Nalod wrote:Chuck, you just laid out a great explanation for Melo to have his lack of playoff success!!!!
The west was STACKED!!!!
And no, old Iverson, over rated lazy Nene and Kenyan Martin was not a great cast!!!!
In my book, I never thought Denver was all that great then, but then I don't have an agenda.
and for the record, I was never a Melo fan at all.

So "He", as you said, "Beat the Spurs", etc, you make assumptions that "He" vs. a team is all that. "He" cannot do it alone.
Melo is further down the food chain as we all can agree. No man is an Island. Even Jordan had 4 other guys on the floor with him.

Good job Chucky!

Don't forget Camby, early Birdman, early JR, still in his prime Billups. Talent around him was never an issue.

Melo just couldn't get his team over the hump in either conference. Only made it to 1 Western Conference Finals. Though Lebron would struggle in the Western Conference no matter what, his greatest feat in my eyes was willing the 2007 Cleveland Cavaliers as a 22 year old to the NBA Finals. To bring a cast of characters like Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Drew Gooden, Larry Hughes, Eric Snow, and Sasha Pavlovic to the NBA Finals is accomplishment in itself no matter if they got swept.

If Lebron started as a rookie in the West and stayed there, he'd probably make 1 or 2 total NBA Finals appearances. That's just how tough the West is.

Except Billups, none that you mentioned had a blue chip experience. Early JR is early bone head, Camby never showed the clutch gene, Birdman was on smack.
On paper it was a talented team, and conf. finals is no joke. But against the Spurs and Lakers, of which they usually had to face one or the other, and the PHX suns who were among the best team to never make a final, the notion that the Nugg's, a team of misfit bone heads lead by the very stable billups, should have succeeded far greater, might be a stretch.

The west was stacked more for hypothetical Western Lebron than real Nuggy Melo?

Bonehead off the court or not, Early JR actually had a higher win shares per 48 than Melo the year the Nuggets went to Western Conference Finals. Camby was a perennial All NBA Defensive 1st team and won a Defensive Player of the Year during his time along side Melo. Billups, the name speaks for itself, clutch gene personified. If Lebron had this cast out west during his early career, he'd probably have 3 rings already.

Camby has never even been an all-star before. LeBron has played 6 seasons in the east with 2 all-stars next to him and only has 2 title. The west was as tough as ever during that era. Add this to another "ridiculous things Chuck says" nominee.

Not as ridiculous as this impressive resume.

Here's some accurate facts about favorite Knick Carmelo Anthony:
1)Never won a MVP
2)Never advanced to the NBA Finals
3)Never made an All NBA First team or All NBA Defensive team
4)Never averaged 50% FG percentage for a single season
5)Never averaged 5 assists in a single season
6)Never made it out of the 2nd round in a weak east
7)Never had a coach on the Knicks that lasted more than a couple seasons (played for 5 different head coaches already)
8)Never should have played in that All Star game delaying much needed rehab helping lead to his god awful start to this season
9)Never should have resigned with the Knicks knowing we were in a rebuild, and would have multiple losing seasons, taking over a third of our cap, leaving us with likes of role players like Robin Lopez, Arron Affalo, and Derrick Williams to choose from (no offense to mighty RoLo fans).
10)Never should have insisted on that NTC that now handicaps the franchise that made him wealthy 10 times over, leaving them no choice but to sit idly while he collects unwarranted paycheck after paycheck until 2019.

You have stated these "facts" in every thread and again, i don't understand the point. Not one person is saying he is near LeBron level, an MVP level player, or deserving of any sort of all-time great claim. So you are literally arguing these facts with yourself. I agree with them. I am not against those who do not like Melo. He has many flaws and is far from an all-time great. I am simply against those who make such extreme claims out of hate that they come across as having poor knowledge of basketball.

True, I agree whole heartedly with you. He's nowhere close. No extreme claims, just stating simple facts about a player that's taking up a third of our cap, is 32 with bad knees, and will slowly diminish into nothingness his last 3 years on our favorite team, that's all.

BTW, I'm not the one that dragged Melo into this Lebron conversation, that'd be the forever insightful(but always wrong) Nalod.