crzymdups wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/mike_bresnahan/status/726497932237672448

Guess we know why he didn't want to coach the Knicks.

This is my main problem with the Triangle here - does it make sense for the personnel. We have Grant and KP who could thrive in a pick and roll, pace and space offense. We force them into the Triangle.

Fisher didn't want to do that. It is at least PART of the reason he was fired, per Rambis and Phil.

It's a problem going forward.

Hopefully if Blatt comes here, he is given more autonomy.

Completely absurd. A system should not be based upon the strengths of your roster, better more modern successful systems nor a system better suited for most of today's NBA players. It should be predicated on the President of operations antiquated philosophy and personal preference. But what does Luke know, he is just merely a disciple.

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:now why would Luke go all out of his way to mention the GS system has elements of the triangle? Why? Why would GS incorporate elements of a non-modern and arcane offense that cant be grasped by todays players? No.. Luke went out of his way to mention the triangle. To defend it. To cherish it. I think we can close this case. Walton and Kerr are triangle guys. Good enough for me. So they run their own version. Cool on them! This quote carries the weight of like 80 Berman/Isola articles.

He was interviewed by a GSW beat writer. There was literally no agenda. It's worthwhile and notable to ask a new, young, highly sought after coach about his philosophy.

And if Golden State incorporates so much Triangle, why is Phil so threatened by how many 3s they take?

The level of hearsay and circumstantial evidence that guys are riding like gospel around here is reaching new levels every day.

I mean since Isola and Berman haven't reported anything we have guys that are 100% sure the Knicks front office isn't doing any search at all. They never had so much as an internal discussion on Thibs right? Never weighed the pros on cons on him before reaching out or deciding not to reach out?

There are broad sweeping judgments being made with 8% of the information available.

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:now why would Luke go all out of his way to mention the GS system has elements of the triangle? Why? Why would GS incorporate elements of a non-modern and arcane offense that cant be grasped by todays players? No.. Luke went out of his way to mention the triangle. To defend it. To cherish it. I think we can close this case. Walton and Kerr are triangle guys. Good enough for me. So they run their own version. Cool on them! This quote carries the weight of like 80 Berman/Isola articles.

He was interviewed by a GSW beat writer. There was literally no agenda. It's worthwhile and notable to ask a new, young, highly sought after coach about his philosophy.

And if Golden State incorporates so much Triangle, why is Phil so threatened by how many 3s they take?

can you establish the link between a tweet and being threatened? I guess that's kind of my point. Being a bit tongue and cheek here but seriously I find this notion that Phil is threatened or driven to prove his philosophy to whoever laughable. I mean the connection between "hows it goink" and "Phil is threatened" is pretty freakin thin. Maybe Phil's call to Luke was to congrat him on the job, but also to please mention the triangle and good it is if any reporters ask?

The level of hearsay and circumstantial evidence that guys are riding like gospel around here is reaching new levels every day.

I mean since Isola and Berman haven't reported anything we have guys that are 100% sure the Knicks front office isn't doing any search at all. They never had so much as an internal discussion on Thibs right? Never weighed the pros on cons on him before reaching out or deciding not to reach out?

There are broad sweeping judgments being made with 8% of the information available.

You say circumstantial evidence, I say reading between the lines.

Everything Phil has done has proven out the idea that he is interested in proving the Triangle as a valid system. One reason he is interested in doing that is because he is a little salty that people scoff at it and give the credit to Kobe and MJ and Shaq. This has been reported on again and again and again by the very best and most respected writers in the NBA, like Woj, Berger, Beck.

I don't know why you guys are so defensive about Phil. He shat all over the Knicks for years when he was in Chicago. I'm just calling a spade a spade. I'm not basing my opinion on one tweet or quote, it's a series of events over the past 25 years, and I'm coming to a message board to post my opinions about it. Would I call comparing Steph Curry, who had the best single season for a guard since Michael Jordan in 1992, to Mahmoud Abdul Rauf silly and defensive by Phil? Yes. Is that the behavior of someone threatened? Yes. If his tweet about "how's it goink" was so light hearted and off the cuff, why did he feel the need to come back and explain the heck out of his philosophy about the 3pt shot a few days later?

This quote by a writer who followed the 90s Bulls and 00s Lakers and knows the Triangle is very instructive about Phil. He ignores criticism, but he hates it. This dude is an interesting follow on all things Phil and Triangle. He's been posting a lot about Rambis and Walton and Phil lately.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/lazenby/status/723554284776873985

Phil had a system that worked and wants to use it in NY. Isn't that the other side of the coin? Which came first?

crzymdups wrote:

martin wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:now why would Luke go all out of his way to mention the GS system has elements of the triangle? Why? Why would GS incorporate elements of a non-modern and arcane offense that cant be grasped by todays players? No.. Luke went out of his way to mention the triangle. To defend it. To cherish it. I think we can close this case. Walton and Kerr are triangle guys. Good enough for me. So they run their own version. Cool on them! This quote carries the weight of like 80 Berman/Isola articles.

He was interviewed by a GSW beat writer. There was literally no agenda. It's worthwhile and notable to ask a new, young, highly sought after coach about his philosophy.

And if Golden State incorporates so much Triangle, why is Phil so threatened by how many 3s they take?

can you establish the link between a tweet and being threatened? I guess that's kind of my point. Being a bit tongue and cheek here but seriously I find this notion that Phil is threatened or driven to prove his philosophy to whoever laughable. I mean the connection between "hows it goink" and "Phil is threatened" is pretty freakin thin. Maybe Phil's call to Luke was to congrat him on the job, but also to please mention the triangle and good it is if any reporters ask?

The level of hearsay and circumstantial evidence that guys are riding like gospel around here is reaching new levels every day.

I mean since Isola and Berman haven't reported anything we have guys that are 100% sure the Knicks front office isn't doing any search at all. They never had so much as an internal discussion on Thibs right? Never weighed the pros on cons on him before reaching out or deciding not to reach out?

There are broad sweeping judgments being made with 8% of the information available.

You say circumstantial evidence, I say reading between the lines.

Everything Phil has done has proven out the idea that he is interested in proving the Triangle as a valid system. One reason he is interested in doing that is because he is a little salty that people scoff at it and give the credit to Kobe and MJ and Shaq. This has been reported on again and again and again by the very best and most respected writers in the NBA, like Woj, Berger, Beck.

I don't know why you guys are so defensive about Phil. He shat all over the Knicks for years when he was in Chicago. I'm just calling a spade a spade. I'm not basing my opinion on one tweet or quote, it's a series of events over the past 25 years, and I'm coming to a message board to post my opinions about it. Would I call comparing Steph Curry, who had the best single season for a guard since Michael Jordan in 1992, to Mahmoud Abdul Rauf silly and defensive by Phil? Yes. Is that the behavior of someone threatened? Yes. If his tweet about "how's it goink" was so light hearted and off the cuff, why did he feel the need to come back and explain the heck out of his philosophy about the 3pt shot a few days later?

This quote by a writer who followed the 90s Bulls and 00s Lakers and knows the Triangle is very instructive about Phil. He ignores criticism, but he hates it. This dude is an interesting follow on all things Phil and Triangle. He's been posting a lot about Rambis and Walton and Phil lately.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/lazenby/status/723554284776873985

Phil had a system that worked and wants to use it in NY. Isn't that the other side of the coin? Which came first?

Yes, that's an absolute fact. I think his desire to use it here has led to some bad decisions. That's all this is. I think predominantly in the head coaching department. Yet if I point out that his obvious focus on the Triangle has led to some bad decisions all the sudden I'm labeled an irrational hater. Anyway.

You're assumptions could simply be wrong. Phil is building with the Triangle in mind. This helps him in determining the kinds of players he goes after. When he's building he knows what his system needs and that makes it easier to target talent. It doesn't matter what it looks like now. The finished product is what matters and Phil isn't finished putting his roster together.

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

martin wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:now why would Luke go all out of his way to mention the GS system has elements of the triangle? Why? Why would GS incorporate elements of a non-modern and arcane offense that cant be grasped by todays players? No.. Luke went out of his way to mention the triangle. To defend it. To cherish it. I think we can close this case. Walton and Kerr are triangle guys. Good enough for me. So they run their own version. Cool on them! This quote carries the weight of like 80 Berman/Isola articles.

He was interviewed by a GSW beat writer. There was literally no agenda. It's worthwhile and notable to ask a new, young, highly sought after coach about his philosophy.

And if Golden State incorporates so much Triangle, why is Phil so threatened by how many 3s they take?

can you establish the link between a tweet and being threatened? I guess that's kind of my point. Being a bit tongue and cheek here but seriously I find this notion that Phil is threatened or driven to prove his philosophy to whoever laughable. I mean the connection between "hows it goink" and "Phil is threatened" is pretty freakin thin. Maybe Phil's call to Luke was to congrat him on the job, but also to please mention the triangle and good it is if any reporters ask?

The level of hearsay and circumstantial evidence that guys are riding like gospel around here is reaching new levels every day.

I mean since Isola and Berman haven't reported anything we have guys that are 100% sure the Knicks front office isn't doing any search at all. They never had so much as an internal discussion on Thibs right? Never weighed the pros on cons on him before reaching out or deciding not to reach out?

There are broad sweeping judgments being made with 8% of the information available.

You say circumstantial evidence, I say reading between the lines.

Everything Phil has done has proven out the idea that he is interested in proving the Triangle as a valid system. One reason he is interested in doing that is because he is a little salty that people scoff at it and give the credit to Kobe and MJ and Shaq. This has been reported on again and again and again by the very best and most respected writers in the NBA, like Woj, Berger, Beck.

I don't know why you guys are so defensive about Phil. He shat all over the Knicks for years when he was in Chicago. I'm just calling a spade a spade. I'm not basing my opinion on one tweet or quote, it's a series of events over the past 25 years, and I'm coming to a message board to post my opinions about it. Would I call comparing Steph Curry, who had the best single season for a guard since Michael Jordan in 1992, to Mahmoud Abdul Rauf silly and defensive by Phil? Yes. Is that the behavior of someone threatened? Yes. If his tweet about "how's it goink" was so light hearted and off the cuff, why did he feel the need to come back and explain the heck out of his philosophy about the 3pt shot a few days later?

This quote by a writer who followed the 90s Bulls and 00s Lakers and knows the Triangle is very instructive about Phil. He ignores criticism, but he hates it. This dude is an interesting follow on all things Phil and Triangle. He's been posting a lot about Rambis and Walton and Phil lately.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/lazenby/status/723554284776873985

Phil had a system that worked and wants to use it in NY. Isn't that the other side of the coin? Which came first?

Yes, that's an absolute fact. I think his desire to use it here has led to some bad decisions. That's all this is. I think predominantly in the head coaching department. Yet if I point out that his obvious focus on the Triangle has led to some bad decisions all the sudden I'm labeled an irrational hater. Anyway.

You're assumptions could simply be wrong. Phil is building with the Triangle in mind. This helps him in determining the kinds of players he goes after. When he's building he knows what his system needs and that makes it easier to target talent. It doesn't matter what it looks like now. The finished product is what matters and Phil isn't finished putting his roster together.

Yeah, well one of the players he thought would be good to run the Triangle was Jose Calderon, so maybe Phil's assumptions could simply be wrong, too.

crzymdups wrote:

martin wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:now why would Luke go all out of his way to mention the GS system has elements of the triangle? Why? Why would GS incorporate elements of a non-modern and arcane offense that cant be grasped by todays players? No.. Luke went out of his way to mention the triangle. To defend it. To cherish it. I think we can close this case. Walton and Kerr are triangle guys. Good enough for me. So they run their own version. Cool on them! This quote carries the weight of like 80 Berman/Isola articles.

He was interviewed by a GSW beat writer. There was literally no agenda. It's worthwhile and notable to ask a new, young, highly sought after coach about his philosophy.

And if Golden State incorporates so much Triangle, why is Phil so threatened by how many 3s they take?

can you establish the link between a tweet and being threatened? I guess that's kind of my point. Being a bit tongue and cheek here but seriously I find this notion that Phil is threatened or driven to prove his philosophy to whoever laughable. I mean the connection between "hows it goink" and "Phil is threatened" is pretty freakin thin. Maybe Phil's call to Luke was to congrat him on the job, but also to please mention the triangle and good it is if any reporters ask?

The level of hearsay and circumstantial evidence that guys are riding like gospel around here is reaching new levels every day.

I mean since Isola and Berman haven't reported anything we have guys that are 100% sure the Knicks front office isn't doing any search at all. They never had so much as an internal discussion on Thibs right? Never weighed the pros on cons on him before reaching out or deciding not to reach out?

There are broad sweeping judgments being made with 8% of the information available.

You say circumstantial evidence, I say reading between the lines.

Everything Phil has done has proven out the idea that he is interested in proving the Triangle as a valid system. One reason he is interested in doing that is because he is a little salty that people scoff at it and give the credit to Kobe and MJ and Shaq. This has been reported on again and again and again by the very best and most respected writers in the NBA, like Woj, Berger, Beck.

I don't know why you guys are so defensive about Phil. He shat all over the Knicks for years when he was in Chicago. I'm just calling a spade a spade. I'm not basing my opinion on one tweet or quote, it's a series of events over the past 25 years, and I'm coming to a message board to post my opinions about it. Would I call comparing Steph Curry, who had the best single season for a guard since Michael Jordan in 1992, to Mahmoud Abdul Rauf silly and defensive by Phil? Yes. Is that the behavior of someone threatened? Yes. If his tweet about "how's it goink" was so light hearted and off the cuff, why did he feel the need to come back and explain the heck out of his philosophy about the 3pt shot a few days later?

This quote by a writer who followed the 90s Bulls and 00s Lakers and knows the Triangle is very instructive about Phil. He ignores criticism, but he hates it. This dude is an interesting follow on all things Phil and Triangle. He's been posting a lot about Rambis and Walton and Phil lately.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/lazenby/status/723554284776873985

Phil had a system that worked and wants to use it in NY. Isn't that the other side of the coin? Which came first?

Yes, that's an absolute fact. I think his desire to use it here has led to some bad decisions. That's all this is. I think predominantly in the head coaching department. Yet if I point out that his obvious focus on the Triangle has led to some bad decisions all the sudden I'm labeled an irrational hater. Anyway.

The post Ewing circus Knicks have been plagued by no accountability, especially with the players. When you have a system and clearly defined expectations it sets up a higher level of accountability and transparency. This is the goal. The system is yes... the triangle because its Phil Jackson and that's what he knows. Just like when MDA got here what did he run? Same **** he ran with the Suns. These guys do what works for them.

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

martin wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:now why would Luke go all out of his way to mention the GS system has elements of the triangle? Why? Why would GS incorporate elements of a non-modern and arcane offense that cant be grasped by todays players? No.. Luke went out of his way to mention the triangle. To defend it. To cherish it. I think we can close this case. Walton and Kerr are triangle guys. Good enough for me. So they run their own version. Cool on them! This quote carries the weight of like 80 Berman/Isola articles.

He was interviewed by a GSW beat writer. There was literally no agenda. It's worthwhile and notable to ask a new, young, highly sought after coach about his philosophy.

And if Golden State incorporates so much Triangle, why is Phil so threatened by how many 3s they take?

can you establish the link between a tweet and being threatened? I guess that's kind of my point. Being a bit tongue and cheek here but seriously I find this notion that Phil is threatened or driven to prove his philosophy to whoever laughable. I mean the connection between "hows it goink" and "Phil is threatened" is pretty freakin thin. Maybe Phil's call to Luke was to congrat him on the job, but also to please mention the triangle and good it is if any reporters ask?

The level of hearsay and circumstantial evidence that guys are riding like gospel around here is reaching new levels every day.

I mean since Isola and Berman haven't reported anything we have guys that are 100% sure the Knicks front office isn't doing any search at all. They never had so much as an internal discussion on Thibs right? Never weighed the pros on cons on him before reaching out or deciding not to reach out?

There are broad sweeping judgments being made with 8% of the information available.

You say circumstantial evidence, I say reading between the lines.

Everything Phil has done has proven out the idea that he is interested in proving the Triangle as a valid system. One reason he is interested in doing that is because he is a little salty that people scoff at it and give the credit to Kobe and MJ and Shaq. This has been reported on again and again and again by the very best and most respected writers in the NBA, like Woj, Berger, Beck.

I don't know why you guys are so defensive about Phil. He shat all over the Knicks for years when he was in Chicago. I'm just calling a spade a spade. I'm not basing my opinion on one tweet or quote, it's a series of events over the past 25 years, and I'm coming to a message board to post my opinions about it. Would I call comparing Steph Curry, who had the best single season for a guard since Michael Jordan in 1992, to Mahmoud Abdul Rauf silly and defensive by Phil? Yes. Is that the behavior of someone threatened? Yes. If his tweet about "how's it goink" was so light hearted and off the cuff, why did he feel the need to come back and explain the heck out of his philosophy about the 3pt shot a few days later?

This quote by a writer who followed the 90s Bulls and 00s Lakers and knows the Triangle is very instructive about Phil. He ignores criticism, but he hates it. This dude is an interesting follow on all things Phil and Triangle. He's been posting a lot about Rambis and Walton and Phil lately.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/lazenby/status/723554284776873985

Phil had a system that worked and wants to use it in NY. Isn't that the other side of the coin? Which came first?

Yes, that's an absolute fact. I think his desire to use it here has led to some bad decisions. That's all this is. I think predominantly in the head coaching department. Yet if I point out that his obvious focus on the Triangle has led to some bad decisions all the sudden I'm labeled an irrational hater. Anyway.

You're assumptions could simply be wrong. Phil is building with the Triangle in mind. This helps him in determining the kinds of players he goes after. When he's building he knows what his system needs and that makes it easier to target talent. It doesn't matter what it looks like now. The finished product is what matters and Phil isn't finished putting his roster together.

Yeah, well one of the players he thought would be good to run the Triangle was Jose Calderon, so maybe Phil's assumptions could simply be wrong, too.

Sure go right to Jose as the example to use of Phil's choices for the roster. Why would anyone hold up Jose after the last 2 years of moves? Well because he wasn't able to add a much better guard Jose stands out, but we all know Phil is actively looking for better guard talent. Drafting, signing Free Agents. Phil is not done yet. Jose has played 2 years here and this year he was actually not as bad as people tend to think he was. Jose had a TS% of 57.1 and a WS/48 of .096 which is about league average. Dude is not the future of the Knicks and people need to relax on bringing him up as if he is.

Speaking of the future. This team is much more future based than people give Phil credit for. Depending on who Phil brings in this summer the ratio of players 26 or younger is going to be the majority of the roster. Still there will be enough vets to help make the team stable. It's going to be a very interesting summer again this year.

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/mike_bresnahan/status/726497932237672448

Guess we know why he didn't want to coach the Knicks.

This is my main problem with the Triangle here - does it make sense for the personnel. We have Grant and KP who could thrive in a pick and roll, pace and space offense. We force them into the Triangle.

Fisher didn't want to do that. It is at least PART of the reason he was fired, per Rambis and Phil.

It's a problem going forward.

Hopefully if Blatt comes here, he is given more autonomy.

it couldn't be that having worked there he knows Laker's management, has roots/ties/maybe even a residence in the area and its his dream job right? Its because of the triangle? Dude you have TFK living in your basement? Take a step back, look at the roster, smoke a J, watch some KP highlights and listen to some Lionel Ritchie

Dude he was a coach in LA, part of Phil's staff who ran the triangle. Not sure what you are saying.

right he was a coach in LA. Knows that team's ownership and FO. You implied he didn't want to the coach the Knicks because of the triangle. Isnt that why it was your first statement after posting that tweet? I am not the triangle police, but there is a real fixation around here on it around here. Its LA vs. NY in the winters. He's familiar with that FO. I mean the triangle is the reason he didn't come to the Knicks? Wow man. Guy is offered his dream job and takes it. How about that?

My point is that some people here, including yourself, tried to claim Walton was a member of Phil's coaching tree. If that were the case, wouldn't he run the Triangle?

And we know Phil wanted to run the Triangle. So the fact that Walton didn't even interview here might have had something to do with the fact that Phil told Walton he'd be expected to run the Triangle.

I think it is extremely noteworthy that one of Phil's supposed top Triangle-friendly coaches has zero interest in running the Triangle.

You dudes are starting to sound like someone trapped in a terrible relationship who keeps making excuses for their lame partner. There is very little defense left of the triangle at this point.

If Phil hires Blatt, I'll cut him some slack. Otherwise we are left with Rambis and Shaw as the only two coaches desperate enough to run the Triangle.

If your GM isn't going to support you in building a team that can excel in the Triangle why would you do that as a coach? It's just not practical. Here in NY Phil is building towards the Triangle. He's much closer than people want to accept.

closer to what?

there hasn't been any guard in the NBA in over 10yrs that has master the triangle, or even excelled in it without a sg like kobe and Jordan sharing the back court, that right there takes all of the pressure off the pg.

Even when we got penetration, it's still a cluster fck in the lane with all the bigs standing 10 feet from the basket.

1)how many times we saw grant trip up in the lane and turn the ball over while penetrating

2)the rare times we saw guards like Caledron, prigs, larking, shump, getting to the lane only to dribble right back out because of a center/pf/sf is right there to meet them at the basket.

3)The spacing is soooooooooo bad (everyone is standing below the 3 point line), and the main reason everyone pulls up for a midrange jumper..

That won't change with new personnel, that's only going to change with a new mind set and systen

There is spacing to attack the rim in the Triangle. No, it's not a 4 out Style where the paint is completely unoccupied. Of course 4 Out offers the MOST space possible, but really that doesn't mean there's no space to attack the rim in the Triangle.

The spacing, motion and passing in the Triangle is what creates the lanes to attack the rim. It's not going to look as wide open as a 4 out style offense but the lanes are there. It would have been impossible for Phil's title teams to win if there were no lanes to attack the rim.

More importantly it's gonna be important for our guards to push the ball and look for more early offense. That's where the young guards will be most important next year. Jerian, Wroten, Gallo, DWill (if he comes back), Thanasis, Early and whoever else Phil brings in can change the entire pace of the team.