dk7th wrote:

mreinman wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

mreinman wrote:

martin wrote:

mreinman wrote:

martin wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:so far it has been a disaster. Put a sh1tty team with a worse than sh1tty record out there without the intention to tank.

he has a lot to prove and fix.

Once again you don't get KP if you keep the inherited Roster! You can keep talking nonsense but at some point you have to explain how it wasn't a good thing that Phil let the team bottom out in the one year we had a 1st rd pick. In that same draft he adds Jerian and Willy. So in your opinion this wasn't a good thing??? Can you not see how that makes no sense?

The starting frontcourt is VERY good and will get better as RoLo continues to improve his offense and KP matures. That basically leaves the 2 guard spots as the only holes. You can't say Phil has a lot to fix when really it's the 2 starting guard spots. If he solves at least one of those spots this summer it's progress. One way or another the coaching situation will be resolved. So i'm not really seeing all this "disaster" you're trying to promote. Instead it looks like a team making incremental progress. 2014-15 roster blown up. 2015-16 roster revamped. 2016-17 look to improve again. Seems to make sense to me.

You can say that if you drive a car of a bridge, live, and land in a pool of gold that "see? its all good."

Rolo was a good signing even though it was what was left after Monroe and there were not many takers for Rolo. Either way, still good.

KP, great but lose another game or two and it could/would have been ok4.

I am still not sold that Jerian is better than THJ.

Hergo we know nothing about but Briggs said that we could have done much better so I am going by his word.

Our backcourt is a disaster and the biggest problem for me is that we don't run nearly enough PnR especially with the new dufus in charge.

Phil fukked up with Kerr by lowballing him and we can just ignore that. Maybe it is what caused him not to come here? Just maybe? Maybe not ... who knows ... it was stupid either way.

Now, we have a system that looks creaky with a coach who seems like a tool with a coaching search that is spread as wide as anyone who knows cobol. PERFECT!

Can phil turn this around? of course he can. Will he? I am quite skeptical being that he seems to care more about proving the triangle than he does about the knicks.

So things haven't been perfect. You have to be able to make adjustments to your plan when things happen. In the end Phil has drafted well. He's put together a very solid Frontcourt. He now has fewer holes to fill. See, if you stop going back and looking for negatives needlessly you can deal with the realities. They have opportunities to improve the roster going forward. They have talent to develop internally. This is not a disaster.

The System isn't creaky. We need to improve the talent on the team at the most important spots. The PG and SG spots are highly impactful on how a team plays. We need to upgrade the production at our guard spots overall. The Triangle has been proven to be able to allow a team to perform at a high level even by today's standards:

2015-16
Rk	Team	                ORtg ▾	Pace
1	Golden State Warriors	115.18	99.3
2	Oklahoma City Thunder	113.76	96.7
3	Cleveland Cavaliers	111.80	93.3
4	Toronto Raptors	        111.11	92.9
5	San Antonio Spurs	111.04	95.8
08-09   Los Angeles Lakers      112.80  94.3
07-08   Los Angeles Lakers      113.00  95.6

If the Triangle was so detrimental to offensive efficiency then those kinds of stats would not be possible. End of argument!!!

I think the fact that the only times the triangle offense was only successful was when it was headed up by Jordan/Pippen, Shaq/Kobe, then Kobe/Gasol, aka by all time greats says a lot more than comparing O ratings of teams playing in essentially different time periods.

Pippen led triangle team without Jordan did very well. Is Pau Gasol considered an all time great?

He was phenomenal in those years and did not miss a shot. As efficient as any big I have seen. Triangle credit? Maybe? Phil certainly gets credit as a great coach and deservedly so but the triangle has not been proven by itself and anyone is saying that it has been is being dishonest.

I would assume that if just one other coach was successful with it, that would be a start. And saying that a team (like SA) is using Triangle Principles is just bs as well.

I don't even know what that means.

Triangle has won with swingmen as the primaries. Won with bigmen. Won with different bigmen.

Triangle has been the MOST successful system since 1990, 2 decade span. Across multiple franchises.

I lot goes into winning. Triangle has been a part of that over the past decades. Spurs only other franchise that seems to continue that tradition of greatness for that amount of time.

you lost me. The triangle has won with MJ and Kobe as the primaries with some off the charts HOF supporting casts.

And golden States system has only won with elite players like Steph Curry and Green, and the Spurs system has only won with Tim Duncan & company- which team hasn't won with elite HOF supporting casts?

that is exactly the point and why JVG in his great Zach Lowe interview says that you need to run a system that fits your personnel not the other way around.

depends on the situation. the knicks were a shambles when walsh took over. they were in the middle of re-building the team while d'antoni was there and were trying to get ssol players. that plan was aborted.

next up the melocentric knicks which did nothing and basically forced d'antoni to resighn. woodson is brought in and yes, he catered to the star, until all the leadership left and they won 37 games the following season.

now jackson is here, and, again, we are rebuilding. if the roster was a competitive one with playoff-level talent, THEN i can understand "tweaking" things to accommodate certain player's skills. meantime, the knicks will continue to institute the system they want to use while upgrading wherever and whenever possible.

i don't understand the objections.

dk you are a smart guy but it sounds like once you pick your side you are all in. You stop thinking objectively.

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

mreinman wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

mreinman wrote:

martin wrote:

mreinman wrote:

martin wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:so far it has been a disaster. Put a sh1tty team with a worse than sh1tty record out there without the intention to tank.

he has a lot to prove and fix.

Once again you don't get KP if you keep the inherited Roster! You can keep talking nonsense but at some point you have to explain how it wasn't a good thing that Phil let the team bottom out in the one year we had a 1st rd pick. In that same draft he adds Jerian and Willy. So in your opinion this wasn't a good thing??? Can you not see how that makes no sense?

The starting frontcourt is VERY good and will get better as RoLo continues to improve his offense and KP matures. That basically leaves the 2 guard spots as the only holes. You can't say Phil has a lot to fix when really it's the 2 starting guard spots. If he solves at least one of those spots this summer it's progress. One way or another the coaching situation will be resolved. So i'm not really seeing all this "disaster" you're trying to promote. Instead it looks like a team making incremental progress. 2014-15 roster blown up. 2015-16 roster revamped. 2016-17 look to improve again. Seems to make sense to me.

You can say that if you drive a car of a bridge, live, and land in a pool of gold that "see? its all good."

Rolo was a good signing even though it was what was left after Monroe and there were not many takers for Rolo. Either way, still good.

KP, great but lose another game or two and it could/would have been ok4.

I am still not sold that Jerian is better than THJ.

Hergo we know nothing about but Briggs said that we could have done much better so I am going by his word.

Our backcourt is a disaster and the biggest problem for me is that we don't run nearly enough PnR especially with the new dufus in charge.

Phil fukked up with Kerr by lowballing him and we can just ignore that. Maybe it is what caused him not to come here? Just maybe? Maybe not ... who knows ... it was stupid either way.

Now, we have a system that looks creaky with a coach who seems like a tool with a coaching search that is spread as wide as anyone who knows cobol. PERFECT!

Can phil turn this around? of course he can. Will he? I am quite skeptical being that he seems to care more about proving the triangle than he does about the knicks.

So things haven't been perfect. You have to be able to make adjustments to your plan when things happen. In the end Phil has drafted well. He's put together a very solid Frontcourt. He now has fewer holes to fill. See, if you stop going back and looking for negatives needlessly you can deal with the realities. They have opportunities to improve the roster going forward. They have talent to develop internally. This is not a disaster.

The System isn't creaky. We need to improve the talent on the team at the most important spots. The PG and SG spots are highly impactful on how a team plays. We need to upgrade the production at our guard spots overall. The Triangle has been proven to be able to allow a team to perform at a high level even by today's standards:

2015-16
Rk	Team	                ORtg ▾	Pace
1	Golden State Warriors	115.18	99.3
2	Oklahoma City Thunder	113.76	96.7
3	Cleveland Cavaliers	111.80	93.3
4	Toronto Raptors	        111.11	92.9
5	San Antonio Spurs	111.04	95.8
08-09   Los Angeles Lakers      112.80  94.3
07-08   Los Angeles Lakers      113.00  95.6

If the Triangle was so detrimental to offensive efficiency then those kinds of stats would not be possible. End of argument!!!

I think the fact that the only times the triangle offense was only successful was when it was headed up by Jordan/Pippen, Shaq/Kobe, then Kobe/Gasol, aka by all time greats says a lot more than comparing O ratings of teams playing in essentially different time periods.

Pippen led triangle team without Jordan did very well. Is Pau Gasol considered an all time great?

He was phenomenal in those years and did not miss a shot. As efficient as any big I have seen. Triangle credit? Maybe? Phil certainly gets credit as a great coach and deservedly so but the triangle has not been proven by itself and anyone is saying that it has been is being dishonest.

I would assume that if just one other coach was successful with it, that would be a start. And saying that a team (like SA) is using Triangle Principles is just bs as well.

I don't even know what that means.

Triangle has won with swingmen as the primaries. Won with bigmen. Won with different bigmen.

Triangle has been the MOST successful system since 1990, 2 decade span. Across multiple franchises.

I lot goes into winning. Triangle has been a part of that over the past decades. Spurs only other franchise that seems to continue that tradition of greatness for that amount of time.

you lost me. The triangle has won with MJ and Kobe as the primaries with some off the charts HOF supporting casts.

And golden States system has only won with elite players like Steph Curry and Green, and the Spurs system has only won with Tim Duncan & company- which team hasn't won with elite HOF supporting casts?

that is exactly the point and why JVG in his great Zach Lowe interview says that you need to run a system that fits your personnel not the other way around.

depends on the situation. the knicks were a shambles when walsh took over. they were in the middle of re-building the team while d'antoni was there and were trying to get ssol players. that plan was aborted.

next up the melocentric knicks which did nothing and basically forced d'antoni to resighn. woodson is brought in and yes, he catered to the star, until all the leadership left and they won 37 games the following season.

now jackson is here, and, again, we are rebuilding. if the roster was a competitive one with playoff-level talent, THEN i can understand "tweaking" things to accommodate certain player's skills. meantime, the knicks will continue to institute the system they want to use while upgrading wherever and whenever possible.

i don't understand the objections.

dk you are a smart guy but it sounds like once you pick your side you are all in. You stop thinking objectively.

you have to have a plan and stick with it. you don't overcome fifteen years of dolan in 2 seasons. you may need 5 seasons. i know--outrageous, right?

the cart is leading the horse with the majority of knick fans, as usual. impatience makes for irrationality. you are being unreasonable. jackson is a fully-formed adult with some real credibility. this is not thomas and not walsh. we HAVE TO give jackson time.

nixluva wrote:Some NYK Fans are so burnt and jaded that they can't even allow the greatest coach in modern NBA history to finish his job. Just 2 years in and Phil is suddenly an idiot. SMDH!

Can we let the man do his job this summer? We went thru this last year and Phil got some solid results. Now we have fewer holes to fill. For all we know Luke could still end up becoming the coach. It's still early. There will be other coaching interviews. We'll see what happens with the draft and free agency.

He's not doing the job of coach though

nixluva wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:I'm at the point where I just don't care about this joke of a franchise anymore. There are better ways to spend our time. These losers even took the joy out of watching KP, the one good thing we had. FUCK Them

This is a very silly post! Do you care to explain what would make you feel so dramatically upset about the Knicks? Cuz I just don't understand it. This is another big offseason and you don't know yet what is gonna happen so why get so ticked off before a coach is named, the draft and free agency???

Rambis has practically been named the coach with his 65-164 career record, we don't have a draft pick, and you already said you thought Phil was gonna try to preserve cap flexibility for 2017... I guess after the lockout?

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:Some NYK Fans are so burnt and jaded that they can't even allow the greatest coach in modern NBA history to finish his job. Just 2 years in and Phil is suddenly an idiot. SMDH!

Can we let the man do his job this summer? We went thru this last year and Phil got some solid results. Now we have fewer holes to fill. For all we know Luke could still end up becoming the coach. It's still early. There will be other coaching interviews. We'll see what happens with the draft and free agency.

He's not doing the job of coach though

Aside from in game decisions MOST of a coaches work is done in practices!!! So in essence Phil working with the players can have a huge impact. It's known that Phil did most of his coaching in practice and was often very hands off during games. He would often let the team figure it out rather than over coach. So the idea of Phil getting more hands on is about as good as it gets next to having him in games.

I guess the fact that Rambis was absolutely terrible (1-9) in games that the Knicks were within +/-5pts the last five minutes, especially compared to Fisher who was pretty decent at those games (13-17), doesn't matter, because his principles are so triangularly sound?

As long as Phil is ocassionally at practice, I guess we're set!

nixluva wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:I'm at the point where I just don't care about this joke of a franchise anymore. There are better ways to spend our time. These losers even took the joy out of watching KP, the one good thing we had. FUCK Them

This is a very silly post! Do you care to explain what would make you feel so dramatically upset about the Knicks? Cuz I just don't understand it. This is another big offseason and you don't know yet what is gonna happen so why get so ticked off before a coach is named, the draft and free agency???

Another season.
Another offseason.
Another preseason of false hope.
Another laughing stock season.
Another offseason.

Rinse.
Repeat.

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:Some NYK Fans are so burnt and jaded that they can't even allow the greatest coach in modern NBA history to finish his job. Just 2 years in and Phil is suddenly an idiot. SMDH!

Can we let the man do his job this summer? We went thru this last year and Phil got some solid results. Now we have fewer holes to fill. For all we know Luke could still end up becoming the coach. It's still early. There will be other coaching interviews. We'll see what happens with the draft and free agency.

He's not doing the job of coach though

Aside from in game decisions MOST of a coaches work is done in practices!!! So in essence Phil working with the players can have a huge impact. It's known that Phil did most of his coaching in practice and was often very hands off during games. He would often let the team figure it out rather than over coach. So the idea of Phil getting more hands on is about as good as it gets next to having him in games.

I guess the fact that Rambis was absolutely terrible (1-9) in games that the Knicks were within +/-5pts the last five minutes, especially compared to Fisher who was pretty decent at those games (13-17), doesn't matter, because his principles are so triangularly sound?

As long as Phil is ocassionally at practice, I guess we're set!

Why are you making this about Rambis in the regular season? This is about Phil himself working with the players! When the team was still playing well I'm sure you can pull a lot of good Fish stats but the team did hit a rough patch. In the end how can you really diss Phil working with the players and having his top assistant with him? There's literally nothing bad about Phil working with the players. Unless you think Phil has nothing to offer. Phil and Rambis is exactly what you would get if Phil was the head coach right? Until there are actual games this is literally the best we could get!!!