martin wrote:

wargames wrote:

Finestrg wrote:I like Crabbe. I think he's a fine player--a good young contributor on a playoff team. He'd be a good addition -- I just don't know if we should pay $10mm a pop for him on a long-term deal. Don't know if that's in our best interest--not when we have other positions to reinforce. Solomon Hill's out there and he's unrestricted. I think I like Hill's game better in the long run--I see a higher ceiling and he might cost half what Crabbe gets. Thing with Hill -- I read that he likes it in Indy. He knows they drafted him and gave him his chance in the NBA, he likes his teammates and he likes Vogel. After reading all that, I didn't think we could get him anymore but if we got Vogel, that could change. We need a head coach anyway and this guy's a good one--someone who would outlast Phil in NY imo--a guy I'd want here after Phil packs it in. I think getting Vogel improves out chances of getting Hill--that's potential a big plus I'd be looking to exploit right now. Kill two birds with one stone here I'm thinking.. And if they really want Crabbe, I would hope they're looking at other players who would cost less that have very similar games. PJ Hairston's one option. I think he might have even better 3&D potential than Crabbe and he'd cost less. Heck, I think Terrico White might be better than Crabbe and we can get that dude for the minimum.

Question for Wargames -- you mentioned Indy may not be able to match any offer for Hill over $2.5mm per. Is that true? I'd love to believe that. Tell me what your thinking is on that.

They can't. When I was reading up on Vogel I found out that apparently Bird didn't take Hill's 4th year option and they are currently capped out. All they can bid on him is 2.5 mil. Its a bit of a fiasco for Indy fans because he is a Draymond Green'esque player they need to have a small ball system and they know they are going to lose him.

Also I like the idea of taking a flyer on Hairston as well, though I am pretty sure Phil can get him too for dirt cheap. He is the definition of a flyer contract that can either accept the minimum from a team or just as easily end up out of the league.

Indiana is not capped out next year. Maybe they can't go OVER the cap with him, but they got cap room to sign him to a big deal if they want.

You are correct my mistake. The Indiana forums have been acting like he was gone for sure. I guess they assume he'll leave leave.

crzymdups wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:I'm still confused at the low number. Did people not see what players got last summer in a lower cap or what Orlando did with Tobias Harris? If the offer is low they will sign him and keep him to trade him.

I agree with this. I don't see a single team letting an RFA walk. If Allen Crabbe signed an $8M a year offer sheet with the Knicks, I think Portland would do a little dance of celebration... then wait the full three days to match, tying up our cap space.

I know right. It would never get that far because Crabbe's agent would laugh at Mills and crew. Now is that probably what he should get the answer is yes and maybe less but that NBA world is over.

crzymdups wrote:Portland has $56M in committed salary next season. They could sign Al Horford to a $23M max and still give Crabbe $12M and still have room for more.

Harkless, Meyers Lenard, Crabbe, Henderson. All RFA? Gotta pick and choose.

martin wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Portland has $56M in committed salary next season. They could sign Al Horford to a $23M max and still give Crabbe $12M and still have room for more.

Harkless, Meyers Lenard, Crabbe, Henderson. All RFA? Gotta pick and choose.

They definitely don't want Henderson. Crabbe and Harkless, yes for sure. Not sure about Meyers Lenard...

martin wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Portland has $56M in committed salary next season. They could sign Al Horford to a $23M max and still give Crabbe $12M and still have room for more.

Harkless($7.2m), Meyers Lenard($7.7m), Crabbe($2.7m), Henderson($9m). All RFA? Gotta pick and choose.

Very true they have another $26m committed to those players in Cap holds and another $10m to Kaman and Roberts, both likely rescinded.

Also, I believe the $56m is wrong, according to Spotrac they have $48m in active contracts and dead money. So really they have $48m + $26m = $74m tied uo to their team and their top r/FAs. That still leaves them with around $18m in FA money to use. They could spread that money on their FAs to give them raises and still have money left over.

Also, everyone except Henderson is restricted which gives them the ability to go over the cap to sign them. The only saving grace is the following year that they have to pay McCollom and Plumlee. They could enter extension talks this summer with those players so that may help.

yellowboy90 wrote:

martin wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Portland has $56M in committed salary next season. They could sign Al Horford to a $23M max and still give Crabbe $12M and still have room for more.

Harkless($7.2m), Meyers Lenard($7.7m), Crabbe($2.7m), Henderson($9m). All RFA? Gotta pick and choose.

Very true they have another $26m committed to those players in Cap holds and another $10m to Kaman and Roberts, both likely rescinded.

Also, I believe the $56m is wrong, according to Spotrac they have $48m in active contracts and dead money. So really they have $48m + $26m = $74m tied uo to their team and their top r/FAs. That still leaves them with around $18m in FA money to use. They could spread that money on their FAs to give them raises and still have money left over.

Also, everyone except Henderson is restricted which gives them the ability to go over the cap to sign them. The only saving grace is the following year that they have to pay McCollom and Plumlee. They could enter extension talks this summer with those players so that may help.

The issue is they need a rim protector Big who can also score a little. Someone like Dwight, Whiteside, Horford. They might get something like that for 18 but then they got to have that 18 in space free of cap holds to sign them. Also they would probably want to go into extension talks with Plumlee and McCollum sooner than Later.

A offer of 10-14 for their backup SG would be a tough pill to swallow especially if it makes it hard for them to make other moves. On the flip 10-14 for a starting SG while a lot is offset by the fact all the PG's are on basically rookie deals for 2 years.

BRIGGS wrote:

wargames wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

martin wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Portland has $56M in committed salary next season. They could sign Al Horford to a $23M max and still give Crabbe $12M and still have room for more.

Harkless($7.2m), Meyers Lenard($7.7m), Crabbe($2.7m), Henderson($9m). All RFA? Gotta pick and choose.

Very true they have another $26m committed to those players in Cap holds and another $10m to Kaman and Roberts, both likely rescinded.

Also, I believe the $56m is wrong, according to Spotrac they have $48m in active contracts and dead money. So really they have $48m + $26m = $74m tied uo to their team and their top r/FAs. That still leaves them with around $18m in FA money to use. They could spread that money on their FAs to give them raises and still have money left over.

Also, everyone except Henderson is restricted which gives them the ability to go over the cap to sign them. The only saving grace is the following year that they have to pay McCollom and Plumlee. They could enter extension talks this summer with those players so that may help.

The issue is they need a rim protector Big who can also score a little. Someone like Dwight, Whiteside, Horford. They might get something like that for 18 but then they got to have that 18 in space free of cap holds to sign them. Also they would probably want to go into extension talks with Plumlee and McCollum sooner than Later.

A offer of 10-14 for their backup SG would be a tough pill to swallow especially if it makes it hard for them to make other moves. On the flip 10-14 for a starting SG while a lot is offset by the fact all the PG's are on basically rookie deals for 2 years.

wargames--I think if I have to go well beyond whats necessary Ill lay off the first rd of free agency and sign a one year deal with a player whos left over.

I mean honestly I think Crabbe is way down the pole of priorities for the Blazers. He could be a starter in NY, but he's probably only ever a a bench reserve for them, he's not even a key reserve. I think he'll be 10-14, but likely closer to 10.

wargames wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

wargames wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

martin wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Portland has $56M in committed salary next season. They could sign Al Horford to a $23M max and still give Crabbe $12M and still have room for more.

Harkless($7.2m), Meyers Lenard($7.7m), Crabbe($2.7m), Henderson($9m). All RFA? Gotta pick and choose.

Very true they have another $26m committed to those players in Cap holds and another $10m to Kaman and Roberts, both likely rescinded.

Also, I believe the $56m is wrong, according to Spotrac they have $48m in active contracts and dead money. So really they have $48m + $26m = $74m tied uo to their team and their top r/FAs. That still leaves them with around $18m in FA money to use. They could spread that money on their FAs to give them raises and still have money left over.

Also, everyone except Henderson is restricted which gives them the ability to go over the cap to sign them. The only saving grace is the following year that they have to pay McCollom and Plumlee. They could enter extension talks this summer with those players so that may help.

The issue is they need a rim protector Big who can also score a little. Someone like Dwight, Whiteside, Horford. They might get something like that for 18 but then they got to have that 18 in space free of cap holds to sign them. Also they would probably want to go into extension talks with Plumlee and McCollum sooner than Later.

A offer of 10-14 for their backup SG would be a tough pill to swallow especially if it makes it hard for them to make other moves. On the flip 10-14 for a starting SG while a lot is offset by the fact all the PG's are on basically rookie deals for 2 years.

wargames--I think if I have to go well beyond whats necessary Ill lay off the first rd of free agency and sign a one year deal with a player whos left over.

I mean honestly I think Crabbe is way down the pole of priorities for the Blazers. He could be a starter in NY, but he's probably only ever a a bench reserve for them, he's not even a key reserve. I think he'll be 10-14, but likely closer to 10.

Dude played almost 2000 minutes he is a key reserve. Now look at a player like Solomon Hill who others have mentioned. He played less than 700 minutes. That's such a small sample size that it is hard to judge what kind of player he is. The last time Hill was given major minutes he played awful. I personally see Crabbe like Middleton two years ago when I wanted the Knicks to make a pkg around Shump for Ilyasova and Middleton.

yellowboy90 wrote:

wargames wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

martin wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Portland has $56M in committed salary next season. They could sign Al Horford to a $23M max and still give Crabbe $12M and still have room for more.

Harkless($7.2m), Meyers Lenard($7.7m), Crabbe($2.7m), Henderson($9m). All RFA? Gotta pick and choose.

Very true they have another $26m committed to those players in Cap holds and another $10m to Kaman and Roberts, both likely rescinded.

Also, I believe the $56m is wrong, according to Spotrac they have $48m in active contracts and dead money. So really they have $48m + $26m = $74m tied uo to their team and their top r/FAs. That still leaves them with around $18m in FA money to use. They could spread that money on their FAs to give them raises and still have money left over.

Also, everyone except Henderson is restricted which gives them the ability to go over the cap to sign them. The only saving grace is the following year that they have to pay McCollom and Plumlee. They could enter extension talks this summer with those players so that may help.

The issue is they need a rim protector Big who can also score a little. Someone like Dwight, Whiteside, Horford. They might get something like that for 18 but then they got to have that 18 in space free of cap holds to sign them. Also they would probably want to go into extension talks with Plumlee and McCollum sooner than Later.

A offer of 10-14 for their backup SG would be a tough pill to swallow especially if it makes it hard for them to make other moves. On the flip 10-14 for a starting SG while a lot is offset by the fact all the PG's are on basically rookie deals for 2 years.

They might need a rim protector but going after a center would mean moving Plumlee to a back up position and his passing is needed. Whiteside is would still be an intriguing get and the only big man I could see them going after because Plumlee is about as good at defending the rim as Horford and (decline)Howard.

How many teams are looking for a shooter like Crabbe? He is young, has size to play 2/3, improving defender and is still developing. Henderson was paid $9m in the old market. The max he can get is a salary starting near $21m so I would not be surprise if he gets $15-18m. The best way to get him for less is to add in dirty language like the Parsons' offer sheet but you may end up paying him another huge deal after 2 years.

I like Crabbe but he is far from a 15-18 guy. I expect Bazemore who has shown a lot range this season to get around that amount. Its the one reason why I am hoping they go a little cheaper and get Crabbe. There is no reason to spend that amount on Crabbe, he hasn't shown that much potential. He's a system SG that fits the knicks system. On the flip there is no reason to spend that much overall on the knicks. The knicks need a SG and superior bench depth. Sinking all the guaranteed cap space into a SG while hoping D-Will and AA opt out is not a wise move in my opinion.

wargames wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

wargames wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

martin wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Portland has $56M in committed salary next season. They could sign Al Horford to a $23M max and still give Crabbe $12M and still have room for more.

Harkless($7.2m), Meyers Lenard($7.7m), Crabbe($2.7m), Henderson($9m). All RFA? Gotta pick and choose.

Very true they have another $26m committed to those players in Cap holds and another $10m to Kaman and Roberts, both likely rescinded.

Also, I believe the $56m is wrong, according to Spotrac they have $48m in active contracts and dead money. So really they have $48m + $26m = $74m tied uo to their team and their top r/FAs. That still leaves them with around $18m in FA money to use. They could spread that money on their FAs to give them raises and still have money left over.

Also, everyone except Henderson is restricted which gives them the ability to go over the cap to sign them. The only saving grace is the following year that they have to pay McCollom and Plumlee. They could enter extension talks this summer with those players so that may help.

The issue is they need a rim protector Big who can also score a little. Someone like Dwight, Whiteside, Horford. They might get something like that for 18 but then they got to have that 18 in space free of cap holds to sign them. Also they would probably want to go into extension talks with Plumlee and McCollum sooner than Later.

A offer of 10-14 for their backup SG would be a tough pill to swallow especially if it makes it hard for them to make other moves. On the flip 10-14 for a starting SG while a lot is offset by the fact all the PG's are on basically rookie deals for 2 years.

They might need a rim protector but going after a center would mean moving Plumlee to a back up position and his passing is needed. Whiteside is would still be an intriguing get and the only big man I could see them going after because Plumlee is about as good at defending the rim as Horford and (decline)Howard.

How many teams are looking for a shooter like Crabbe? He is young, has size to play 2/3, improving defender and is still developing. Henderson was paid $9m in the old market. The max he can get is a salary starting near $21m so I would not be surprise if he gets $15-18m. The best way to get him for less is to add in dirty language like the Parsons' offer sheet but you may end up paying him another huge deal after 2 years.

I like Crabbe but he is far from a 15-18 guy. I expect Bazemore who has shown a lot range this season to get around that amount. Its the one reason why I am hoping they go a little cheaper and get Crabbe. There is no reason to spend that amount on Crabbe, he hasn't shown that much potential. He's a system SG that fits the knicks system. On the flip there is no reason to spend that much overall on the knicks. The knicks need a SG and superior bench depth. Sinking all the guaranteed cap space into a SG while hoping D-Will and AA opt out is not a wise move in my opinion.

I agree that his actual play this far is far from a $15-$18m but it is about market value and him being a restricted FA on a team with major cap room. Also, to say someone is a system guy that can work in different systems, contradicts yourself.

Also, bazemore and Crabbe are really similar players except this is Crabbe's first year getting major minutes. Bazemore is the better rebounder but Crabbe is the better shooter. Plus he is taller, bigger, longer, and younger. If you are going to pay the 27 UFA that much you might as well get ready to pay the 24 year old RFA.

They will learn about AA/DW opting in or out before free agency so that won't be an issue by then. The real issue is if they want to spend next or do they want to really do a slow rebuild. If they want to go big game fishing in 2017 they will have to bait the hook in 2016. A big time FA will not want to come to a non playoff team so they have to decide what direction they want to take this summer.