knicks1248 wrote:

VCoug wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Hornets needed 12 lotto picks to be a 1st-2nd rd team.
GSW needed 3 lotto picks and 1 2nd round pick to be arguably the best team in the NBA or history depending on who you ask.
Spurs needed 1 lotto pick, 1 late first, 1 2nd round pick
Dallas needed 1 lotto pick, multiple smart trades, cap flexibility to be in the hunt year after year.

Focus needs to be on being a sound organization. Odds of our draft picks being as good or better then Melo (22-8-4 with solid D this season) even at his age isn't high. So if we can't build a winning team with a guy like Melo odds are we aren't going to build a winning team with most players. We would strictly have to have the best players in the NBA then.

It isn't about this season! It's about next season, and the seasons 5 and 10 years from now. We're not going to be competing next year or the year after unless we get stupidly, ridiculously lucky. And if we're trying to compete the next 2-3 years and fail like we're probably going to, we're going to **** up Porzingis' prime when he hits 25/26 by not having other good to great players around the same age. We'll waste his prime the same way Cleveland did Lebron, New Orleans did Chris Pual and is doing to Anthony Davis.

you surround young players with other young players, who are they learning from...you send your kids to school to be taught by other kids his age..cmon dude lets get real..

Duncan had a full veteran squad around him for his first 3 seasons

when shaq was with Orlando with a young penny and nick Anderson and D scott, they got swept in the finals, and the ship was sinking there after, that's why he jumped ship.

labron could have stayed in Cleveland and added talent, but the idea of playing in Miami with his closes friends, who happen to be just as good, was more enticing.

Curry and klay were just going through it, until they added some very good vets..

Melo miss 8 games this season, and never took a SO CALLED REST DAY off, and changed his game for the better..smh

now lets get rid of him..so dumb

I didn't realize that trading Melo meant we couldn't have any other veteran players at all. As for your other points:

1. Yes, Duncan did have a veteran squad. So?

2. Shaq played one more season in Orlando after losing the Finals and he won more games his last season there.

3. What talent could Cleveland add? They had signed a bunch of veteran players to big deals while Lebron was massively underpaid on his rookie deal. After that they were capped out and couldn't sign any significant player to the team. Perhaps they should have traded the aging but still good Ilguaskas to try and build around Lebron?

4. Who are you talking about, Barbosa? Most of the main players had been on the several team several years before winning the championship last year. I think switching from a ****ty coach, Mark Jackson, to a good coach, Steve Kerr, was the reason they blew up last year.

5. So? My point isn't that I hate Melo as a person or player or anything like that. We're not competing for a title in the next few years. At best, we're looking at 2019 when Melo will be 35 years old and that's only if we don't **** up our future by trying to compete and failing miserably the next couple of years.

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

arkrud wrote:Knicks cannot trade Melo.
Melo can trade himself or stay in NY.
He is the master of his own destiny.
The main good thing from him leaving is liberation from false perception that this team is some player or coach away from the showtime.
It is light years away as you rightly mentioned.
It takes time to build around stars and team should start to build when their star is entering his prime not exiting it.
There is nothing wrong with Melo but it is everything wrong with timing between him and state of the Knicks.

The perception is the propaganda. The reality is a future that we can't see, thus we are mad.
Melo is here to sell tickets cuz NBA is an entertainment company. Winning nice, but selling tix is the game.

Only one team of 30 wins. This is gonna take a few years. Then why keep melo? "thats entertainment!!!"

Why is melo a star attraction , why does he sell tickets, is it because he's really good, or 98% of the basketball world doesn't see what a handful of knick fans see like chuckbuck and DK.

The people that want him traded have a personal agenda. I know this because they know that the propose trades won't make us better and sets us back 5 yrs.

Any GM trades a confirm good play for a player that they pray and hope "HE may be good", should be fired,

OUR concerns should always be towards management for the most part, they put this sht toghether..One good move 2 bad moves, thats the pattern of every GM we get.

I'll be very honest, I hated melo's game and personality before he got here, was totally against the trade. But when he became a FA, the thought of having to deal with another 10 yrs looking for a star player, or leader was very scary.

All those yrs with draft picks like frank williams, sweetney, frye, toney douglas, boneheaded trades like KVH for Tim thomas, or Francis for Ariza, or watching no big name FA even giving us a second thought.

Kp is good, but we haven't had one single draft pick in 15 yrs, that has came back better(except Lee & Nate) in his 2nd season ready to take over. He hasN'T been able to do nothing when melo's out, and if he himself gets hurt, who will we rely on if melo's not here, A BUNCH OF LOW DRAFT PICKS, AND MORE AFFALO TYPE PLAYERS, avg 82 ppg as a team

Like you folks seen this horror movie before, why would want to go the same rout..like wtf maaan

------->The people that want him traded have a personal agenda. I know this because they know that the propose trades won't make us better and sets us back 5

In the last 3 years we are
37-45
17-65
28-43

We sck--the personal agenda is to NOT sck. We need to use Melo to get younger--to build out and raise the talent level of the guard positions.

and that win total is because of Melo? If you goal is not suck you keep Melo and upgrade the roster. Unless you don't think Melo is a good BB player. Maybe start a new thread?

Hes the main guy and this is our record. You are what you are--we sck with melo.

This is BULL ISH!!! The problem is the guard spots and not Melo himself. For me there is no real correlation between the losing and Melo himself. The REST of the roster has to be up to par in order to win. The team is 0-8 without him. When his teammates were playing well this team was actually looking like it would get over .500. With quality guard play this team should be able to win just like any other team and it has nothing to do with Melo being somehow responsible for the team not playing well.

This is BS? Weve lost 153 games and counting the last 3 years. It counts if a guy cant play either--if a guy cant play a number of games--its just as detrimental. Also it speaks to where we are as a team. There is no quick fix here--so the smart move is to cash in on Melo for younger assets to go along with KP.

Despite the disappointing season, the future is still BRIGHT!!! Don't let this current W/L record blind you from the progress and possibilities for even more progress. We've got some young talent in development. We have a core of solid NBA bigs and now just need to upgrade the guards and wings.

RK	PLAYER	                GP	MPG	TS%	AST	TO	USG	ORR	DRR	REBR	PER	VA	EWA
31	DeAndre Jordan, LAC	67	34.2	.635	9.0	10.7	13.7	11.3	33.0	22.2	20.61	342.1	11.4
32	Paul George, IND	70	35.5	.552	14.5	11.7	29.1	3.0	18.5	10.8	20.59	374.2	12.5
33	John Wall, WSH	        70	36.0	.515	29.8	12.0	29.4	1.7	14.0	7.7	20.55	359.0	12.0
34	Carmelo Anthony, NY	63	35.4	.529	15.5	9.0	28.3	4.4	20.1	12.3	20.45	331.8	11.1
35	Nikola Vucevic, ORL	58	31.8	.520	13.0	8.9	25.2	9.5	21.9	15.6	20.36	268.8	9.0
36	Eric Bledsoe, PHX	31	34.2	.557	21.9	12.7	27.4	1.8	11.3	6.4	20.34	147.6	4.9
37	Chris Bosh, MIA	        53	33.5	.571	11.7	7.2	23.2	3.2	21.1	12.4	20.33	234.4	7.8
38	Dirk Nowitzki, DAL	64	31.3	.570	9.2	5.8	23.5	2.4	20.7	11.6	20.26	262.1	8.7
39	Reggie Jackson, DET	70	30.6	.539	23.6	10.2	29.2	2.4	9.3	5.7	20.19	293.9	9.8
40	Dwyane Wade, MIA	63	30.6	.511	18.1	10.7	30.8	4.5	10.5	7.6	20.13	277.3	9.2
RK	PLAYER	GP	MPG	TS%	AST	TO	USG	ORR	DRR	REBR	PER	VA	EWA
61	Thaddeus Young, BKN	68	33.1	.532	10.4	10.0	20.5	8.2	23.2	15.7	18.04	219.7	7.3
62	Robin Lopez, NY	        71	26.6	.586	11.2	13.7	16.6	13.2	16.4	14.8	17.89	205.2	6.8
63	J.J. Redick, LAC	65	28.6	.638	9.4	6.9	20.7	0.5	6.1	3.3	17.86	203.9	6.8
64	Rudy Gobert, UTAH	50	32.6	.591	13.5	16.5	13.5	12.3	27.3	19.8	17.78	174.4	5.8
65	Louis Williams, LAL	61	29.1	.582	14.6	9.1	21.8	1.6	8.4	4.9	17.76	192.5	6.4
66	Marc Gasol, MEM	        52	34.4	.528	17.4	10.5	22.8	3.6	20.0	11.5	17.75	191.2	6.4
67	C.J. McCollum, POR	69	34.9	.540	16.1	9.3	26.6	1.9	8.7	5.3	17.67	257.7	8.6
68	Jeff Withey, UTAH	44	13.3	.573	8.9	12.7	14.4	9.8	20.6	15.2	17.60	61.0	2.0
69	Jeff Teague, ATL	68	28.3	.545	26.2	12.2	25.9	1.7	8.5	5.2	17.56	188.6	6.3
70	Kristaps Porzingis, NY	68	28.0	.511	7.8	10.1	22.9	7.2	20.8	14.1	17.54	171.8	5.7
RK	PLAYER	GP	MPG	TS%	AST	TO	USG	ORR	DRR	REBR	PER	VA	EWA
        Manu Ginobili, SA	51	19.5	.563	22.8	13.1	23.5	2.9	12.5	7.9	17.54	104.2	3.5
72	Brandon Bass, LAL	60	20.1	.615	14.7	8.0	13.4	8.0	15.4	11.6	17.50	108.1	3.6
73	Kyle O'Quinn, NY	57	11.3	.527	17.2	15.0	20.7	10.5	23.9	17.3	17.45	57.1	1.9
74	Derrick Williams, NY	69	16.9	.536	9.4	6.5	22.2	3.6	19.1	11.4	17.44	103.2	3.4

So Melo's has the 2nd biggest contract in the league and ranks 34th on your list? What a great deal.

I don't like your characterization of what I presented above. You do have to have a sense of perspective on Salaries. Melo's being paid the way the Vet scale works out. It's not so much about his current ranking, but rather his status as a top FA and time in the league. Older stars can get paid more.

2015 Cap Hit Rankings    
PLAYER	                                2015 CAP-HIT
1  Kobe Bryant	     SMALL FORWARD	$25,000,000
2  LeBron James	     SMALL FORWARD	$22,970,500
3  Carmelo Anthony   SMALL FORWARD	$22,875,000
4  Dwight Howard     CENTER	        $22,359,364
5  Chris Bosh	     POWER FORWARD	$22,192,730
6  Chris Paul	     POINT GUARD	$21,468,696
7  Kevin Durant	     SMALL FORWARD	$20,158,622
8  Derrick Rose	     POINT GUARD	$20,093,064
9  Dwyane Wade	     SHOOTING GUARD	$20,000,000
10 LaMarcus Aldridge POWER FORWARD	$19,689,000

Melo will be eclipsed by guys signing new contracts. It's really IMO a very petty issue to bring up in reference to the overall point, which is that we have some solid Bigs on the team. That is progress since LAST YEAR we did not have this quality of bigs as we do now and they are going to get better as KP and others continue to develop. Now we have fewer holes in the roster to fill but we have the means to fill those holes with better players. That's the overarching point I was making.

Lets say money is not an object. Would you trade Carmelo Anthony for Devin Booker straight up--no other picks --just even.

yellowboy90 wrote:How did NO waste Paul's prime by trading them journeyman semi-healthy Tyson Chandler? Anyway this is the wrong summer to trade Melo. It's not just about draft picks its also about having picks in the right draft.

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:How did NO waste Paul's prime by trading them journeyman semi-healthy Tyson Chandler? Anyway this is the wrong summer to trade Melo. It's not just about draft picks its also about having picks in the right draft.

What do picks have to do with this?

Most people want draft picks back some want 4-15 guards.

VCoug wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

VCoug wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Hornets needed 12 lotto picks to be a 1st-2nd rd team.
GSW needed 3 lotto picks and 1 2nd round pick to be arguably the best team in the NBA or history depending on who you ask.
Spurs needed 1 lotto pick, 1 late first, 1 2nd round pick
Dallas needed 1 lotto pick, multiple smart trades, cap flexibility to be in the hunt year after year.

Focus needs to be on being a sound organization. Odds of our draft picks being as good or better then Melo (22-8-4 with solid D this season) even at his age isn't high. So if we can't build a winning team with a guy like Melo odds are we aren't going to build a winning team with most players. We would strictly have to have the best players in the NBA then.

It isn't about this season! It's about next season, and the seasons 5 and 10 years from now. We're not going to be competing next year or the year after unless we get stupidly, ridiculously lucky. And if we're trying to compete the next 2-3 years and fail like we're probably going to, we're going to **** up Porzingis' prime when he hits 25/26 by not having other good to great players around the same age. We'll waste his prime the same way Cleveland did Lebron, New Orleans did Chris Pual and is doing to Anthony Davis.

you surround young players with other young players, who are they learning from...you send your kids to school to be taught by other kids his age..cmon dude lets get real..

Duncan had a full veteran squad around him for his first 3 seasons

when shaq was with Orlando with a young penny and nick Anderson and D scott, they got swept in the finals, and the ship was sinking there after, that's why he jumped ship.

labron could have stayed in Cleveland and added talent, but the idea of playing in Miami with his closes friends, who happen to be just as good, was more enticing.

Curry and klay were just going through it, until they added some very good vets..

Melo miss 8 games this season, and never took a SO CALLED REST DAY off, and changed his game for the better..smh

now lets get rid of him..so dumb

I didn't realize that trading Melo meant we couldn't have any other veteran players at all. As for your other points:

1. Yes, Duncan did have a veteran squad. So?

2. Shaq played one more season in Orlando after losing the Finals and he won more games his last season there.

3. What talent could Cleveland add? They had signed a bunch of veteran players to big deals while Lebron was massively underpaid on his rookie deal. After that they were capped out and couldn't sign any significant player to the team. Perhaps they should have traded the aging but still good Ilguaskas to try and build around Lebron?

4. Who are you talking about, Barbosa? Most of the main players had been on the several team several years before winning the championship last year. I think switching from a ****ty coach, Mark Jackson, to a good coach, Steve Kerr, was the reason they blew up last year.

5. So? My point isn't that I hate Melo as a person or player or anything like that. We're not competing for a title in the next few years. At best, we're looking at 2019 when Melo will be 35 years old and that's only if we don't **** up our future by trying to compete and failing miserably the next couple of years.

Having a retarded coach is 80% of our problem

Melo owns the knicks until he's 35, he controls his destiny with his NTC, "HE'S A BUSINESS MAN IN A SPORT THAT'S MORE BUSINESS THAN SPORT"

You know you need vets to win, and you're not developing no role player for 3-4 yrs

knicks1248 wrote:

VCoug wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

VCoug wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Hornets needed 12 lotto picks to be a 1st-2nd rd team.
GSW needed 3 lotto picks and 1 2nd round pick to be arguably the best team in the NBA or history depending on who you ask.
Spurs needed 1 lotto pick, 1 late first, 1 2nd round pick
Dallas needed 1 lotto pick, multiple smart trades, cap flexibility to be in the hunt year after year.

Focus needs to be on being a sound organization. Odds of our draft picks being as good or better then Melo (22-8-4 with solid D this season) even at his age isn't high. So if we can't build a winning team with a guy like Melo odds are we aren't going to build a winning team with most players. We would strictly have to have the best players in the NBA then.

It isn't about this season! It's about next season, and the seasons 5 and 10 years from now. We're not going to be competing next year or the year after unless we get stupidly, ridiculously lucky. And if we're trying to compete the next 2-3 years and fail like we're probably going to, we're going to **** up Porzingis' prime when he hits 25/26 by not having other good to great players around the same age. We'll waste his prime the same way Cleveland did Lebron, New Orleans did Chris Pual and is doing to Anthony Davis.

you surround young players with other young players, who are they learning from...you send your kids to school to be taught by other kids his age..cmon dude lets get real..

Duncan had a full veteran squad around him for his first 3 seasons

when shaq was with Orlando with a young penny and nick Anderson and D scott, they got swept in the finals, and the ship was sinking there after, that's why he jumped ship.

labron could have stayed in Cleveland and added talent, but the idea of playing in Miami with his closes friends, who happen to be just as good, was more enticing.

Curry and klay were just going through it, until they added some very good vets..

Melo miss 8 games this season, and never took a SO CALLED REST DAY off, and changed his game for the better..smh

now lets get rid of him..so dumb

I didn't realize that trading Melo meant we couldn't have any other veteran players at all. As for your other points:

1. Yes, Duncan did have a veteran squad. So?

2. Shaq played one more season in Orlando after losing the Finals and he won more games his last season there.

3. What talent could Cleveland add? They had signed a bunch of veteran players to big deals while Lebron was massively underpaid on his rookie deal. After that they were capped out and couldn't sign any significant player to the team. Perhaps they should have traded the aging but still good Ilguaskas to try and build around Lebron?

4. Who are you talking about, Barbosa? Most of the main players had been on the several team several years before winning the championship last year. I think switching from a ****ty coach, Mark Jackson, to a good coach, Steve Kerr, was the reason they blew up last year.

5. So? My point isn't that I hate Melo as a person or player or anything like that. We're not competing for a title in the next few years. At best, we're looking at 2019 when Melo will be 35 years old and that's only if we don't **** up our future by trying to compete and failing miserably the next couple of years.

Having a retarded coach is 80% of our problem

Melo owns the knicks until he's 35, he controls his destiny with his NTC, "HE'S A BUSINESS MAN IN A SPORT THAT'S MORE BUSINESS THAN SPORT"

You know you need vets to win, and you're not developing no role player for 3-4 yrs

I actually think he is gone this summer..... I hope

VCoug wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Hornets needed 12 lotto picks to be a 1st-2nd rd team.
GSW needed 3 lotto picks and 1 2nd round pick to be arguably the best team in the NBA or history depending on who you ask.
Spurs needed 1 lotto pick, 1 late first, 1 2nd round pick
Dallas needed 1 lotto pick, multiple smart trades, cap flexibility to be in the hunt year after year.

Focus needs to be on being a sound organization. Odds of our draft picks being as good or better then Melo (22-8-4 with solid D this season) even at his age isn't high. So if we can't build a winning team with a guy like Melo odds are we aren't going to build a winning team with most players. We would strictly have to have the best players in the NBA then.

It isn't about this season! It's about next season, and the seasons 5 and 10 years from now. We're not going to be competing next year or the year after unless we get stupidly, ridiculously lucky. And if we're trying to compete the next 2-3 years and fail like we're probably going to, we're going to **** up Porzingis' prime when he hits 25/26 by not having other good to great players around the same age. We'll waste his prime the same way Cleveland did Lebron, New Orleans did Chris Pual and is doing to Anthony Davis.

There would still be the risk of not giving KP the nessesary amount of help by going full rebuild as well. We would need to be very lucky regardless of what route we take. As mentioned before Hornets when they drafted Okafor, Felton, Morrison. Built for 5-10yrs down the road. None of those players were on the team after 5yrs.

knicks1248 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:knicks 1248

Lets say money is not an object. Would you trade Carmelo Anthony for Devin Booker straight up--no other picks --just even.

no, that would be career suicide for any GM/prez. You dont win with young talent, I don't care how good they are, you will not win with them,.

Young super stars don't win without old stars, it's the Nature of the game. From Kg, to bron, to wade, to shaq, to kobe, to MJ.

You need a good coach, veteran stars, and a young special talent (like a KP/curry) with a high IQ, that's the formula no matter how mix it, shake it, stir it. Anything else, you're spinning your wheels or playing darts blindfolded.

Hiring Fisher was playing darts blindfolded, hoping you hit the target. Not keeping this core intact for more than 3 seasons, that's spinning your wheels.

Booker is a solid player i would want playing with Melo and KP, not trading them for him