mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

dk7th wrote:i don't see a conundrum at all. melo got his money, the clock wound down to zero. then phil jackson hoped he could get melo to stay at a significant discount, which melo refused to do. then, in a move that has james dolan's paw prints and stench all over it, a no-trade clause was thrown in. this is a sign of a malignant narcissist, someone who can't help but foul his own nest. meanwhile a high percentage of the fanbase goes along in some sort of hypnotic surrender, agreeing with a melo-centric narrative.

that's just wrong... and perverse.

jackson ought to be allowed to do the work he wanted to do and in fact was hired to do, which is build a culture with lasting power, and that culture would outlast melo's career as a knick. there is no sense in rushing. there is a huge amount of inertia that this ship is under and it takes much longer than just two seasons to undergo a genuine course correction. if melo doesn't like the rate of the course correction then he can waive the no-trade and chase championships like so many also-rans have in the past. no shame in that but of course his legacy as a knick will be of the bronze sort, maybe not even that. if he stays he should be prepared to let the knicks build a future with him as an older vet in a reduced role. my opinion is that the phil jackson and the franchise owe melo nothing. on the contrary, melo owes the knicks, and he can repay them by leaving or accepting that the knicks future is not centered on his late prime and twilight years.

just because the knicks grossly overpaid not once but twice for melo does not mean the knicks should do more of the same by signing older, injury-prone vets and vastly overrated players that keep getting traded.

Dolan being involved is pure speculation on your part. Phil Jackson told everyone he was hired with the promise to have total freedom and there is zero indication that he has had anything but total freedom. In no way have we caught any whiff of Dolan meddling since Phil took over.

The no trade clause was gratuitous in the extreme. Only a malignant narcissist, a notorious, alcholic star-phucker would reward a player that kind of control. I am sorry but you sound naive here.

No he doesn't sound naive. If Dolan negotiates that deal Melo doesn't take a little less in his second year and he still gets a ntc. Also, Phil would say if Dolan was involved. Phil did the deal. He wanted wiggle room in year two and gave up the ntc.

and how do you know this inside info? Reading da future? Dolans mind? Melo's?

I thought almost everyone on this board could read Melo's mind? It's seems like a pretty simple process.

"We grossly overpaid twice for Melo." We're going to keep seeing this broken line of reasoning forever, while reading about how the unwashed, illiterate fanbase "goes along with a melo-centric narrative." As if in the past 5 years there's been any other narrative to pay attention to. Or any other legitimate star who had the cojones to actually WANT to come here and play. Malignant, narcissistic, alcoholic, self-fouling, notorious starphuquer or no.

This is so brilliant on so many levels; the background narrative that drones on about how the franchise was entering the sunshine of the Gallonari/Stat era, a narrative that espouses about how great things were before a certain money grubbing overpaid professional athlete came here and made millions of dollars at this poor franchise's expense, and that any number of HOF coaches or shining stars have been quashed and dimmed by said greedy professional athlete. None of which has any basis in fact or subsequent performance, other than this particular professional athlete actually had the gall and insidiousness to want to get paid alot of money. While just happening to be darkening this arena while said franchise got further than it has in over a decade. The putrid, fastidious, self-absorbed bastid!

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

dk7th wrote:i don't see a conundrum at all. melo got his money, the clock wound down to zero. then phil jackson hoped he could get melo to stay at a significant discount, which melo refused to do. then, in a move that has james dolan's paw prints and stench all over it, a no-trade clause was thrown in. this is a sign of a malignant narcissist, someone who can't help but foul his own nest. meanwhile a high percentage of the fanbase goes along in some sort of hypnotic surrender, agreeing with a melo-centric narrative.

that's just wrong... and perverse.

jackson ought to be allowed to do the work he wanted to do and in fact was hired to do, which is build a culture with lasting power, and that culture would outlast melo's career as a knick. there is no sense in rushing. there is a huge amount of inertia that this ship is under and it takes much longer than just two seasons to undergo a genuine course correction. if melo doesn't like the rate of the course correction then he can waive the no-trade and chase championships like so many also-rans have in the past. no shame in that but of course his legacy as a knick will be of the bronze sort, maybe not even that. if he stays he should be prepared to let the knicks build a future with him as an older vet in a reduced role. my opinion is that the phil jackson and the franchise owe melo nothing. on the contrary, melo owes the knicks, and he can repay them by leaving or accepting that the knicks future is not centered on his late prime and twilight years.

just because the knicks grossly overpaid not once but twice for melo does not mean the knicks should do more of the same by signing older, injury-prone vets and vastly overrated players that keep getting traded.

Dolan being involved is pure speculation on your part. Phil Jackson told everyone he was hired with the promise to have total freedom and there is zero indication that he has had anything but total freedom. In no way have we caught any whiff of Dolan meddling since Phil took over.

The no trade clause was gratuitous in the extreme. Only a malignant narcissist, a notorious, alcholic star-phucker would reward a player that kind of control. I am sorry but you sound naive here.

No he doesn't sound naive. If Dolan negotiates that deal Melo doesn't take a little less in his second year and he still gets a ntc. Also, Phil would say if Dolan was involved. Phil did the deal. He wanted wiggle room in year two and gave up the ntc.

Where there's smoke there's fire. At least Jackson was allowed to make the draft pick.

But there was no smoke. In no way did we get the idea from anywhere that Dolan was involved. The smoke you are referring to is just your assumption, and there was no fire.

MS wrote:I am not sure why it's a problem if he doesn't want to be part of the rebuilding process.

hil, for whatever reason gave Derek Fisher the guys to the franchise for 5 years and fire him after 1 1/2. He traded an expiring center and serviceable player making $4MM a year for Jose Calderon, clogging up our cap and giving us perhaps the worst starting point guard in the league. As much as I couldn't stand JR Smith, he opted out last year and would have been off the team either way this offseason, so Phil could have packaged Tyson and Shumpert, with Felton for a better package if need be. His moves so far have been short term which is good. Lopez was a nice signing, all the other guys are questionable at this point, but he structured the deals the right way.

Maybe some of Melo not getting the right teammates falls on him, but JR Smith and a past his prime Billups are the best that he has ever had. Since he has been here the Knicks misused the amnesty provision, locked in Steve Novak for 16MM over 4 years, sacrificed a first round pick for Barnagni. It's not his fault he wanted his money. Our owner panicked and made a bad trade the first time around for him.

We have had 4 winning seasons in 15 years. There is no proof that next year will be any different.

Agree with all except it being a bad trade for Melo. It did not produce much value. The nets package for DWill, Lakers and Sixers package for Dwight, and Cleveland's package for Love, all produced more value. Our deal was market value, possibly less, for Melo who was a star just entering his prime at age 26.

dk7th wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

dk7th wrote:i don't see a conundrum at all. melo got his money, the clock wound down to zero. then phil jackson hoped he could get melo to stay at a significant discount, which melo refused to do. then, in a move that has james dolan's paw prints and stench all over it, a no-trade clause was thrown in. this is a sign of a malignant narcissist, someone who can't help but foul his own nest. meanwhile a high percentage of the fanbase goes along in some sort of hypnotic surrender, agreeing with a melo-centric narrative.

that's just wrong... and perverse.

jackson ought to be allowed to do the work he wanted to do and in fact was hired to do, which is build a culture with lasting power, and that culture would outlast melo's career as a knick. there is no sense in rushing. there is a huge amount of inertia that this ship is under and it takes much longer than just two seasons to undergo a genuine course correction. if melo doesn't like the rate of the course correction then he can waive the no-trade and chase championships like so many also-rans have in the past. no shame in that but of course his legacy as a knick will be of the bronze sort, maybe not even that. if he stays he should be prepared to let the knicks build a future with him as an older vet in a reduced role. my opinion is that the phil jackson and the franchise owe melo nothing. on the contrary, melo owes the knicks, and he can repay them by leaving or accepting that the knicks future is not centered on his late prime and twilight years.

just because the knicks grossly overpaid not once but twice for melo does not mean the knicks should do more of the same by signing older, injury-prone vets and vastly overrated players that keep getting traded.

Dolan being involved is pure speculation on your part. Phil Jackson told everyone he was hired with the promise to have total freedom and there is zero indication that he has had anything but total freedom. In no way have we caught any whiff of Dolan meddling since Phil took over.

The no trade clause was gratuitous in the extreme. Only a malignant narcissist, a notorious, alcholic star-phucker would reward a player that kind of control. I am sorry but you sound naive here.

No he doesn't sound naive. If Dolan negotiates that deal Melo doesn't take a little less in his second year and he still gets a ntc. Also, Phil would say if Dolan was involved. Phil did the deal. He wanted wiggle room in year two and gave up the ntc.

and how do you know this inside info? Reading da future? Dolans mind? Melo's?

I thought almost everyone on this board could read Melo's mind? It's seems like a pretty simple process.

"We grossly overpaid twice for Melo." We're going to keep seeing this broken line of reasoning forever, while reading about how the unwashed, illiterate fanbase "goes along with a melo-centric narrative." As if in the past 5 years there's been any other narrative to pay attention to. Or any other legitimate star who had the cojones to actually WANT to come here and play. Malignant, narcissistic, alcoholic, self-fouling, notorious starphuquer or no.

This is so brilliant on so many levels; the background narrative that drones on about how the franchise was entering the sunshine of the Gallonari/Stat era, a narrative that espouses about how great things were before a certain money grubbing overpaid professional athlete came here and made millions of dollars at this poor franchise's expense, and that any number of HOF coaches or shining stars have been quashed and dimmed by said greedy professional athlete. None of which has any basis in fact or subsequent performance, other than this particular professional athlete actually had the gall and insidiousness to want to get paid alot of money. While just happening to be darkening this arena while said franchise got further than it has in over a decade. The putrid, fastidious, self-absorbed bastid!

His legacy as a New York Knickerbocker is not looking too good, even among his most rampant nut garglers and devoted fluffers. Maybe that's why they're so defensive and thin skinned.

Possibly 3 more seasons to go to improve the legacy, no matter how much the pantytwisted, whining, beeyatching haters drone on. Possibly that's why they're continually reduced to making broad pronouncements that have no basis in fact.

Wow, I never realized how much pointless fun it can be to just call people names as a replacement format for thoughtful response... actually, I still haven't realized it.

ChuckBuck wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

dk7th wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

dk7th wrote:i don't see a conundrum at all. melo got his money, the clock wound down to zero. then phil jackson hoped he could get melo to stay at a significant discount, which melo refused to do. then, in a move that has james dolan's paw prints and stench all over it, a no-trade clause was thrown in. this is a sign of a malignant narcissist, someone who can't help but foul his own nest. meanwhile a high percentage of the fanbase goes along in some sort of hypnotic surrender, agreeing with a melo-centric narrative.

that's just wrong... and perverse.

jackson ought to be allowed to do the work he wanted to do and in fact was hired to do, which is build a culture with lasting power, and that culture would outlast melo's career as a knick. there is no sense in rushing. there is a huge amount of inertia that this ship is under and it takes much longer than just two seasons to undergo a genuine course correction. if melo doesn't like the rate of the course correction then he can waive the no-trade and chase championships like so many also-rans have in the past. no shame in that but of course his legacy as a knick will be of the bronze sort, maybe not even that. if he stays he should be prepared to let the knicks build a future with him as an older vet in a reduced role. my opinion is that the phil jackson and the franchise owe melo nothing. on the contrary, melo owes the knicks, and he can repay them by leaving or accepting that the knicks future is not centered on his late prime and twilight years.

just because the knicks grossly overpaid not once but twice for melo does not mean the knicks should do more of the same by signing older, injury-prone vets and vastly overrated players that keep getting traded.

Dolan being involved is pure speculation on your part. Phil Jackson told everyone he was hired with the promise to have total freedom and there is zero indication that he has had anything but total freedom. In no way have we caught any whiff of Dolan meddling since Phil took over.

The no trade clause was gratuitous in the extreme. Only a malignant narcissist, a notorious, alcholic star-phucker would reward a player that kind of control. I am sorry but you sound naive here.

No he doesn't sound naive. If Dolan negotiates that deal Melo doesn't take a little less in his second year and he still gets a ntc. Also, Phil would say if Dolan was involved. Phil did the deal. He wanted wiggle room in year two and gave up the ntc.

and how do you know this inside info? Reading da future? Dolans mind? Melo's?

I thought almost everyone on this board could read Melo's mind? It's seems like a pretty simple process.

"We grossly overpaid twice for Melo." We're going to keep seeing this broken line of reasoning forever, while reading about how the unwashed, illiterate fanbase "goes along with a melo-centric narrative." As if in the past 5 years there's been any other narrative to pay attention to. Or any other legitimate star who had the cojones to actually WANT to come here and play. Malignant, narcissistic, alcoholic, self-fouling, notorious starphuquer or no.

This is so brilliant on so many levels; the background narrative that drones on about how the franchise was entering the sunshine of the Gallonari/Stat era, a narrative that espouses about how great things were before a certain money grubbing overpaid professional athlete came here and made millions of dollars at this poor franchise's expense, and that any number of HOF coaches or shining stars have been quashed and dimmed by said greedy professional athlete. None of which has any basis in fact or subsequent performance, other than this particular professional athlete actually had the gall and insidiousness to want to get paid alot of money. While just happening to be darkening this arena while said franchise got further than it has in over a decade. The putrid, fastidious, self-absorbed bastid!

His legacy as a New York Knickerbocker is not looking too good, even among his most rampant nut garglers and devoted fluffers. Maybe that's why they're so defensive and thin skinned.

Possibly 3 more seasons to go to improve the legacy, no matter how much the pantytwisted, whining, beeyatching haters drone on. Possibly that's why they're continually reduced to making broad pronouncements that have no basis in fact.

Wow, I never realized how much pointless fun it can be to just call people names as a replacement format for thoughtful response... actually, I still haven't realized it.

If Melo's still here 3 more seasons, I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn from a Nigerian prince that can help your penile grow 13 inches just by working at home.

A lot of comedy on the board today. Must be something in the air.

HofstraBBall wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Anyway the Knicks should have done what they are doing now 3 yrs ago. If after the trade they amnestied Amare and let Billups expire and focused on using the 30mil in cap space to build the team back up. While also hitting on at least one of there draft picks I.E Douglas, Shumpert, Hardaway and or moving Fields for something rather losing him for nothing. Then they wouldn't be in the situation they are in currently.

We didn't hit on picks and didn't maintain cap flexibility, not going to sustain any type of success.

You Just listed 4 reasons why it's not so easy to say let's just rebuild. Add Hill, Sweetney, Frye, Collins, Balkmon, Chanbdler, Lee, Gallinari to that list.

8 years of good picks. 8 years of lottery. After that they win the thing, draft Rose, he's an MVP and they still don't win ****. God imagine 8 years of this