crzymdups wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:Still don't see Wroten as anything like Shved as a distributor.

The cult-like love for Wroten is along the line of how some had a crush on Jimmer or Stein prior to the draft.

Continues to amaze me how we some players develop a stubborn following of fans who refuse to see the player for what he really is.

Phil seems to have given him a team friendly contract, but what annoys me is that we did not sign someone to a 10 Day deal who could actually play ball at this time.

The Wroten signing is as much about Phil giving Rambis a chance to prove himself with the guys he has nowwithout having to worry about developing another young player.

Willie Cauley Stein currently has a WS/48 that is much higher than Kristaps Porzingis, Walt. Did you ever stop to consider your own fan boy bias?

Stein is a creature of Rondo's PG play and the fact that he has no need to be a complete player on offense because of Cousins and Gay.

What we had to put up with about him was that he was going to be doing things for the Knicks that he had NEVER done before...and has not done this year.

He has few complicated responsibilities on that team, and his minutes have been very limited at times...no problem with a rookie wall for him.

We dodged a bullet by not taking Stein, and the Kings f'd up by not taking Mudiay or Turner.

mreinman wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Someone was asking at some point if there had ever been a Triangle PG to shoot 65% or lower from the FT line and if there were he'd believe in Wroten. I responded with Ron Harper, and of course the OP never responded. I guess he missed it!

But something to consider - Ron Harper's first season in Chicago:

FG% .426 3PT% .282 FT% .618

Not saying that is ideal, but saying that Harper grew into a pretty player as a Bull, even though he joined the team at age 31.

ron harper would not work in todays game and also, you chose his first year which was his worst.

Think about how he did change...from being a go to guy scorer mentioned as the next Jordan by some to just a complimentary player known for tough defense and heady play.

WaltLongmire wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:Still don't see Wroten as anything like Shved as a distributor.

The cult-like love for Wroten is along the line of how some had a crush on Jimmer or Stein prior to the draft.

Continues to amaze me how we some players develop a stubborn following of fans who refuse to see the player for what he really is.

Phil seems to have given him a team friendly contract, but what annoys me is that we did not sign someone to a 10 Day deal who could actually play ball at this time.

The Wroten signing is as much about Phil giving Rambis a chance to prove himself with the guys he has nowwithout having to worry about developing another young player.

Willie Cauley Stein currently has a WS/48 that is much higher than Kristaps Porzingis, Walt. Did you ever stop to consider your own fan boy bias?

Naw. You rarely see me gushing over a player that much, anyway...even the guys I like, and I'm always critical of KP.

Stein is a creature of Rondo's PG play and the fact that he has no need to be a complete player on offense because of Cousins and Gay.

What we had to put up with about him was that he was going to be doing things for the Knicks that he had NEVER done before...and has not done this year.

He has few complicated responsibilities on that team, and his minutes have been very limited at times...no problem with a rookie wall for him.

We dodged a bullet by not taking Stein, and the Kings f'd up by not taking Mudiay or Turner.

Stein is a perfect fit to play next to Cousins if the Kings intend to build around him, which it appears they do.

It's funny how some folks consider advanced stats to be the end all and be all here, until they don't fit their narrative.

nixluva wrote:For me the key is that Wroten has elite handles and quickness at 6-6! You just don't give up on a 22 yr old with his physical talent when you can get him for nothing. Bring him in to your program. Give him a clear role and the training he needs. See how he responds.

I agree with this - one thing Wroten has in addition to his skillset is ELITE athleticism at 6'6" combo guard. If you can harness it, you have a player.

We have all lamented at various times this year and the past few years that we do not have elite athletes. Wroten is one. KP is one. I wanted WCS because he is also one and I had never seen KP play and knew nothing about him.

It's funny to me that some expect KP to become an efficient scorer - currently shooting .419 overall and .332 from 3pt - while already deciding that Wroten cannot improve on his best numbers of .426 overall and .261 from 3pt when he's only 22. He's got a feel for the game and averaged 17ppg at age 21. If KP were averaging 17ppg, people here would be demanding he be named rookie of the year.

I love KP and I believe he will get more selective and efficient. I have seen his understanding of the game in his moves, and I feel sure he'll be able to translate that plus his athleticism into something special.

Why is it so hard for so many here to make the same leap with Wroten? What is the difference between Wroten's shooting stats at age 22 and KP's at age 20 that make people here feel so differently about their potential? Not to mention Wroten played on a crap team with nowhere near the caliber of players of Rolo, Melo, even Afflalo or Calderon.

Can't believe some are so closed minded and point to shooting stats for a young kid while completely ignoring the same stats when they talk about KP.

Again, I think both kids, KIDS, have it in them to become something special.

I think a year from now we will feel like Wroten is a fixture on this team and in any fantasy lineups we create for the following seasons, whether starting or off the bench, who knows? But I think he'll be a rotation player for us. Just my prediction.

Bonn1997 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Someone was asking at some point if there had ever been a Triangle PG to shoot 65% or lower from the FT line and if there were he'd believe in Wroten. I responded with Ron Harper, and of course the OP never responded. I guess he missed it!

But something to consider - Ron Harper's first season in Chicago:

FG% .426 3PT% .282 FT% .618

Not saying that is ideal, but saying that Harper grew into a pretty player as a Bull, even though he joined the team at age 31.

Let's sign every guard who can't shoot! One of then will be the next Ron Harper! I'm just exaggerating.

well if you can't shoot its like being a child with who just can't behave. These days you just drug the kid up and voila!

There are drugs that we can give wroten that will just fix this lacking of the shooting gene.

Bonn1997 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Someone was asking at some point if there had ever been a Triangle PG to shoot 65% or lower from the FT line and if there were he'd believe in Wroten. I responded with Ron Harper, and of course the OP never responded. I guess he missed it!

But something to consider - Ron Harper's first season in Chicago:

FG% .426 3PT% .282 FT% .618

Not saying that is ideal, but saying that Harper grew into a pretty player as a Bull, even though he joined the team at age 31.

Let's sign every guard who can't shoot! One of then will be the next Ron Harper! I'm just exaggerating.

He provides the team with something it sorely lacks - the ability to get to the rim.

A shot can be improved, shot selection can be improved, particularly in young players.

It doesn't mean it will happen, but it can. As a team with no draft pick this year, Wroten is a pretty high upside, cap neutral free agent to be able to grab in the midst of yet another lost season.

Bonn1997 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Someone was asking at some point if there had ever been a Triangle PG to shoot 65% or lower from the FT line and if there were he'd believe in Wroten. I responded with Ron Harper, and of course the OP never responded. I guess he missed it!

But something to consider - Ron Harper's first season in Chicago:

FG% .426 3PT% .282 FT% .618

Not saying that is ideal, but saying that Harper grew into a pretty player as a Bull, even though he joined the team at age 31.

Let's sign every guard who can't shoot! One of then will be the next Ron Harper! I'm just exaggerating.

He provides the team with something it sorely lacks - the ability to get to the rim.

A shot can be improved, shot selection can be improved, particularly in young players.

It doesn't mean it will happen, but it can. As a team with no draft pick this year, Wroten is a pretty high upside, cap neutral free agent to be able to grab in the midst of yet another lost season.

as long as we're not giving him guaranteed money into next year

Even if it was, it's not a lot of money. What's your fear exactly?

crzymdups wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

mreinman wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Someone was asking at some point if there had ever been a Triangle PG to shoot 65% or lower from the FT line and if there were he'd believe in Wroten. I responded with Ron Harper, and of course the OP never responded. I guess he missed it!

But something to consider - Ron Harper's first season in Chicago:

FG% .426 3PT% .282 FT% .618

Not saying that is ideal, but saying that Harper grew into a pretty player as a Bull, even though he joined the team at age 31.

ron harper would not work in todays game and also, you chose his first year which was his worst.

I think Harper would have ended up being a better 3PT shooter today since it would have been stressed so much as he was coming up.

Think about how he did change...from being a go to guy scorer mentioned as the next Jordan by some to just a complimentary player known for tough defense and heady play.

I think Wroten is capable of the same adjustment from my own observation. Time will tell. Also worth noting that Harper was 31 and Wroten is 22. I think he can be more efficient in a reduced role.

The most important aspect of basketball is IQ. Ron Harper's basketball IQ (along with most of the bulls players) was very high. This is where Wroten will strugle. And this is also why they rather he heal up physically, and grow up mentally. You have to be able to play in a system you're not famaliar with, while continuing to use your instincts. Everybody thats physically gifted, doesn't have high basketball IQ to play in the triangle system. JR Smith is just as gifted as Wrotten, but struggled in this system. So it's very difficult to know who's triangle ready or not, until you see them playing in this system. Or they've played in a similar system in college.

mreinman wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Someone was asking at some point if there had ever been a Triangle PG to shoot 65% or lower from the FT line and if there were he'd believe in Wroten. I responded with Ron Harper, and of course the OP never responded. I guess he missed it!

But something to consider - Ron Harper's first season in Chicago:

FG% .426 3PT% .282 FT% .618

Not saying that is ideal, but saying that Harper grew into a pretty player as a Bull, even though he joined the team at age 31.

Let's sign every guard who can't shoot! One of then will be the next Ron Harper! I'm just exaggerating.

He provides the team with something it sorely lacks - the ability to get to the rim.

A shot can be improved, shot selection can be improved, particularly in young players.

It doesn't mean it will happen, but it can. As a team with no draft pick this year, Wroten is a pretty high upside, cap neutral free agent to be able to grab in the midst of yet another lost season.

"A shot can be improved"

what do you think are the actual chances that his shot will improve enough to be passable?

I say 20% if he has everything else in place which is probably not more than a 20% chance in itself.

basically, I think he has a very very low chance of success.

JJ Reddick shot 41% from the field at age 22. He's at 48% from the field at age 31.

Durant shot 43% his rookie season, 51% now.

Dirk shot 40% his rookie season, shot 52% at his peak.

Plenty of players improve their shot and shot selection as they mature.