knicks1248 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Even if we had purely bad players--where is the identity here?

Even bad players could produce good ball movement--have high energy up and won the court--move the ball---I dont see anything? Were e team that is built on a player or two getting hot --maybe Calderon goes 6-8 and has 20 points the same night Melo has 34. But its not built on good basketball play and thats why Phil is here???

to run the triangle well every player needs to be in peak physical condition... you could start there instead of what you're doing. who among the knicks is in good enough shape?

who among the starters:

who among the bench:

you can fill in the blanks. me? i am drawing a blank.

you are hooked on phil and the triangle ... they are a big part of the problem. Old school bball is for old folks.

maybe, maybe not. cleaning up dolan's mess was never going to be easy.

so phil inherited dolans mess? is that the problem?

Phil is making the mess.

who awarded the no-trade clause to carmelo? t'wasn't phil. you may not care for the triangle and the poor way it is being implemented, but that does not mean you can conflate that with the no-trade clause.

and the contract melo was awarded turned out to be ridiculous, 25-30 fantastic games from melo notwithstanding. was phil jackson the main negotiator there? melo's contract makes the lin streak of 12-15 games and his subsequent contract look like a bargain.

It was not phil? Thought he had autonomy? If he didn't then he should have not taken this job as a telecommuter money grab.

you may be suffering from medium-term memory loss or simply don't know how to read situations. i can't tell for sure.

nonetheless where dolan/melo are concerned "autonomy" has a fluid definition. the evidence and the history is there and dolan is guilty until proven innocent.

rhetorical question: who do you think cares more about the knicks legacy, phil or dolan? who cares more about winning titles, phil or dolan? please don't pull a crushalot on me here....

Are you looking at the game or the $$$ or the stat line. WTF is going on the court, that's not winning basketball, you kidding me with this "he gets paid too much crap", this about the bs these players are put out their to do, they have idea.

you and a host of other knicks fans are exasperated. believe me i am too. knicks have been bad and worse than bad for many seasons now with one season of being slightly better than average, maybe two.

you're attacks on jackson are both on his person and on his work? if so, is one the cause of the other? maybe some knicks fans are upset that jackson was a bulls and lakers coach and yet don't factor in his career as a knick player? i will ask the same question i have been asking: who do you think cares more about the knicks succeeding and winning, jackson or dolan?

for the record, i was just old enough to remember the 1972-73 season and it is one of my most lasting and deepest memories. i mention this because you are likely too young to either have lived or remembered that season-- you see what i am saying?

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Even if we had purely bad players--where is the identity here?

Even bad players could produce good ball movement--have high energy up and won the court--move the ball---I dont see anything? Were e team that is built on a player or two getting hot --maybe Calderon goes 6-8 and has 20 points the same night Melo has 34. But its not built on good basketball play and thats why Phil is here???

to run the triangle well every player needs to be in peak physical condition... you could start there instead of what you're doing. who among the knicks is in good enough shape?

who among the starters:

who among the bench:

you can fill in the blanks. me? i am drawing a blank.

you are hooked on phil and the triangle ... they are a big part of the problem. Old school bball is for old folks.

maybe, maybe not. cleaning up dolan's mess was never going to be easy.

so phil inherited dolans mess? is that the problem?

Phil is making the mess.

who awarded the no-trade clause to carmelo? t'wasn't phil. you may not care for the triangle and the poor way it is being implemented, but that does not mean you can conflate that with the no-trade clause.

and the contract melo was awarded turned out to be ridiculous, 25-30 fantastic games from melo notwithstanding. was phil jackson the main negotiator there? melo's contract makes the lin streak of 12-15 games and his subsequent contract look like a bargain.

It was not phil? Thought he had autonomy? If he didn't then he should have not taken this job as a telecommuter money grab.

dk7th wrote:we shall see. i still don't know what my words taste like when it come to the knicks.

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Even if we had purely bad players--where is the identity here?

Even bad players could produce good ball movement--have high energy up and won the court--move the ball---I dont see anything? Were e team that is built on a player or two getting hot --maybe Calderon goes 6-8 and has 20 points the same night Melo has 34. But its not built on good basketball play and thats why Phil is here???

to run the triangle well every player needs to be in peak physical condition... you could start there instead of what you're doing. who among the knicks is in good enough shape?

who among the starters:

who among the bench:

you can fill in the blanks. me? i am drawing a blank.

you are hooked on phil and the triangle ... they are a big part of the problem. Old school bball is for old folks.

maybe, maybe not. cleaning up dolan's mess was never going to be easy.

so phil inherited dolans mess? is that the problem?

Phil is making the mess.

nyknickzingis wrote:The Knicks have one of the best front courts in the NBA. At least top 7 in the league.

Lopez's PER is 17.4
Kritsap's PER is 18.4
Melo's PER is 20.4
DWill's PER is 17.2

We've got 4 players there that can make a heck of a NBA front court rotation. All we really need is to sign an athletic wing who can defend the 3 and 2 spots, which I'm sure Phil will look at. I'm not interested in paying big money to Lance Thomas. I'm hoping/expecting Kristaps to get better and so will his PER and level as a player over the next year or two.

Now if you look at our guards.

Afflalo's PER is 12.1
Calderon's PER is 12.3
Galloway's PER is 11.9

People make it all about Jose, but Jose's not even our worst guard on the roster. They are all pretty below average. We don't have a single starting caliber guard on the roster. Galloway's been given minutes and while he is better defensively, his PER and level of play indicates a player that isn't starting caliber either.

Now lets look at another "system" ball club. The one Phil really loves to compare to. Their guards.

Ginobli's PER is 19.2
Parker's PER is 17.8
Mill's PER is 15.8

And of course their front court is loaded with Leonard (25+ PER) Aldridge (21 PER) and Duncan (16.9 PER)

I can't believe people actually buy this entire Triangle is the problem, Phil Jackson doesn't know basketball theory. This is a talent issue. The team has made only 3 major moves. All were for the front court. Re-signing Melo in 2014. Drafting Kristaps with a high lottery pick in 2015. Signing Lopez to a major contract. Now it's time to make some big investments on guards, on backcourt players.

I'd like to see us with some balance of talent with regards to front court and backcourt talent and then see what the real problem is. You could have Greg Popovic as a head coach running his system, and good luck with him having success with Afflalo/Calderon as his top 2 guards. He just wouldn't.

If Phil can bring back Lopez/Porzingis/Melo/Williams and make 2 changes to our backcourt, with players that are actually proven NBA starters and capable to give you 30-35 minutes a night there, we'll be a completely different team next year. I'd bring back Grant/Galloway as backups. I'd replace Lance Thomas with someone better on defense at the perimeter (Lance is better as a stretch 4, when we need someone who can stop the ball and be a good perimeter defender). My coaching choices would be Luke or Thibs. I don't want Rambis back as head coach, I would like to see him back as an associate head coach.

It will be hard to get 2 backcourt starters without a draft pick

Interesting that Stan Van Gundy sees the opportunity the Knicks have to grow and grow significantly with 1 big move or 2 solid moves this summer. They're about 5-6 wins away from a playoff team this year. Add those players in the summer (or 1 major player) and they'll have the talent to be in the playoffs. I also think we're not completely out of the equation for some star players. If Durant, DeRozan and Conley - if any of them decide to move on - they'll definitely consider the Knicks based on the fact that they have major talent right away (Melo, KP) and have the NY market with Dolan's promise to always pay 100's of millions to keep them happy. This is an important factor overlooked. Last year the Knicks were far less marketable to a free agent than this year. KP's a known commodity around the league now and NY's seen as a competitive team in the sense where 1 big move or 2 solid moves could put them in strong playoff position.

The thing I'm not sure on is whether it's even in the best interests of the franchise to try and max out anyone but Durant. Conley's a good player and so is DeRozan, but I'm not sure I want either next to Melo making a combined 50 million a year. I think I rather spend 20-25 million on 2 quality players that can start.

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Even if we had purely bad players--where is the identity here?

Even bad players could produce good ball movement--have high energy up and won the court--move the ball---I dont see anything? Were e team that is built on a player or two getting hot --maybe Calderon goes 6-8 and has 20 points the same night Melo has 34. But its not built on good basketball play and thats why Phil is here???

to run the triangle well every player needs to be in peak physical condition... you could start there instead of what you're doing. who among the knicks is in good enough shape?

who among the starters:

who among the bench:

you can fill in the blanks. me? i am drawing a blank.

you are hooked on phil and the triangle ... they are a big part of the problem. Old school bball is for old folks.

maybe, maybe not. cleaning up dolan's mess was never going to be easy.

so phil inherited dolans mess? is that the problem?

Phil is making the mess.

who awarded the no-trade clause to carmelo? t'wasn't phil. you may not care for the triangle and the poor way it is being implemented, but that does not mean you can conflate that with the no-trade clause.

and the contract melo was awarded turned out to be ridiculous, 25-30 fantastic games from melo notwithstanding. was phil jackson the main negotiator there? melo's contract makes the lin streak of 12-15 games and his subsequent contract look like a bargain.

It was not phil? Thought he had autonomy? If he didn't then he should have not taken this job as a telecommuter money grab.

you may be suffering from medium-term memory loss or simply don't know how to read situations. i can't tell for sure.

nonetheless where dolan/melo are concerned "autonomy" has a fluid definition. the evidence and the history is there and dolan is guilty until proven innocent.

rhetorical question: who do you think cares more about the knicks legacy, phil or dolan? who cares more about winning titles, phil or dolan? please don't pull a crushalot on me here....

They both care about themselves and not looking bad. Dolan has not fared as well in this area.

I ask again, did phil know the deal when he took this job? Or, was this a money grab? Or did he agree with the melo path?

Phil before he officially signed on, while woody was hanging naked from the rafters, we could have received a boat load for tyson and a kings ransom for melo. Nixed! We also had a Lowry deal on the table. NIXED!

Phil has so far failed miserably and I have been screaming from the beginning about our stupid system that don't work in new school bball.

Please tell what phil has done here that was good.

Do you think that Pat the rat could not have done a far better job then our money grabbing telecommuter who always shows an offline status?

Please give me a straight answer on this and please don't pull a crushAloT:

What do you think phil cares more about, the knicks? Or the Triangle?

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Even if we had purely bad players--where is the identity here?

Even bad players could produce good ball movement--have high energy up and won the court--move the ball---I dont see anything? Were e team that is built on a player or two getting hot --maybe Calderon goes 6-8 and has 20 points the same night Melo has 34. But its not built on good basketball play and thats why Phil is here???

to run the triangle well every player needs to be in peak physical condition... you could start there instead of what you're doing. who among the knicks is in good enough shape?

who among the starters:

who among the bench:

you can fill in the blanks. me? i am drawing a blank.

you are hooked on phil and the triangle ... they are a big part of the problem. Old school bball is for old folks.

maybe, maybe not. cleaning up dolan's mess was never going to be easy.

so phil inherited dolans mess? is that the problem?

Phil is making the mess.

who awarded the no-trade clause to carmelo? t'wasn't phil. you may not care for the triangle and the poor way it is being implemented, but that does not mean you can conflate that with the no-trade clause.

and the contract melo was awarded turned out to be ridiculous, 25-30 fantastic games from melo notwithstanding. was phil jackson the main negotiator there? melo's contract makes the lin streak of 12-15 games and his subsequent contract look like a bargain.

It was not phil? Thought he had autonomy? If he didn't then he should have not taken this job as a telecommuter money grab.

you may be suffering from medium-term memory loss or simply don't know how to read situations. i can't tell for sure.

nonetheless where dolan/melo are concerned "autonomy" has a fluid definition. the evidence and the history is there and dolan is guilty until proven innocent.

rhetorical question: who do you think cares more about the knicks legacy, phil or dolan? who cares more about winning titles, phil or dolan? please don't pull a crushalot on me here....

They both care about themselves and not looking bad. Dolan has not fared as well in this area.

I ask again, did phil know the deal when he took this job? Or, was this a money grab? Or did he agree with the melo path?

Phil before he officially signed on, while woody was hanging naked from the rafters, we could have received a boat load for tyson and a kings ransom for melo. Nixed! We also had a Lowry deal on the table. NIXED!

Phil has so far failed miserably and I have been screaming from the beginning about our stupid system that don't work in new school bball.

Please tell what phil has done here that was good.

Do you think that Pat the rat could not have done a far better job then our money grabbing telecommuter who always shows an offline status?

Please give me a straight answer on this and please don't pull a crushAloT:

What do you think phil cares more about, the knicks? Or the Triangle?

Didn't realize you that bent for being called out for posting Melo hate all summer.

you are irrelevant only that dk told me to not pull a crushalot and I thought that it was a good catchy term.

WaltLongmire wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Even if we had purely bad players--where is the identity here?

Even bad players could produce good ball movement--have high energy up and won the court--move the ball---I dont see anything? Were e team that is built on a player or two getting hot --maybe Calderon goes 6-8 and has 20 points the same night Melo has 34. But its not built on good basketball play and thats why Phil is here???

to run the triangle well every player needs to be in peak physical condition... you could start there instead of what you're doing. who among the knicks is in good enough shape?

who among the starters:

who among the bench:

you can fill in the blanks. me? i am drawing a blank.

you are hooked on phil and the triangle ... they are a big part of the problem. Old school bball is for old folks.

maybe, maybe not. cleaning up dolan's mess was never going to be easy.

so phil inherited dolans mess? is that the problem?

Phil is making the mess.

who awarded the no-trade clause to carmelo? t'wasn't phil. you may not care for the triangle and the poor way it is being implemented, but that does not mean you can conflate that with the no-trade clause.

and the contract melo was awarded turned out to be ridiculous, 25-30 fantastic games from melo notwithstanding. was phil jackson the main negotiator there? melo's contract makes the lin streak of 12-15 games and his subsequent contract look like a bargain.

It was not phil? Thought he had autonomy? If he didn't then he should have not taken this job as a telecommuter money grab.

you may be suffering from medium-term memory loss or simply don't know how to read situations. i can't tell for sure.

nonetheless where dolan/melo are concerned "autonomy" has a fluid definition. the evidence and the history is there and dolan is guilty until proven innocent.

rhetorical question: who do you think cares more about the knicks legacy, phil or dolan? who cares more about winning titles, phil or dolan? please don't pull a crushalot on me here....

They both care about themselves and not looking bad. Dolan has not fared as well in this area.

I ask again, did phil know the deal when he took this job? Or, was this a money grab? Or did he agree with the melo path?

Phil before he officially signed on, while woody was hanging naked from the rafters, we could have received a boat load for tyson and a kings ransom for melo. Nixed! We also had a Lowry deal on the table. NIXED!

Phil has so far failed miserably and I have been screaming from the beginning about our stupid system that don't work in new school bball.

Please tell what phil has done here that was good.

Do you think that Pat the rat could not have done a far better job then our money grabbing telecommuter who always shows an offline status?

Please give me a straight answer on this and please don't pull a crushAloT:

What do you think phil cares more about, the knicks? Or the Triangle?

Didn't realize you that bent for being called out for posting Melo hate all summer.

you are irrelevant only that dk told me to not pull a crushalot and I thought that it was a good catchy term.

Irrelevant as a human being...poster on this site...Knicks' fan?

CrushAlot's self-esteem is sure to be damaged irreparably.

nyknickzingis wrote:The Knicks have one of the best front courts in the NBA. At least top 7 in the league.

Lopez's PER is 17.4
Kritsap's PER is 18.4
Melo's PER is 20.4
DWill's PER is 17.2

We've got 4 players there that can make a heck of a NBA front court rotation. All we really need is to sign an athletic wing who can defend the 3 and 2 spots, which I'm sure Phil will look at. I'm not interested in paying big money to Lance Thomas. I'm hoping/expecting Kristaps to get better and so will his PER and level as a player over the next year or two.

Now if you look at our guards.

Afflalo's PER is 12.1
Calderon's PER is 12.3
Galloway's PER is 11.9

People make it all about Jose, but Jose's not even our worst guard on the roster. They are all pretty below average. We don't have a single starting caliber guard on the roster. Galloway's been given minutes and while he is better defensively, his PER and level of play indicates a player that isn't starting caliber either.

Now lets look at another "system" ball club. The one Phil really loves to compare to. Their guards.

Ginobli's PER is 19.2
Parker's PER is 17.8
Mill's PER is 15.8

And of course their front court is loaded with Leonard (25+ PER) Aldridge (21 PER) and Duncan (16.9 PER)

I can't believe people actually buy this entire Triangle is the problem, Phil Jackson doesn't know basketball theory. This is a talent issue. The team has made only 3 major moves. All were for the front court. Re-signing Melo in 2014. Drafting Kristaps with a high lottery pick in 2015. Signing Lopez to a major contract. Now it's time to make some big investments on guards, on backcourt players.

I'd like to see us with some balance of talent with regards to front court and backcourt talent and then see what the real problem is. You could have Greg Popovic as a head coach running his system, and good luck with him having success with Afflalo/Calderon as his top 2 guards. He just wouldn't.

If Phil can bring back Lopez/Porzingis/Melo/Williams and make 2 changes to our backcourt, with players that are actually proven NBA starters and capable to give you 30-35 minutes a night there, we'll be a completely different team next year. I'd bring back Grant/Galloway as backups. I'd replace Lance Thomas with someone better on defense at the perimeter (Lance is better as a stretch 4, when we need someone who can stop the ball and be a good perimeter defender). My coaching choices would be Luke or Thibs. I don't want Rambis back as head coach, I would like to see him back as an associate head coach.

Nice summary. It's clear Phil/Triangle/Melo are not the problems. Horrid backcourt was exposed early in the season and every team takes maximum advantage. Not much we can do with such suckiness except replace our backcourt. Hopefully that happens this summer.

Also agree that Walton or Thibs is a likely replacement for Rambo, who's a good guy but not HC material.