ChuckBuck wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

martin wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Dam is there an echo in here?

It's like there's a serial poster/stalker that can't stand their lovah-man getting rightfully disparaged.

I think you are missing the real point that there is no real merit to this article. No offer was on the table. Boston may or may not have called to even expressed interest. Who knows what an offer might have looked like. Too many variables here to really even discuss this. The article was click bait and we all clicked on it. Mission accomplished by ESPN.

The real point is not whether there was a pending deal or not, or if the Knicks were waiting on Melo to sign off on approving such a hypothetical deal, but that the Knicks broached Melo about the possibility to play for the 3rd seeded team in the east with an all star point guard and a bright head coach and future, and he ultimately chose to play for the 13th place non competitive team instead.

That's the point, that he'd rather be content playing out the string on a team not going anywhere, then really competing for something that truly matters. That shows you where his head is at, and as a Knicks fan I phucking hate it.

No, that's your interpretation of what you think is going on and what everyone is trying to tell you is pretty much skewed or flat out wrong.

Why didn't he go to Chicago then? Rose, Butler, Melo, Gasol, and Noah.

Tell me why, Martin? Answer's staring all of you in the face.

Probably because that situation wasn't as stable as people make it out to be. Thibs, who is now gone, was constantly warring with the front office; Rose was missing season after season after season; Pau Gasol wasn't even there at the time; and Jimmy Butler hadn't come into his own yet. Joakim Noah was really the omly aaving grace of the franchise but even he was showing signs of wear and tear that could hamper his future viability. Then add a paycut to that mix....

Given all that, which team was more attractive at the time? Getting a chance to knock off the Cavs in the East finals to finally crack the NBA Finals in your career or play with a rookie head coach and studs like Calderon and Quincy Acy and Jason Smith?

I mean he knew signing the contract would mean futility versus a winning team close to ring contention, come on now.

The Bulls were a winning team but things change quickly in this league. Last year they were a contender; this year they are fading out of the playoff picture entirely. The same can be said about the Rockets who had been courting him as well. That beig said, there was definitely uncertainty in both situations though on the surface, Chicago seemed like the better play. Today it might be a toss-up because I don't seem him being thrilled with the fact that they have picks to build their team with.

Yes, things are fluid obviously, but if Melo signed with either Chicago or Houston, who knows maybe Melo gets past Lebron in the east somehow or Houston makes thing interesting in the west.

Either situation was more attractive then, then going to play with Shane Larkin and Samuel Dalembert.

He wasn't going there on a one year gig; he'd be going there on a 4 year gig. And long-term it seems to be proving to be a poor decision, if it was made.

NardDogNation wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:
Why didn't he go to Chicago then? Rose, Butler, Melo, Gasol, and Noah.

Tell me why, Martin? Answer's staring all of you in the face.

People continue to oversell Rose. After dealing with Amare pretty sure there was zero interest in playing with another walking injury. In a slightly related story, Rose simply decided not to play last night. No association with an actual injury. Why would Melo or anybody for that mattereason want to join that?

Because Rose wouldn't have to be 2011 MVP Rose. It's Jimmy Buckets team anyways.

No it wasn't. You're taking real liberties here with series of events. Jimmy took a MASSIVE step last year to make it his team. He improved all aspects of his game. There was no assurance he would put in the effort and it would work. In addition, Gasol wasn't under contract that the time. It was Rose and Noah's team. While I agree it was an intriguing option for him, going to a team reliant on Rose isn't too attractive. I would like to hope we could agree on that.

Out of curiosity, if Melo bolted and we were left holding the bag, what would be the upside for the Knicks in your opinion?

Picks, role players, and no longterm financial albatross contract commitment.

True rebuild around KP, not this fake competing shyt we're doing now.

How? We get nothing if he leaves in FA. This isn't the MLB, we aren't getting a compensation pick. Also, when the cap goes up again this year, we may need to drop the cap thing. It isn't preventing us from doing anything.

KP is benefiting from not having to shoulder the load. Our fanbase isn't exactly the friendliest bunch. This is a better course for him as a player.

I'm talking about the 2016 off season fireside chat about life he'll have with the Zenmaster, not the past.

You were talking about going to Chicago. If you wanted a trade this break, I understand that, but you were complaining about him re-signing in 2014 hurting the team, which isn't true at all. If he doesn't resign, we get nothing!

That would be perfect. A true rebuild with no expectations. Grant would get actual playing time. Fisher would probably still be humping wives here lol.

A true rebuild with no 2016 pick makes no sense. We still managed to get a future franchise player in KP with Melo here and are in a position to recoup assets when Melo does waive his NTC. Not sure how this isn't a best case scenario, all things considered.

Thing could be worst, I agree. KP made sure of that.

That all said, why the phuck are we still playing Calderon and Vujacic? Are we still trying to make the playoffs or are we trying to develop young talent? Those guys shouldn't be let out of their caskets in a true rebuild.

Today we're officially eliminated from the playoffs (phuck mathematically eliminated, we were realistically eliminated the moment Melo stepped on a ref's foot and Fisher phucked all the wives). Why are we still playing old guys? Rest Melo for the rest of the season, if he's still part of the plan. Stretch Calderon. Waive Sasha.

This end of season makes no sense.

Andrew wrote:From the Knicks perspective it makes sense to wait. Why?

- The wait and see scenario. We have cap space to potentially add another star player alongside Melo. Probably won't happen, but I think management at the very least wants to give it a shot. Trading Melo means more space, but less likeliness for any top tier free agent coming this way. Dolan likely wants to see if this works first.

- Right now its harder to put a trade together. Completing the trade during this season means potentially taking back unwanted players whose salary extend past this year. With the cap going up and teams having Cap space, a trade in the next year could mean Boston absorbing more salary than they send back, and a more flexible trade scenario.

- Melo refusing. Melo right now may not have wanted to be traded...but if we strike out on FAs this off-season he may change his tune and open up the possibilities of destinations for him. More suitors means a better return for the Knicks.

- The offer from the Celtics is probably not going away. The Celtics will still have picks, and likely won't contend for a championship with the guys they have, so the Knicks have little to lose by waiting?

Pretty much spot on here. Wait and see will work much better for Knicks this season, as long as Melo doesn't get injured. Rambis needs to dramatically scale back his minutes/games to avoid that. We're closing in out playoff non-contention, so once we're there, it's yoots FTW!

ChuckBuck wrote:

Moonangie wrote:
Wait and see will work much better for Knicks this season, as long as Melo doesn't get injured. Rambis needs to dramatically scale back his minutes/games to avoid that. We're closing in out playoff non-contention, so once we're there, it's yoots FTW!

That's a HUGE caveat right there. 23 games is nothing to sneeze at, all it takes is one referee's size 12's...

Yes, that's true. I'm pretty much ready to shut him down now. Don't need to watch him go 5-for-20something every night. If he has no lift in his legs, he will be shooting poor %s. Let KP have more shots. Give some to AA to up his value (is he signed or a FA?) and for the love of Jehovah play Grant starter mins.

ChuckBuck wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Dam is there an echo in here?

It's like there's a serial poster/stalker that can't stand their lovah-man getting rightfully disparaged.

I think you are missing the real point that there is no real merit to this article. No offer was on the table. Boston may or may not have called to even expressed interest. Who knows what an offer might have looked like. Too many variables here to really even discuss this. The article was click bait and we all clicked on it. Mission accomplished by ESPN.

The real point is not whether there was a pending deal or not, or if the Knicks were waiting on Melo to sign off on approving such a hypothetical deal, but that the Knicks broached Melo about the possibility to play for the 3rd seeded team in the east with an all star point guard and a bright head coach and future, and he ultimately chose to play for the 13th place non competitive team instead.

That's the point, that he'd rather be content playing out the string on a team not going anywhere, then really competing for something that truly matters. That shows you where his head is at, and as a Knicks fan I phucking hate it.

Yeah it shows that his head is where he'll put up with playing on a bad team with the faith in Phil that he can get some significant players for him to play with all so he can play in the city that he loves playing for the team that he loves. How can anyone not see that as being a good thing?? The way you can't see it is that you have a hate for Melo which is obvious.You also have no way of knowing if Phil wanted Melo to sign off on a deal to Boston or not so you're doing nothing but assuming.

newyorker4ever wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Dam is there an echo in here?

It's like there's a serial poster/stalker that can't stand their lovah-man getting rightfully disparaged.

Rightfully disparaged by some guy on a message board doesn't count. Do you think Melo is a much better player this year than he's been for his career or do you just have a hate towards Melo that won't change no matter how his game is these days?? I obvously get that he had a bad game last night and he really hasn't been himself at all this year cause he usually has a much better 3 ball but if we end up trading Melo in the off season then you better be ready for it to take at least 5/6 years until a team is put together that anyone will even talk about for a deep playoff run and with Melo we can be ready for a deep playoff run in two years if we can get one significant player to come play for us this off season and one significant player the following off season and then good pieces around them.

Whoa. That read like one continuous run on sentence.

I'd rather do the 5-6 year sustainable route ala Golden State. We will not compete for a Championship with a 33 or 34 year old ready to retire Melo.

ChuckBuck wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Dam is there an echo in here?

It's like there's a serial poster/stalker that can't stand their lovah-man getting rightfully disparaged.

Rightfully disparaged by some guy on a message board doesn't count. Do you think Melo is a much better player this year than he's been for his career or do you just have a hate towards Melo that won't change no matter how his game is these days?? I obvously get that he had a bad game last night and he really hasn't been himself at all this year cause he usually has a much better 3 ball but if we end up trading Melo in the off season then you better be ready for it to take at least 5/6 years until a team is put together that anyone will even talk about for a deep playoff run and with Melo we can be ready for a deep playoff run in two years if we can get one significant player to come play for us this off season and one significant player the following off season and then good pieces around them.

Whoa. That read like one continuous run on sentence.

I'd rather do the 5-6 year sustainable route ala Golden State. We will not compete for a Championship with a 33 or 34 year old ready to retire Melo.

ChuckBuck wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Dam is there an echo in here?

It's like there's a serial poster/stalker that can't stand their lovah-man getting rightfully disparaged.

Rightfully disparaged by some guy on a message board doesn't count. Do you think Melo is a much better player this year than he's been for his career or do you just have a hate towards Melo that won't change no matter how his game is these days?? I obvously get that he had a bad game last night and he really hasn't been himself at all this year cause he usually has a much better 3 ball but if we end up trading Melo in the off season then you better be ready for it to take at least 5/6 years until a team is put together that anyone will even talk about for a deep playoff run and with Melo we can be ready for a deep playoff run in two years if we can get one significant player to come play for us this off season and one significant player the following off season and then good pieces around them.

Whoa. That read like one continuous run on sentence.

I'd rather do the 5-6 year sustainable route ala Golden State. We will not compete for a Championship with a 33 or 34 year old ready to retire Melo.

Well that's your opinion and only yours and just so you know......you don't just get that chance to draft players like S.Curry, K.Thompson and D.Green just because you have draft picks so you don't just say we can build a team like the GSW cause it just doesn't happen.

You are correct, it takes luck and patience.

But there way is the right model to follow. Once San An got Duncan, they built around him and replenished and sustained. Both GS and San An added and amassed pieces through the draft or overseas. You keep drafting and drafting until you hit. Once you use this successful model, you can splurge add an Aldridge or Iguodala and convince a David West to leave 12m on the table for a 1.4m vet min salary.

It takes years to get right, so why not follow what Championship teams do?

There is not just 1 model to follow. Once SA got Duncan they did not trade away DRobinson in the same way you are suggesting to trade away Melo.

Right now the Knicks are in a different position than those teams and need to follow their own path. They don't have a draft pick this year but do have cap space and holes to fill.

ChuckBuck wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:
Why didn't he go to Chicago then? Rose, Butler, Melo, Gasol, and Noah.

Tell me why, Martin? Answer's staring all of you in the face.

People continue to oversell Rose. After dealing with Amare pretty sure there was zero interest in playing with another walking injury. In a slightly related story, Rose simply decided not to play last night. No association with an actual injury. Why would Melo or anybody for that mattereason want to join that?

Because Rose wouldn't have to be 2011 MVP Rose. It's Jimmy Buckets team anyways.

No it wasn't. You're taking real liberties here with series of events. Jimmy took a MASSIVE step last year to make it his team. He improved all aspects of his game. There was no assurance he would put in the effort and it would work. In addition, Gasol wasn't under contract that the time. It was Rose and Noah's team. While I agree it was an intriguing option for him, going to a team reliant on Rose isn't too attractive. I would like to hope we could agree on that.

Out of curiosity, if Melo bolted and we were left holding the bag, what would be the upside for the Knicks in your opinion?

Picks, role players, and no longterm financial albatross contract commitment.

True rebuild around KP, not this fake competing shyt we're doing now.

How? We get nothing if he leaves in FA. This isn't the MLB, we aren't getting a compensation pick. Also, when the cap goes up again this year, we may need to drop the cap thing. It isn't preventing us from doing anything.

KP is benefiting from not having to shoulder the load. Our fanbase isn't exactly the friendliest bunch. This is a better course for him as a player.

I'm talking about the 2016 off season fireside chat about life he'll have with the Zenmaster, not the past.

You were talking about going to Chicago. If you wanted a trade this break, I understand that, but you were complaining about him re-signing in 2014 hurting the team, which isn't true at all. If he doesn't resign, we get nothing!

That would be perfect. A true rebuild with no expectations. Grant would get actual playing time. Fisher would probably still be humping wives here lol.

A true rebuild with no 2016 pick makes no sense. We still managed to get a future franchise player in KP with Melo here and are in a position to recoup assets when Melo does waive his NTC. Not sure how this isn't a best case scenario, all things considered.

Thing could be worst, I agree. KP made sure of that.

That all said, why the phuck are we still playing Calderon and Vujacic? Are we still trying to make the playoffs or are we trying to develop young talent? Those guys shouldn't be let out of their caskets in a true rebuild.

Today we're officially eliminated from the playoffs (phuck mathematically eliminated, we were realistically eliminated the moment Melo stepped on a ref's foot and Fisher phucked all the wives). Why are we still playing old guys? Rest Melo for the rest of the season, if he's still part of the plan. Stretch Calderon. Waive Sasha.

This end of season makes no sense.

That I can agree with. I think that the Knicks are just showcasing the older guys, in order to build a market for them. In a league where teams have two starting caliber PG's, someone underperforming like Calderon could be difficult to move unless we show he can still play.

martin wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Dam is there an echo in here?

It's like there's a serial poster/stalker that can't stand their lovah-man getting rightfully disparaged.

Rightfully disparaged by some guy on a message board doesn't count. Do you think Melo is a much better player this year than he's been for his career or do you just have a hate towards Melo that won't change no matter how his game is these days?? I obvously get that he had a bad game last night and he really hasn't been himself at all this year cause he usually has a much better 3 ball but if we end up trading Melo in the off season then you better be ready for it to take at least 5/6 years until a team is put together that anyone will even talk about for a deep playoff run and with Melo we can be ready for a deep playoff run in two years if we can get one significant player to come play for us this off season and one significant player the following off season and then good pieces around them.

Whoa. That read like one continuous run on sentence.

I'd rather do the 5-6 year sustainable route ala Golden State. We will not compete for a Championship with a 33 or 34 year old ready to retire Melo.

Well that's your opinion and only yours and just so you know......you don't just get that chance to draft players like S.Curry, K.Thompson and D.Green just because you have draft picks so you don't just say we can build a team like the GSW cause it just doesn't happen.

You are correct, it takes luck and patience.

But there way is the right model to follow. Once San An got Duncan, they built around him and replenished and sustained. Both GS and San An added and amassed pieces through the draft or overseas. You keep drafting and drafting until you hit. Once you use this successful model, you can splurge add an Aldridge or Iguodala and convince a David West to leave 12m on the table for a 1.4m vet min salary.

It takes years to get right, so why not follow what Championship teams do?

There is not just 1 model to follow. Once SA got Duncan they did not trade away DRobinson in the same way you are suggesting to trade away Melo.

Right now the Knicks are in a different position than those teams and need to follow their own path. They don't have a draft pick this year but do have cap space and holes to fill.

I agree that there's multiple ways to skin a cat. It could be Golden State's way, it could be San Antonio's way. Hell it could be the Boston Celtics(2008 edition) or Miami Heat way, if the stars align (literally).

But I think most sports people would shine a light on the way San An and Golden State did it, because it was organic, and it was home grown.

They nurtured Curry and Thompson. Got a diamond in the rough in Draymond. Got a promising wing in Barnes. Got hungry vets like Iguodala, Barbosa, and Livingston.

Similar thing happened with SA. Drafted Duncan. Had David Robinson who swallowed his pride and became a role player the last couple of years of his career. Drafted Parker, drafted Ginobili in the 2nd round. Seemingly drafted and stashed every decent Euro big in history. Drafted an absolute gem in Leonard. All the while they kept that core of Duncan, Ginobili, and Parker forever it seems.

I want the Knicks to be like the Warriors and Spurs. I don't know that Melo will accept the "David Robinson" role player role to Kristaps "Duncan". I do know that the Knicks have some cap space and their first rounders in 2017 and 2018, so there's hope to copy a Golden State 5 year plan. I'm hoping Melo comes to his senses and Phil can parlay him into future Draymond's and Parker's for KP's future franchise cornerstone.

That's my dream scenario...

ChuckBuck wrote:

martin wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Dam is there an echo in here?

It's like there's a serial poster/stalker that can't stand their lovah-man getting rightfully disparaged.

Rightfully disparaged by some guy on a message board doesn't count. Do you think Melo is a much better player this year than he's been for his career or do you just have a hate towards Melo that won't change no matter how his game is these days?? I obvously get that he had a bad game last night and he really hasn't been himself at all this year cause he usually has a much better 3 ball but if we end up trading Melo in the off season then you better be ready for it to take at least 5/6 years until a team is put together that anyone will even talk about for a deep playoff run and with Melo we can be ready for a deep playoff run in two years if we can get one significant player to come play for us this off season and one significant player the following off season and then good pieces around them.

Whoa. That read like one continuous run on sentence.

I'd rather do the 5-6 year sustainable route ala Golden State. We will not compete for a Championship with a 33 or 34 year old ready to retire Melo.

Well that's your opinion and only yours and just so you know......you don't just get that chance to draft players like S.Curry, K.Thompson and D.Green just because you have draft picks so you don't just say we can build a team like the GSW cause it just doesn't happen.

You are correct, it takes luck and patience.

But there way is the right model to follow. Once San An got Duncan, they built around him and replenished and sustained. Both GS and San An added and amassed pieces through the draft or overseas. You keep drafting and drafting until you hit. Once you use this successful model, you can splurge add an Aldridge or Iguodala and convince a David West to leave 12m on the table for a 1.4m vet min salary.

It takes years to get right, so why not follow what Championship teams do?

There is not just 1 model to follow. Once SA got Duncan they did not trade away DRobinson in the same way you are suggesting to trade away Melo.

Right now the Knicks are in a different position than those teams and need to follow their own path. They don't have a draft pick this year but do have cap space and holes to fill.

I agree that there's multiple ways to skin a cat. It could be Golden State's way, it could be San Antonio's way. Hell it could be the Boston Celtics(2008 edition) or Miami Heat way, if the stars align (literally).

But I think most sports people would shine a light on the way San An and Golden State did it, because it was organic, and it was home grown.

They nurtured Curry and Thompson. Got a diamond in the rough in Draymond. Got a promising wing in Barnes. Got hungry vets like Iguodala, Barbosa, and Livingston.

Similar thing happened with SA. Drafted Duncan. Had David Robinson who swallowed his pride and became a role player the last couple of years of his career. Drafted Parker, drafted Ginobili in the 2nd round. Seemingly drafted and stashed every decent Euro big in history. Drafted an absolute gem in Leonard. All the while they kept that core of Duncan, Ginobili, and Parker forever it seems.

I want the Knicks to be like the Warriors and Spurs. I don't know that Melo will accept the "David Robinson" role player role to Kristaps "Duncan". I do know that the Knicks have some cap space and their first rounders in 2017 and 2018, so there's hope to copy a Golden State 5 year plan. I'm hoping Melo comes to his senses and Phil can parlay him into future Draymond's and Parker's for KP's future franchise cornerstone.

That's my dream scenario...

Wait, you must have hated that the Spurs didn't immediately trade away DRobinson cause it didn't follow your "organic" plan, whatever that means? Your plan only includes players orginally drafted by team? Is that your meaning?

You don't think the Knicks can't nurture KP, Willy, Gallo, Grant while having Melo, and some other signee's?

I don't get it. Is Melo not "hungry" enough for you? So hungry he wants it known that he both won't chase money elsewhere, won't follow LeBron mode of staying homegrown in his own Miami beach palace and won't deactivate NTC?

Seems to me you have 1 answer for everything, Melo NEEDS to be traded away for picks. That's your only thing. Which is nice and all but not the only way to go about business, and right now, not realistically gonna happen.