CrushAlot wrote:

Panos wrote:

Chandler wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Jim Dolan has done the same thing with Carmelo as he did with isiah. He made a terrible trade that hamstrung the team twice once with the original and second with bargain. Now his idiot move to give a ntc has stuck is in the mid with him He could've left for clev and we would've had multi assets to improve which is what we needed to do. So were stuck with him and will be forced. By him to over pay for a pro pg either through free agency or trade and it still Wong be near enough

Another dumb Briggs thread. You've been making a bunch of threads lately and a lot of them are about the same thing or player that you've already made threads about so it's hard to keep up.

No you dont give someone a no trade clause. Worse is the Knicks OBVIOUSLY with a shadow of a doubt want to move on from Melo and they are giving him playing next to LBJ and he refuses. Almost EVERY Knick fan wants that deal--but its held up by Senorita Melo and his selfish ways.

I disagree. Lots of players have NTC and if they're good enough I don't begrudge them for it. What if we were trying to trade him to Philly for all sorts of picks. The players and their agents are smart

At a minimum it gives them a trade kicker, e.g., yes I'll agree to trade but want a new, longer deal. More likely it protects them from Philly and the like

And you're ignoring that Melo, while the deal was sweet, actually took less money. Phil offered a max and Melo left on the table more money than many people make in a lifetime. On top of that, while playing with LBJ would be sweet for him, he was public that he wants to win here. How can you not respect the guy for that

I don't know if it's possible in the NBA, the way it is in football, but what would be really sweet is if we could renegotiate Melo to take less than max the way Dirk did in Dallas or Brady did with Pats.

Think how happy everyone would be then

Wrong. 6 players have NTCs.
Carmelo Anthony, Kobe Bryant, Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Dirk Nowitzki and Dwyane Wade.
Only one player on that list has not won MULTIPLE NBA Championships, OR both a NBA Championship AND an NBA MVP.

Regardless of whether Melo should be traded or not at this particular moment,
I have to agree with Briggs that the Knicks should not have agreed to the NTC.
As a sports franchise, you need flexibility in changing your personnel when opportunities arise.
The Knicks have suffered being stuck with bad contracts so many times in the last decade or two. Why tie yourself to
one player for 5 years without even the possibility of moving him if you need to and you find a willing partner?
Want to give a NTC for 2 years, sure, but 5? I wouldn't have done it. No way. I said it then and I still believe it now.
If it was a deal breaker, (which I doubt, I would have called his bluff), then I would have
let him walk and rebuilt another way. The life of a Knicks fan has constantly been looking off to the future just waiting
for albatross contracts to expire. I don't think Melo is an albatross just yet, but I don't have faith in those knees, and
I'd bet money, I'll be using that word before this contract is up.

Knicks never learn their lessons. Just like with giving away unprotected picks. Stop the madness.

Bryant, Duncan and Wade have all won multiple championships.

Let me rephrase.
3 of the 6 have won multiple championships. As you say: Bryant, Duncan and Wade
5 have won at least one championship and an MVP.
And only 1 has no MVP and no championship. In fact, not even an NBA finals appearance.

franco12 wrote:the issue with Melo's contract is this

who wants to bet me a $100 that he plays 90% of the games during his five year contract, and that his production is anywhere close to his career averages?

I will bet you that he will out play the replacement that you suggest is availanle. Problem with people is that they put things down often but don't have any solutions themaelves. Most on the board against Melo signing hang their hats on simplistic "What ifs" and "Should have" scenerios. Most who have this retrospective argument style, are ussually full of nothing.

Bonn1997 wrote:Yeah, this was another case of bidding against ourselves. Giving him $30 mil more than any other team wasn't enough?! We had to include the NTC too. Jeez.

Exactly. Par for the course with this owner and team

meloshouldgo wrote:

fishmike wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Vmart wrote:Melo is a liability all because of NTC. We cannot view him as an asset. His rate of depreciation is staggering with each passing year. The return rate of his service has diminished as a result of poor numbers and injury history which is starting to pile on. Even if the Knicks were to trade they would be luck to yield a top 5 pick. At best your looking at multiple mid to late round picks for him if he desires a change of scenery.

Melo has the Knicks basically held hostage. He knows he is no longer a top player and he knows the downside has started. Right now he doesn't even desire a championship or a run.

Agree with the first part he is a liability. But you can't trade liabilities unless you do a swap meaning you as acquire other liabilities. Or you can just write them off. We don't have any good options.

Mistake 1 - resigning Melo
MISTAKE 2 - NTC
Mistake 3 - Overpaying by anout 140%

Only the Knicks can make three mistake in one transaction. Huge fail on Dolan/ Phil

so when you remove the liability what is the Knicks record? And with the liability? Do you guys even think before you post? Are you Knick fans?

VMart can you quantify the bold statement? Melo's shot has been off, but this is his best year defensively, he's at his career high for rebounds and is above his career high in assists, oh.. and the team cant win without him on the floor. Kind of makes your liability statement look not so clever.

You guys are like grumpy monkeys. This shiny object isn't fun to play with anymore. You need a new shiny object.

A liability is something where you owe money. In this case we paid more than the perceived value around the league - so if we could get even fair market value for Melo we would still have to pay money to make up for the difference. That makes him a liability in the financial sense.

Player salaries are as good an approximation of their value as you can get. And if we had let the market(demand) dictate the price we would not have overpaid by 30MM.

His current value to the team W-L record is not relevant in deciding whether he is an asset our a liability.And there is no clear cut way to ascertain what that value is.

this is some of the worst posting i've ever seen on this site. the cavs would give up kevin love for melo. the clippers would give up blake griffin for melo. I guess those professional nba front offices don't know as much as you. you should email them your resume

as for the salary - from another thread - there is no way we're overpaying. Melo is a max player any way you slice it. and because of WHEN we gave him the max, we'll actually be getting him at a bargain for the next three seasons.

Melo's salary next season is $24M. The cap is $92M. Season after that the cap is at least $108M and max guys in the league will be making $35M+

Melo is a hall of fame player. He's a top 20 player in the league right now. He's well worth the money.

Watch some of the players that get signed this summer and tell me Melo is still overpaid.

You're saying a guy who had 33pt and 13rebs in his last game is breaking down... okay.

gunsnewing wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Melo is a liability, simple and plain. We won't come close to competing for a championship under his current contract, so why not move on for both parties? Each season that he's here hurts the team more than he helps. It's like buying a new car from the dealership, instant depreciation the moment you drive off the lot. No return on investment from Carmelo.

BUT BUT he's passing the ball the now! N# please, everyone knows the Knicks will never ever raise a banner while he's still here. The NTC and max contract is the worst move in recent history next to Amare and Allan Houston's contracts. They should've let him go to LA, Houston, or Chicago so they could've done a proper rebuild.

Hate half ass measures. Go full renovation/rebuild if you're going to do it. Got this fake "competitive" team that'll win 34 wins with a Batman(KP) and Alfred the Butler(Melo), not even Robin. If there was no NTC, at least we could've parlayed Melo into role players or picks to build around Porzingis. Now we're just stuck with him, and will be forced to play and pay him the next 3 years....

Phil/Dolan phucked up major with this move...

No this is like buying a 1994 Mercedes sedan with 180,000 miles for $90,000. The price of a brand new Mercedes

Then why did the Cavs want to give up Kevin Love for him? Why would the Clippers offer Blake Griffin in a heartbeat?

Chandler wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Jim Dolan has done the same thing with Carmelo as he did with isiah. He made a terrible trade that hamstrung the team twice once with the original and second with bargain. Now his idiot move to give a ntc has stuck is in the mid with him He could've left for clev and we would've had multi assets to improve which is what we needed to do. So were stuck with him and will be forced. By him to over pay for a pro pg either through free agency or trade and it still Wong be near enough

Another dumb Briggs thread. You've been making a bunch of threads lately and a lot of them are about the same thing or player that you've already made threads about so it's hard to keep up.

No you dont give someone a no trade clause. Worse is the Knicks OBVIOUSLY with a shadow of a doubt want to move on from Melo and they are giving him playing next to LBJ and he refuses. Almost EVERY Knick fan wants that deal--but its held up by Senorita Melo and his selfish ways.

I disagree. Lots of players have NTC and if they're good enough I don't begrudge them for it. What if we were trying to trade him to Philly for all sorts of picks. The players and their agents are smart

At a minimum it gives them a trade kicker, e.g., yes I'll agree to trade but want a new, longer deal. More likely it protects them from Philly and the like

And you're ignoring that Melo, while the deal was sweet, actually took less money. Phil offered a max and Melo left on the table more money than many people make in a lifetime. On top of that, while playing with LBJ would be sweet for him, he was public that he wants to win here. How can you not respect the guy for that

I don't know if it's possible in the NBA, the way it is in football, but what would be really sweet is if we could renegotiate Melo to take less than max the way Dirk did in Dallas or Brady did with Pats.

Think how happy everyone would be then

Melo took less money? I guess if you consider $24mil instead of $25mil taking less. Most of us were hoping that if he was resigned it would've been for $17-18mil per so that we could sign another quality player or have the extra money to offer a top free agent/difference maker or trade a more reasonable contract.

The best thing to do was just let him walk and accelerate the rebuilding process. Luckily it was accelerated last season because Melo missed the year instead of playing and helping us with 30 games and missing out on KP. No one expected Melo and his agent to hold us hostage by including the NTC on top of max everything.

Ain't this Phil's show now? Are we just mad at Dolan for signing checks?

gunsnewing wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Melo is a liability, simple and plain. We won't come close to competing for a championship under his current contract, so why not move on for both parties? Each season that he's here hurts the team more than he helps. It's like buying a new car from the dealership, instant depreciation the moment you drive off the lot. No return on investment from Carmelo.

BUT BUT he's passing the ball the now! N# please, everyone knows the Knicks will never ever raise a banner while he's still here. The NTC and max contract is the worst move in recent history next to Amare and Allan Houston's contracts. They should've let him go to LA, Houston, or Chicago so they could've done a proper rebuild.

Hate half ass measures. Go full renovation/rebuild if you're going to do it. Got this fake "competitive" team that'll win 34 wins with a Batman(KP) and Alfred the Butler(Melo), not even Robin. If there was no NTC, at least we could've parlayed Melo into role players or picks to build around Porzingis. Now we're just stuck with him, and will be forced to play and pay him the next 3 years....

Phil/Dolan phucked up major with this move...

No this is like buying a 1994 Mercedes sedan with 180,000 miles for $90,000. The price of a brand new Mercedes

Then why did the Cavs want to give up Kevin Love for him? Why would the Clippers offer Blake Griffin in a heartbeat?

Because those teams are a lot closer to winning than the Knicks are. Come on you guys are better than that.

Clippers were offering Blake for Melo? That's news to me. I could've seen Cleveland wanting a broken Melo for 2 reasons 1)Love has been a disaster and 2) Cleveland is as dumb as the Knicks

The point is that Melo has value. You were implying he doesn't.

The guy who thought Melo would re-sign for $17-18M per should not be calling other folks dumb.

crzymdups wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Now watch as the Nets with Sean Marks build a competitive team starting with Zero assets while we are waiting for Melo's contract to come off the books in order to start a true rebuild

How did it work out last time the Knicks had enough cap room to sign two max guys and totally sucked? Maybe building around Melo and KP and having cap room each of the next two seasons will be a better way to do it?

Or maybe stop chasing players and draft and keep your own which is what I've been begging for the last 15yrs. I rather draft the next Durant/Westbrook or Curry/Green than chase stars who are past their prime.

I know you want Conley but is KP/Conley going to make you a contender if Melo is out of the lineup? Conley, Gasol & Randolph is not enough to get out of the west. Does adding Conley even guarantee we make the playoffs?

Build through the damn draft. I keep saying it. Show patience for 5yrs and build a team consisting of young guys who came into the league together. Then you add veterans and free agents. With flexibility you are operating from a level of strength and adding players becomes easier. Or keep mortaging all your assets and chasing the next Bargnani and other former stars on the decline. Further prolonging the effort to get build a perennial playoff countender. Keep spinning the wheels every 5, 10, 15yrs